LDS Freedom Forum

Anyone who MIGHT be interested in getting a small place of refuge at low cost (< about $40,ooo) , or even moving to, NW Missouri, please PM me... have some ideas (thanks to Darren and LC!)

Within 40 miles of Adam ondi, yet a good distance away from Kansas City (about 100 miles). Also, close to Iowa border, where I'm looking now... Again, pls consult the Lord regarding YOUR stewardship.

I had a PM that asked me the following question:

When last we visited the site (Adam-Ondi-Ahmen) I couldn't help but notice all of the bunkers there. Do you know what is there?

The bunkers you mentioned that have the doors that apparently go down under ground are from a project finished in the late 1990s to install culverts and distribution systems that hold and supply 500,000 gallons of potable water.

The Church has quietly installed an infrastructure of water, sewer, and power to accommodate a population of approximately 1,000,000 people who will be coming to Adam-Ondi-Ahmen for a special event that is planned to be held here.

Did you also notice these other infrastructure facilities? If you return to Adam-Ondi-Ahmen, and look around for them, you will see them blending into the land.

Just a funny item: when we first went to Adam-Ondi-Ahmen in 1996 I remember that at the west end of the Valley of Adam-Ondi-Ahmen on the hill that overlooks the valley there was a large pile of stones, many of the stones weighing 50 to 100 lbs or more, and in front of the pile of stones was a sign that read, : “Adam’s Alter.” Maybe some of you remember this.

Then I noticed about a year ago that I could no longer find this pile of stones or the sign. So I asked my friend that has so munch of the inside information about Adam-Ondi-Ahmen. He told me that the pile of stones and sign were maintained by one of the local workers there. That he would regularly bring in huge front loader loads of stones and drop them off at this sign. Then within just a few short weeks the stones would all disappear. Apparently these stones would all travel to Utah and other LDS hometowns as souvenirs from Adam-Ondi-Ahmen.

That pile of stones served as a souvenir gift shop of sorts. The practice has since been discontinued and the pile of stones and sign can no longer be found. Kind of makes you laugh at the mentality of LDS that visit Adam-Ondi-Ahmen. “Oh quick, Marsha, nobody is around, lets grab one of those stones from Adam’s Alter!” LOL.

God Bless,
Darren

Back to the original posted article....

It is interesting that the American Indians want to withdraw from their 'treaty'. I posted on another thread how the NZ police conducted 'terrorist raids' on an indigenous Maori tribe/town in NZ.

This tribe still retains it's independence from the crown as it never as a tribe, signed the 'treaty of Waitangi' ( An 'agreement' that was formed between the NZ govt and the majority of Maori Chiefs, but that has many issues with even the signed tribes as the crown has not kept their side of the bargain in many instances, mainly to do with intentional? misinterpretations, translations and meanings of words between the Maori and English Languages). But Instead of recognizing their claims, the Govt confiscates their land, forces democracy on them, labels them terrorists and raids the homes of families and activists associated and also not associated with the tribe.
And so trialling their 'Suppression of terrorism act' and desensitizing the public to further future acts( seemingly similar to the raids of American schools and lining up children like terrorists), to quell any voice of dissent and demonize those that are willing to stand for their rights and protect their culture and way of living.

To see the ridiculousness of these claims here is of all the videos the most unbiased:

http://tvnzondemand.co.nz/content/sunda ... video_skin

The similarities of situations of indigenous cultures around the world is very interesting, especially the point of will they be the defenders of freedom worldwide?

The point of the "Elders defending the Constitution" is so that we can kick the Feudalists out of power and reclaim and maintain the Free Enterprise System of our Lord that was supposed to bring so much benefit, blessing and the highest standards of living to the Natives of this land, that in living these high principles they would be happy to have us as their neighbors serving beside them on their land.

The tyranny of the feudalistic system is what the natives are so repulsed over, it’s evil trick to steal, kill and enslave the native populations.

The honesty and integrity of goodly people seeking the Lord through the Free Enterprise System of the Gospel and sharing that with the Natives has always been the purpose of the Northern European “Ephraimite” people in America (see the Five Thousand Year Leap by Cleon Skousen).

Defending the Constitution means quitting your feudalist job under feudalist bosses, and incorporating your will to be for at least part of Moses 1:39 (God’s work purpose statement).

The northern European culture most of us are from teaches us how to be good servants to our Native neighbors. If we instead are of the culture of Babylon then the natives have every right to remove from us the privilege of sharing and enjoying the benefits of their land.

Any of you get it?

I am for the Gospel, the Constitution and the Free Enterprise System. We need to be living it.

Work together by the Law.



Dr. Jones,

Just a thought, if there were enough interest families, perhaps we could identify a target town here and get a group of like minded individuals to buy into it. Albany, Missouri for example is a fantastic town, property prices are very low, many homes and businesses for sell, housing is as cheep as 20,000 for a livable place such as this 3 bedroom home: http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... sort=price look at http://www.albanymo.net/real_estate.htm for more, and business opportunities like this one: http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... sort=price

Land is about $2,000/acre.

Albany has an LDS Branch Building that has been recently enlarged and remodeled. I have friends who attend the Albany Branch and they just love it there.

Maryville Missouri is where I live, it is about 45 minutes west of Albany and would also be a great place to get things together. The 45 miles between Maryville and Albany is some of the most affordable high quality farmland found anywhere. Maryville is much bigger than Albany as it has a major University. Albany and Maryville are close enough that we could include both of these towns as part of an overall plan for growth.

I mentioned these ideas to one of my friends at church yesterday, he owns several properties in town, he offered a 20,000 sq. ft. property just off main street as his part of his contribution to a business plan for us to share. He has been thinking of getting some people together and building a 12-plex on the property, it is right next to the University and has immediate income potential. He and I had also come up with some business ideas of using the 20,000 sq. ft. property for other things as well.

He also owns a vacant restaurant on Main Street, he has not come up with any plans for using this building yet, perhaps we could help him on this. This friend of mine owns several other businesses and farms in this area and could be a big help in putting together something.

If we are to build Zion, and us in the middle of it, this is the way to do it, work.

Darren

We seem to be on the same wavelength Dr. Jones. Funny that you posted:

Pleased to hear about the large number of saints moving to the Gallatin area... already! Adam Ondi is a beautiful valley, owned by the Church and being prepared I understand with water and 'sewer' to accomodate many. (Does anyone know how many?)

shortly after my PM to Darren about the same subject. Must be something stirring in the air.
--------------
How sad that members would loot an alter under the pretense that it was a consecration to the Lord! Kind of like walking up and helping yourself to a plate full of the burnt offering! Honey, nobody is looking, have you smelt this ram? Wow! Over the lips, past the gums, look out stomach here she comes!

Why not steal the cloth from the sacrament table from each ward you visit?

Darren wrote (thanks!):

Just a thought, if there were enough interest families, perhaps we could identify a target town here and get a group of like minded individuals to buy into it. Albany, Missouri for example is a fantastic town, property prices are very low, many homes and businesses for sell, housing is as cheep as 20,000 for a livable place such as this 3 bedroom home: http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... sort=price look at http://www.albanymo.net/real_estate.htm for more, and business opportunities like this one: http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... sort=price

Land is about $2,000/acre.

Albany has an LDS Branch Building that has been recently enlarged and remodeled. I have friends who attend the Albany Branch and they just love it there.

Maryville Missouri is where I live, it is about 45 minutes west of Albany and would also be a great place to get things together.

Yes, over the last few days, I have been looking at the inexpensive and very attractive real estate, mostly between Albany and Gallatin. Both have nice houses and land in the $19K to $60 K range. Amazing.

Your expression has been incubating in my spirit/mind for a while, well said:

Just a thought, if there were enough interest families, perhaps we could identify a target town here and get a group of like minded individuals to buy into it. Albany, Missouri for example is a fantastic town, property prices are very low, many homes and businesses for sell, housing

And I've grappled a bit with feelings of competition (for available housing) versus Zion-like cooperation... I'm working towards, hoping to promote also -- the Zion-like cooperation. If a group of like-minded saints would purchase "foot-holds" for refuge, or houses for actually moving to near-term,
we could then work together... Also, Albany is a branch and could probably use an influx.
Gallatin has already grown to a ward!

I hope others will take a look also...
Sampling of what's available --
Albany (rougly 90 miles from Kansas City, 35 from Adam ondi)
http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... type=homes

Gallatin (about 70 miles from KC, 5 from Adam ondi)
http://www.shomemorerealestate.com/Real ... ings.shtml

You guys sure know how to tempt someone! LOL

Having many to work with would be a benefit.

What we are looking at would be with one other person besides our family, but she has a ton of experience in cooperative living. She is not LDS but might as well be. LOL

However, my family keeps saying they are moving out here this year, specifically Springfield, so who knows. I very well may still be considering the right choice for us. (The lady has a few buildings for sell with lofts above and store front beneath and land to grow food behind them).

All your talk almost sways me into going north, rather then East. Except I know my father would want to shoot me if I was that far from Springfield.

LoveChrist wrote: All your talk almost sways me into going north, rather then East. Except I know my father would want to shoot me if I was that far from Springfield.

Which Father are you speaking of?
I am currently struggling with where my Father wants me to be.

This topic...though off topic, is very interesting. I hope no one is reading this thinking it is meant to persuade, but rather to inform and brainstorm. I may be wrong but this is how I have been reading it and I am enjoying the conversation (from the outside) very much.

It seems to me that there is a 'migration' accruing. I feel it every day. It is confusing to me but conversations like this seem to be clearing up why I stumbled across this site. Thank you.

LoveC:

You guys sure know how to tempt someone! LOL

Having many to work with would be a benefit.

What we are looking at would be with one other person besides our family, but she has a ton of experience in cooperative living. She is not LDS but might as well be.

Sounds like a great person! The key to not just enduring but GROWING and having JOY during the last days trials must be to have Charity and loving people around.

Now I want to check housing prices in Springfield, for comparison... kinda fun!

One other thought today... A friend who is 9/11 savvy (and a PhD at BYU) told me that several in his ward are now paying TWO mortgage payments. They wanted to move, couldn't sell the first house, so decided to RISK it. Not smart, he said, and I agree.

If the housing crunch continues like this, it will become difficult to MOVE from one house to another, unless the first house is given up for a very low price... This implies a loss of freedom to some extent. Add to that, high cost of petrol, and the loss of freedom to move may increase. (Add roving bands or riots, it gets worse... We would be wise to pray about where we should LIVE with our families in the upcoming years...)

Let me end on a happier note: The key to not just enduring but GROWING and having JOY during the last days trials must be to have Charity and loving family close by.

LOL My earthly father. Since he is moving this way this year. With my step-mom and 2 of my siblings.

My mother is thinking about it. She likes what I have found, but says it would be at least a year.

We have had a very busy night full of tornadoes, thunderstorms, flash floods and golf ball sized hail.

The lightning has been amazing!

Oddly, I have felt totally at peace and that everything will be ok.

Outside Springfield you will find better deals, but the auctions that are happening make things pretty affordable.

I feel bad for those that have two mortgages. We already know that we will lose our home, will need to just return it or something, and work on dealing with the consequences.

We have done all we can, but D&C section 104 is helping me right now. Since I have done those things and I am willing to pay them, that the Lord will deliver us.

("Lose your home"? where is it located, LC?)

Springfield Missouri

We have an ARM and cannot refinance it, and the church has helped us cover what we couldn't for over a year, and so we are just going to cut our expenses. We live very frugally other then the house and our car mistake.

And we have medical debt.

So, we are in a corner now.

Hmmm... You know about the just-passed law that you can continue your loan (at least for a time) at the same rate, that is, the ARM becomes fixed-rate? I've heard about it, don't know much about it though...

(Is it possible to sell your present house and move to a less expensive one?... e.g., the prices in Albany or incredible; just thinking here, you don't need to answer...)

$19,900 in Albany:
http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... sort=price

The attorney for the medical bills has attached a lien to the house. It is not worth as much as that amount totals.

Even if it went to a flat rate, it already exceeds what we can pay. The church has been paying $100 to $700 a month depending on what was going on. We can't do that anymore, not when we have not been able to find a solution. (My husbands income dropped by over $12,000 this last year)

My husband has looked for a second job for months to no avail.

Since I home school, it is not possible for me to do it.

So, that is the situation.

DrJones wrote:Hmmm... You know about the just-passed law that you can continue your loan (at least for a time) at the same rate, that is, the ARM becomes fixed-rate? I've heard about it, don't know much about it though...

(Is it possible to sell your present house and move to a less expensive one?... e.g., the prices in Albany or incredible; just thinking here, you don't need to answer...)

$19,900 in Albany:
http://www.homanrealty.com/realty/listi ... sort=price

Wish that this could be a consideration, but don't have $20,000 cash and that would mean my husband would be looking for a job on top of it all.

First off, the medical system in this country is WAY non-Zion-like at this time, often seeking profits instead of to help people... So sad that they use a lawyer to come after a person for medical "services." Not so in most 'advanced western' countries, or 3rd-world countries for that matter... It must be a weighty burden, LoveC, I'm sorry for that. Praying that may the Lord make your burdens and your husband's burdens light. Will see what we can do and suggest to end this line of the thread, unless you just want to vent. That's OK. There is hope ahead.

You are a good person, salt of the earth!

Well, thanks for that. I am always open to any other avenues, we have had many different routes tried over the last year....

So far, we are just being patient, and trying keep the faith.

There was another wave of tornadoes here, and there was extensive damage near my home. We are ok. I think it might finally be over, but there are buildings that are a complete loss and other areas without power.

Several cities have had a lot of damage. Republic schools are all closed today. I know of 2 people that have died. It is still dark, so we do not know the full extent.

There is damage one major street north of us and the next major street to the west of us, and to the east of us.

Anyway, there is a TON of places here right now that have flooding on top of it.

My mother is thinking about it. She likes what I have found, but says it would be at least a year.

We're talking. Either Springfield area or Adam-Ondi-Ahman (my preference). I would need to get a teaching job at a college.

1 year seems doable unless some urgent revelation and extraordinary means comes along. My big sister seems to support the idea, upon first discussion (her family is in tough straits also). My parents would freak out if we all moved away, but before they moved to Utah in 02, mom wanted to go to Jackson county, until she read about the cleansings.

I am very partial to these "Misty Mountains". Having giving up the ocean ("oh the Sea! The Sea!") for the peaks, I am hesitant to leave them for the twister-tortured, hot and humid plains.

Of course, many who seek inspiration will be directed to stay where they are, for what ever purpose the Lord has in store for them. That's kind of where I am at now. Your mom is more keen on leaving.

For my work I often drive from Maryville to Chillicothe, Missouri. When I do I like to stop at Adam-Ondi-Ahmen. Today I went there and took these pictures for you all to see.


http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg18 ... 4f3b9c.pbw

Included in the pictures is the remodeling of the Gallatin LDS Ward Building.

It was very lightly snowing at Adam-Ondi-Ahmen, there was nobody there except my wife and I. It was very calm, and I felt the spirit, like I always do when I visit this holy place.

We first went to the East End of the Valley. I snapped some good views and a pan view here.

Then we went to the West End of the Valley where you look out over the valley from Tower Hill.

The pictures of Tower Hill include a foundational stone that I believe is a marker or anchor block for a tower or podium where the future conference will be conducted from.

I also took a few pictures of the many infrastructure elements visible. The Church has put a huge investment of water, sewer, communications and power systems, to be there for that future conference.

Enjoy the pictures.
Darren

I enjoyed your slides, Darren. Thank you. My son was called back to Independence already -- for his mission! (grin)

(Several years ago.) My younger son and I went to get him, and we toured the area. The valley looks wonderful - and I can tell that you have to look to see the infrastructure.

Any idea when the Gallatin chapel work will be done?

We're talking. Either Springfield area or Adam-Ondi-Ahman (my preference). I would need to get a teaching job at a college.

May I recommend in my home town of Maryville, Northwest Missouri State University
http://www.nwmissouri.edu/hr/jobs/index.htm
In Lamoni Iowa, Graceland University (RLDS)
http://www.graceland.edu/show.cfm?durki=4640
In Trenton Missouri, North Central Missouri College
http://www.ncmc.cc.mo.us/about/jobs/default.htm

Of course, many who seek inspiration will be directed to stay where they are, for what ever purpose the Lord has in store for them. That's kind of where I am at now. Your mom is more keen on leaving.

I was told through personal revelation 10 years before moving to Missouri that I would be moving here. I was told for more than 9 years after that to stay in Salt Lake City. I had a work I had to do there. I worked with Cleon Skousen, and other major players from the original Freeman movement commissioned by President David O. McKay. I worked on a project to finish up some written history perspective begun by Presidents McKay and Kimball, something I had do for these great men. I also had to work on a perspective on how to live by constitutions and Law, when the Political systems are distroyed through the cleansing.

I don’t know when it will be right for others to return to Missouri and build up the New Jerusalem. But for me and my house we are here now, in preparation to do so.

I cannot tell you to move here, but the spirit can. Your calling to come here will come directly from the spirit. If later the Prophet makes those callings to those living in Utah, they will join us who have already come here because of the promptings of the spirit.

Seeking inspiration is most important. Being in the right place at the wrong time can be most tragic to your soul.

God Bless,
Darren

What is frustrating is to be in the situation that we are. Many of you know that I have long felt that I needed to consider Chillicothe and Gallatin. Our stake president asked us to wait over a year ago, that they needed us here longer.

Now we are not in a situation to choose a house because we are locked into this one. And our credit will start being hacked at on Feb. 1.

My thinking is that we will go ahead and do this Seymour situation. And that D&C 104 will be fulfilled for our family this way. (The Lord will provide a way for us to be delivered from our debt) Once we get this going in a profitable way, we will be able to pay things off, save and then move to something that is right, not just whatever we can find.

I know what is ahead of us is going to be hard. Really hard. I just hope that we are blessed abundantly, so that we will be able to go where we have felt we should. I just think that for whatever reason, there is a stop we have to make.

I want to be up there, but I have been told not yet. It makes me want to pull my hair out, but I will go where I am told to go.

Heir:

I think you should tell my mom to look into Gallatin more. Even though she is interested in where we are going. It would be closer to what you both need to be closer to, and the ward there is nice. It is about 3 miles from Adam-Ondi-Ahman, and is near a cool Amish community as well. You would be commuting still, but you would be in the middle of several options.

But, Maryville is closer (to colleges) if you did not want to commute.

After the cleansing, there will be a way made to move forward with Zion in Independence Missouri. I personally believe that the City of Enoch will return and help rebuild that place, as for now I just want to be were the Lord wants me, doing what he wants me to do. He wants me to be here now, he also wants me to put the message out there as I have been so doing. Perhaps, like myself, a few will feel inspired by that message to begin building Zion preemptively to the cleansing. My word is to come to Missouri if you feel called to do so and discover with us if you can be part of those others who feel they have been called here to do just that.

Many of the people I have met here feel similarly as I do about being here. We recognize the restrictions from working in the political systems here, in eventually reordering the structure here away from political control and into Zion, and working together by God’s Law, but important progress is now being made toward Zion. Building blocks are arriving daily as the migration continues.

There is a wacko here and there but overall the people moving here are just feeing the spirit, and are finding out, surprisingly, that they are being welcomed into the communities they are coming to.

The Brethren from HQ are not advising the saints here to be for or against the migration. The local leaders are happy with the growing numbers but not raising their voices about any particular issue.

I feel that while the ability is there, the Lord is blessing the migration of certain LDS to Missouri, when the financial collapse and a new world war begins we will be somewhat isolated here. I haven’t found anyone here that doesn’t believe in a period coming of isolation from Utah and the HQ of the Church. Utah will take a brunt of the cleansing, and will be occupied in dealing with it.

I was talking to our councilor in the Branch Presidency about 2 months ago. In a leadership meeting he attended recently in Kansas City, he reported to me that the visiting authority specifically mentioned that a reason for the Handbook of Instructions is for units of the Church that are cut off from the HQ of the Church, to have direction.

Being motivated by a broken governmental system I studied Political Science for several years at the University of Utah. Then realizing that politics cannot solve the problems it pretends to solve, politics being part of the false religion. I was then connected to the Freemen Institute Founders including Cleon Skousen. In working with these great men I have a perspective that is foundational in building up Zion. Zion is not possible today as we are all deceived culturally into participating in the false religion, that is controlling the minds of the people of the world including most people in the Church.

God Bless,
Darren

Well, it is possible once Babylon falls.

Which could be today! LOL

Ok not quite but sooner then later.

We are in the "darkest hour" as well as in the "brightest day"

back to this discussion.. for a min.

Just wondering if anyone else is seeing Russian Support for the Lakota nation as the potential for "breaking up the United States." That it is part of a broader plan to do this now that our nation's strength is being spent through warring in other nations?