Sin: Physical, Spiritual--What's the Connection?

[JohnnyL]

We are becoming more and more aware (outside the church and in) that many things affect our decisions and actions other than just our desires and free choices; ergo the church's change in stance on suicide and homosexuality over the more recent years.

Here's a short list:
1. drugs--both prescription and over-the-counter (such as SSRI and suicide)
2. minerals (check out http://www.crimetimes.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
3. EMF's
4. microorganisms (such as this thread: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =2&t=19487" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; )
5. hormones, chemicals (homosexuality, PMS, aggression)

So, is this the chicken or the egg?
In other words: Does the spiritual bring the change in the physical, or the physical the change in the spiritual?
Is it different for each case, perhaps?
Or is there even a necessary causal connection between them?

Does an incident open the path for the physical to influence the spiritual even more? (For example, getting drunk and passing out once allows an evil spirit to enter the body and the person desires alcohol like never before.)

Does a change in the spiritual cause a change in the physical?
Does a change in the physical cause a change in the spiritual?
Most importantly, is it because of, or related to, our CHOICE?

[braingrunt]

I'm more and more inclined to minimize the difference between the physical and spiritual. It is important to me, however, that the Lord make up for or forgive physical-spiritual wounds which are outside my control.

[Tsem]

Does a change in the spiritual cause a change in the physical?

I have crohn's disease, and I have noticed that when I am sinful, my crohns symptoms flare up. and when I am living wholesomely, the symptoms are much more stable.

Does a change in the physical cause a change in the spiritual?

When I'm eating healthy and exercising regularly I feel able to maintain an uplifted feeling

Most importantly, is it because of, or related to, our CHOICE?

Definitely related to choice. i feel like its a feedback loop.
When I make good choices I feel happy, and make more good choices, leading to more happiness.
when I make bad choices I feel sad, and feel like making more bad choices, leading to more sadness.

I think our temporal well being effects our spiritual well being, which is readily reflected in our attitude

I'd say that the spiritual definitely comes first tho, and the body follows after, propelling the spirit onward

[bbrown]

I haven't seen a change in the church's stance on those subjects.

I do remember reading a talk about 12 years ago (when our state was dealing with marriage legislation) where one of the twelve discussed homosexuality and compared it to all forms of sin in the sense that even if I have a weakness towards that (or towards alcohol, anger, etc) the decision to act upon it is stil my own.

One of the purposes of this earth life (and fasting, for example) is for our spiritual self to gain control over the "natural man." Whether weakness lies within our bodies or our spirit, the weakness still must be overcome.

Circustance does influence our choices; it does not take all choices away. Nor does limitation of choices due to circumstance remove consequences of sin.

CB

[Henmasher]

Physical sin is a manifestation of spiritual sin. There is no egg and chicken here. The choice is the sin and the physical manifestation is just that, a manifestation of a spiritual sin. All things are spiritual and never has temporal preceded the spiritual.

[JohnnyL]

Physical sin is a manifestation of spiritual sin. There is no egg and chicken here. The choice is the sin and the physical manifestation is just that, a manifestation of a spiritual sin. All things are spiritual and never has temporal preceded the spiritual.

What happens when it occurs before birth?
What happens when it occurs in a child under the age of 8?
What happens when Johnny gets fed twinkies endlessly by his parents, under protest, and then hurts someone?
Are these just examples of the sins of the parents being passed on to the children?

[JohnnyL]

Does a change in the spiritual cause a change in the physical?

I have crohn's disease, and I have noticed that when I am sinful, my crohns symptoms flare up. and when I am living wholesomely, the symptoms are much more stable.

Does a change in the physical cause a change in the spiritual?

When I'm eating healthy and exercising regularly I feel able to maintain an uplifted feeling

Most importantly, is it because of, or related to, our CHOICE?

Definitely related to choice. i feel like its a feedback loop.
When I make good choices I feel happy, and make more good choices, leading to more happiness.
when I make bad choices I feel sad, and feel like making more bad choices, leading to more sadness.

I think our temporal well being effects our spiritual well being, which is readily reflected in our attitude

I'd say that the spiritual definitely comes first tho, and the body follows after, propelling the spirit onward

Thanks for sharing your personal experiences.
Do you feel that Crohn's came because of a sin(s) you, or someone you were under in stewardship, committed?

[bbrown]

What happens when it occurs before birth?
What happens when it occurs in a child under the age of 8?
What happens when Johnny gets fed twinkies endlessly by his parents, under protest, and then hurts someone?
Are these just examples of the sins of the parents being passed on to the children?

A child does not commit sin before birth or age 8, so I don't get why you'd ask the questions you did or what you're trying to ask. I think you're mixing natural consequences and frailties with sin, here, and they can be related (there are natural consequences TO sin, yes) but are not mutually exclusive. Not all natural consequences are sinful, there are natural good consequences to righteous acts. And we know from the words of Christ Himself that physical limitations/disabilities are not a sign of sin on the part of the parents or the child. A trial can be more spiritual or physical in nature and our actions in reference to those trials have consequences.

Johnny being fed "twinkies endlessly [I've yet to see it "under protest"!] by his parents" having an influence on his behavior is NOT an excuse or even a cause for his behavior...you're excluding all agency as if the sugar and chemicals forced him to act. He still had a choice, even if the twinkies caused a weakness in that area for him.

The parents, in my personal opinion, in this situation might be held responsible for creating the weakness itself (Though remember it may be through ignorance--is the food industry responsibe? Government propaganda? "Evil and conspiring men"? I suggest "fault" is widespread in a sense.), but that does not mean they are responsible for how he acted in reference to that weakness. One cannot rationalize away sin because of weakness, only recognize weakness and seek through the Spirit and atonement, to overcome it. The Spirit is in control of the body UNLESS the spirit gives up its control TO the body.


CB