Article: A Fresh Take on the Word of Wisdom

[oneClimbs]

Keeprunning, I have a challenge for you. I don't know if you read my article in its entirety - it is quite long with a lot of information. But for the sake of time, could you please review the quotes on my article under the section "Statements from general authorities of the church concerning eating meats" and then provide for me some quotes from modern prophets that can refute the words of those men and reveal that it is ok to eat meat daily, weekly or monthly and justify in any way the diets of most members of the church?

I have not been able to find any such statements and am curious as to what you have discovered in your own research that leads you to the conclusions that you have drawn. If you can help enlighten me on any new information that I have not yet come across, I would be happy to alter my article to correspond to correct principles and certainly credit you for your assistance; thanks in advance.

[keeprunning]

I'm talking about the faulty veg'n agenda. What do you mean by modern prophets? Since the time of JS? I already mentioned Widstoe's book. I've read his wife's cookbook as well, it is full of meats and eggs and dairy. The key to nutrition is variety. Also individuality. And age. Brigham Young said not to feed meat to little kids. I agree.
But it is not wise to be veg'n. Unless your body chemistry calls for it for a certain time. The fact is it is not black and white as far as meat goes. (Except avoiding pork and unclean meats except to save our lives-I've seen too many times how this messes up our body chemistry.)
I'm sorry, I have read and experienced and come across so many things over the years that it would take a while to get it all organized. I don't know if I can communicate well all the conclusions I've come to that are in my head. There is sooo much in the bible, and all scriptures. But if people are trying to get all these things to conclude to veg'ism it is hard to discuss.

[keeprunning]

Sorry again-it is hard to find more than a few minutes to post at a time, I can't focus here that well. But I meant to say I did read your full article, and went back when you added parts. I can go back and review which quotes you are talking about.

Okay, I went throught them all, and if it were me, I would just go back through them all and highlight different parts than you did. It would look from a different perspective. If you are eating a wide variety then you will see that you don't need much meat. But that doesn not mean you will be healthier without it completely. All those quotes talk about not killing animals unless you *need them for food*. I do recognise that you wrote the good disclaimer about not advocating a veg'n diet. Sparingly could just as well mean a little bit at lunch time most days as it could mean to eat it less often. That is the least of importance. It just all depends on so much.

[oneClimbs]

Thanks for reading the article in context. The definition of sparingly seems to hinge on the idea of frequency. Some think that if they eat meat sparingly throughout the day that they are doing right. When I read the revelations and see the conditions constantly set upon the eating of meat and the example set by prophets, I draw the conclusion that sparingly refers to year round and not just daily. The principle is based around respect for God's creations.

Note that God ordained herbs (vegetables) fruits and grains for the CONSTITUTION, NATURE and USE of man, but indicated that flesh was ordained only for the USE of man in times of excess of hunger.

God fully intends for us to eat animal flesh but only under the conditions that he has set forth. Thus strict vegetarianism or veganism is an evil doctrine. In the example of Joseph Smith and the squirrel, he taught that flesh should not go to waste either. If I am served flesh by a neighbor, I will try to be grateful for the life of that animal and consume it's flesh so that it's life will not have been in vain.

But I will not purchase or consume flesh on my own unless it is to save my life. I will keep the constitution and nature of my body set upon God's ordained bounty of herbs, fruits and grains as counseled in his revelations.

I personally feel that this outlook and perspective is nearest to the center mark and in no way extreme.

[bobhenstra]

Beef is nothing more than well processed salad! It's place is right next to the mixed salad with blu cheese dressing, mashed skin taters, corn starch based gravy and corn on the cob!

Bobby

Dang, now I'm hungry---

[keeprunning]

No I don't think you are being extreme. Let me just add a little more.

Okay, so it says flesh also of beasts [of the field] and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

And these [wild animals] hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

also

For, behold, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which cometh of the earth, is ordained for the use of man for food and for raiment, and that he might have in abundance.

Sparingly is meant as temperate. We should not eat meat to excess. We should eat how much our individual bodies need. That will mean different things for us all-and changes in different seasons and circumstances of our lives. But no gluttony. It even says that about fruit and herbs-eat with prudence.

As far as our modern church leaders, all of them that recognise that we can get by without much meat do not say that we should go without dairy and eggs. I'm not sure if they put fish in the flesh category or not, I have not seen much said about it since it isn't mentioned in the Word of Wisdom. But I do recall a few (including JS) that have said they think it is very healthy (fish with scales!). And some fish seasons are in the warm months of the year.

[oneClimbs]

In verses 12 and 13 before, we have no mention of wild animals but the verses still read with the same intent: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly; And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine." The flesh of beasts and fowls is mentioned without reference to wild animals and the Lord still says that they should only be used in times of winter, cold or famine and used "sparingly" which is the opposite of "abundant" and means "lacking, rare, scarce, sparse" and not "only for dinner" (I'm referencing the Webster's 1828 Dictionary which reveals the meanings of words closer to how the Prophet Joseph would have understood them). "Sparingly", is the opposite of "abundantly". Abundant (Plentiful; in great quantity) is at one end of the spectrum and sparing (Scarce; little) was on the other.

In verse 14 and 15 that you quoted we read: "the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth; And these hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger."

The Lord lists three groups of animals "beasts of the field, fowls of heaven and all wild animals", but you are saying by "these" he only meant the last in the list instead of the entire group? That's quite an assumption seeing as how he mentions previously that beasts of the field and fowls were only to be consumed sparingly or "rarely" and only in times of famine, etc. By "these" it appears clear that he was referencing all animal life. Then you have Genesis 9:11 "And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives;" So blood should NOT be shed, ONLY for meat, to SAVE your lives. Very clear.

If there is controversy over my interpretation and your interpretation, I would look to the words of the prophets and see which interpretation more closely aligns with theirs.

Spencer W. Kimball quoted Joseph F. Smith who said: "I do not believe any man should kill animals or birds unless he needs them for food". Now he didn't say anything about wild animals there. Elder Joseph F. Merrill, an apostle stated "Americans eat too much meat, a non-essential in human diet, because all the proteins needed are available in the other foods..." Joseph Fielding Smith did not eat meat according to his wife, Heber J. Grant RARELY ever ate meat, and besides, we spend so much time on the don'ts that we miss the MAIN point and this is that God ordained herbs, fruits and grains to make up the "constitution" and "nature" of man and that flesh is ordained only for his use in times of need. It could not be clearer.

"And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving. (D&C 89:10-11)"

As for milk, dairy and eggs, etc. The Word of Wisdom does not reference them directly, just like it is on sugar, chocolate and many other things we partake of. It is up to us then, to judge for ourselves how these items affect our constitution and nature, unless we receive further light and knowledge concerning these items. If I drank milk, it would have to be raw milk, and even then, I don't prefer a drink intended for infant animals. Cheese, or unnatural coagulated milk is also not very appealing. Yet if I did not have any of the items meant to make up the constitution of my body, I would partake of them. I would never forbid another from consuming that which he thought was just, I am only seeking to understand the word of the Lord for my own constitution and nature and sharing what I have found. We all must be stewards in our own right.

Have you come across any modern prophet, apostle or general authority that has said anything concerning the approval of eating of animal flesh on a regular, daily or weekly basis. I have not, and quite the opposite is the case, but I'm always open for new insight if you've got it!

[creator]

Sparingly is meant as temperate. We should not eat meat to excess. We should eat how much our individual bodies need. That will mean different things for us all-and changes in different seasons and circumstances of our lives. But no gluttony. It even says that about fruit and herbs-eat with prudence.

But then it says "And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used,..." now for the exceptions "...only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine" (I could also point out examples from Joseph Smith teaching the saints only to eat meat to save their lives)

The Word of Wisdom was given as counsel... later voted by the Saints to be made a 'commandment'... and then there's the "NO MEAT" clause that is "PLEASING"... it's not easy to make the transition, but I am inclined to want to please the Lord, rather than just comply with the bare-minimum.

[keeprunning]

I keep trying to explain but I'm not a communicator. You seem pretty set on some things , I don't know how well I can get across what I understand.

Yes, I really do believe that in vs. 15 'these' is referring to wild animals. He already talked about appropriate use of beasts and fowls. Plus it reiterates biblical teachings. However, I'm open to Widstoe's interpretation-which is that animals can be eaten as the ONLY source of food available. BUT, that if that time comes it is important to eat the whole animal to sustain life. All those internal organs!

You are right it IS clear- blood shall not be shed, except for meat, to save your lives. Do not shed blood unless it is for food. You are not going to find anywhere where it lays out for you exactly how many ounces and how often you should eat it.

Do you really believe that a person who WILL NOT touch animal food unless they are absolutely starving to death is keeping the word of wisdom better? So a person that does not eat to excess, eats a wide variety of ALL foods that are meant for human use, and they eat meat as it is appropriate for their bodies, is not keeping the WoW as well as the first?

I think the Lord is most pleased with temperance. (note that the footnote to sparingly leads to temperance)

Oh I thought I'd add this quote from John A Widstoe's book, not sure if you have it.

"Meat, fish, eggs, milk and cheese are foods rich in protein.....The proteins in these animal foods are easily and completely digested, and in most cases are valuable as healthful articles of diet. Milk, cheese and eggs are most valuable and should form the bulk of the protein requirement. To many persons these have the added advantage that they do not require the taking of life. However, diet experts agree that a certain amount of flesh food is beneficial, even necessary, in the normal diet, especially in severe, cold climates."

another good one-
"From these experiments, and many others that might be quoted, it may be held that men can live well on vegetable protein, alone, but that flesh foods need not be prohibited. An understanding moderation in diettetics of of first importance, and is the spirit of the messgae of the Word of Wisdom."

He goes on to talk about how even though meat is easily prepared and digested, eating too much or to excess will harm the body.

"Moreover, the heavy meat eater does not as a rule eat sufficient amounts of the other necessary foods. Milk and its products are seldom used and only a small supply of vegetables."

He is fine with people choosing vegetarianism, as EXCESS eating of meat does harm.

"It must be emphasized again that while there must be some protein in food every day, it may be other than meat protein. It is unwise to eat meat and economize in milk, cheese, and eggs. In summer, when the consumption of meat should be curtailed, great care should be exercised to secure protein from other sources."

"The Word of Wisdom does not contain a prohibition against meat eating, but urges its sparing use. Unfortunately, this advice is not generally observed, and man's health suffers in consequence. Many people eat too much meat; a few do not eat enough."

Isn't it funny how careful all his wording is? It all really depends on an individual's mineral and energy reserve, and how hard they work, and their climates. The main thing the Lord seems to be warning against are all the food fads and idleness that promote eating TOO MUCH meat (or not enough-as Widstoe points out!).

[oneClimbs]

Widstoe is speaking from the perspective of science and has a lot of great info, but this one source you have provided isn't speaking for the church in this regard. That said, he IS an apostle and his research, I think, is valid. Also, I agree that where people live and their circumstances should be taken into account as well. This is why, I believe, that as the church has grown, we haven't had any more specific counsel on the topic.

The Word of Wisdom counsels us concerning the constitution of our bodies, but the direction towards animals isn't just diet-based. The Lord desires that we not shed blood, only to save our lives, he appears to want us to be good stewards over animal life and to not shed blood for food if there is no need to. God will require the blood of every beast that we shed at our hands, do we consider the implications of this? In our American civilization where we have any food we desire at our disposal, I question our practices. I think we both agree that the vast majority of members of the church, eat WAY, WAAAY too much flesh and herein was the point that prompted the article.

Sure, there is a footnote pointing to temperance, but that is because "sparingly" is related to the word. Temperance means "habitual moderation in regard to the indulgence of the natural appetites and passions". I believe that another reason the Lord is so cautious with flesh is because of the addictive properties related to it, like casein, for example. You mention "excess", well what would be considered eating flesh in "excess"? Would eating meat in my sandwich every day be in "excess"? I certainly don't need to eat that sandwich, I have all of the other things God has ordained at my disposal.

The point that I was trying to make with my article is that the vast majority of us, do not practice the Word of Wisdom appropriately in reference to animal flesh. Lest anyone become extreme, I also included the section on vegetarianism and veganism. I think that the closest obedience to this law would be to form our constitution and nature according to what God has ordained while thankfully utilizing the flesh of animals when we have true need of them. I've looked at my own life and have concluded that with all the bounty and prosperity that surrounds me, I don't really have much need of animal flesh. Currently, the constitution of my body is made up of vegetables, fruits and grains, and I'm alive and well! But I'm not a vegetarian and I'm not a vegan.

[Moss Man]

Lunch meat and hot dogs are full of chemicals. Food animals, both for slaughter and dairy, are kept in absolutely inhumane conditions. Drugs are given to conventional animals which filter through the food chain. Had Joseph Smith been given a vision of fast food chains, steakhouses and animal factories (maybe he was) I'm sure he would've made the connection between meat and evil designing men.

It's profitable to push meat. How big is the fast food industry? Meat producers have their own trade organizations and lobbyists. Monsanto has to get its cut of the profits with its drugs and corn needing to be administered and fed to the animals that will be eaten. Think about how polluted the earth has become all because everyone has to eat meat at every meal every day.

Instead of feedlots and slaughterhouses we should have gardens and orchards.

Thoreau made a brilliant observation when he noticed how big and strong oxen were and yet they only ate plants (I'm paraphrasing). That observation has continued to stick with me.