Characteristics of a worthy Priesthood "Practitioner"...

[Rand]

What characteristics have you observed that epitomized the worthy holder, or better practitioner of the Holy Priesthood?

I would start by listing patience. I observed my father give tender loving care to my mother for 12 years after she had an auto accident and became a quadriplegic. The accident happened two weeks after they cancelled their health insurance (a great blessing). So he was her only care giver. His patience was endless it seemed to me. Never a full nights sleep, he could never just sit and eat, he always had to put her needs first. It remains a great blessings to me.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

What a wonderful father you have.

I would add boldness to your list. By boldness, I mean a willingness to proclaim the Retsored Gospel whenever possible. By boldness, I mean using the Priesthood powers we receive when ordained.

[SpeedRacer]

Quiet and humble service. I see the men in my ward going out their way without any fanfare to help those around them, and all I can see is the Savior.

[Amore Vero]

What characteristics have you observed that epitomized the worthy holder, or better practitioner of the Holy Priesthood?

I would start by listing patience. I observed my father give tender loving care to my mother for 12 years after she had an auto accident and became a quadriplegic. The accident happened two weeks after they cancelled their health insurance (a great blessing). So he was her only care giver. His patience was endless it seemed to me. Never a full nights sleep, he could never just sit and eat, he always had to put her needs first. It remains a great blessings to me.

Your father was a wonderful example of what I would call 'unconditional true everlasting love', which is Charity.

Which I believe is the hallmark of a righteous man & the only way to know that a man is righteous & really possesses Priesthood power, for he will have this unconditional love, 1st & foremost for his wife. He would never break his marriage covenants to her or leave her no matter what she may do or be like. Even if she divorced him & remarried another man in the temple, he would still stay single & faithful to her & wait for her to repent & return to him someday. He would give his life, one day at a time, to always put her welfare & wishes ahead of his own.

Christ said that it is only by 'love' that we will know who are his true disciples.

Righteous men also seek not only to protect & serve their own wife, but all women around him, like Moroni did. For that is men's #1 responsibility in life.

This to me is the only way to know if a man is truly trustworthy & righteous.

[SpeedRacer]

Good Post Amore. Your tone suggests you were not always entreated by men as you suggest they should. If that is true, it makes me sad. Men just do not realize the scars they leave in their selfish wakes.

[Amore Vero]

Good Post Amore. Your tone suggests you were not always entreated by men as you suggest they should. If that is true, it makes me sad. Men just do not realize the scars they leave in their selfish wakes.

Thank you SR, I really appreciate those words. I'm ok but I have learned alot & am hopefully better for it. But women also must have this unconditional love.

[Original_Intent]

What characteristics have you observed that epitomized the worthy holder, or better practitioner of the Holy Priesthood?

I would start by listing patience. I observed my father give tender loving care to my mother for 12 years after she had an auto accident and became a quadriplegic. The accident happened two weeks after they cancelled their health insurance (a great blessing). So he was her only care giver. His patience was endless it seemed to me. Never a full nights sleep, he could never just sit and eat, he always had to put her needs first. It remains a great blessings to me.

Your father was a wonderful example of what I would call 'unconditional true everlasting love', which is Charity.

Which I believe is the hallmark of a righteous man & the only way to know that a man is righteous & really possesses Priesthood power, for he will have this unconditional love, 1st & foremost for his wife. He would never break his marriage covenants to her or leave her no matter what she may do or be like. Even if she divorced him & remarried another man in the temple, he would still stay single & faithful to her & wait for her to repent & return to him someday. He would give his life, one day at a time, to always put her welfare & wishes ahead of his own.

Christ said that it is only by 'love' that we will know who are his true disciples.

Righteous men also seek not only to protect & serve their own wife, but all women around him, like Moroni did. For that is men's #1 responsibility in life.

This to me is the only way to know if a man is truly trustworthy & righteous.

Amore, I really appreciate you and love most of what you say, but I do think that some of what you propose about true love - well it just doesn't sit well with me.
For instance: (and this is really all I disagree with you about)

Even if she divorced him & remarried another man in the temple, he would still stay single & faithful to her & wait for her to repent & return to him someday.

I am sorry this is, in my opinion, ridiculous and not expected or even particularly righteous behavior. I love my wife, we have been married for 20 years, and I would do anything for her (and I think she would for me.) I would gladly lay down my life for her. But if she left me (and it wasn't due to anything I had done) I don;t think I ahve the responsibility or that it is even a good thing that I pine away for the rest of my life hoping she would repent and come back to me. I would be broken hearted for the rest of my life - no question - and I think no matter what she did I would always love her and want what was best for her. But this idea that marrying again would be to break faith with her or my covenants - sorry, it sounds like you have been reading too many Jane Austen novels. NOt that I ahve the least concern, but I would forgive adultery, I think about the only thing that would probably take me a lifetime to forgive would be if she did something insane like killing our boys...I'll admit that would be tough to forgive...but sorry back on topic - I just think your idea of "true love" and the need to wait patiently for the rest of your life for them to come back - I strongly disagree.

[sbsion]

gratitude..............what is, is, what is best

[Rand]

Sbsion, great comment. I agree. Give thanks to God in all things. A friend who served as secretary to an area presidency learned from them, as worthy Priesthood holders. the area president said many times, "God is in charge. What can we learn from this."

OI: I don't intend this to be too direct or to be contentious: you wouldn't do anything for her if you wouldn't tolerate that type of insult. It says you have limits. Christ did not. He went the whole way for the Father. His love for the Father was perfect. Job's love of God was perfect. Abraham's love of God was perfect. If we keep our covenants, even if our partner does not, we are showing love of the Father. Our covenant is with Him, not our mate.

[SpeedRacer]

OI: I don't intend this to be too direct or to be contentious: you wouldn't do anything for her if you wouldn't tolerate that type of insult. It says you have limits. Christ did not. He went the whole way for the Father. His love for the Father was perfect. Job's love of God was perfect. Abraham's love of God was perfect. If we keep our covenants, even if our partner does not, we are showing love of the Father. Our covenant is with Him, not our mate.

D&C 82:10

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

If your spouse breaks their covenant with the Lord, they have no promise. A sealing takes two people. If your sealing was not ratified through the holy spirit of promise, you have nothing in the afterlife. It cannot be sealed to one person.

There are conditions of repentance. Jesus cannot reach down to the unrepentant and save them, he cannot force someone to renew their covenant. The Atonement is limited to people who want it.

[Amore Vero]

I am sorry this is, in my opinion, ridiculous and not expected or even particularly righteous behavior. I love my wife, we have been married for 20 years, and I would do anything for her (and I think she would for me.) I would gladly lay down my life for her. But if she left me (and it wasn't due to anything I had done) I don;t think I ahve the responsibility or that it is even a good thing that I pine away for the rest of my life hoping she would repent and come back to me. I would be broken hearted for the rest of my life - no question - and I think no matter what she did I would always love her and want what was best for her. But this idea that marrying again would be to break faith with her or my covenants - sorry, it sounds like you have been reading too many Jane Austen novels. NOt that I ahve the least concern, but I would forgive adultery, I think about the only thing that would probably take me a lifetime to forgive would be if she did something insane like killing our boys...I'll admit that would be tough to forgive...but sorry back on topic - I just think your idea of "true love" and the need to wait patiently for the rest of your life for them to come back - I strongly disagree.

OI, I totally understand your questioning & doubts on these things. I also wondered the same things at one time. I don't mind your questions or disagreeing at all. I completely understand how these things can seem not only ridiculous but down right scary, unless you see it in a new light.

I assure you I have never read a Jane Austen novel & my favorite readings are writings of the Prophets & the scriptures, where I learned much of these things from, for I had to know the truth about these matters, since I was forced & confronted with this very fork in the road & I needed to know which road to go down. Unfortunately the road less desired & traveled is the one with the greatest blessings, despite how hard it may seem, but it's not as bad as you might think, in fact, it's usually wonderful.

I'm not sure this is the place to go into all the reasons for why I believe these things. But it has to do with having an eternal perspective & really understanding the marriage covenant & sealing & it's incredible saving power. And understanding that everyone has to eventually repent, either in this life or the next.

Heavenly Father doesn't let anyone get away with abandoning a good spouse & remarry someone else, even if they somehow get in the temple to do it. It's not valid & someday they will have to (& be overjoyed with the chance to) return to the original spouse, once they fully repent & all their unrighteous desires are changed, if that spouse wants them back & has waited for them.

The bottom line is if we love our spouse enough to give up our whole life, a day at a time, to be able to be with them through all eternity once they have repented & they desire to make it all up to us. Would you stay faithful to your wife if she were in a coma for 20+ years? or had Alzheimers & didn't even know who you were? And you had to take care of her for years & years? With no love & companionship from her, just day in & day out service. It is the most exalting thing you could ever do, whether she is mentally, physically or spiritually ill.

When our spouse goes off the deep end & becomes abusive or adulterous or even abandons us, they just have forgotten who they are or who we are. They 'know not what they do'. It's just a 'spiritual' alzheimers. The adversary now controls their desires, thoughts, words & actions.

If you realize that if you don't keep your covenants to her (to have unconditional love -which means just what it says), then she will have to go to the Telestial Kingdom alone & single & tortured forever by knowing that she gave up her only opportunity to be with you & your children in the CK forever.

But if you had the power to save her from that torture would you? We must stop & realize what incredible pain & suffering & even eternal regret & sadness our unrighteous spouses will really have to go through in the next life.

And I believe once you both cross the veil you will realize how you knew each other for milleniums before this life & most likely chose each other before you even came to earth, because of your love for one another. Like we most likely knew & chose our parents & children. An eternal companion would be even more important to know before hand & choose. I believe many even promised to save their spouse if need be here on earth. Could you imagine getting back to heaven & not having kept that promise & now a spouse or child has to go to a lower kingdom forever & be single & away from the family members because we didn't keep our promise or covenants? Being alone for 50 years is nothing compared to the pain of feeling that for all eternity.

This life is a speck in time compared with eternity. If you really loved your wife & her welfare more than yourself & your own, you would do anything to save her to the CK, if she couldn't get there without your help. Of course you must 1st gain a testimony that you even have the power to save her to the CK, if she doesn't earn it on her own. But I do know that we do have that power, not only for our spouse but our children too, if we stay valiant to our covenants & faithful to them. True love is the most powerful thing there is & Christ possessed & demonstrated this love to earn us rewards we could never gain for ourselves. He only asks that we do the same for our loved ones on a smaller scale, which we can.

There is no greater joy than saving our errant spouse or child & no greater pain if we don't. And by giving our life, a day at at time, to save them, we save ourselves.

These things usually take alot of study & prayer to understand. I know I can't convince you of these things, but you seem like such a good man I believe you could easily get your answers about all this from Heavenly Father & further study.

As Elder Holland taught, True Love for a spouse is not even possible for human beings, without a further endowment from heaven, which can give us the strength & love & reason to endure whatever is necessary for our spouse's welfare.

But if we can't save our spouse, I agree, there is no reason to have or believe in unconditional true love. We would just stay in the marriage for as long as our spouse keeps their promises to love us & treat us right & as long as we are getting our needs met, or we would go try to find a new & righteous loving spouse, over & over as often as needed.

I don't know about Jane Austin, but I do believe in fairy tales. For we all come from royal parentage & we are destined to become Kings & Queens. I know that a valiant Prince can save his Princess from the 'slumber of death' (Jacob 3:11) or even from the clutches of devilish dragon, by the supreme power of Christlike true love. (And even Princesses can do the same if need be) I believe that's the greatest purpose of marriage, to help each other make it back to our Celestial Kingdom from whence we came.

[Rand]

Well done AV. Well done!

[Tetraman]

AV It sounds like you have been through some real trials in you life. I feel for anyone who has to go through such tribulation. Stay close to the Lord and things will work out for your good. I don't want to judge anyone for how they have dealt with such situations as I believe that each case is handled individually by God. I only want to relate my own experience.

My first wife broke her temple covenants to seek a more worldly lifestyle. We went through lots of counseling, most of which she refused to follow. Eventually she divorced me and went and lived with another man and after a few years married him. I was greatly troubled by this as I had never envisioned that such a thing could ever happen to me. I was very concerned that I had not done everything possible and would somehow come under condemnation.

Not long after the divorce, I had the most powerful revelation I've ever received. I had imagery put in my head along with unspeakable peace in my heart by which heavenly father revealed to me how much he loved me. I then turned the entire situation over to him, forgave my wife completely and was given the strength to handle life's burdens.

I felt strongly that was to give myself time to grieve for the loss and do all that I could to make sure I continued to provide for and teach my children. I really don't understand how this happened, but I was able to convince my wife that I should retain custody our two youngest children and that she would take the two older ones that were almost grown. I was as generous as I could afford to be with all of them and kept all my legal responsibilities.

I taught my children as they grew up that they were to love their mother and respect her. I made sure that I never said anything to degrade or complain about their mother. We also had a lot of discussions about choices.

I put my myself in the hands of the lord and was willing to do whatever he wanted me to do. I would have stayed single if that's what was right for me. About a year after the divorce I receive a strong prompting that I should start looking for another wife. The way I was led to my new wife made it obvious that the Lords hand was in it. We tell others that it was an "arranged" marriage.

We married in the temple and we have had wonderful blessing given to us. It's been a lot of work, but it's been joyous work. We have had two children together and they are the strongest little spirits I've seen. Fit for the time in which they were born.

I often wonder what will happen after this life. Will I be with both women? I personally don't feel so even though the first temple marriage was never annulled. I feel the marriage I'm in now will be eternal if we both live up to our covenants. I hope my former wife will repent some day, but I also feel that that is between her and the Lord and I have been removed from that responsibility.

[SpeedRacer]

Remember, all things in the temple are promises on the conditions of repentance. Until you have it sealed by the hold spirit of promise, it is just a condition, not certain. When someone is not faithful to the covenant, it is broken.

[Amore Vero]

Tetraman, I appreciate you sharing your story. I understand that Heavenly Father allows us to go either way when our spouse abandons us. He certainly gives us the choice to find a new spouse if we desire to.

[Amore Vero]

Remember, all things in the temple are promises on the conditions of repentance. Until you have it sealed by the hold spirit of promise, it is just a condition, not certain. When someone is not faithful to the covenant, it is broken.

The marriage covenant is actually 3-way & as long as God & just one spouse keep the covenant & stay faithful to the other spouse, the marriage still holds & the sealing remains unbroken. Prophets have taught that a wicked spouse does not have the power to end the marriage even by a divorce, remarriage or wickedness. For it requires both spouses to break their covenants & move on to someone new, to break the sealing & really end the marriage.

For as the Prophets teach, the wicked spouse is bound to their righteous spouse forever & ever, it's impossible for them to get away, nor would they want to once they repent & their heart is righteous again.

Unjustified divorce is invalid to God & as BY says, as good as a blank piece of paper. The divorced couple is still as married & sealed as they ever were. Unless the righteous spouse also wants the divorce too & breaks their covenant too by dating or remarrying.

But I agree that no marriage is valid unless it is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, but I believe that blessing can be bestowed upon the marriage here on earth even if just one spouse is presently righteous. For it's Heavenly Father's reward for staying valiant & faithful to an unrighteous spouse, which is very hard to do.

It is very rare that both spouses are righteous enough to earn the blessing of the Holy Spirit of Promise. Thus it is possible for just one spouse to earn it for both of them & seal the marriage forever, despite the wickedness of the other spouse. Otherwise why would anyone stay & suffer with an unrighteous spouse, as most people in & out of the church do & have always done, if it was all for nothing? Usually in most marriages only one spouse is righteous, while the other must later one day repent & become worthy of eternal marriage too.

[NoGreaterLove]

Sbsion, great comment. I agree. Give thanks to God in all things. A friend who served as secretary to an area presidency learned from them, as worthy Priesthood holders. the area president said many times, "God is in charge. What can we learn from this."

OI: I don't intend this to be too direct or to be contentious: you wouldn't do anything for her if you wouldn't tolerate that type of insult. It says you have limits. Christ did not. He went the whole way for the Father. His love for the Father was perfect. Job's love of God was perfect. Abraham's love of God was perfect. If we keep our covenants, even if our partner does not, we are showing love of the Father. Our covenant is with Him, not our mate.

Christ has his limits. Many will realize this when the die and wake up in Spirit Prison. Kinda of a divorce, wouldn't you say?

[Amore Vero]

Christ has his limits. Many will realize this when the die and wake up in Spirit Prison. Kinda of a divorce, wouldn't you say?

Christ may have limits to how much he can save us. But his unconditional love has no limits. It is those who wake up in Spirit Prison who have forced Christ through a divorce, not Christ divorcing them. Maybe that's what you meant.

[Amore Vero]

Here are a few quotes & references, but it generally takes much more study of all that is said by Prophets on the subject to get a full understanding of these things.

If Christ thought that divorce (or any wickedness) automatically ended the marriage, then why did he say that the divorced wife couldn't remarry or else she would be committing adultery? It appears he did not think that unjustified divorce had any effect on the standing of the marriage & that the couple was still married in his eyes.

"Whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication & shall marry another... commits adultery; because the woman is still, in God's eyes, wife of him who had divorced her."
Elder James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 484.

"It is a far more serious matter for a husband & wife to seek a separation than most seem to think. The words of the Lord as recorded in Matt. 19:3-9, should be carefully considered. I am convinced that the Lord will force some couples who separate, without justification after they have been sealed in the House of the Lord, back again to each other, or else they will lose their reward."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation 4:160-161.

"If a man is faithful & should his wife leave him & be married to another without his consent, there is no power in heaven or on earth that can prevent him from claiming her in the resurrection."
Brigham Young, CR Oct. 8, 1861.

"I have said a number of times, and I will say again, to you ladies who want to get a bill of divorce from your husbands, because they do not treat you right, or because you do not exactly like their ways. There is a principle upon which a woman can leave a man, but if the man honors his Priesthood, it will be pretty hard work for you to get away from him. If he is just & right, serves God & is full of justice, love, mercy & truth, he will have the power that is sealed upon him, & will do what he pleases with you.
When you want to get a bill of divorce, you had better wait & find out whether the Lord is willing to give you one or not, & not come to me. I tell the brethren & sisters, when they come to me & want a bill of divorce, that I am ready to seal people & administer my services, but when they undertake to break the commandments & tear to pieces the doings of the Lord, I make them give me something... for their foolishness. If you want a bill of divorce give me ten dollars, so that I can put it down in my book that such a man & such a woman have dissolved partnership. Do you think you have done so when you have obtained a bill of divorce? No, nor ever can if you are faithful to the covenants you have made. It takes a higher power than a bill of divorce to take a woman from a man who is a good man & honors his Priesthood. It must be a man who possesses a higher power in the Priesthood or else the woman is bound to her husband & will be forever & ever. You might as well ask me for a piece of blank paper for a divorce, as to have a little writing on it saying, "We mutually agree to dissolve partnership & keep ourselves apart from each other." It is all nonsense & folly; There is no such thing in the ordinances of the House of God; You cannot find any such law."
Brigham Young, JD 17:115-119. (Of course this would go both ways)

"There is no ecclesiastical law that you know anything about, to free a wife from a man to whom she has been sealed, if he honors his Priesthood."
Brigham Young, Discourses of B.Y., p. 196.

"You may just as well tear off a piece of your shirt tail & lay it by & call it a divorce so far as any good that piece of paper called divorce will do you."
BY, A Few Words of Doctrine, Oct. 8, 1891.

"No judge in this world in any court of the land can annul a marriage for time & all eternity. He may separate the husband & wife by legal enactments so far as this world is concerned, but he cannot separate that husband & wife so far as the next world is concerned. When the man & his wife lose their faith & go to the courts & get a separation, & then go out & marry according to the laws of the land, they are not culpable (guilty) before the law of the land, but they are before the kingdom of God.
And what the Savior says here in this revelation is absolutely true:..."Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, & shall marry another, committeth adultery, & whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."
Joseph Fielding Smith, CR Apr. 1961.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Amore: Could you NOT find such quotes about marriage past 1971? Or did you not search for them? Thanks.

[Amore Vero]

Amore: Could you NOT find such quotes about marriage past 1971? Or did you not search for them? Thanks.

/:) I was only looking for one's that show that a wicked spouse can't get away from a righteous spouse if the righteous spouse still wants the marriage to go on. They don't talk about this much anymore, but I feel these few do hint at it:

"You won't take five cents to heaven with you, not five cents. But, f you are the kind of man you ought to be, you will take her. Maybe it's the other way around - maybe she'll take you."
Pres. Hinckley, Pittsburgh Penn. Reg. Conf., Priesthood Leadership Session, Apr. 27, 1996.

Also Pres. Hinckleys promise, which appears to be talking to just one spouse & giving this promise:
"If you will make your 1st concern, the comfort, well-being & happiness of your companion, sublimating any personal concern, to that loftier goal, you will be happy & your marriage will go on through eternity."
Teachings of GBH, p. 328-329.

"After quoting Joseph Smith's famous quote on how valiant parents who keep their marriage covenants can save their unrighteous children in the next life, he closed by saying (& adding a new dimension to it) "If any of you have a child or 'loved one' in that condition, do not give up. Pray for them & love them & reach out to them & help them."
Pres. Hinckley, Jordon Utah South Regional Conf., Mar. 2, 1997.

[NoGreaterLove]

Whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication & shall marry another... commits adultery; because the woman is still, in God's eyes, wife of him who had divorced her."
Elder James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 484.

Great quote! This explains is in a nutshell! "except for fornication". Exactly. And modern day prophets have added to this list, which is there prerogative, being the mouthpiece or God.

Amore.
This is where you get yourself in trouble. You ignore this. It is just as true today as it was when Christ spoke it. The whole teaching has to be taken seriously. We can not just throw out the part we do not like.

[Amore Vero]

Whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication & shall marry another... commits adultery; because the woman is still, in God's eyes, wife of him who had divorced her."
Elder James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 484.

Great quote! This explains is in a nutshell! "except for fornication". Exactly. And modern day prophets have added to this list, which is there prerogative, being the mouthpiece or God.

Amore.
This is where you get yourself in trouble. You ignore this. It is just as true today as it was when Christ spoke it. The whole teaching has to be taken seriously. We can not just throw out the part we do not like.

I don't understand what you mean NGL. I never ignor that part, I have always said there are rare justified divorces, just as Christ & the Prophets teach.

I just don't believe that he wants us to divorce just because we are justified. I only believe that he is saying we can & it won't be adultery, but neither does he say it's a righteous thing to divorce & remarry just because one is justified.

Joseph Smith has taught that everyone's revelation must agree with what the scriptures say & never differ from previous revelation. So I don't know what you mean by they have added to the list.

[[email protected]]

Without getting into alot of detail - when my husband left, after going through a tough marriage and many instances of infidelity in which I was always told in Priesthood blessings that I was not released from my covenants. The last time he admitted to an affair we went to church court and again in a blessing I was told to keep my covenants and we went through an excommunication and I stood by his side and then about a year later after he was baptized again he left to go find work and never came back, he admitted to cheating on my again right after he got re baptized, the spirit whispered to me while I was praying that I was released from my covenants now. So I firmly believe if you get a confirmation from the spirit that you are released then you are released and it is perfectly fine to remarry.

[Rand]

I think you are all correct. AV, these covenants are very difficult to annul. I have great admiration for the stance you have taken. I think this is a little like the counsel in the DC on forgiving your enemy his trespasses. After, was it three times, the lord will deliver them into your hands to do what you will with them. If you choose to deal kindly with them after that, it will add to your rewards in the next life. Sorry, I don't have time to find the reference.