LDS Freedom Forum

All of the life after death stories are a sham.

Just read the article.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... near-death

Lol, they report this as new findings, even though they have been using theseexplanations for years.

One little quibble with their findings is they explain the "travelling toward the light" as blood and oxygen starvation of the eye which causes tunnel vision.

Of course the only problem with that pat answer is that such an episode would cause the field of vision to shrink - hence it would appear that you were travelling away from the light, not towards it.

It's little discrepancies like that which illustrate the problem of going into a study with the answer that you want to find. So little of science even follows basic scientific principles it is shameful.

Original_Intent wrote:Lol, they report this as new findings, even though they have been using theseexplanations for years.

One little quibble with their findings is they explain the "travelling toward the light" as blood and oxygen starvation of the eye which causes tunnel vision.

Of course the only problem with that pat answer is that such an episode would cause the field of vision to shrink - hence it would appear that you were travelling away from the light, not towards it.

It's little discrepancies like that which illustrate the problem of going into a study with the answer that you want to find. So little of science even follows basic scientific principles it is shameful.

LOL....as well as being so tightly coupled to the political.....

Can't wait to meet them and tell them that they are starved of oxygen and I am not really there. Of course I hope to actually be doing missionary work on the other side. But it would be fun to mess with all of those who don't believe in life after death.

The most excellent, scholarly, albeit secular justification of the continuance of consciousness after death is in the book "Science and the Near Death Expierence" by Chris Carter.
# ISBN-10: 1594773564
# ISBN-13: 978-1594773563

I picked it up at the local library. The author never mentions God because in the secular view, belief in God is not a prerequisite for these experiences. It has rebuttals with examples for all the claims made in the SciAmerican article above.

There is no science in this article.

When you have seen beings from the "unseen world”, or astro-projected, you by nature believe in the spirit world. Some have sure knowledge of the spirit world, some have faith in it. Lynn Bryson, a LDS writer on "The Occult and Rock and Roll, Winning the Testimony War" said there are three types of people in terms of belief of life after life being a hoax:


1- Those who believe in God, Angels, the reality of a physical Devil, and demons, (the Devils spirit being followers); BELIEF BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN THEM, and they for sure believe in life after death as a reality, not some hoax. O:-) :ymdevil:

2- Next, are the people who believe in all these beings, just have never seen them, and believe in them in faith and the life to come out of faith.

3- The last group is the broadest, the people who deny these beings exist and say that life after death is a hoax.

But, many still doubt life after life until they get there. A good book to read on this is "Life after Life" of first-hand accounts of people who died prematurely, then returned to the operating table and saw life after life, but had a reason to return to mortal life,

http://lifeafterlife.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will keep my mouth shut as to the things I have seen, but I can testify of what I felt when I gave the prayer for my dad’s funeral. I felt the Lord in the chapel. I felt my dad, minerstering angels and witnesses testifying of life after death that day. I almost cried, LOL.It was a sweet spirit, a confidence, as if life after death was not a hoax, but a reality. Man can know for themselves.

Nan wrote:Can't wait to meet them and tell them that they are starved of oxygen and I am not really there. Of course I hope to actually be doing missionary work on the other side. But it would be fun to mess with all of those who don't believe in life after death.

LOL, Nan! I just love what you say here - it brought wonderful pictures to my mind!

I've experienced the whole "blood and oxygen starvation of the eye which causes tunnel vision," but like OI points out, that experience was a gradual blackening tunnel with the light getting smaller and smaller until I lost bodily control, lost consciousness, and was out cold -- black not light. I was revived within moments and, thus, did not have any NDE, though the doctors said I was lucky. Once my consciousness was regained and I rested in the ICU, I felt a sense of gratitude, peace, and great contentment with God's plan for me. This was euphoric, but it came as a direct answer to prayer -- not earlier. Anyhow, a true scientist can present data and possible explanations without mockig God.

Gadianton wrote:When you have seen beings from the "unseen world”, or astro-projected, you by nature believe in the spirit world. Some have sure knowledge of the spirit world, some have faith in it. Lynn Bryson, a LDS writer on "The Occult and Rock and Roll, Winning the Testimony War" said there are three types of people in terms of belief of life after life being a hoax:


1- Those who believe in God, Angels, the reality of a physical Devil, and demons, (the Devils spirit being followers); BELIEF BECAUSE THEY HAVE SEEN THEM, and they for sure believe in life after death as a reality, not some hoax. O:-) :ymdevil:

2- Next, are the people who believe in all these beings, just have never seen them, and believe in them in faith and the life to come out of faith.

3- The last group is the broadest, the people who deny these beings exist and say that life after death is a hoax.

But, many still doubt life after life until they get there. A good book to read on this is "Life after Life" of first-hand accounts of people who died prematurely, then returned to the operating table and saw life after life, but had a reason to return to mortal life,

http://lifeafterlife.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will keep my mouth shut as to the things I have seen, but I can testify of what I felt when I gave the prayer for my dad’s funeral. I felt the Lord in the chapel. I felt my dad, minerstering angels and witnesses testifying of life after death that day. I almost cried, LOL.It was a sweet spirit, a confidence, as if life after death was not a hoax, but a reality. Man can know for themselves.

Have you ever looked into remote viewing?

A decade or so back while in the gulf I came across a copy of David Morehouse's book Psychic Warrior and found it pretty interesting. In looking that one up (couldn't remember all the details) I came across Paul Smith's book Reading the Enemy's Mind : Inside Star Gate--America's Psychic Espionage Program...have to see if I can find it at the library.

Friend of mine that got yanked out of the Corps and ended up doing some black work in the late 50's and early 60's had some contacts into that line of work......fascinating stuff.

Jason, thanks for serving. I liked Silent Warrior, more occultic, less gosepl, but I have never read Psychic Warrior, but I open to any knowledge. Any book by a man, or a woman cannot make be disbelieve in the life to come, however. Uh Raw.

Nan wrote:Can't wait to meet them and tell them that they are starved of oxygen and I am not really there. Of course I hope to actually be doing missionary work on the other side. But it would be fun to mess with all of those who don't believe in life after death.

=))

Gadianton wrote:Jason, thanks for serving. I liked Silent Warrior, more occultic, less gosepl, but I have never read Psychic Warrior, but I open to any knowledge. Any book by a man, or a woman cannot make be disbelieve in the life to come, however. Uh Raw.

Thank you. It was a pretty debate with myself over whether to get out or not....Billy made the decision easy though after our little war games to cover for his exploits in Dec 1997/ Jan 1998.

Well Psychic Warrior is definitely interesting take on it.....David is BYU grad that claimed to have things open up after getting shot in the head. He ended up ex'd during the ordeal. Some major questions about him and who knows how close he hits the nail on the head.....or how far away. Seems the CIA snatched the research away after Stanford made some progress in the 70's.

Anyways reading your post reminded me of that.

That is sad they ex'd him in spite of his head injury. Well, I was Iraq, search and RESCUE and while repelling down a 12 story tower I landed on my back. I am not disabled, the VA said just 10%, but I am good. They said I can get out, or cross train. I was right at my 4 and I had just re-enlisted, so I took the severvence and ran, as an honorable discharge.

Gadianton wrote:That is sad they ex'd him in spite of his head injury. Well, I was Iraq, search and RESCUE and while repelling down a 12 story tower I landed on my back. I am not disabled, the VA said just 10%, but I am good. They said I can get out, or cross train. I was right at my 4 and I had just re-enlisted, so I took the severvence and ran, as an honorable discharge.

When I saw that you were in AZ I wondered if you were still in....glad to see you are a free man now.

I did several years in the reserves then went active. After 4 I was looking at re-enlistment bonus of almost $30k plus tax free as in the Gulf at the time....but opted to get out. Miss the guys but not the job! What had been moral high ground had been compromised over the years and everything they spouted off about in boot camp that I bought into....turned out to be a lie. The reality was a bunch of old men with multiple addictions facilitating each other in maintaining those addictions....not to mention being imperial storm troopers mostly intent on self destruction as well.

Lies and secret combos in the US gov? LOL Your new signature should be "The U.S. military-The reality was a bunch of old men with multiple addictions facilitating each other in maintaining those addictions....not to mention being imperial storm troopers mostly intent on self destruction as well." That was sexy as Hell! :ymapplause:

Gadianton wrote:Lies and secret combos in the US gov? LOL Your new signature should be "The U.S. military-The reality was a bunch of old men with multiple addictions facilitating each other in maintaining those addictions....not to mention being imperial storm troopers mostly intent on self destruction as well." That was sexy as Hell! :ymapplause:

LOL...reality isn't it?

I reckon I left out all the green wet behind the ears kids who come in looking for role models (leaving out the hard cold gangbangers, supremists, etc. that make up the other half) to get their foundations laid in the slum/strip/etc bars of Thailand, Okinawa, Korea, Japan, Philipines, Mexico, US, etc....the contests to see who can bring the nastiest internet porn to work.....who gets the most west pac widows at the E-club....who can puke horizontally for the greatest distance.....etc etc etc

I remember having a good discussion with Gunny on his career (thinking about my future in the process). He was a good guy and a good Marine. He'd been in 17 yrs with tour in security forces/embassy duty. He had also managed to stay married for 16 years and had a couple of kids...the oldest a 15 yr old boy that he brought to work with him off and on when possible. Good guy! Well he's up for 1st Sgt and we are headed for another 6 month pump overseas and the wife gives him an ultimatum that if he goes she'll divorce him. Well he goes overseas because he's a good Marine and does what he is told to do....and if he just sucks it up (not called "the suck" for nothing) for another couple of years he'll pick up 1st Sgt and then retire with good retirement. She divorces him and remarries in less than two months to guy she was working with at the FBI. He ends up running with, then dating, then marrying the flight surgeon who was knocked up by one of the pilots shortly prior. He never got 1st Sgt as he got shortly thereafter. That was one of the better stories!

I won't delve into the drunken sexual harassment wife cheating burned out wreck of a Vietnam vet who should have been 2nd in line for Sgt Maj of the Marine Corps....and all the crap that was tucked under the carpet to protect him.....as well as his sermons to the troops on their ability to handle their alcohol because a couple Lcpls ripped a door off the stall in the head.....all while he's wearing shades for a week because he got drunk so bad that he puked so hard that he blew both of his eyeballs out of their sockets making his eyes swollen black and blue (appearing like he went 20 rounds as a punching bag for Mike Tyson - in the old days before he started biting).....or seeing him pee his pants in the million dollar E-club at Misawa.....or keeping him from getting the crap kicked out of him by a 6'4" 280 lbs black air force pogue for dancing and fondling with the guy's girl on the dance floor....or finding him later crawling on all fours across the grass trying to find his way back to his dormitory room.....or that he always had a girl under each arm while in Thailand (and the STD problems following because he didn't take precautions - nor tell his wife about until after she had to deal with it).....etc etc etc

Of course today its dodging IEDs, friendly fire, sand more sand and even more sand, worse deployment schedules, and on and on......

Bro, you are a riot, add me! LOL Sorry Speedracer, for hijacking your thread, can we amend it to "Life After Military"? HaHa.

Jason wrote:

Gadianton wrote:Lies and secret combos in the US gov? LOL Your new signature should be "The U.S. military-The reality was a bunch of old men with multiple addictions facilitating each other in maintaining those addictions....not to mention being imperial storm troopers mostly intent on self destruction as well." That was sexy as Hell! :ymapplause:

LOL...reality isn't it?

I reckon I left out all the green wet behind the ears kids who come in looking for role models (leaving out the hard cold gangbangers, supremists, etc. that make up the other half) to get their foundations laid in the slum/strip/etc bars of Thailand, Okinawa, Korea, Japan, Philipines, Mexico, US, etc....the contests to see who can bring the nastiest internet porn to work.....who gets the most west pac widows at the E-club....who can puke horizontally for the greatest distance.....etc etc etc

I remember having a good discussion with Gunny on his career (thinking about my future in the process). He was a good guy and a good Marine. He'd been in 17 yrs with tour in security forces/embassy duty. He had also managed to stay married for 16 years and had a couple of kids...the oldest a 15 yr old boy that he brought to work with him off and on when possible. Good guy! Well he's up for 1st Sgt and we are headed for another 6 month pump overseas and the wife gives him an ultimatum that if he goes she'll divorce him. Well he goes overseas because he's a good Marine and does what he is told to do....and if he just sucks it up (not called "the suck" for nothing) for another couple of years he'll pick up 1st Sgt and then retire with good retirement. She divorces him and remarries in less than two months to guy she was working with at the FBI. He ends up running with, then dating, then marrying the flight surgeon who was knocked up by one of the pilots shortly prior. He never got 1st Sgt as he got shortly thereafter. That was one of the better stories!

I won't delve into the drunken sexual harassment wife cheating burned out wreck of a Vietnam vet who should have been 2nd in line for Sgt Maj of the Marine Corps....and all the crap that was tucked under the carpet to protect him.....as well as his sermons to the troops on their ability to handle their alcohol because a couple Lcpls ripped a door off the stall in the head.....all while he's wearing shades for a week because he got drunk so bad that he puked so hard that he blew both of his eyeballs out of their sockets making his eyes swollen black and blue (appearing like he went 20 rounds as a punching bag for Mike Tyson - in the old days before he started biting).....or seeing him pee his pants in the million dollar E-club at Misawa.....or keeping him from getting the crap kicked out of him by a 6'4" 280 lbs black air force pogue for dancing and fondling with the guy's girl on the dance floor....or finding him later crawling on all fours across the grass trying to find his way back to his dormitory room.....or that he always had a girl under each arm while in Thailand (and the STD problems following because he didn't take precautions - nor tell his wife about until after she had to deal with it).....etc etc etc

Of course today its dodging IEDs, friendly fire, sand more sand and even more sand, worse deployment schedules, and on and on......

Sad, very sad.... my dad wouldn't recognize any of this stuff from his time 1945-51... no wonder why he still worships the military....

HeirofNumenor wrote:

Jason wrote:

Gadianton wrote:Lies and secret combos in the US gov? LOL Your new signature should be "The U.S. military-The reality was a bunch of old men with multiple addictions facilitating each other in maintaining those addictions....not to mention being imperial storm troopers mostly intent on self destruction as well." That was sexy as Hell! :ymapplause:

LOL...reality isn't it?

I reckon I left out all the green wet behind the ears kids who come in looking for role models (leaving out the hard cold gangbangers, supremists, etc. that make up the other half) to get their foundations laid in the slum/strip/etc bars of Thailand, Okinawa, Korea, Japan, Philipines, Mexico, US, etc....the contests to see who can bring the nastiest internet porn to work.....who gets the most west pac widows at the E-club....who can puke horizontally for the greatest distance.....etc etc etc

I remember having a good discussion with Gunny on his career (thinking about my future in the process). He was a good guy and a good Marine. He'd been in 17 yrs with tour in security forces/embassy duty. He had also managed to stay married for 16 years and had a couple of kids...the oldest a 15 yr old boy that he brought to work with him off and on when possible. Good guy! Well he's up for 1st Sgt and we are headed for another 6 month pump overseas and the wife gives him an ultimatum that if he goes she'll divorce him. Well he goes overseas because he's a good Marine and does what he is told to do....and if he just sucks it up (not called "the suck" for nothing) for another couple of years he'll pick up 1st Sgt and then retire with good retirement. She divorces him and remarries in less than two months to guy she was working with at the FBI. He ends up running with, then dating, then marrying the flight surgeon who was knocked up by one of the pilots shortly prior. He never got 1st Sgt as he got shortly thereafter. That was one of the better stories!

I won't delve into the drunken sexual harassment wife cheating burned out wreck of a Vietnam vet who should have been 2nd in line for Sgt Maj of the Marine Corps....and all the crap that was tucked under the carpet to protect him.....as well as his sermons to the troops on their ability to handle their alcohol because a couple Lcpls ripped a door off the stall in the head.....all while he's wearing shades for a week because he got drunk so bad that he puked so hard that he blew both of his eyeballs out of their sockets making his eyes swollen black and blue (appearing like he went 20 rounds as a punching bag for Mike Tyson - in the old days before he started biting).....or seeing him pee his pants in the million dollar E-club at Misawa.....or keeping him from getting the crap kicked out of him by a 6'4" 280 lbs black air force pogue for dancing and fondling with the guy's girl on the dance floor....or finding him later crawling on all fours across the grass trying to find his way back to his dormitory room.....or that he always had a girl under each arm while in Thailand (and the STD problems following because he didn't take precautions - nor tell his wife about until after she had to deal with it).....etc etc etc

Of course today its dodging IEDs, friendly fire, sand more sand and even more sand, worse deployment schedules, and on and on......

Sad, very sad.... my dad wouldn't recognize any of this stuff from his time 1945-51... no wonder why he still worships the military....

Yeah its changed.....and the reality is I'm pretty distanced from it now as I've been out for over a decade and haven't seen all the crap in Iraq/Afghanistan/etc. Couple of psycho buddies that stayed in and have....but I've only gotten bits and pieces from them on it. Most got out and went on with their lives....a few working for the MIC.

Gadianton wrote:Bro, you are a riot, add me! LOL Sorry Speedracer, for hijacking your thread, can we amend it to "Life After Military"? HaHa.

Yeah sorry Speedracer!

Yeah reckon you have plenty of your own stories!

Ya, but what are forums for? We are just having our fun.

HeirofNumenor wrote:

Jason wrote:

Gadianton wrote:Lies and secret combos in the US gov? LOL Your new signature should be "The U.S. military-The reality was a bunch of old men with multiple addictions facilitating each other in maintaining those addictions....not to mention being imperial storm troopers mostly intent on self destruction as well." That was sexy as Hell! :ymapplause:

LOL...reality isn't it?

I reckon I left out all the green wet behind the ears kids who come in looking for role models (leaving out the hard cold gangbangers, supremists, etc. that make up the other half) to get their foundations laid in the slum/strip/etc bars of Thailand, Okinawa, Korea, Japan, Philipines, Mexico, US, etc....the contests to see who can bring the nastiest internet porn to work.....who gets the most west pac widows at the E-club....who can puke horizontally for the greatest distance.....etc etc etc

I remember having a good discussion with Gunny on his career (thinking about my future in the process). He was a good guy and a good Marine. He'd been in 17 yrs with tour in security forces/embassy duty. He had also managed to stay married for 16 years and had a couple of kids...the oldest a 15 yr old boy that he brought to work with him off and on when possible. Good guy! Well he's up for 1st Sgt and we are headed for another 6 month pump overseas and the wife gives him an ultimatum that if he goes she'll divorce him. Well he goes overseas because he's a good Marine and does what he is told to do....and if he just sucks it up (not called "the suck" for nothing) for another couple of years he'll pick up 1st Sgt and then retire with good retirement. She divorces him and remarries in less than two months to guy she was working with at the FBI. He ends up running with, then dating, then marrying the flight surgeon who was knocked up by one of the pilots shortly prior. He never got 1st Sgt as he got shortly thereafter. That was one of the better stories!

I won't delve into the drunken sexual harassment wife cheating burned out wreck of a Vietnam vet who should have been 2nd in line for Sgt Maj of the Marine Corps....and all the crap that was tucked under the carpet to protect him.....as well as his sermons to the troops on their ability to handle their alcohol because a couple Lcpls ripped a door off the stall in the head.....all while he's wearing shades for a week because he got drunk so bad that he puked so hard that he blew both of his eyeballs out of their sockets making his eyes swollen black and blue (appearing like he went 20 rounds as a punching bag for Mike Tyson - in the old days before he started biting).....or seeing him pee his pants in the million dollar E-club at Misawa.....or keeping him from getting the crap kicked out of him by a 6'4" 280 lbs black air force pogue for dancing and fondling with the guy's girl on the dance floor....or finding him later crawling on all fours across the grass trying to find his way back to his dormitory room.....or that he always had a girl under each arm while in Thailand (and the STD problems following because he didn't take precautions - nor tell his wife about until after she had to deal with it).....etc etc etc

Of course today its dodging IEDs, friendly fire, sand more sand and even more sand, worse deployment schedules, and on and on......

Sad, very sad.... my dad wouldn't recognize any of this stuff from his time 1945-51... no wonder why he still worships the military....

In a way I still worship the military. I mention everyday. I gained a better work ethic from them, learned to listen, take orders, pay attention to detail, gained major confidence in my ability to overcome mental and physcial obstacles, are just some ways I am glad I served. Plus, I had the chance to go to 16 countries. To me it was not a waste, but you do see corruption and secret combos in the service, just as in other areas of the US Gov. :ymdevil:

Gadianton wrote: A good book to read on this is "Life after Life" of first-hand accounts of people who died prematurely, then returned to the operating table and saw life after life, but had a reason to return to mortal life,

http://lifeafterlife.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will keep my mouth shut as to the things I have seen, but I can testify of what I felt when I gave the prayer for my dad’s funeral. I felt the Lord in the chapel. I felt my dad, minerstering angels and witnesses testifying of life after death that day. I almost cried, LOL.It was a sweet spirit, a confidence, as if life after death was not a hoax, but a reality. Man can know for themselves.

Agreed... but why do you use the handle "Gadianton"? why not Korihor or Nehor?
Or perhaps a righteous after-death witness like Isaiah or Alma?

I guess our visits from those beyond who we do proxy work in the 136 functioning temples for, and let us know they have accepted the work on their behalf, are just hoaxes and figments of our imaginations.

Don't count on the countless spiritual experiences of those who frequent the temples doing work on behalf of those who have passed on.

Those who do not believe, will gain a testimony of it soon enough.

Oh, and don't tell the Hosts of Heaven either. They might get upset. You wouldn't like to see THEM get angry!