Philosphies of man... mingled with scripture

[JerL]

That phrase comes to mind every time I think about preparing a talk, lesson, etc. Especially when it comes to subjects about freedom, government, last days. Don't get me wrong I know that freedom is a principle of heaven, and in my opinion the most overriding concept there is. The things I would like to say I don't mind saying to people on my own time, but I hesitate to use a talk in sacrament meeting, or a lesson to forward what I feel is my own agenda. The talks and lessons I believe are to be used to teach what the Lord wants and needs taught to those who are there.

So my question is: what is appropriate when it comes to teaching the cause of freedom/liberty/government issues in church?

[AGalagaChiasmus]

Stick with the scriptures and no one can refute you, less they lose credibility.

[Henmasher]

A good way to avoid personal philosiphy is to use more than one scripture in direct quotation. Read 2 leading up to and maybe some post target scripture. It is when we take a scripture related to charity and then take it to forward a different agenda. I believe you know this and that is why you are worried.

[SpeedRacer]

Listen to the spirit

[lcare]

Listen to the spirit

Which one? There are three spirits which guide us, not just two. The Holy Ghost, Satan, and our own spirit. Sometimes in these matters our own spirit can seem like the Holy Ghost. The whole point of the gospel is to line up our own spirit and will with the Holy Ghost until we reach at-one-ment. At that point God will trust us enough to make our own decisions, and sanction us as we go.

A good example of this is when we allow ourselves to be creative in a good way. We are leading out and God is sanctioning us as we go. When it comes to teaching our political slant, it is okay to be creative and work it in with scripture, as in, what thought are you hung up on this week? Can you find a scripture that supports it? Can you blend this into the idea you are supposed to be teaching? We are encouraged to blend personal experiences with our teaching, and as long as we stick to our outlined lesson, we know we are in line with gospel truth. When we go to church and we hear our idea expressed by someone else, we have it confirmed that we are on the right track. This "coming together" of ideas is how we as a ward, grow in the gospel.

Many times these ideas, experiences and scriptures come to us as we are preparing our talk or lesson. It is just as easy to follow a wrong thread if you veer off the trail of the gospel. The Holy Ghost will warn you by giving you an uneasy feeling about it. Or rest assured He will give someone else an uneasy feeling after you have said it.

Come to think of it, I haven't read much on this forum that could be said in church.

[sbsion]

sounds like a sunday school lesson..........no, priesthood..........whoops a sacrament talk...........whatever

[Matthew.B]

Listen to the spirit

+1

JerL, it sounds like your heart is in the right place. You've given a very broad question, which is why "listen to the Spirit" is the best answer (and by "Spirit" we can assume "Holy Spirit" or "Holy Ghost" ).

More specific situations would be helpful. Have you been given an assignment to speak in Sacrament on a topic of your choice? Do you teach Priesthood? Or is this just a general question?

IMO, unless the Spirit directs otherwise, it would always be appropriate in any discussion about government or society to extol the Constitution and a Godly society. There are more than enough direct quotes from Joseph Smith on downwards to support such statements.

So long as you are conscious to *not* set yourself up as a "light unto the world" (the definition of priestcraft) you are completely justified in digging up a quote from J. Reuben Clark or ETB or Joseph Smith or the Doctrine and Covenants to teach others about God's way of organizing earthly governments. The perfecting of the Saints in all fields of knowledge is and always will be the LORD'S agenda.

You sound like you're doing the right thing. :ymhug:

[Gadiantun]

That phrase comes to mind every time I think about preparing a talk, lesson, etc. Especially when it comes to subjects about freedom, government, last days. Don't get me wrong I know that freedom is a principle of heaven, and in my opinion the most overriding concept there is. The things I would like to say I don't mind saying to people on my own time, but I hesitate to use a talk in sacrament meeting, or a lesson to forward what I feel is my own agenda. The talks and lessons I believe are to be used to teach what the Lord wants and needs taught to those who are there.

So my question is: what is appropriate when it comes to teaching the cause of freedom/liberty/government issues in church?

Great question I want to say. Two things come to my mind. First, this year’s "Gospel Principles" book in the beginning, for Teachers it is stated by church leaders clearly to not use any outside books to prepare the lessons. They prompt to use the standard works, and only Ensign Articles, or citing from the Church News.

This leads me to the phrase for us to "liken the scriptures unto ourselves". It is so tempting to bring in the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, from CNN, or Meet the Press, etc. But what edifies is the word of God as found in scriptures and the Ensign and Church News. We get enough of men’s ideas each day we need to drink from the source when we are at our church meetings.

[JohnnyL]

So my question is: what is appropriate when it comes to teaching the cause of freedom/liberty/government issues in church?

When you feel prompted by the Spirit to do so.

[Etosha]

I agree that we should always teach from official church doctrines - not even our own personal revelations. There are so many people at such different levels, church is for the basics and we still can't even seem to get that right most of the time - if we did there would be virtually no divorce or back biting or hurt feelings!

[JerL]

Listen to the spirit

+1

JerL, it sounds like your heart is in the right place. You've given a very broad question, which is why "listen to the Spirit" is the best answer (and by "Spirit" we can assume "Holy Spirit" or "Holy Ghost" ).

More specific situations would be helpful. Have you been given an assignment to speak in Sacrament on a topic of your choice? Do you teach Priesthood? Or is this just a general question?

IMO, unless the Spirit directs otherwise, it would always be appropriate in any discussion about government or society to extol the Constitution and a Godly society. There are more than enough direct quotes from Joseph Smith on downwards to support such statements.

So long as you are conscious to *not* set yourself up as a "light unto the world" (the definition of priestcraft) you are completely justified in digging up a quote from J. Reuben Clark or ETB or Joseph Smith or the Doctrine and Covenants to teach others about God's way of organizing earthly governments. The perfecting of the Saints in all fields of knowledge is and always will be the LORD'S agenda.

You sound like you're doing the right thing. :ymhug:

I left it general on purpose for 2 reasons: 1st I was interested what answers would come, with out getting bogged down in details of my particulars, 2nd I thought it would be a good general discussion to have.

I do teach priesthood and keep outside sources out of the lessons. I do interject my opinion once in awhile, but I am certain to clarify that it is my opinion and only that. I haven't had to give a talk in church in this ward, I think the Bishop who is aware of my opinions was afraid of what I might say. (No actual proof of that just my opinion.)

Things I have considered putting in talks if asked to speak (not that I am hoping): the concept of common law, jury nullification, consent of the governed, Where governmental power is derived, the idea that the Atonement was as much for our agency and freedom as it was for our salvation, along with other things that I cannot recall right now. These are things I am not embarrassed nor ashamed to speak of, but I hesitate to use the Lords time to discuss them.

[Matthew.B]

[quote="JerL]I do teach priesthood and keep outside sources out of the lessons. I do interject my opinion once in awhile, but I am certain to clarify that it is my opinion and only that. I haven't had to give a talk in church in this ward, I think the Bishop who is aware of my opinions was afraid of what I might say. (No actual proof of that just my opinion.)[/quote]Sounds good. I had the privelege of teaching Priesthood in my Singles Branch for about 6 months and it was a great experience. There were a few times I felt permitted by the Spirit to interject a thing or two about God's design for government, but no one picked up on it and no discussion ensued. Of course, being a Single's Ward it's hard to get any discussion at all going. )

[quote="JerL]Things I have considered putting in talks if asked to speak (not that I am hoping): the concept of common law, jury nullification, consent of the governed, Where governmental power is derived, the idea that the Atonement was as much for our agency and freedom as it was for our salvation, along with other things that I cannot recall right now. These are things I am not embarrassed nor ashamed to speak of, but I hesitate to use the Lords time to discuss them.[/quote]I myself wouldn't get too deep into any government talk that couldn't be heavly supported by any of the Apostle's teachings (so I would mention how the Constitution was inspired and the relation between Joseph Smith and the Founding Fathers, but not much farther).

While I would love to hear a good talk that draws on Apostolic sources on government in Church, I don't think it would be appropriate unless the whole meeting were devoted to that theme (as on some wards' Fourth of July).

The doctrine of the Atonement being for our agency and freedom would definitely be an awesome topic no matter what the setting, though.