Genesis 6: 1-4. Need help explaining meaning to a JW.

[Bridgey]

Genesis 6:1 -4
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I have heard a few interpretations on what these scriptures mean by a number of members of the church ie. Aliens sleeping with earthlings, there were a pre-Adamic race on the earth at the time. I personally think it means that the covenant sons of God married outside of the church (there covenants). But then the Giant thing confuses me a little. Where did they come from? It also appears that the sons of God had plenty of power in that they took whichever of the women they chose. Could you imagine what would happen in YSA if all the YSA Men had that power, lol.

A Jehova Witness told me about the scripture. He said that it means that Angels of God of lesser glory (Telestial perhaps?) lusted after the daughters of Adam and Eve and took them to wife. So God had to wipe them out via the flood. Anyway any help you guys can give will be great. I'm open to anything though, because Joseph Smith did say something like that if he declared all that God had taught him, even his own apostles would declare him mad. But I find it difficult to believe God would allow Aliens or Fallen Resurrected Angels to intermix with our earth. God is a God of order.

[braingrunt]

"youngs literal translation" version:

1And it cometh to pass that mankind have begun to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters have been born to them,

2and sons of God see the daughters of men that they [are] fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.

3And Jehovah saith, `My Spirit doth not strive in man -- to the age; in their erring they [are] flesh:' and his days have been an hundred and twenty years.

4The fallen ones were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when sons of God come in unto daughters of men, and they have borne to them -- they [are] the heroes, who, from of old, [are] the men of name.

I like this version because it doesn't mention giants or angels like some versions do. Not that this version is very much different but it lets me (for now) play with the understanding that I'm most comfortable with. 1-that the Son's of God mentioned there are men who were in the church but married out of the church. Note that we have to be born again (born of god) in order to be a child of christ (who is not our literal father) and also note that christ is the god of the old testament. 2-They and their children are "fallen" from their righteousness, yet they became very clever,strong, famous people.

[Rand]

Try this, see if it helps,

A Strange Thing in the Land:
The Return of the Book of Enoch, Part 13
By Hugh Nibley
Professor Emeritus of Ancient Scripture
Brigham Young University



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Hugh Nibley, “A Strange Thing in the Land: The Return of the Book of Enoch, Part 13,” Ensign, Aug 1977, 64

The “Enoch” of the Dead Sea Scrolls

Just in time for the latest episode in this examination into the book of Enoch comes the long-awaited translation of the Dead Sea Scroll book of Enoch. (J. T. Milik and M. Black, eds., The Books of Enoch, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4, Oxford: Clarenden Press, 1976.) Father J. T. Milik, one of the first scholars on the scene when the scrolls were discovered, was assigned thirty-two fragments of the books of Enoch from Qumran Cave IV; and all scholars working on Enoch have eagerly waited during the last quarter century to see what new information would be added, what theories might be toppled, what hypotheses confirmed by these documents in Aramaic, the earliest of all known Enoch texts.

Here’s what they show:

These documents, dating from the third to the first centuries b.c., corroborate the other Enoch literature that we have. There was a real book of Enoch, which was once written in five parts. This seriously challenges those critics who have claimed for years that ancient sectaries threw everything into Enoch that they wanted to pass off as scripture.

It’s an added delight for Latter-day Saints to read that Professor Milik finds the Greek texts to be much superior to the Ethiopian texts—the Joseph Smith account in the Pearl of Great Price is closer to the Greek than to the Ethiopian. Latter-day Saints will also note with interest Professor Milik’s deduction that one text, the Gizeh text, was undoubtedly prepared to be buried with the deceased—a parallel with the usage intended for the Abraham text.

Furthermore, Professor Milik works with the fascinating hypothesis that Enoch had prepared an account of the creation and the law of God that naturally predates Moses’ account in Genesis and sees Genesis 6:1–4 [Gen. 6:1–4], long a puzzling passage to the biblical scholar, as a quotation from that earlier Enoch source. This is exactly what happens in the Joseph Smith source: Moses quotes Enoch on events shortly after the creation.

As we have already seen, the Enoch story runs into the oldest literature of the human race; and Professor Milik finds links with the mythological heroes of Sumer and Babylonia, with the astronomy of Egypt and Phoenicia, and the ideas about the earth of Mesopotamia. Even though Professor Milik does not seem to recognize the full importance of the “Enoch figure,” he provides some evidence that undercuts yet another scholarly supposition: that Enoch was invented out of the hopes and yearnings of Messianic Jews in the second century b.c.; in fact, however, these very people were shunning the Enoch material at that very time. Milik reviews some important texts that show the writers of the Aramaic text gradually losing their interest in Enoch material during the first century, then the Essenes turning away from it, the writers at Masada actually expunging the name of Enoch and putting Noah in its stead, while the Christians, on the other hand, treasured it highly and embellished it with so many astrological flourishes that they unintentionally undermined Enoch’s credibility for future generations.

In all of these ways, the Qumran IV Enoch fragments reinforce rather than reinterpret what we as Latter-day Saints already knew about Enoch. But these newly translated pieces add one genuinely new bit of information to our store—something that is probably the most objective test yet of Joseph Smith’s prophetic powers.

What always impressed me as the oddest detail of the Joseph Smith account of Enoch was the appearance out of the blue of the name of the only nonbiblical individual named in the whole book—Mahijah. (Moses 6:40.) Mahijah is the one who asks Enoch searching questions, and in answer is told about the place Mahujah, where Enoch began this particular phase of his mission. (Moses 7:2.) It was therefore with a distinct shock of recognition that, after having looked through all but the last of the Aramaic Enoch fragments without finding anything particularly new, and coming to those very last little fragments, I found the name Mahujah leaping out of the pages again and again. (Pp. 300, 302–5, 311, 314.) Could this be our Mahujah or Mahijah? As a matter of fact it could be either, not only because the semi-vowels w and y are written very much alike in the Aramaic script and are sometimes confused by scribes, but also because the name as written in 4QEn, MHWY, is the same as the MHWY-EL who appears in Gen. 4:18 as the grandfather of Enoch, transliterated in the King James Bible as Mehuja-el, which name also appears in the Greek Septuagint as Mai-el and in the Latin Vulgate as Mavia-el, showing that Mahujah and Mahijah were the same name.

So what? A coincidence—a giant or a Watcher called Mahujah or Mahijah. But far more than a coincidence when taken in its context. The only thing the Mahijah in the Book of Moses is remarkable for is his putting of bold direct questions to Enoch, thus giving the patriarch an opening for calling upon the people to repent, referring them to the book of remembrance, and telling them of the plan of salvation. And this is exactly the role, and the only role, that the Aramaic Mahujah plays in the story. The name is found in none of the other Enoch texts and neither is the story: it is peculiar to the version Joseph Smith gave us and the oldest known Enoch manuscripts. The following translation is from Milik and Black, lest the writer be charged with forcing the text.

Moses 6:39. When they heard him … fear came on all them that heard him.


4QEnGiantsb 1.20. [Thereupon] all the giants [and the nephilim] took fright


Moses 6:40. And there came a man unto him, whose name was Mahijah, and said to him: Tell us plainly who thou art and from whence thou comest?


and they summoned MHWY and he came to them. And the giants asked him and sent him to Enoch * * saying to him: “Go then * * and under pain of death you must * * * and listen to his voice; and tell him that he is to explain to you and to interpret the dreams**



6Q8 1.* * Ohya and he said to MHWY: “* * and (I?) do not tremble. Who showed you all (that), tell [us(?)]**” And MHWY said: “* *Baraq’el, my father, was with me.”


Moses 6:41. And he said to them: I came out from … the land of my fathers, a land of righteousness unto this day


4QEnGiantsc. [Ohyah, following MHWY’s report]: “* * … my accusers * * they dwell in [heaven]s, for they live in holy abodes … they are more powerful than I.


Moses 6:42. And … as I journeyed … by the sea east, I beheld a vision: and lo, the heavens I saw. …

Moses 7:2–3. As I was journeying … I … went up on the mount … I beheld the heavens open. …


4QEnGiantsb. [MHWY … rose up into the air] like the whirlwind, and he flew … and crossed Solitude, the great desert* * And he caught sight of Enoch, and he called to him and said to him: “An oracle * * *”


Moses 6:45. Enoch: We … cannot deny. … Moses 6:46. For a book of remembrance we have written among us, according to the pattern given by the finger of God … in our own language.


4QEnGiantsa 7.* *to you, MH[wy* *] the two tablets * * and the second has not been read up till now. 8. The boo[k of * * The copy of the second tablet of the Epistle * * written] by Enoch, the distinguished scribe’s own hand * * and the Holy One, to Shemihazah and all [his] com[panions].


Moses 6:47. And as Enoch spake forth the words of God, the people trembled, and could not stand in his presence.


4QEnGiantsa Frg. 4. * * Ohyah said to Hahyah, his brother * * * they prostrated themselves and began to weep before [Enoch(?)* *].


Moses 6:48. And he said to them … We are made partakers of misery and woe …

Moses 6:49. … carnal, sensual, and devilish, and are shut out from the presence of God.


4EnGiantsa Frg. 8. The longest fragment: The depravity and misery of the people described. Their petition is rejected: God has cast them out. All is “for the worst.”


Moses 6:52. If thou wilt turn unto me; … and repent … asking all things in his name, … it shall be given you.


(Closing line) And yet, loosen your bonds (of sin) which tie [you] up * * and begin to pray.


Moses 7:13. And … he [Enoch] led the people of God, and their enemies came to battle against them; and he spake the word of the Lord, and the earth trembled …


4QEnGiantsc. (Ohyah the enemy of Enoch): “… by the strength of my power, all flesh and I have made war with them … they live in holy abodes, and … they are more powerful than I.”


and the roar of the lions was heard out of the wilderness;

and all nations feared greatly.


[Thereupon* *] the roaring of the wild beasts came and the multitude of wild animals began to cry out * * And Ohyah spoke … “My dream has overwhelmed? [me] * * * and the s[leep] of my eyes [has fled] …


Moses 7:37. … these shall suffer. Moses 7:38. … these … shall perish in the floods, and behold, I will shut them up; a prison have I prepared for them.


4QEnGiantsa Frg.7. Then Ohyah [said] to Hahyah, his brother * * Then he (sc. God) punished … the [sons] of the Watchers, the giants, and all [their] beloved ones will not be spared * * * he has imprisoned us and you he has subdued (lit. TQAF, seized, confined).


Bearing in mind that the Aramaic fragments are few and very small and arranged in whatever order the editors think best, it is still possible to see that the themes of the Joseph Smith account emerge clearly amidst all the very obvious changes and vicissitudes that have occurred to the ancient texts.

The End

Add on this note from a yahoo answer site:
to say they that angels in Matt 22 are the same as the sons of God in Genesis 6 is a faulty conclusion

modern theory is that the nephelim are the offspring of mortal and fallen angel.
in taking these woman, they did NOT have a marriage covenant, it was fornication.

there is a possibility that they were not angels ! i have read one explanation WHY they were not angels.
the sons of God could also be a reference to all the children of Adam and EVE even As they took satanic covenants and therefore fell.

its not completely cut and pasted as to the true conclusion.

one thing is certain, the entire world had become corrupted in the Flesh because of the rebellion and disobedience to God. So God had to build a secondary plan of salvation to continue the genealogy of adam and eve through Noah.

although not completely cut and paste, here is a cut and paste Quote from hugh Nibley collective works:
http://cid-fff19b48ee821aa4.office.live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.…

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare. . . to them. . . mighty men. . . . men of renown.
179
"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth." (Genesis 6:2, 4-5.)
179

179 - p.180
While the sons of God have been identified with both angels and the Watchers, the Greek Enoch does not identify the Watchers with Satan's hosts who fell from heaven from the beginning--they are another crowd. It is the Joseph Smith Enoch which gives the most convincing solution: the beings who fell were not angels but men who had become sons of God. From the beginning, it tells us, mortal men could qualify as "sons of God," beginning with Adam. "Behold, thou (Adam] art one in me, a son of God; and thus may all men become my sons." (Moses 6:68; italics added.) How? By believing and entering the covenant. "Our father Adam taught these things, and many have believed, and become the sons of God." (Moses 7:1.) Thus when "Noah and his sons hearkened unto the Lord, and gave heed. . . they were called the sons of God." (Moses 8:13.) In short, the sons of God are those who accept and live by the law of God. When "the sons of men" (as Enoch calls them) broke their covenant, they still insisted on that exalted title: "Behold, we are the sons of God; have we not taken unto ourselves the daughters of men?" (Moses 8:21), even as "the sons of men," reversing the order, married the daughters of those "called the sons of God," thereby forfeiting their title, "for," said God to Noah, "they will not hearken to my voice." (Moses 8:15.) The situation was, then, that the sons of God, or their daughters who had been initiated into a spiritual order, departed from it and broke their vows, mingling with those who observed only a carnal law.
end quote

[gdemetz]

I have talked to the JW's many times,including a pastor who made a special visit to see me. Tell them that "fallen angels" don't and can't materialize themselves, otherwise it wouldn't be necessary for demons to possess bodies. All they would need to do would be just to materialize themselves! Tell them that that other saints were resurrected right after Christ as stated in Matthew 27:52, and even though their common version of the Bible is translated wrong, their watchtower translation from the Greek has it correct, incredible! Tell them that Christ was not resurrected as a "mighty spirit being" since spirits don't eat fish and honeycomb! This is the problem when a religion is started by a false prophet who doesn't even claim to be a prophet. There arises a lot of man made teachings that are full of holes!

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine"...but..."shall be turned unto fables."

[AGalagaChiasmus]

My experience in western New York on the mission with Jay-dubs, is you corner them when you insist that Jesus Christ is divine and has a physical body. (Although many Protestant churches don't believe the latter, either). It fun to watch them squirm when they try to explain Matt. 28:18. Jesus was "just a man" right?