Israel

[AussieOi]

[I understand fully the differences here Col. Yet that lumping process seems to occur more times than not when the Israeli's are referenced here. Its like saying that I am an evil person because Obama is my President and Holder is my Attorney General. That is ridiculous. To implicate an entire nation of people because of the actions of some evil and conspiring men in govt. is beyond the pale. But the demonization process rolls along in the minds of some here.

You do have to admit that the Jews have a big bullseye painted on them around the globe. Just look at the way the United Nations responds whenever a dispute involving Israel come up. They are most often found to be in the wrong. Demonization of the Jews is alive and well around the globe no matter what Aussie thinks.

>>>>>>>>To implicate an entire nation of people because of the actions of some evil and conspiring men in govt. is beyond the pale[/b]
Ah the irony. page after page after page after page of just that...."they teach their children to hate" and so on, and then you come in and accuse us of doing exactly what yo uand your ignorance tag team are doing

Mark, no one reads these posts like Olmans and yours by Jeff Nyquist because our minds are already made up and it is apparent for all to see.
But the demonization process rolls along in the minds of some here. ....as you say

>>>>You do have to admit that the Jews have a big bullseye painted on them around the globe.
Jews, or Israel? I dont see any mass shootings or bombings or the like in Potts Point, Caulfield, Brooklyn, Florida, South Africa or Canada Mark.
And the point we make time after time is that guess who cops the blowback thanks the the policies of the Israeli (satanic) government? You got it, the Jews. Now who would want that?

>>>>>Just look at the way the United Nations responds whenever a dispute involving Israel come up.

You mean like calling a resolution asking them to stop terrorising a people for the acts of a few, that kind of thing?
Anyway, the US vetos that so its immaterial
Well invariably the dehuminisation of the state of Israel on Palestinians being illegal, inhuman, barbaric and their contravention of about 200 laws and agreements, plus ignoring about 200 UN resolutions, means jack.
But then you say they are just ani-semites and the land grabs are justified because god says they can have Palestine back because of a covenant he made with their mutual grandfather Abraham
I just love how you say the UN is commie and the US or Israel shouldn’t pay attention to it...until you want to rely on them to justify your illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan

>>>>>>>They are most often found to be in the wrong.
What does this mean?

>>>>>>>Demonization of the Jews is alive and well around the globe no matter what Aussie thinks

You are straw man playing Mark. This is no more about Jews as the suffering of Palestinians is about the suffering of Islam and you know that.

You are talking to the very wrong person about demonising Jews for a start

Seeking to stop the abuses of the innocents in any place is a good thing in itself. Hiding behind religion to defend the excesses of a barbaric military state is an old trick but no one falls for it anymore

[Oldemandalton]

Here is an Ensign Article by Cleon Skousen you may find informative.


The Birth of Modern Israel

W. Cleon Skousen



The way it happened seems incredible, but it did happen.

Nearly 2500 years ago the prophet Isaiah described in vivid detail how the Jews would return to their ancient homeland in the latter days. He said, “… they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.” (Isa. 61:4).

From the Lord’s point of view the reconstruction began in America, rather than Palestine. On June 15, 1841, Orson Hyde, an apostle of the restored church, wrote a letter to the Reverend Dr. Solomon Hirschell, the leading rabbi in England, describing how the first intimation from heaven had already been received that the rise of modern Israel was imminent. Here is what he wrote:

“About nine years ago [actually 1831], a young man … in whose bosom the Almighty had deposited many secrets, laid his hand upon my head and pronounced these remarkable words—‘in due time thou shalt go to Jerusalem, the land of thy fathers, and be a watchman unto the house of Israel; and by thy hands shall the Most High do a great work, which shall prepare the way and greatly facilitate the gathering together of that people.’”1

This part of the letter should not have surprised the rabbi, since at every Passover, and often in their daily prayers, the Jews solemnly expressed their supreme hope of redemption by saying: “Next year, in Jerusalem!”

They had been saying this ever since A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was demolished by the Romans and the Jews were scattered to the four corners of the earth.

However, the next part of Orson Hyde’s letter no doubt startled the rabbi:

“… in the early part of March, 1840, I retired to my bed one night as usual; and while meditating and contemplating the field of my future labors, the vision of the Lord, like clouds of light, burst into my view. … The cities of London, Amsterdam, Constantinople and Jerusalem, all appeared in succession before me, and the Spirit said unto me, ‘Here are many of the children of Abraham whom I will gather to the land that I gave to their fathers; and here also is the field of your labors. … The vision continued open about six hours, that I did not close my eyes in sleep. In this time many things were shown unto me which I have never written; neither shall I write them until they are fulfilled in Jerusalem.”2

We have no record of any reply from Rabbi Hirschell, but we do know what happened to Orson Hyde. A month after this great revelation, he and John E. Page were called during the April conference of the Church to fulfill a mission “to the Jews.” They were instructed to go to Palestine and dedicate that land for the gathering of the house of Israel. As it turned out, John E. Page went only as far as the east coast of the United States, but Elder Hyde continued alone and fulfilled this mission as the Prophet had instructed.

After a long and tedious excursion, Elder Hyde finally reached Jerusalem. There he prepared to dedicate that land in the exact way he had seen himself doing it during the vision. Here is the way he describes it:

“On Sunday morning, October 24 [1841], a good while before day, I arose from sleep, and went out of the city as soon as the gates were opened, crossed the brook Kedron, and went upon the Mount of Olives, and there, in solemn silence, with pen, ink, and paper, just as I saw in the vision, offered up the following prayer to Him who lives forever and ever.”3

This same citation then sets forth the entire prayer, written under inspiration on this significant occasion.

The land itself was barren, unproductive, and desolate. It had been under the heel of the Ottoman Turks since 1517, and only a true believer could have seen in its coastline swamps and naked, rockstrewn mountains the possibility of a promised land.

In fact, during 1807 a body of Jewish leaders had convened in Paris under the urging of Napoleon and assured the emperor that “the Jews had turned their backs forever on their separate nationhood [and] on their traditional hope for a return to Palestine.”4

Nevertheless, a completely different spirit began to gestate in the souls of other Jews. In 1839 the wealthy Italian-English Jewish leader, Moses Montefiore, who had married into the Rothschild family, visited Palestine and felt a tremendous urge to start “the gathering.” He felt some practical steps should be taken to set up Jewish settlements in Palestine.

But while he was thinking about it, the Lord inspired the Council of the Twelve to issue a notable proclamation just a year after the assassination of the Prophet. In it they said:

“… the Jews among all nations are hereby commanded, in the name of the Messiah, to prepare, to return to Jerusalem in Palestine; and to rebuild that city and temple unto the Lord:

“And also to organize and establish their own political government, under their own rulers, judges, and governors in that country.

“For be it known unto them that we now hold the keys of the priesthood and kingdom which is soon to be restored unto them.

“Therefore let them also repent and prepare to obey the ordinances of God.”5

By 1856 a small trickle of Jewish immigration was sufficient to encourage Sir Moses Montefiore to set up a Jewish-owned orange grove near Jaffa, which initiated what he hoped would be a return of the Jews to agriculture. Then he established, just west of the old city of Jerusalem, a Jewish settlement called Yemin Moshe, in his honor.

By 1868 Karl Netter, an Alsatian Jew, had joined with Adolfe Cremieux of France to create the Alliance Israelite Universelle. Its purpose was to build global unity among the Jewish people and give aid to those in need.

But all of this was too slow for Brigham Young. In 1873 he sent a special mission to Palestine that included George A. Smith of the First Presidency and Elders Lorenzo Snow and Albert Carrington of the Council of the Twelve. They were instructed to dedicate the land a second time. They were also told to bless the land “with fruitfulness, preparatory to the return of the Jews.”6

Before another decade the first aliyah (ascent or return) was well on its way. Bitter pogroms of the Jews were launched in Russia, uprooting thousands of Jews, many of whom looked toward Palestine. They called themselves the “Lovers of Zion.” One of the first pioneer groups of any size to reach Palestine was called the BILU, taken from the first Hebrew letters of the slogan, “House of Jacob, come ye and let us go.” Before the first wave of migration subsided, over 25,000 Jews had reached Palestine.

In many ways, however, this first aliyah was a tragic period. Most of the immigrants knew nothing about farming, and they had no idea what the swamps they had bought from the Arabs would do to them. Malaria and yellow fever struck them down unmercifully. No doubt the initial movement would have failed had it not been for a new energizing force from Europe called Zionism.

Zionism, or the idea of building a Jewish homeland in Palestine, received official impetus in 1884 when Dr. Leo Pinsker held an all-Jewish congress in Katowice (Kattowitz), Poland, to memorialize the work of Sir Moses Montefiore and to rally the Jews of the world to support the establishment of numerous agricultural settlements in Palestine. The results were mostly rhetoric, but it fertilized the idea of Zionism.

Then, in 1897, came the first major Zionist Congress at Basel, Switzerland, where a Jewish lawyer and journalist from Vienna, Dr. Theodor Herzl, hammered out the basic framework for a Jewish homeland. His idea was to purchase large tracts of land from the Arabs and get permission from the Turkish government to establish an autonomous or chartered territory in Palestine for Jewish settlement.

At this Zionist Congress the delegates under Herzl’s direction laid plans for a Hebrew university in Jerusalem, the creation of a Jewish national fund to purchase land, and the setting up of a Jewish world bank in London to finance colonization; they also designed a blue and white flag and adopted a national anthem. All of this for a country that did not exist!

The Turks, however, rejected Herzl’s plan. Well-meaning friends suggested the Jews settle elsewhere, perhaps in Uganda or El Arish. A British statesman even suggested Egypt. “Not Egypt,” replied Herzl; “we have been there once before!”

In 1903 a brutal pogrom broke out in western Russia, and in some cities the Jewish dead were piled in the streets like cordwood. Herzl literally worked himself to death going from one world capital to another seeking support for a new Jewish state where the refugees could flee. He died suddenly on July 3, 1904, at the age of 44. Today he lies buried on a peak overlooking Jerusalem.

It is interesting that Herzl’s primary opposition came from many western rabbis and some of the most wealthy and influential Jewish leaders who were absolutely opposed to the whole idea of Zionism. They called it treasonable. They said Judaism was a religious order, not a political movement. They even agreed that it was fine to have agricultural settlements in Palestine, but it was subversive to the Jewish image to identify the people with a political loyalty to Zion that would be considered a higher allegiance than that which they owed to the nation in which they held citizenship. This hostility toward Zionism persists in many Jewish circles even today.

Meanwhile, the second aliyah was well on its way, as Jewish refugees fled from Russia and Eastern Europe, with a good representation ending up in Palestine. And they were sorely needed. The plague of malaria and yellow fever had proven so devastating that Baron Edmond de Rothschild (who had replaced Moses Montefiore as the major financier of the Jewish settlements) urged his agents in Palestine to get the Jews to abandon whole projects, such as Huleh Valley (above the Galilee), and to settle elsewhere or go to Argentina. In reply Fischel Solomon said: “We came here before the great Philanthropist, and did so in response to God’s command. … We will not be moved—not by JCA [Jewish Colonization Association], nor by the Baron, but only by God himself, who brought us here.”7

It was from this stubborn spirit of total commitment that the seeds for the rise of modern Israel took their needed strength. By the time World War I broke out in 1914, there were approximately 85,000 Jews in Palestine, representing about 6 percent of the Jews in the world.

Toward the close of World War I the British ordered General Edmund Allenby to move out from the main British base in Egypt and overthrow the Turkish forces in Palestine. The prospect of the liberation of Jerusalem in the fall of 1917 therefore prompted the leaders of the Zionist movement to seek an assurance from the British government that provision would be made for a Jewish refuge in that region.

On November 2, 1917, Lord Balfour wrote to Lord Rothschild: “His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.” It was stipulated that in providing such a facility, nothing would be done to prejudice the civil and religious rights of non-Jewish residents nor disturb the rights and political status of Jews who were citizens of other countries.

Unfortunately, Britain had also made a number of commitments to the Arabs that, in time, were interpreted to be in conflict with the Balfour Declaration. The Jewish leaders had contemplated a bi-national population of both Arabs and Jews in Palestine but insisted that the migration of Jews from any part of the world must never be restricted.

At the same time, Dr. Chaim Weizmann (who became the first president of Israel) went to great lengths to see that the Arabs were granted the autonomy they had been promised. Emir Feisal, the principal Arab leader working with the British, acknowledged that Dr. Weizmann had been “a great helper in our cause.” He said he hoped “the Arabs may soon be in a position to make the Jews some return for their kindness.”8

If this warm working relationship between Jewish and Arab leaders could have been perpetuated, the history of modern Israel might have been far different. As it turned out, the Arabs felt they had been betrayed when Palestine was placed under British mandate and Syria was made a mandate of France. The Jews began to be looked upon as wards of Britain and a threat to Arab aspirations. Before long, hostilities had reached a point of explosion.

The first anti-Jewish riots broke out on April 4, 1920. They erupted again and again on the slightest provocation during the next twenty years.

There are several basic reasons why a confrontation developed between these two great peoples, both of whom are descendants of Abraham—the Arabs through Ishmael and Esau, the Jews through Jacob.

First, the Palestinian Arabs preferred the status quo of their older, simpler culture, whereas the Jewish refugees came primarily from Europe and wanted to introduce the fruits of modern industry, farming, sanitation, education, and cultural ideas.

Second, the Jews were purchasing large tracts of land from the Arabs (much of it malarial swamps or undeveloped wilderness) and were gradually turning them into prosperous farms for citrus crops, bananas, vegetables, and grain.

Third, the Arab Moslems accepted the Bible as a sacred book but did not agree that the Jews had any divine calling to return to Palestine. They believed the “return” of the Jews occurred in 538 B.C., when the Jews came back from their captivity in Babylon.

Fourth, the beautiful Dome of the Rock is one of the most sacred shrines in the entire Islamic or Moslem world, and since it is built on the site where it is believed Solomon’s temple once stood, the intent of the Jews to eventually build their temple again is interpreted as a direct threat to this famous Moslem shrine.

After World War II the tides began to run more swiftly toward an ultimate crisis in Palestine. During the war, 4,600,000 Jews had been destroyed under Hitler’s drive to exterminate the Jewish people. After the war the Jews were expecting to transport thousands of the survivors from the displaced persons camps to Palestine. However, the new Labor Party government in Britain would not allow it.

It was becoming apparent that Russia was seeking a foothold in the Mediterranean through an alliance with the Arab states, and the British authorities felt that the Arabs must be placated in every way possible so that they would not be tempted to move over into the Russian camp and thereafter cut off the rich oil resources on which Europe so completely depended. Stopping the further migration of Jews to Palestine became a top priority.

When the Jews found out that the Balfour Declaration had been virtually repealed, their protest became both vocal and activist. In fact, their resentment reached such a point that the British authorities finally announced that they were leaving Palestine, and the United Nations could take over any future responsibility for governing the region.

A U.N. commission thereupon made a careful study and recommended that Palestine be partitioned. They suggested that the Jews be given the area where their principal holdings were located and that the rest of Palestine be turned over to the Arabs.

The Jews agreed to the partition plan, even though the Arab population in their territory far exceeded the population of the Jews, and even though it greatly restricted the area for the settling of the thousands of refugees from Europe.

The Arabs, however, rejected the whole idea, and shortly after the U.N. announced its approval of the partition plan on November 29, 1947, guerrilla warfare broke out against the Jews. This warfare accelerated right up to the time the British left on May 14, 1948. Then the Arab nations of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq invaded Palestine with the announced objective of driving the Jews into the Mediterranean.

In spite of this, the Jews formally declared the new state of Israel to be a sovereign nation and immediately set about to defend every inch of the territory its people had occupied. At first the Jews fought with nothing but rifles, handguns, a few light machine guns, and several mortars. After a month, however, they were beginning to get heavy military equipment and welcomed a temporary truce to deploy this equipment to some of their weaker positions. When fighting broke out again, they not only succeeded in holding all of their own territory, but they also pressed forward to overrun strong enemy bases. By the early part of 1949, all of the Arab nations had agreed to an armistice.

During this war, one of the tragic developments was the refugee problem involving hundreds of thousands of Palestinian Arabs. This came about through the miscalculation of their leaders.

“As the end of the Palestine mandate drew near, the Arab states bordering the Yishuv [Palestine], began to issue warnings to the Arabs of Palestine; they were told to clear out, to leave a clear field for Arab military operations, to seek temporary refuge in neighboring Arab lands. According to Arab League propaganda, there would be sufficient opportunity for all émigrés to return, once the Jews had been driven into the sea.”9

This propaganda, plus the natural fear precipitated by the excesses of war by both sides, caused most of the Palestinian Arabs to flee by the hundreds of thousands, in spite of assurances by the Jewish leaders that they had nothing to fear if they would stay.

When the war was over and the Jews were not driven into the sea, these Palestinian Arabs found themselves unwanted guests among their own brethren. Placed in refugee camps by the various Arab nations, they became wards of the United Nations. However, about 100,000 Arabs in and around Nazareth who did not flee had a chance to see whether the Jewish leaders would keep their word. These Arabs became citizens of Israel, were invited to elect their own representatives, received government help in setting up their own schools, and, during the ensuing years, prospered. Jewish leaders had maintained from the beginning that Arabs and Jews could live and work together with minimal friction if both really tried.

In addition to the Arab refugee problem, there could have been a Jewish refugee problem. The Arab nations evicted over a million Jews from their various countries. These fled to Israel, many of them penniless. However, the Jewish leaders looked upon this tremendous increase in population as a great asset. The refugees were given special training and put to work helping to build Israel. Therefore, there were no Jewish refugee camps for the United Nations to feed. Within a very short time these people had all been assimilated.

The war of 1948–49 galvanized into reality the declaration of independence that David Ben-Gurion presented to the representatives of his people in Tel Aviv on the afternoon of March 14, 1948, just as the last remnants of the British military forces were pulling out. It stated:

“The State of Israel will be open to the immigration of Jews from all countries of their dispersion; will promote the development of the country for the benefit of all inhabitants; will be based on the principles of liberty, justice and peace as conceived by the Prophets of Israel; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens without distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture; will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations Charter.”

Specific portions of the declaration were addressed to the Arabs:

“In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions—provisional and permanent.

“We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighbouring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all. The State of Israel is prepared to make its contribution to the progress of the Middle East as a whole. …”10

So that was it. There would be other wars, other crises, but the rise of modern Israel had become a reality.



A well-known author and lecturer, Dr. Skousen served sixteen years in the FBI and four years as police chief in Salt Lake City. He is now professor of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University and serves in the Church as high councilor in Parley’s Stake in Salt Lake City.

Notes
1. Documentary History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 375.

2. Ibid., pp. 375–76.

3. Ibid., p. 456.

4. Howard M. Sachar, The Course of Modern Jewish History (Cleveland: World Publishing Company, 1958), p. 63.

5. Parley P. Pratt, Proclamation—April 6, 1845, Church Historian’s Office.

6. B. H. Roberts, Comprehensive History of the Church, vol. 5, p. 474.

7. David Ben-Gurion, Israel: A Personal History (New York: Funk & Wagnalls, 1971), p. 35.

8. William L. Hull, The Fall and Rise of Israel (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zan-Dervan Publishing Co., 1961), p. 139.

9. Sachar, p. 485.

10. Ben-Gurion, pp. 80–81.

http://lds.org/ensign/1972/05/the-birth ... l?lang=eng

[sbsion]

CLEON didn't understand or accept the depths of world conspiracies. I served on his BoD for years, he voted for Nixon, etc. etc. so, how can we accept ths writing?

[liberty_belle]

CLEON didn't understand or accept the depths of world conspiracies. I served on his BoD for years, he voted for Nixon, etc. etc. so, how can we accept ths writing?

Really? He didn't? In reading the Naked Capitalist, I kind of got the impression that he understood their to be a world conspiracy....hmmm, would love to hear more on this issue Sbsion

[Oldemandalton]

You'll have a long wait Liberty Bell. Sbsion only posts one sentence at a time. )

[Mark]

Mark, no one reads these posts like Olmans and yours by Jeff Nyquist because our minds are already made up and it is apparent for all to see.

Classic mate. No one...but.....you? =))

PS Hey Aussie if you ever decide to move to the land of the free and the home of the brave please please please I beg you to find a house near Stan the man alias sbsion so you could both be in the same ward. I promise if you will do that then I will give up the ocean and move out of CA and join you in some hicksville Utah town just so I can be in your same ward. They say laughter extends ones life so I know I will live at least a minimum of 10 years longer...

[sbsion]

You'll have a long wait Liberty Bell. Sbsion only posts one sentence at a time. )

this one is worth two Cleon didn't want to align himself with Henry Ford on the Protocols, so he went out a his way NOT too, the above quotes on Israel were his justifications. We differed a lot on this issue, if only he could have read Jacks book on "Awakening to...."#1 and #2, but, I don't think he would have changed his mind, he was still "hurting" from being fired as SLC chief of police, etc., we all have "egos" we protect. Anyhow, he believed Nixon's promises on Viet Nam, and came and told us at a board meeting, I was quit disappointed in him, a lot of history in this one, Cleon was a good guy, but, we all have our POV, I just disagree with him on this one thanks Mark, we all know where you STANd =))

[AussieOi]

Oh mark you are funny.
I sat on the ocean near your house for 3 hours just 2 miles away from you that day and you still wouldn't see me.
You're just a sniper.
Not a land of the brave sadly
At least some guy in a Hicksville Utah town DID see me.

[bbrown]

You know Aussie if you ever come on an Alaska cruise I'd like to meet you. We get a lot of Aussies on the ships and they tend to be more fun than most other groups!

On Israel, while I don't share your intensity on it I tend to agree with most of what you have to say about the nation of Israel, at least in their current state. Which is a change from the first time i argued with you about it 3 or 4 years ago. Then I started to read... Weren't the Saints told to buy up the land in Missouri? That way it was theirs legally, but if they took it from the inhabitants there was to be a curse on it? Interesting parallels. Then again it gets harder and harder to tell who exactly is telling the truth from distant lands I am not directly familiar with. In my own land it is pretty obvious what is going on, probably the same there!

[Oldemandalton]

ISRAEL'S COMING ERA OF PRICKLY PROSPERITY

According to the Prophets, the period through which Judah must pass between now and the coming of the Messiah is one of anguish and trouble mixed with unprecedented prosperity. On the one hand the land will become fruitful. There will be numerous cities and vast multitudes will gather within the borders of Israel until the people will say, "The place is too strait for me: give place to me that I may dwell."23

At the same time there will be periods of savage warfare and political unrest. In this connection the Prophet Joel has an ominous prophecy which is aimed directly at the Arab nations. He describes conditions as they exist when the Messiah comes and says:

"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the Lord, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

"Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land."24

This would clearly indicate that prior to the coming of the Messiah, Egypt and Edom (the name for the Arab peoples in ancient times) will have indulge themselves in further genocidal attacks against Judah. The consequences, according to this prophecy, will not be the annihilation of Israel, but the desolation of Egypt and Edom.

This prophecy implies, however, that Judah will feel the devastating force of these attacks and the circumstances will be such that innocent blood will be shed in their land. In 1967, Dayan restrained the Israeli armies from pursuing the Arab armies to their respective capitals. The Arab leaders learned nothing from this gesture, however, and were chomping at the bit for a "second round" almost before they had buried their 35,000 dead.

Obviously, future attacks on Israel would make restraint less and less likely. If the current trend of attacks continues in the same spirit of hate-intoxicated fury, the prophets are loud and clear as to what the Arab leaders may ultimately expect: oblivion. The Prophet Zechariah was as emphatic as the Prophet Joel. He said that not only "the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away," but "the pride of Assyria [Iraq of today] shall be brought down."25

Centuries ago, another great nation had a similar prophecy hanging over its head. Its capital was Nineveh. When Jonah delivered his prediction of total destruction and indicated that their fate was already in the prophetic computer, the king of Nineveh threw the whole city into mourning and sack cloth to supplicate the heavens for another chance. This is all that was necessary, the scripture says, to avoid the Sodom and Gomorrah fate which otherwise awaited them.

Now, who is the Jonah who will take the message to the Arabs today? Their fate is also in the prophetic computer unless one or many can reach them in time to persuade their leaders that the planned massacre which they are still trying to impose on the Jews is actually planned suicide for themselves. Anyone who has lived among the Arabs and learned to love them cannot help but deplore the stupidity of their leaders who seem to learn nothing from three successive defeats and are therefore unlikely to respond to the more gentle warnings from the ancient Prophets of God.

23. Isaiah 49:20.
24. Joel 3:18-19.
25. Zechariah 10:11.

Pages 271-273, Fantastic Victory: Israel's Rendezvous With Destiny, by W. Cleon Skousen

[sbsion]

yup, they have to pay the price of their inequity, and apparently they have to have an Armegeddon to do it, the anti-christ will awaken and be converted?

[Oldemandalton]

Sbsion, why does God save the Jews if they are so wicked? Why not let them be destroyed and have the "real" Jews come and build the 3rd temple?

[AussieOi]

Oldman, let me get this right...you do all this for FREE?

sheesh, if you contacted the I$raeli embassy and showed then your work I'm sure they'd add you to the payroll

[Oldemandalton]

AussieOi
Oldman, let me get this right...you do all this for FREE?

sheesh, if you contacted the I$raeli embassy and showed then your work I'm sure they'd add you to the payroll )

Got their phone number?

[AussieOi]

I'm sure they are reading it an laughing anyway.
You are a classic down-liner for someone, that's for sure

[Oldemandalton]

A new peace is needed

Now that the old peace is dead, we must quickly replace it with a new, realistic peace.

By Ari Shavit

First the old peace was lightly wounded. After Israel gave the Palestinians most of Gaza, the first bus blew up at Dizengoff Square. After Israel gave the Palestinians Nablus and Ramallah, buses started blowing up in downtown Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. And after Israel suggested that the Palestinians set up a sovereign state on most of the occupied territories, they responded with a wave of terror. And as suicide terrorists were running amok in our cities, it started to dawn on people that maybe there was something defective about the promise of a great peace.

Then the old peace suffered moderate wounds. After Israel withdrew from south Lebanon, a Shi'ite missile base was set up there, which threatens the entire country. And after Israel withdrew from the Gaza settlements, the area became an armed Hamastan that continually attacked the south.
Both of these bold, unilateral and justified withdrawals yielded difficult results. When Qassam rockets fell on Sderot and Grads started landing in Ashdod and Fajr missiles hit Haifa, there started to be butterflies in our stomachs regarding what we might expect after the really big withdrawal.

After that, the old peace was seriously hurt. Tzipi Livni sat with Ahmed Qureia (Abu Ala ) for a full year, but Qureia signed nothing. Ehud Olmert offered Jerusalem to Mahmoud Abbas, but Abbas just disappeared. The fact that the moderate Palestinians were turning their backs on the most generous peace offerings Israel had ever made raised gloomy suspicions about their intentions. Were they really willing to divide the country into two national states that would live side by side with one another?

Finally, the old peace was critically injured. After withstanding an endless number of blows, even reasonable, moderate Israelis lost their faith in reconciliation. Even though they were still prepared to hand over the territories and divide Jerusalem, they sensed that there was no one to hand over the territories to, or with whom to divide Jerusalem.

That's why they abandoned the diplomatic agenda and started to address the socioeconomic agenda. They had lost the passion that enabled them to battle the right and the settlers. The Israelis' despair of ever achieving peace was no less a blow to peace than the blow dealt to it by Palestinian intransigence.

Now the old peace is dead. Really dead. The Islamic revolution in Egypt has removed the southern anchor of that promised peace. The murderous oppression in Syria has neutralized its northern guarantor, and the gradually warming relationship between Fatah and Hamas eliminates its central axis.
Anyone who observes the reality that has emerged around us now understands what was not fully understood a year ago: That the Arab awakening has killed the diplomatic process. In the coming years, no moderate Arab leader will have enough legitimacy or power to sign a peace agreement with Israel. What we've yearned for since 1967 and what we believed in since 1993 simply isn't going to happen. Not now, and not in this decade.

The confirmed death of the old peace is one of the most serious developments of 2011. Without a hope for peace, there is a greater risk that the Palestinian front will deteriorate. Without a peace process, there is a greater risk of an eruption in the Middle East. Without peace on the horizon, the occupation becomes more entrenched and threatens to bury us all.

That's why the death of the old peace requires some creative thinking about a new peace - a peace that won't be imminent, but gradual. A peace that won't be final, but partial. A peace that will not necessarily be based on signed agreements. A peace that will learn lessons from the death the old peace and will adapt itself to a new, stormy, historic reality.

This new peace won't be the peace of our dreams. It won't be the peace that puts an end to the conflict. It will not even be a peace that ends the occupation.

But perhaps this new, modest peace will enable us to forge a path through the storm, to manage the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and somewhat abate it. This new peace could provide Israel's center and left with a new, relevant diplomatic agenda. Now that the old peace is dead, we must quickly replace it with a new, realistic peace.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... d-1.411838

[Oldemandalton]

Bro. Skousen speaks of the Jews and the nation of Israel in Prophecy. Well worth listening to.



Part 4. Why Messiah was not recognized first time. Who is the Jew’s Messiah Ben Joseph? Orson Hyde receives a vision and calling.



Part 5. Elder Orson Hyde dedicates the Holy Land for the return of the Jews. 1948 War. Refugees. 1967 War. Promised not to be driven out again.



Part 6. Speaks of the Arab and Jews being converted together. How the Jews are preparing for the Temple. Archeological digs.



Part 7. More on the Temple Mount and a tunnel.

[Oldemandalton]

God had a hand in establishing the Nation of Israel.






Ezra Taft Benson, Of the Council of the Twelve Apostles, Conference Report, April 1950


My beloved brethren and sisters: If I may have an interest in your faith and prayers and a portion of the Spirit of the Lord, I desire to give expression to a few thoughts which I have had in my heart since returning from the shores of war torn Europe some three years ago.

A MIRACULOUS DRAMA

I should like to speak with reference to a rather miraculous drama that is taking place today before our very eyes. In large measure it is unobserved, particularly by spiritual leaders, and yet it has been predicted by prophets anciently thousands of years ago, and in modern times has been referred to frequently by Latter-day prophets during the past one hundred and twenty years.

In spiritual matters mankind seems inclined to worship the past and ignore new revelation of the present. People generally revere prophets dead and persecute or ignore the living while disregarding current fulfillment of ancient and modern prophecy. This condition was evidenced in the Meridian of Time as the people proclaimed Moses and Abraham and rejected the greatest of all prophets -- yea, even the Redeemer of the World. In large measure the same spirit characterizes the present.

This great event of which I speak is one of the signs of the times, and is very important, it seems to me, particularly to all Christian people. It is transpiring in a small strip of country about one hundred and ten miles long and fifty to sixty miles wide, in an area about the size of the state of Vermont. This little section has a population of approximately three million, divided as follows: about 1,700,000 Arabs; approximately 140,000 Christians and other relatively minor sects; and about 1,000,000 descendants of Judah, the son of Jacob.

The number of Jews has multiplied in recent years in this area in a rather remarkable manner. Plans are underway for the incorporation of about a million and a half more during the immediate months ahead, and projected plans call for an eventual population of some four million in this small area.

This one and a half million to be added during the next few months according to plans, will bring approximately two hundred thousand Jews from displaced persons' camps throughout war-torn Europe; about seven hundred thousand other European Jews; some six hundred thousand now living in Moslem countries; and approximately one hundred thousand from other continents.

In connection with this great drama, it seems to me that the words of the Lord through Isaiah are being fulfilled again, namely that in the last days the Lord would proceed to do a marvelous work and a wonder, that the wisdom of their wise men should perish, and the understanding of their prudent men should be hid. ( See Isa. 29:14).

THE JEWISH PROBLEM

While in Europe in 1946, when mention was frequently made in the European papers of the Jewish problem, I received a comment from one of our great industrial leaders in this country who is a student of this particular problem, in which he said the only salvation the Jew has is to be as good a citizen as he possibly can of whatever country he is a resident.

Then later, one of our prominent business leaders quoting a high church authority whose church numbers into many millions in the South American countries, stated that the Jewish people would do their cause much more good if they attempted to move their people from places where they are not wanted to places where they are wanted, for example, South America, where there is ample room.

As Latter-day Saints, familiar with ancient and modern prophecies, we of course do not agree that some other more suitable place should be and will be found for the descendants of Judas. We believe in the over-ruling power of Providence in the affairs of men and nations. We believe that the Old Testament prophets clearly predicted the dispersion and scattering of Israel and the eventual lathering of Judah in the land given to their fathers.

LACK OF WISDOM

Some of our magazines have commented editorially on this same problem. I have before me a quotation made in 1948 from one of our most popular magazines and reprinted in the New York Herald Tribune, which has a wide circulation through their European edition printed in Paris, in which the author states:

What the Jews really need is not a national state, but the right sort of world. "If the nations carried out the provision in the United Nations charter for universal respect for, and observance of, human rights, and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion,' it would do far more to solve the Jewish problem than any multiplication of the Jewish population in Palestine.

In 1949, about a year ago, the United States News and World Report commented on the miscalculations of government officials and military experts with reference to the outcome of the struggle then being waged in Palestine, and reported that the "prophecies of the military experts, in particular, have had to be revised." Then it continued by outlining the predictions of military authorities in our own country and in Great Britain particularly, to the effect that it was only a matter of a very brief time until the Jews would be overcome and be wiped out and "the Arabs would win quick control of Palestine. Now," the article continues, "these official but private forecasters are in a state of confusion," and the "U. S. and Britain, as a result, have to adjust their diplomacy, their military strategy to this fact of a strong Israel in the midst of Arab weakness.

It seems as though this probably is one more evidence of the fact that the wisdom of the wise shall perish. The prophecies of economists, would be statesmen, and military experts fail, while those of the Lord through his prophets are vindicated.

An interesting sidelight on this recent development is the fact that many of the descendants of Judah who have assembled in Palestine seem to look upon the events of the last few months as being nothing short of miraculous. It is a common comment among them that victory, in their eyes at least, was a miracle which cannot be explained in purely military terms. Some of our recently returned missionaries from Europe who have visited that land bring back the same report.

PROPHECIES CLEAR

Now the prophecies are very clear with reference to the dispersion and scattering of Israel and Judas. Moses, Ezekiel, Amos, Jeremiah, and others made clear predictions that Judah would be scattered. The Master referred to it when asked by his disciples for a sign as to the end of the world. The Lord said,

And they [referring to the Jews] shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke 21:24.)

Jeremiah made it clear that they, the Jews, would be persecuted with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence and that the Lord would deliver them to be removed to all kingdoms of the earth to be a curse, and an astonishment, and a hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them:

Because they have not hearkened to my word, saith the Lord. (Jer. 29:18-19.)

Is it possible that the times of the Gentiles are nearing their fulfillment, that the time is approaching when the gospel will be carried to the descendants of Judah? I think one of the saddest chapters in history is the account of the dispersion and suffering of Judah.

SUFFERINGS OF JUDAH

I have before me a quotation of Will Durant in his book, The Story of Civilization, in which he states that "no people in history fought so tenaciously for liberty as the Jews, nor any other people against such odds." He says further, "No other people has ever known so long an exile, or so hard a fate."

Then referring to the siege of Jerusalem under Titus, lasting for 134 days, during which 1,110,000 Jews perished and 97,000 were taken captive: he states that the Romans destroyed 987 towns in Palestine and slew 580,000 men, and a still larger number, we are told, perished through starvation, disease, and fire.

Nearly all Judea was laid waste. So many Jews were sold as slaves that their price fell to that of a horse. Thousands hid in underground channels rather than be captured. Surrounded by Romans they died one by one of hunger while the living ate the bodies of the dead.

Scarcely eight thousand Jews were left in all of Palestine. And even their banishment and scattering didn't end their persecution. Efforts were made to drive them from various countries. Some nations made an effort to banish them completely. They were accused of causing the "Black Death" that spread through Europe in 1348, and many Jews were crucified therefor.

I have said nothing regarding the Crusades and the dastardly deeds perpetrated in the name of Christianity upon the remaining Jews in Palestine. Yes, the prophecies regarding the dispersion and the suffering of Judah have been fulfilled. But the gathering and reestablishment of the Jews is also clearly predicted,

GATHERING OF ISRAEL

The gathering has three phases: the gathering of Israel to the land of Zion, the American hemisphere; the return of the Ten Tribes from the countries of the north: and the reestablishment of the Jews in Palestine as God's chosen people.

This miracle of the return of the Jews was to be one of the events to precede Christs second coming, and the scriptures are very clear with reference to this fact. Isaiah said that they shall gather "the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth" and "set them in their own land, that they will "build the old waste," and "repair the waste cities." (See Isa. 11:11-12.)

Jeremiah, who predicted so clearly their dispersion, also states that the Lord will "cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it," and "build them, as at the first." (Jew. 30:3; 33:7.)

The prophets of the Book of Mormon even more clearly predict the conditions under which they will gather. These prophets also foresaw the time when they would begin to believe in Jesus Christ, that the kings of the Gentiles would be as nursing fathers and their queens nursing mothers in helping to bring about their return. These prophets make it clear that eventually the fullness of the gospel will be carried to Jerusalem and to the descendants of Judas.

In our day, in that first visit of Moroni to the Prophet Joseph, mention was made that the "dispersed of Judah would be gathered from the four corners of the earth." Thirteen years later, when Moses delivered the keys for the gathering of Israel and the Kirtland Temple was dedicated, the Prophet Joseph made further reference to the promises made to Judah and appealed to the Lord that the time may soon come when the children of Judah would return to the land promised to their father, Abraham.

In some of the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants. particularly the 133rd Section, reference is also made to the fact that the elders would go to the nations of the earth, to the Gentiles first and also to the Jews, that the Jews would "flee to Jerusalem," and that "Judah, after their pain shall be sanctified." (D. & C. 133:8, 13, 35.)

DEDICATION OF PALESTINE

As Latter day Saints, from the very inception of this latter-day work, we have had a deep interest in this group of our Father's children, the descendants of Judah. One hundred and ten years ago, at this very conference, two of the elders of the Church, Elders Orson Hyde and John E. Page, were called to go to the land of Palestine and dedicate it for the return of the descendants of Judah.

Ten years before, the Prophet Joseph had predicted on the head of Orson Hyde that in due time he should go to Jerusalem, the land of his fathers, and be a watchman to that people. History tells us that Elder Hyde did go and dedicate the land in 1841, and in 1873 Elder George A. Smith went to that land and again dedicated it for the return of Judas.

In Elder Hyde's prayer of dedication on the Mount of Olives, he prayed that the barrenness and sterility of the land would be removed, that springs of water would burst forth, that the land would become fruitful again, that the Lord would subdue their unbelief and "incline them to gather in upon this land." He also prayed that God would inspire the kings of the earth to help bring about the return of Judah.

Other prophecies were made in connection with this event. Great Britain was referred to particularly as one of the nations which would play a very prominent part in helping to bring this about. And almost immediately following the visit of George A. Smith to this land, organizations began to come into existence, the purpose of which was to sponsor the return of the Jews to the land of Palestine.

PROPHECY OF WILFORD WOODRUFF

At about this same time, President Wilford Woodruff uttered a very important prophecy, prayer, and testimony with reference to this people, in which he said,
. . . the Lord has decreed that the Jews should be gathered from all the Gentile nations where they have been driven, into their own land, in fulfillment of the words of Moses. their law-giver. And this is the will of your great Elohim, O house of Judah. and whenever you shall be called upon to perform this work, the God of Israel will help you. You have a great future and destiny before you and you cannot avoid fulfilling it you are the royal, chosen seed. and the God of your father's house has kept you distinct as a nation for eighteen hundred years, under all the oppression of the whole Gentile world. You may not wait until you believe on Jesus of Nazareth, but when you meet with Shiloh your king, you will know him; your destiny is marked out, you cannot avoid it. (Wilford Woodruff, Matthias F. Cowley, p. 509.)

Then he said further that the time would come when the armies of the Gentiles would be gathered against them, but he promised further that
the time is not far distant when the rich men among the Jews would be called upon to use their abundant wealth to gather the dispersed of Judah and purchase the ancient dwelling places of their fathers in and about Jerusalem, and rebuild the holy city and temple. (Ibid.)

It is rather significant that up to 1948 more than seven hundred million dollars had been expended by American Jews alone in helping to bring about the fulfillment of this prophecy by President Wilford Woodruff. The part that Great Britain played in the liberating of Palestine from Turkish rule is a matter of history which occurred during World War I in a remarkable manner, Then Lord Balfour, secretary of foreign affairs for the British government, made a very significant statement of policy to the effect that his Majesty's government would view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object."

This statement of policy was later supported by the Congress of the United States and was endorsed by President Wilson and all of his successors that it is the policy of our own land to look with favor on the establishment of a national home for the descendants of Judah in Palestine.

RETURN OF THE JEWS

So today, my brothers and sisters, in fulfillment of these ancient and modern prophecies, a great drama is being enacted in Palestine. The Jews are returning as one of the events of the last days. Resources are being built up through reclamation, rehabilitation, and modernization.

I read the other day of one authority who stated that there is more scientific "know-how" concentrated today in Palestine than in any similar area upon the face of the earth. I wonder if there isn't purpose behind it. I noted, too, in the report of the Anglo American Commission which was made of their study in 1946, that they commented that considerable numbers of the Jews are being converted to Christianity and that their attitude toward the Christ as the Redeemer of the world is rapidly changing. There has been much confusion over the Palestine question -- much talk of division of the land, of quotas, import restrictions -- but out of it all I cannot help feeling that we will see a complete fulfillment of the prophecies which have been made regarding this people. These prophecies are in rapid course of fulfillment before our very eyes today.

PERSECUTION OF JEWS

While in Europe, traveling through the war-torn countries, I was deeply impressed with the fact that the Lord had used, as a means of prodding the Jews and bringing about a fulfillment of his purposes, legalized persecution under the great and terrible Nazi program. The Jews were persecuted and driven, I presume, like no other people under heaven

I remember standing on the ruins of what was the largest Jewish ghetto in Europe, in the Jewish section of Warsaw, Poland, in August 1946. There we were given a description of what had transpired as being somewhat typical of that which had gone on in various parts of Europe through the establishment of the medieval ghetto.

Here 250,000 descendants of Judah had lived prior to the war. Under the Nazi rule, through forced labor, they were required to build a wall around the ghetto. Later some 150,000 Jews from other parts of Europe were brought into that area. Then finally the entire section was destroyed, wiped out by bombing after the people had been robbed and ravaged.

As we stood on the crumbled brick and mortar and the rubble some fifteen feet deep, with only the spire of one burned synagogue showing -- no other building in that vast area -- we were told by the guide that some two hundred thousand bodies, it was estimated, still remained under the rubble of those once great buildings in this section of Warsaw.

We visited some of the concentration camps and the crematoriums where it is estimated, six million of the sons and daughters of Judah lost their lives, reducing their world population from seventeen to eleven million.

DETERMINATION TO RETURN

We were impressed almost to tears as we visited some of these wanderers, these persecuted and driven sons of our Heavenly Father, to find how doggedly they were determined to return to Palestine. Ofttimes, as they would come into relief agencies to get temporary help, we would ask them why they did not settle nearby. Sometimes they were invited to stay. But they had one desire, and that was to return to the land of their fathers.

I recall that a survey was made by UNRRA, United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration, in which they interviewed 3,629 Jews in displaced persons' camps to determine what they would like to do if they were given their freedom to move and locate as they pleased. Of this number, 3,619 indicated that they would like to go back to Palestine. Nine of them expressed a desire to come to the United States, and one to Australia. This desire -- which is almost a passion -- was so great that it was as strong as life itself.

Of course, much of the movement then was done through the underground and by smuggling. I hold in my hand a short clipping, one of many we took from the papers in London. This one is entitled, "One Hundred Jew Ships Now." It is taken from the London Evening News, November 5, 1946. It is an Associated Press dispatch and reads:

British Naval Intelligence Officers in Jerusalem revealed today that Jewish underground has bought at least one hundred ships, many paid for with U. S. funds to carry refugees to Palestine from southern European ports.

Crews are promised 10 a head for each refugee smuggled into Palestine.---A.P.

FUTURE EVENTS

Yes, my brethren and sisters, this great drama goes on before our very eyes, in large measure unnoticed by the Christian world. One hardly ever hears reference to the prophecies regarding Judah's return. Yet, the promises are clear that it would be one of the great events of the last days. And, of course, we know from modern revelations and prophecies that much more is yet to occur. Read the fourteenth chapter of Zechariah and the eleventh chapter of Revelations with reference to other great events that are yet to come, affecting directly this chosen people, the House of Judah. Eventually their city will be encompassed by Gentile armies. Yes, during their last great struggle, the Master will make his appearance as the Mount of Olives cleaves in twain for their protection.

Then, no doubt, will be realized the fulfillment of the glorious statement made by the Lord in the Doctrine and Covenants through the Prophet Joseph with reference to Judah, which I read in conclusion:

And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in twine hands and in thy feet?

Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.

And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king. (D. & C. 45:51-53.)

God help us, my brothers and sisters, to realize the importance of these great and stirring events as signs that the second coming of the Master is approaching rapidly, and may they be the means of emphasizing to us the importance of putting our own houses in order, maintaining the faith, and doing all in our power to help further this glorious work of the latter day, I pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1950, p.71-79

[AussieOi]

dog >>> tail

Mark. Yes, of course god had a hand in establishing Israel.. who ever denies that?
Yes, of course they have promises, jut like Abrahams children also have promises
But lets go back to the scripture
Where does "gathered" = genocide the local inhabant who ALSO have a promise?
Oh, I know, America
ephraim comes in and commits genocide over the local inhabitants (joseph/ lamanite/ manassah?)
israel comes in and commits genocide over the local inhabitants (abraham, ishmael, possibly even judah- I mean who knows the actual bloodline of todays palestinians)

you always love the scriptures which talk about this great gog and magog armageddon dont you

but what about the one that says GOD will bring the enemies unto israel and he will purge israel and then save true israel?

about christ calling them the synagogue of satan?

to be honest, they havent gathered that much have they?
other than a few extremists does anyone gather still?

there are more jews USA than Israel

and then those there dont appear to be overly observant

but dog and tail again...who is a jew, vs who is actually "JUDAH"

[Rass922]

Destruction of Jerusalem

DGMFrancesco_Hayez.jpg (91.84 KiB) Viewed 1164 times

Why is the USA playing chicken with WWIII by always threatening Iran? Are Gentile politicians really that crazy about Israel? Or could it be that thanks to American corporate greed shipping all our factories out of America to China or India, we have no industry left but the military industrial complex? I have never seen so many young people enlisted in the military. Of course, no one else is hiring. Let's face it, without all these endless wars "for Israel," Occupy Wall Street would not be the farce it is right now.

[7cylon7]

Did you realize that Israel, among many things, is really just a UN base set up by which TPTB so they can control the middle east, right. Do we understand this? Why do you think the US supports Israel so much? Plus, these people, TPTB, want to make Israel the world capital. They want to put Solomon's temple (freemason) back up and then use it to declare themselves god on earth.

Do you not know that the UN established Israel in the first place in 1947 by commandment?

TPTB are using the Jews as pawns in their game. They are the synagog of Satan. The Jews who are really not Jews.


This is why the prophets have stated time and again. Mysterious are the way of the lord and God's ways are not man's ways. God is in control and gets his work done through good and evil people. The Lord declared many many times that the evil punish the evil. How does this happen. Many falsely believe that the lord just pulls back and lets the two at each other. Which may be the case in many instances however, many times the Lord can direct their intentions for his purpose. For example, the establishment of Israel again. Evil men set it up (UN) for an evil purpose (a military base to control the middle east from) yet in the end the Lord will be crowned the true king of Israel at the proper time and the entire nation will be swept clean of all TPTB and will be converted unto Christ in one day. Just as the US will be cleansed or destroyed in one day.

Cheers.

[Oldemandalton]

7cylon7
Did you realize that Israel , among many things, is really just a UN base set up by which TPTB so they can control the middle east, right. Do we understand this? Why do you think the US supports Israel so much?

Israel is a UN base? =)) The UN is one of the biggest Anti-Israel/Jewish organizations out there, 7clyon7. The PLO, Nazis and White Supremacists are not much worse!








The US has supported Israel in the past, not much recently though, because America was established under Judaeo-Christian principles, they are the only democracy in the Middle East , and because of the many ties between our two countries.

Plus, these people, TPTB, want to make Israel the world capital. They want to put Solomon's temple (freemason) back up and then use it to declare themselves god on earth.

Jerusalem as the world capital? =)) That is a good one. =))


If your not pulling my leg, when is that supposed to take place and how?

Do you not know that the UN established Israel in the first place in 1947 by commandment?

Commandment, inspiration of the Holy Ghost and fulfilment of prophecy, yes I agree. See Pres Benson's talk above and Elder Legrand Richards' quote below.

TPTB are using the Jews as pawns in their game. They are the synagog of Satan. The Jews who are really not Jews.

“Synagogue of Satan” is a favourite anti-Semitic slur used by the uninformed. It is a misinterpretation of scripture used to attack Jews and other religions:

The ‘Synagogue of Satan’ you are referring to is in Rev 2:9, 3:9 and is a favourite scripture of ‘Anti-s’ and is taken way out of context.

The Book of Revelations was specifically written to seven Churches, branches, of the Church of Jesus Christ, not the Jews, who were apostatizing at that time and also to us today. It is not describing the condition of the Jews today and the only ones who use it against them are anti-Semites (not that you are). ‘Synagogue of Satan’ has also been used by Protestants to disparage Catholics and even Anti-Mormons against us.

If it were true that the Jews of Israel were not true ‘Jews’ then wouldn’t a modern prophet or apostle mention it even once while speaking of the ‘synagogue of Satan’? None have. None will because it if false and I would say evil because it plays into the hands of Satan and those who want to destroy Israel .

James E. Talmage makes a reference to the ‘synagogue of Satan’ as a church in apostasy, not to the Jews of today:

He has expressed himself with regard to the churches that are built by man and has said they shall be overthrown. Indeed he has applied strong terms to some of those churches, or to church organizations in general, that have been brought into being by man. Read his words to John the Revelator. See what he means by the synagogue of Satan to which some of the people belonged. Read what he has said about the great and abominable church, the mother of abominations. The church as such may be wholly corrupt because of the false claims that are being made for it, and yet within that church as members there may be people who are doing their best. They have been deceived. As to the degree of culpability that will be charged up to them for their having become subjects of deception, we may not be able to judge. Elder James E. Talmage, Conference Report, October 1928, Afternoon Meeting, p.120-121

3:9 synagogue of Satan. New Testament scholar Metzger comments: "Since John himself had been born a Jew, we must not take the expression `those of the synagogue of Satan' (3:9) in an anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic sense. The synagogue at Philadelphia was criticized, not for being Jewish, but for being hostile to Christians." Donald W. Parry and Jay A. Parry, Understanding the Book of Revelation , p.47-48
In the Contributor, a Church Magazine for the youth describes the conditions in Smyrna / Philadelphia and why John made the ‘synagogue of Satan’ accusation:

The faithful in Smyrna were not only poor, but were evidently under the persecution of the Jews, for the message says, "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Calumnies and accusations were preferred against the Christians by the Jews, but the Judge of all the earth calls them blasphemies, evil speakings against Himself. And yet he does not hasten to avenge, but lets the darkness deepen, and the storm increase. But he warns them to live above the present, and to hold fast by what they possess, their faith, their true riches. "Fear none of those things ye are about to suffer: the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days." The storm soon broke, Polycarp their aged bishop refused to flee, until his flock urged him, for their sakes. His hiding place in the suburbs of the city, was discovered by torturing a child to reveal it. His captors carried him back in triumph. Standing in the crowded amphitheater, before the Roman magistrate, he was asked by the judge, who like a second Pilate, wished to release him, "Wilt thou curse Christ, and I will set thee free!" Mark the old man's faithful answer, "Eighty and six years have I served, and He has never done me wrong; how then can I curse him my King and my Savior!" His sentence was passed; the Jews collected wood from the baths, and workshops, and heaped the pile.

Calmly divesting himself of his garments he mounted the stake, the yells of the crowd were stilled by the calmness of the venerable man, and they heard his last words-words that proved he remembered the message he had received for his congregation, for, "he was faithful unto death."

…To the Christians of Smyrna the Lord promised that "their enemies should not prevail against them;" but to the church in Philadelphia he gave a greater promise, "Behold I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." And we do not find any persecution reaching Philadelphia. The Contributor, Volume 9

Calling Jews the ‘synagogue of Satan’ is taking the scriptures out of context and playing into the hands of Satan and Anti-Semites and spreading their intolerance.


The Jews ARE Jews which has been proven by Science, history, scriptures, and modern prophets. Saying otherwise is just perpetuating myths.

This is why the prophets have stated time and again.

Which time, in context?

Mysterious are the way of the lord and God's ways are not man's ways.

They are a mystery to you because you’re warping scripture to fit your myth.

God is in control and gets his work done through good and evil people. The Lord declared many many times that the evil punish the evil. How does this happen. Many falsely believe that the lord just pulls back and lets the two at each other. Which may be the case in many instances however, many times the Lord can direct their intentions for his purpose. For example, the establishment of Israel again. Evil men set it up (UN) for an evil purpose (a military base to control the middle east from) yet in the end the Lord will be crowned the true king of Israel at the proper time and the entire nation will be swept clean of all TPTB and will be converted unto Christ in one day. Just as the US will be cleansed or destroyed in one day.

God does not inspire evil men to do His bidding. It is Satan who does so. What God does is withdraw blessings which allow evil men to punish the unrepentant. An example would be when the Nephites drifted from the gospel they would lose the protection of God and the Lamanites would then wage war upon them.

I have shown repeatedly with scriptures and the words of modern Apostles and Prophets that God established the nation Israel and has protected her through 70+ years of wars and terrorism and will continue to do so till the very end. He will send His Son to personally save the Jews and Israel from the armies of the world in the Last Days. God has not forgotten His people of Judah as many on this forum try to deny. The lies and deceptions of Satan do not win in the end. Those who spread them will have to answer to God at the judgement seat for the pain and suffering they have caused to the innocent.

How did Hitler get tens of millions of Germans to acquiesce and even help in the murder of millions of innocent men women and children? The same way Satan is doing it again in our day, with lies, distortions, and myths and then having “useful idiots” spread it to each country, state, city and neighbourhood. The war of extermination of Israel/Jews by Gog will be the Second ‘Holocaust’. Ezekiel saw the world stand by and let it happen. Why? Because of the Satan’s lies and hatred which is growing increasingly every day and will burst forth when Israel hits the Iranian enrichment facilities.





The Lord to Fight Judah's Battles

Legrand Richards, "Israel! Do You Know?"

.....
The Lord has even declared that He would fight their battles, for He has said, through His Prophet Zechariah:

Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. . . .

In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:2-3, 8-10.)

This clearly has reference to the events which shall precede the second coming of the Messiah, when the Jews shall again be gathered to Jerusalem, for the Lord said: "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced."

Of interest is the following quotation from an article by Arthur U. Michelson which was published in "The Jewish Hope," Issue No. 9, Vol. 22, September, 1950. The article suggests how the Lord may, even now, be fulfilling the prophecy of Zechariah, "In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem . . .":

On my recent trip to Palestine I saw with my own eyes how God's prophecy is being fulfilled. In Gen. 17:8 God promised Abraham that he would give this land to him and his seed for an everlasting possession. The Jews waited 2,500 years for the fulfillment of this promise. After World War II, England, which had mandatory power over Palestine, suddenly gave it up and the Jews marched in. This was marvelous, for Palestine was one of the strongest fortresses England had in the Mediterranean Sea. Many contend today that the day of miracles is past, and that God does not intervene any more on behalf of His people, but they have learned through the events in Israel that they were mistaken.

It was marvelous what God did for the Jews, especially in Jerusalem, during the fighting with the Arabs. Though quite a few months had passed since the victory of Israel's army in Israel, they were still talking about what had taken place. Everywhere I went I heard how God had intervened in their behalf, and how He helped them to win the battles. One of the officials told me how much the Jews had to suffer. They had hardly anything with which to resist the heavy attacks of the Arabs, who were well organized and equipped with the latest weapons. Besides, they had neither food nor water because all their supplies were cut off.

The Arabs, who had a great army in strong position, were determined to destroy the Jews, while the Jews were few in number, without any arms and ammunition. The two or three guns they possessed had to be rushed from one point to another, to give the Arabs the impression that they had many of them. The Jews had quite a few tin cans which they beat as they shot the guns, giving the impression of many shots. But as the pressure was too great, they were unable to hold the lines any longer and finally decided to give up the city. At this critical moment God showed them that He was on their side, for He performed one of the greatest miracles that ever happened. The Arabs suddenly threw down their arms and surrendered. When their delegation appeared with the white flag, they asked, "Where are the three men that led you, and where are all the troops we saw?" The Jews told them that they did not know anything of the three men, for this group was their entire force. The Arabs said that they saw three persons with long beards and flowing white robes, who warned them not to fight any longer, otherwise they would all be killed. They became so frightened that they decided to give up. What an encouragement this was for the Jews, who realized that God was fighting for them.

The Lord moves in a mysterious way His wonders to perform. The Jews did not understand who the "three persons with long beards and flowing white robes" were who warned the Arabs "not to fight any longer, otherwise they would all be killed." The Stick of Joseph may throw some light upon this matter.

When Jesus Christ appeared to the Nephites in America, following His resurrection, He organized His Church among them, calling and appointing twelve disciples, as He had done in Jerusalem. Before leaving them, He permitted each of them to express his heart's desire:

And it came to pass when Jesus had said these words, he spake unto his disciples, one by one, saying unto them: What is it that ye desire of me, after that I am gone to the Father?

And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom.

And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest.

And when he had spoken unto them, he turned himself unto the three, and said unto them: What will ye that I should do unto you, when I am gone unto the Father?

And they sorrowed in their hearts, for they durst not speak unto him the thing which they desired.

And he said unto them: Behold, I know your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which John, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me.

Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the powers of heaven.

And ye shall never endure the pains of death, but when I shall come in my glory ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father.

And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the sins of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand. . . .

And behold they will be among the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall know them not.

They will also be among the Jews, and the Jews shall know them not.

And it shall come to pass, when the Lord seeth fit in his wisdom that they shall minister unto all the scattered tribes of Israel, and unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, and shall bring out of them unto Jesus many souls, that their desire may be fulfilled, and also because of the convincing power of God which is in them.

And they are as the angels of God, and if they shall pray unto the Father in the name of Jesus they can show themselves unto whatsoever man it seemeth them good.

Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them, before the great and coming day when all people must surely stand before the judgment-seat of Christ; (3 Nephi 28:1-9; 27-31.)

Therefore, "the three persons with long beards and flowing white robes" could have been these three Nephite disciples, for Jesus said: "And behold they will be among the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall know them not; they will also be among the Jews, and the Jews shall know them not."

We quote further from the article by Arthur U. Michelson:

God performed the same miracles on other fighting fronts, for He wanted to show the nations that He had turned to the Jews again, and like in the olden days, would help them to conquer the land. The Arabs were especially strong in the Negev District, not far from Beersheba, for they were backed by a large Egyptian army. The Jews were encircled by the Egyptians, and humanly speaking, had absolutely no chance to escape. One morning to the amazement of the Jews, the Arabs and the Egyptians suddenly gave up the fighting and surrendered. The Jews were at first very skeptical, because they couldn't believe that the Arabs and Egyptians would give up their strong position and surrender. But when they saw how the Arabs threw down their arms, they learned that God had intervened for them. When they asked the Arabs and Egyptians for the cause of their surrender, they told them that they saw an old man with a long beard who was dressed in a white robe, and who warned them not to fight any longer, otherwise they would all perish. This man was seen and heard by almost all the enemy troops. A great fear came over them and they decided to give up the fight. These and other stories I heard from various Jews who fought on the battle fronts. They said to me, "If God had not intervened we would all have been killed. We could never have conquered Palestine because we were so few and without arms and ammunition."

The man referred to "with a long beard who was dressed in a white robe," who warned the Arabs and Egyptians "not to fight any longer, otherwise they would all be killed" could have been one of these Nephite disciples, or he could have been the Apostle John who was with the Savior in Jerusalem, for Jesus explained unto the three Nephite disciples that they desired of him the same thing "which John, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me." (3 Nephi 28:6.)
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[sbsion]

OMD who pays you to quote all this bias crap?

[7cylon7]

Sorry but you are wrong. The UN loves Isreal and even set it up. The star is no star of david but the star of Lucifer. Look it up. The true Israel people would of rather had a minora on their flag rather than a star.

The UN or the TPTB want all religion to be destroyed. So of course they play each other against them. They want the Jews and the Moslems to fight it out to the death of both. Then the entire middle east will be theirs. No more moslems to worry about and most of the Jews will be gone as well. Also this is the time when America will be destroyed as well and our lands have been already promised to Russia and China.

You need to do some research on Solomon's temple and freemason. Their holy of holies would be to have a temple back in Jerusalem and place themselves there as GOD.

Is this not what Satan wants? This is his entire plan to subvert Christ and place himself there to be worshiped by all.

[Oldemandalton]

7cylon7
Sorry but you are wrong. The UN loves Isreal

No not true. You need to get out more, 7cylon7.

The star is no star of david but the star of Lucifer. Look it up. The true Israel people would of rather had a minora on their flag rather than a star.

The Magen David (shield of David, or as it is more commonly known, the Star of David) was used anciently, 7cylon7. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/19 ... n-s%20Seal




The Star of David in the oldest surviving complete copy of the Masoretic text, the Leningrad Codex, dated 1008



Throughout history, from the Middle Ages (1215) to Nazi Germany, the Jews were often forced to wear the Star of David for identification and persecution. Even back then they recognized it as a symbol of Judaism.




In the 17th century, it became a popular practice to put the Star of David on the outside of synagogues, to identify them as Jewish houses of worship in much the same way that a cross identified a Christian house of worship.

In 1897 it was used as the symbol of the new Zionist Movement. Why not use the symbol that everyone recognizes as Jewish, was the symbol used to bring them to the Holy Land, and to stick an eye into all of the Anti-Semitics worldwide who wants them destroyed?


I guess the LDS Church is Satanic too, right, 7cylon7?


Star of David on the Salt Lake Assembly Hall

The UN or the TPTB want all religion to be destroyed. So of course they play each other against them. They want the Jews and the Moslems to fight it out to the death of both.

This is true.

Then the entire middle east will be theirs.

We could have owned it after WW II but the British left. Why didn’t they keep it? Wouldn’t take much to take it back if the LDGs wanted it.

No more moslems to worry about and most of the Jews will be gone as well. Also this is the time when America will be destroyed as well and our lands have been already promised to Russia and China.

It’s all a huge chess game. There are 4 great powers vying for world domination, the Russians, Chinese, the One Worlders, and the Jihadists who want a worldwide Caliphate. Once the current world order is destroyed then they will fight it out amongst themselves for ‘king of the hill’.


Brigham Young described it using the example of ‘Kilkenny cats’. He quotes Joseph Smith as he describes what the nations would do to each other and what would be the cause of our own government’s downfall. Joseph Smith likened it to ‘Kilkenny cats’ which is a reference to an old story about two cats that fought to the death and ate each other up such that only their tails were left. This was a sadistic form of gambling where two or more cats have their tails tied together and hung over a line. This is an apt description of the political battles that are just beginning.

Brigham Young:
Because I walk humbly with my God and do right, so far as I know how. I do no evil to anyone; and as long as I can have faith in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to hinder the wolves from tearing the sheep and devouring them, without putting forth my hand, I shall do so.

I can say honestly and truly, before God, and the holy angels, and all men, that not one act of murder or disorder has occurred in this city or territory that I had any knowledge of, any more than a babe a week old, until after the event has transpired. That is the reason they cannot trace any crime to me. If I have faith enough to cause the devils to eat up the devils, like the Kilkenny cats, I shall certainly exercise it. Joseph Smith said that they would eat each other up, as did those cats. They will do so here, and throughout the world. The nations will consume each other, and the Lord will suffer them to bring it about. It does not require much talent or tact to get up opposition in these days. You see it rife in communities, in meetings, in neighborhoods, and in cities. That is the knife that will cut down this Government. The axe is laid at the root of the tree, and every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit will be hewn down. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols., 8:, p.143 - 144


1 Nephi 22:10-14
10 And I would, my brethren, that ye should know that all the kindreds of the earth cannot be blessed unless he shall make bare his arm in the eyes of the nations.
11 Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to make bare his arm in the eyes of all the nations, in bringing about his covenants and his gospel unto those who are of the house of Israel.
12 Wherefore, he will bring them again out of captivity, and they shall be gathered together to the lands of their inheritance; and they shall be brought out of obscurity and out of darkness; and they shall know that the Lord is their Savior and their Redeemer, the Mighty One of Israel.
13 And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.
14 And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.

You need to do some research on Solomon's temple and freemason. Their holy of holies would be to have a temple back in Jerusalem and place themselves there as GOD.

Freemasons have no power any more, 7cylon7, their days are gone.

Is this not what Satan wants? This is his entire plan to subvert Christ and place himself there to be worshiped by all.

Very true. There is a coming false prophet and I doubt he’ll be a Freemason. The Mahdi is on top of my list. Only natural for him to go to Jerusalem and the Temple Mount isn’t it?