Here it goes!...
I wanted to respond to the letter within the letter in different colors. I wholeheartedly appreciate this opportunity to study the scriptures and words of the prophets with you. My response is in red. Quotes are in blue.
Hi Brother Nix,
I enjoyed your email to our family and would like to give you some of my reaction as a LDS Romney supporter.
I don’t have time to go over each of your points—we should talk about all this in person some time. but my main point that I want to put out there is that there are just wars and unjust wars and if your always pro-war, then your going to be wrong some of the time, and if your always anti-war then your going to be wrong some of the time.
I agree that there are just and unjust wars. Just wars are those where we have the Lords’ approval. Unjust wars are the ones where we don’t have the Lord’s approval. There may be a difference in semantics between us. I will never say I am pro-war…in my mind that is akin to me saying…”I am pro-evil”….because war is one of the greatest evils to plague mankind. I am always pro-peace…even if I am fighting in a war that the Lord has justified. The Lord’s charge to us is to “ renounce war and proclaim peace…D&C 98:16” To me that is not a command to do sometimes depending on the situation…but always.
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?v ... &hideNav=1
The word of prophecy is final: “… with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; … until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations.” (D&C 87:6.) And yet in the same breath in which he declares that God “foresaw that war should come upon all nations,” President Joseph F. Smith declared all this warlike activity to be strictly contrary to the will of God, who “is not pleased, nor was it his purpose or design or intent to foreordain the condition [of war] that the world is in today,” since wars come “not to fulfil the purposes of God, but the purposes of the nations of the earth in consequence of their wickedness.” 1 Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine (course of study for the Melchizedek Priesthood quorums, 1970–71), vol. 1, p. 131. Hugh Nibley, “If There Must Needs Be Offense,” Ensign, Jul 1971, 53
I agree that Helaman 6;38 is happening to an unknown extent. But I’m not quite sure how you’re trying to tie that in to your anti-war theme. This verse is not about war; it’s about the infiltration of an evil secret society in to the Nephites civilization, which murder, steal, and plunder.
http://www.geocities.com/graymada/nwo-etb.html
A casual study of the Book of Mormon reveals that the secret combinations that the Gadianton’s participated in…sought control of the government (See Helaman 1:1–4; 2:4, 5; 3 Nephi 3:6; 6:30; 7:12; Ether 9:1–6; 13:18.)…to change laws…murder, steal, and plunder…and destroy the church of God (to name a few purposes). Perhaps the saints aren’t personally murdering…but are they supporting those in government that do through unjust wars? Do they cast their ballots in favor of constitutional legislation? Do they partake in socialistic programs that steal via taxation from others? Do they support a one world government that has been warned about by the prophets? Do they know what is in the military commissions act of 2006 and other such heinous bills? Do they support a dissolution of the checks and balances set up by inspiration of God…to give more power to the executive branch to “take care of business”? Do they applaud and support a imperialistic foreign policy because “we are right…and other countries need democracy”?
Secret Combinations aren’t just the mob, drug cartels and the like…they are here and now…and I would contend that they are in government….and that the prophets and scriptures make that clear.
“I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)
I testify that as the forces of evil increase under Lucifer’s leadership and as the forces of good increase under the leadership of Jesus Christ, there will be growing battles between the two until the final confrontation. As the issues become clearer and more obvious, all mankind will eventually be required to align themselves either for the kingdom of God or for the kingdom of the devil. As these conflicts rage, either secretly or openly, the righteous will be tested. God’s wrath will soon shake the nations of the earth and will be poured out on the wicked without measure. (See JS—H 1:45; D&C 1:9.) But God will provide strength for the righteous and the means of escape; and eventually and finally truth will triumph. (See 1 Ne. 22:15–23.) Ezra Taft Benson, “I Testify,” Ensign, Nov. 1988, 86
“The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.
I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere . Each began as small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras. Gordon B. Hinckley “a testimony vibrant and true" from the first presidency in 2005
The “them” that the Nephites built up and supported were the Gadianton robbers. The reason that they were allowed to spread through out the land of the Nephites is because the “more wicked” supported them while the less wicked did nothing; until it had spread to the more part of the righteous as well as the wicked.
The evil society spread because it was un-confronted. The verse before (Hel 6:37) shows how the Lamanites avoided being taken over by the Gadianton robbers:
37 And it came to pass that the Lamanites did hunt the band of robbers of Gadianton; and they did preach the word of God among the more wicked part of them, insomuch that this band of robbers was utterly destroyed from among the Lamanites.
The Lamanites hunted down and utterly destroyed the Gadianton robbers from among them; while, they preached the word of God to the wicked and this brought peace to their lands. In this case, what would be called by the sound-bight over-simplifier of today “pro-war” was the right position and brought peace. While, on the other hand, the Nephites inability to hunt down and destroy the evil that threatened them lead to their destruction.
There is no indication from the record that they were “destroyed” bodily….or that this was a war. The record only makes mention that by “preaching the word of God among the more wicked part of them”…the robbers were “utterly destroyed”. Certainly turning a wicked brother to Christ would end their affiliation with a secret cabal.
And of course, the Nephites in Mormon 3:9-16 who were “pro-war”, blood thirsty, and drunken with revenge were past feeling and fighting a grossly unjust war—even devolving to sadistic torture and cannibalism. And although you used this example to show an example of the unjustness of preempted war—I hope that you wouldn’t say that the Iraq war is in this same category.
We have not yet sunk to the depths of cannibalism as will happen as outlined in the scriptures (Duet 28)…and yet there are elements of the bloodthirsty desires for revenge as found in Mormon 3. How many people shortly after 9/11 were saying “We should just send a bomb over there and level their country!!!” How many of US citizens feel no grief over the casualties…our brothers and sisters…who have nothing to do with Al Queda…or whomever they think the bad guys are? How many support candidates for president that support sadistic torture?
Mormon chapter 3 is a screaming rebuke to those that would preemptively fight a war. Here is the key…it is found in the words “go up”…
Mormon 3:10 And they did aswear by the heavens, and also by the throne of God, that they bwould go up to battle against their enemies, and would cut them off from the face of the land.
14 And when they had sworn by all that had been aforbidden them by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, that they would go up unto their enemies to battle, and avenge themselves of the blood of their brethren, behold the voice of the Lord came unto me, saying:
Mormon now tells us his commentary on why they lost…
Mormon 4:4 And it was abecause the armies of the Nephites went up unto the Lamanites that they began to be smitten; for were it not for that, the Lamanites could have had no power over them.
Here are others….
3 Nephi 3:20-21
20 Now the people said unto Gidgiddoni: aPray unto the Lord, and let us go up upon the mountains and into the wilderness, that we may fall upon the robbers and destroy them in their own lands.
21 But Gidgiddoni saith unto them: The Lord aforbid; for if we should go up against them the Lord would bdeliver us into their hands; therefore we will prepare ourselves in the center of our lands, and we will gather all our armies together, and we will not go against them, but we will wait till they shall come against us; therefore as the Lord liveth, if we do this he will deliver them into our hands.
He also gives a key. Not to go to their lands…but to wait in your own land until they come against you. That key is found again in Alma 43. Here Moroni has a superior military force…he consults with the Prophet Alma on what to do and then….
26 And he caused that all the people in that quarter of the land should gather themselves together to battle against the Lamanites, to defend their lands and their country, their rights and their liberties; therefore they were prepared against the time of the coming of the Lamanites.
I ask…can the LDS people believe that there is scriptural backing to the claim that it is possible to be so broad in their definition of the word “defend” to believe that it is agreeable to our God to go up seeking to destroy our enemies?! Think of almost any team sport….when you are on “defense”…the other team is coming after you….when you are on “offense” you are going after the other team. The only time I can think of when such an action has been approved of by the Lord was with the children of Israel being given the lands of the unrighteous inhabitants of the holy land.
section 98 is awesome because it clarifies the doctrines of “turning the other cheek” and “forgiving 70 x 7” because in the Bible these doctrines, in my mind, are clearly describing person to person relation in a micro realm, but some in Christendom have misconstrued these doctrines to apply in the macro realm—nation to nation. So they think that we should turn the other cheek if we are attacked by another nation—if they bomb New York give them LA as well.
Bombs. Yes…there will be bombs. Statements made by J. Reuben Clark and reiterated by David O. McKay, Neal A Maxwell, and perhaps a scripture in Revelations make that clear.
But section 98 clarifies this.
23 Now, I speak unto you concerning your families—if men will asmite you, or your families, once, and ye bbear it patiently and crevile not against them, neither seek drevenge, ye shall be erewarded;
So here (v. 23-31) is the law for the micro person to person relations. you should patiently bear them actually hitting you and/or your family 3 times them you are justified in reacting if you choose to or you can opt for more blessings and spare them.
Agreed. (Except I will comment on the bombs part.)
Verses 33-38 lay out the law for nation to nation relation—rhyme intended— (and it includes kindred, tongues and peoples too, so it would include a nationless group like alkida)
33 And again, this is the alaw that I gave unto mine ancients, that they should not go out unto battle against any nation, kindred, tongue, or people, save I, the Lord, commanded them.
34 And if any nation, tongue, or people should proclaim war against them, they should first lift a standard of apeace unto that people, nation, or tongue;
35 And if that people did not accept the offering of peace, neither the second nor the third time, they should bring these testimonies before the Lord;
36 Then I, the Lord, would give unto them a commandment, and justify them in going out to battle against that nation, tongue, or people.
37 And I, the Lord, would afight their battles, and their children’s battles, and their children’s children’s, until they had avenged themselves on all their enemies, to the third and fourth generation.
38 Behold, this is an aensample unto all people, saith the Lord your God, for justification before me.
This section is directed to the saints in Missouri. so, according to this, before they (the saints in Zion) can justify going to war against the Missouri militia/mob, the Missouri militia/mob would have to proclaim war against them—you don’t have to wait for a strike like in v. 23-31, they only have to declare their intent to go to war with them—then if they do this 3 times while the saint continue to declare peace, then they can take this to the Lord and he “would [not may or might] give unto them a commandment [not stated, but presumably through the Prophet], and justify them in going out to battle against that nation, tongue, or people.
True…and I would add as you have stated above that it also applies to nation to nation etc…
The church did not go to war against Iraq—our government did. True. So president Hinckley doesn’t need to officially approve or disapprove of this war, nor will he because he is not the head of the US government—he’s the earthly head of the church. If this was not the case he would have been morally obligated to come out on one side of this war or the other—you can’t justly stay officially neutral if you’re the deciding factor.
I disagree…a prophet whose nation...or planet I would add…does not heed the voice of the Lord through him regarding war may [/color]“stand as an idle witness”. (Mormon 3:16) President Hinckley chooses all of the word he says regarding the war as skilled as the most eloquent politician. I say that for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see will find his true positions by studying his words. For example this one again…
“The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.
I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere . Each began as small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras. Gordon B. Hinckley “a testimony vibrant and true" from the first presidency in 2005
And…We sometimes are prone to glorify the great empires of the past, such as the Ottoman Empire, the Roman and Byzantine Empires, and in more recent times, the vast British Empire. But there is a darker side to every one of them. There is a grim and tragic overlay of brutal conquest, of subjugation, of repression, and an astronomical cost in life and treasure. Gordon B. Hinckley, “War and Peace,” Ensign, May 2003, 78
But verse 38 says that this is an aensample unto all people. So if the US government is to fight a just war they must follow the same pattern.
Sodom Hussein had proclaimed war against us for decades, and openly supported groups hostile to us and are allies; including, paining the assassination of our president, shooting at our planes, giving money to the families of homicide bombers in Israel, and threatening us and the world with WMD’s that he had at one point—even using them against his own people, then acting as if he still had them and refusing to allow in weapons inspector to check.
No doubt about it…Saddam wasn’t a good guy. I went looking for the times that Saddam proclaimed war against the US and couldn’t find it. Can you please cite the dates and sources of those proclamations of war?.
we had about 14 (well over the required 3) UN resolutions declaring peace if Sodom would give up his murderous designs and allow weapon inspector back in. (I believe that the UN is unconstitutional and don’t support any resolutions it makes). so all we needed is to bring these testimonies before the Lord to get our commandment and justification for war. For arguments sake let’s say that the stipulation of 3 proclamations of war were met…then yes…we would just need the approval of the Lord. And seems how the president is commander and chief of the US army, it would only make sense that he would be the one to bring this before the Lord. . Is he righteous?….I don’t know him. What can you point to scripturally or in the words of the prophets that this would be the case. All of the examples I can think of involve the prophets. Even Captain Moroni conferred with the prophet Alma (Alma 43:23-24) Perhaps there are examples I can’t think of. and I have no doubt that president Bush did this seems how he says that he prays about ever decision he makes for the country Still…piety can be real or feigned…and Satan’s servants will use a mask of religion to hide true motives. Check out this one….
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. ...
- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
That’s the guy I want leading us! He’s a Christian!! Is he running in ’08! (Sarcasm) Politicians want your trust and will do most anything to get it. Statesmen do what needs to be done for the people even if it makes them unpopular. Politicians in the US use Christianity just like kissing babies.
So the question is not did the Prophet officially approve of the war; it is did the Lord justify (through the process in section 98) the US government in their decision to go to war with Iraq, and I believe he did. I could be wrong, I wonder if George Bush claims that we have gone to war because of a commandment from God? (D&C 98:33) but, either way, if we did Ron Paul’s imminent withdrawal; it would precipitate chaos and massacre and that would be on our hands—regardless how one feels about entering the war, we now owe the Iraqi people a stable homeland.
It is quite a quagmire. I see it as…darned if you do…darned if you don’t. I guess we could continue in war as outlined by President Hinckley…
No one can ever estimate the terrible suffering incident to these wars across the globe. Lives numbered in the millions have been lost. The terrible wounds of war have left bodies maimed and minds destroyed. Families have been left without fathers and mothers. Young people who have been recruited to fight have, in many instances, died while those yet alive have had woven into the very fabric of their natures elements of hatred which will never leave them. The treasure of nations has been wasted and will never be recovered. The devastation of war seems so unnecessary and such a terrible waste of human life and national resources. We ask, will this terrible, destructive way of handling disagreements among the sons and daughters of God ever end? Gordon B. Hinckley, “An Unending Conflict, a Victory Assured,” Ensign, Jun 2007, 4–9Or we could do as David O McKay has said…[/color]“With the spirit of Christ in their hearts no nation will arrogate itself superiority over others but give to each nation, however small, however seemingly backward the right to self-determination.” (David O’ Mckay, Gospel Ideals:selections from the Discourses of David O’ McKay, 277-289)
Perhaps if we stay it will come to pass as Joseph Smith prophesied….Prophecy of Joseph Smith, as recorded by Mosiah Lyman Hancock (June 19, 1844), commonly known as the “Hancock Prophecy”:
The next day the Prophet came to our home and stopped in our carpenter shop and stood by the turning lathe. I went and got my map for him. "Now," he said, "I will show you the travels of this people." He then showed our travels thou Iowa, and said, "Here you will make a place for the winter; and here you will travel west until you come to the valley of the Great Salt Lake! You will build cities to the North and to the South, and to the East and to the West; and you will become a great and wealthy people in that land. But, the United States will not receive you with the laws which God desires you to live, and you will have to go to where the Nephites lost their power. They worked in the United Order for 166 years, and the Saints have got to become proficient in the laws of God before they can meet the Lord Jesus Christ, or even the city of Enoch." He said we will not travel the shape of the horse shoe for there we will await the action of the government. Placing his finger on the map, I should think about where Snowflake, Arizona is situated, or it could have been Mexico, he said, "The government will not receive you with the laws that God designed you to live, and those who are desirous to live the laws of God will have to go South. You will live to see men arise in power in the Church who will seek to put down your friends and the friends of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Many will be hoisted because of their money and the worldly learning which they seem to be in possession of; and many who are the true followers of our Lord and Savior will be cast down because of their poverty. There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands, until other nations will say, "Let's divide up the lands of United States." Then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their forefathers, that the land will not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up, when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, "Brethren, we are glad you have come. Give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God." Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when it's liberty hangs by a hair, as it were.
(Sources: The Journal of Mosiah Lyman Hancock, p. 19-20; Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock, typescript, BYU Library Special Collections, p. 29. Compiled by Amy E. Baird, Victoria H. Jackson, and Laura L. Wassell (daughters of Mosiah Hancock). http://www.math.byu.edu/~smithw/Lds/LDS ... 0186-187.)
Plus, Sodom satanically oppressed his own people. This included: killing one and thousands at a time—we’ve fond the mass graves--, killing those who didn’t vote for him along with their family—and still he could only got about 98% to vote for him--, using torture and rape to stay in power and had dungeons built for that purpose. Sodom’s treatment of his people was one of the reasons that Bush put forth in the state of the nation address which preceded the war, and I believe this is a just reason based on President McKay’s 3rd condition.
“There are … two conditions which may justify a truly Christian man to enter—enter, not begin—a war: (1) An attempt by others to dominate and to deprive another of his free agency [which implies that the aggressor started the war], and (2) Loyalty to his own country. Possibly there is a third, viz., Defense of a weak nation that is being unjustly crushed by a strong, ruthless one [which also implies that the aggressor started the war. We entered to liberate the Iraqi people decades after Sodom stared his warlike oppression of his people].” (David o. McKay April conference report 1942)
I am well familiar with the writings of David O. McKay. I consider chapters 20-23 of the Discourses of David O. McKay as some of the greatest writings on the topic of war by any of the prophets. I reiterate his point…with my own bold for emphasis on key words...
“There are … two conditions which may justify a truly Christian man to enter—enter, not begin—a war: (1) An attempt by others to dominate and to deprive another of his free agency [which implies that the aggressor started the war], and (2) Loyalty to his own country. Possibly there is a third, viz., Defense of a weak nation that is being unjustly crushed by a strong, ruthless one [which also implies that the aggressor started the war. We entered to liberate the Iraqi people decades after Sodom stared his warlike oppression of his people].” (David o. McKay April conference report 1942)
It is evident from this statement that he was unresolved as to the correctness of such a stance. This is clear from his use of the word “possibly”. Of all my studies…this statement is the closest I have seen to try to make the point that one nation is to “enter” a war to defend another country.
It is also interesting that the gospel doctrine manual for the Book of Mormon discusses this quote as follows…
As you examine the designs of Zerahemnah and the Lamanites and compare them with the designs of Moroni and his people, what do you discover? Alma reports that "the Nephites were inspired by a better cause" (vss. 45, 46). President David O. McKay said that there were two justifiable reasons for going to war: (1) preservation of free agency and (2) loyalty to country. (See Reading 33-25 for this quotation.)
Book of Mormon Student Manual (1982), p. 329
Notice how President McKay's statement agrees with Alma 43:45–47. Compare them both with D&C 98:23–36.
Note the omission of the possible justifiable reason in the churches education systems student guide.
On a more personal side note, the day that our troops marched into Baghdad and with the help of the Iraqi people toppled the giant idols built to Sodom, while the people dance in the streets—over joyed with the fall of a tyrant and the hope of freedom, I was over come with the spirit and gratitude to my God that I lived in a country that would spend their own gold and spill their own blood in liberating strife to free a people on the other side of the world and demonstrate to the world that they loved mercy more then life!
"There is one and only one legitimate goal of United States foreign policy. It is a narrow goal, a nationalistic goal: the preservation of our national independence. Nothing in the Constitution grants that the president shall have the privilege of offering himself as a world leader. He is our executive; he is on our payroll; he is supposed to put our best interests in front of those of other nations. Nothing in the Constitution nor in logic grants to the president of the United States or to Congress the power to influence the political life of other countries, to 'uplift' their cultures, to bolster their economies, to feed their people, or even to defend them against their enemies." (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 614; see also pp. 682 & 704.)
While such feelings appear to be driven out of sincere desires for the welfare of other nations…and such desires are truly Christian…it is not what our president is paid for…and it is what the prophets have warned against. If I had a sandwich shop and I found my employees giving out free sandwiches on the street to poor people and I asked “Why are you doing that!?” and they told me…”Because it’s the right thing to do” I would reply “Yes…it is wonderful to feed the poor…but that is not what you have been hired to do!” Then employees reply “Don’t you have a heart!! I thought you were a Christian!” I would reply “Yes! I am a Christian!..and you are stealing from me and not doing your job! Your job is to make my business money!” Likewise…the president should only act in accordance with the job description as outlined in the constitution…or we need to fire our employee in favor of another.
I don’t believe that we went to Iraq for the main purpose of liberating strife on the other side of the globe. It appears that many of the military that are there are getting wise to that too.
Military personel have contributed more to Ron Paul than to any other candidate; Democrat or Republican.http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070730/engelhardt
Iraq for sale the war profiteers….
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5uk-T46soz8A soldier speaks of his experience in Iraq (caution…uses the b word)
I want to keep it as short as I can, but we need to have a good friendly debate about this in person some time. In person is fine…written in my opinion is even better. That way sources can be cited more readily and time can be taken to digest each point without being rushed. To end I want to respond a little about what you said about Mitt and Ron.
I think you’re right that if Romney was Baptist, unattractive, and on a democrat ticket that few Mormons would support him, but that’s like saying that if Mitt was the complete opposite of himself that he would have difference supporters, or if Mitt Romney was Jimmy Carter few Mormons would vote for him—and that’s true.
Perhaps my point could be better said “If Mitt were Baptist, unattractive, running as a Democrat, had this history http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marr ... ey/record/
and if the LDS people were willing to read it and believe it…that no LDS would vote for him”.
I can’t say why others support Mitt, but I like him because he’s not a career politician, yet still has crucial executive experience. He has brought positive change to everything that he has been put in charge of: he turned around dozens of businesses, the Utah Olympics, and Massachusetts.
That’s good.
He is the most conservative person that can win (and being able to win is vital because otherwise, we get Hillary); his ideas are viable and would move us in a more conservative direction. Plus, he has a track record of getting things done, so his promises are not empty—he’s done it before.
“...we shall have the satisfaction of knowing that we have acted conscientiously, and have used our best judgement. And if we have to throw away our votes, we had better do so upon a worthy rather than an unworthy individual who might make use of the weapon we put in his hand to destroy us.” (Joseph Smith Jr., Times and Seasons, Nauvoo, IV, 441. Cited also in Roberts, Comprehensive History, II, 208-209.)
We engage in the election the same as in any other principle: you are to vote for good men, and if you do not do this it is a sin: to vote for wicked men, it would be sin. Choose the good and refuse the evil. Men of false principles have preyed upon us like wolves upon helpless lambs. Damn the rod of tyranny; curse it. Let every man use his liberties according to the Constitution. Don’t fear man or devil; electioneer with all people, male and female, and exhort them to do the thing that is right. (Author: Hyrum Smith, Source: History of the Church, Vol.6, Ch.15, p.323
With Ron Paul, first I think that he is just wrong on the war and his brand of isolationism “Already, I can hear the chorus chanting "Isolationism, isolationism, he's turning back the clock to isolationism." How many use that word without having the slightest idea of what it really means! The so-called isolationism of the United States in past decades is a pure myth. What isolationism? Long before the current trend of revoking our Declaration of Independence under the guise of international cooperation, American influence and trade was felt in every region of the globe. Individuals and private groups spread knowledge, business, prosperity, religion, good will and, above all, respect throughout every foreign continent. It was not necessary then for America to give up her independence to have contact and influence with other countries. It is not necessary now. Yet, many Americans have been led to believe that our country is so strong that it can defend, feed and subsidize half the world, while at the same time believing that we are so weak and "inter-dependent" that we cannot survive without pooling our resources and sovereignty with those we subsidize. If wanting no part of this kind of "logic" is isolationism, then it is time we brought it back into vogue.” Ezra Taft Benson. Friday, June 21, 1968, Preston Idaho.
See also http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/on-iso ... m#more-547
is what lead to WWII.
“Again, misguided leaders of nations, worshiping the god of materialism, have brought on World War 2, and unless the nations avoid the evil things which caused this war, there will be a World War 3 even more destructive, more terrible than the present murderous conflict. Like causes produce like effects.” David O McKay, Gospel Ideals: Selections from the Discourses of David O McKay, 277-289.
The power people are now planning another war for you. They have made this depression last many more years than it would have ordinarily lasted. They got stock down to 14 cents on a dollar. They just bought up everything at 14 cents on a dollar, and they're now ready to make additional billions as they put you through another world war.
They're going to have you pay for it. You're going to be involved in it. You don't think you'll get involved, but they'll say that for the peace of the world, you must come in, and you'll feel so soft-hearted about it, you'll come in. It will be just as big a mistake as World War I." [1937 / The Life of J. Reuben Clark, Jr. September 1, 1992 Delivered at the Grantsville High School, Grantsville, Utah by W. Cleon Skousen]
And if we left Iraq immediately—like he wants to do—countless innocence would me massacre; just like when we pulled out of Viet Nam and 1-3 million were massacred. Whether or not one believes that the war was justified to enter—if we left now the blood of the massacred would be on our hands.
People will continue to die if we stay. I don’t doubt that people will continue to die if we leave. At least the people being killed would no longer be our soldiers…we would no longer be killing innocents trying to protect their land from invaders (us)…we would no longer be wasting billions of dollars funding the war…and so on and so forth.
Secondly, I like a lot of what Ron has to say about limiting the size and scope of government, but they are hollow promises—he’s running for President Paul, not king Paul. I can’t begin to say how much irony I find in this statement! Our current president is continually signing legislation that shifts more power to the executive branch! This legislation makes him a king! The military commissions act, the patriot act, and a slew of other backoffice legislation has accomplished this. The founders set up the constitution to avoid a King George on the US continent. The constitution was meant to put into effect peoples law…not rulers law…and to keep us from swinging to the other extreme of anarchy. Ron Paul’s positions are to get us back to peoples law…away from the brand of rulers law that we are currently live in and the King at the head of it. If Ron Paul’s positions seem extreme…it is only an indication of how far we have drifted from true principles. He knows better then anyone that his espoused drastic changes could only be enacted through bloody force, and that’s what some of his supporter want him to do. Change by government is ether slow or bloody; what we need is to chart a steady course towards a more conservative government—not revolution or deadlock.
They probably said the same thing to George Washington. Getting our country back to the constitution will be like taking the drugs away from an addict. There will most definitely be a period of withdrawal…as people stop looking to the government to support them. Many of Ron Pauls programs are meant to be implemented gradually to make such withdrawals less painful. Still…our country is in great peril…it is a limb with gang green. The other candidates propose bandaids and Dr. Paul proposes amputation via the constitution. It will hurt…but I believe it may very well be the last hope to save our nation from collapse….coupled with the nation returning to God.
As a final note…God has always tried his people with war…to see if they would trust Him or the arm of flesh…to see if they would do as commanded or do their own thing. He had the Prophet Moses lead his people to what seemed certain death at the hands of Pharaohs mighty military at the shore of the red sea and then delivered them. He had the army of Gideon reduced down from 32k down to 300 just so that the Israelites would know that the Lord delivered them. He had Joshua win a battle by blowing horns and shouting…how ludicrous does that sound! There are countless stories in the scriptures to this effect. The Lord is to be involved every step of the way. He even is angry if a peace treaty is agreed upon without His approval! (Josh 9). I see this issue as one that is now separating His people.
D&C 1:14 And the aarm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the bday cometh that they who will not chear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his dservants, neither give eheed to the words of the prophets and fapostles, shall be gcut off from among the people;
If there be bombs to come flying our way will I sit and do nothing! Yes! I will do as the Lord commands…even if it means my life. If He says the best defense is to just stay where I am with a strong military at home…instead of policing the worlds madmen…and fighting others wars…then I will follow.
I look forward to any responses you, your family, or any others would wish to send my way. If you feel that any of my positions aren’t well defended… I would be pleased to provide more scriptures and words of the prophets. Please know that I feel no ill will...I am trying to share what I believe is the Lord's position.
Best Wishes…
Stephen Nix
Well, that’s all I can muster for now—we’ll have to talk later.
with love,
