Israel

[Oldemandalton]

Palestinian Authority TV Airs Show Praising ‘Hero’ Murderers of Fogel Family

Posted on January 29, 2012 at 2:25pm by Madeleine Morgenstern


FILE - In this March 12, 2011 file photo ZAKA rescue and recovery personnel carry a bag containing the body of a Fogel family member from a home in the West Bank Jewish settlement of Itamar. An Israeli military court has convicted on Monday, Nov. 28, 2011 a second Palestinian in the gruesome murders of five members of the Fogel family, including a baby, in March 2011.(AP Photo/Ariel Schalit, Files)

Palestinian TV aired an interview last week with relatives of the convicted murderers of the Fogel family, who called their imprisoned kin “heroic,” Haaretz reported.

The interview was part of the weekly show “For You,” broadcast on the Palestinian Authority’s official television channel. “For You” focuses on Palestinian prisoners imprisoned in Israel.

According to Palestinian Media Watch, the interview with the mother and aunt of Hakim Awad aired on Jan. 19 and Jan. 21. Awad, along with his cousin Amjad Awad, were convicted of brutally stabbing to death five members of the Fogel family in their home in March 2011: Father Udi, mother Ruth, and children Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and 3-month-old Hadas. The baby’s throat was slashed while she was in her crib, The Blaze previously reported. An Israeli court sentenced both Awads to five consecutive life sentences for their crimes.

In the interview, Awad’s mother referred to her son as “the apple of my eye” and praised him for “the operation.“ His aunt referred to him as ”the hero, the legend” and dedicated a brief song to him.

The show’s host added: “We, for our part, also convey our greetings to them.”

Watch below:



Transcript of the interview, via Palestinian Media Watch:

PA TV host: “We have a call from the family of prisoner Hakim Awad.”

Mother of Hakim Awad: “I thank you for connecting me with my son, because I and all of the family are prevented for security reasons [from visiting him].

Host: “Go ahead, sister, we can convey your voice.”

Mother of Hakim Awad: “My greetings to dear Hakim, the apple of my eye, from the village of Awarta, 17 years old, who carried out the operation in Itamar (i.e., killing of 5 Fogel family members), sentenced to 5 life sentences and another 5 years, in prison.”

Aunt of Hakim Awad: “I’m the sister of prisoner Hassan Awad and of Salah Awad; Um Habib, from the village of Awarta. My warm greetings to all the great heroic prisoners, to my brother Hassan Awad, head of the village council; to my brother Salah Awad, the heroic prisoner journalist; to the heroic, resolute prisoner, the lion, Yazid Awad, my nephew; and to my nephew Hakim Awad, the hero, the legend.”

Host: “We [PA TV], for our part, also convey our greetings to them.”

Aunt of Hakim Awad: “I dedicate this song to Hassan Awad, Yazid Awad, Hakim Awad, and Salah Awad, in prison:

‘My brother, in solitary confinement, your voice calls to me
You dare not throw down the rifle
That is what the homeland asked of me
In your eyes, we are all self-sacrificing fighters.
I convey greetings to the sound of the bullets of Ahmad Sa’adat and Hakim Awad.’”

Host: “Thank you for being with us, the family of prisoners Hassan and Salah Awad of Awarta.”


Rabi Yehuda Ben Ishai, father of Ruth Fogel, center, and other family members, names not given, mourn over the bodies of Ruth, her husband Udi and their three children, during their funeral in Jerusalem, Sunday, March, 13, 2011. (AP Photo/Sebastian Scheiner)

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/palesti ... el-family/






Itamar massacre: Fogel family butchered while sleeping

Names of Itamar attack victims cleared for publication Saturday evening: Udi Fogel, 36, Ruth Fogel, 35, and their children Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and three-month-old Hadas were stabbed to death.
Yair Altman



3-month-old victim - Hadas



4-year-old Elad – stabbed to death



Yoav Fogel, 11, murdered at home



Mother murdered - Ruth Fogel



Father had no chance – Udi Fogel

The names of the five family members murdered in the Itamar terror attack were cleared for publication Saturday evening: Udi Fogel, 36, Ruth Fogel, 35, and their children Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and three-month-old Hadas.

Ynetnews coverage of Itamar massacre:

The three siblings who survived the attack are Tamar, 12, Roi, 8, and two-year-old Yishai. They are staying with their grandparents at this time.

The funeral for the victims will be held Sunday in Jerusalem at 1:30 pm.

The children's grandfather, Haim Fogel, recounted the difficult moments his family has faced in the past 24 hours.

"We received the grim news about the attack at 3 am…we were driven to Udi's home in Itamar and saw the scene of the despicable murder. We returned home with the three kids who remained alive," he said.

The grandfather also spoke of his last phone conversation with his son.

"Udi spoke to me and to Tzila, my wife. He also spoke to his siblings Matan and Michal. "We visited them in Itamar only last Saturday," he said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke with Haim Fogel on the phone Saturday evening to offer condolences and support.

"It's a cold-blooded massacre of innocent children and parents," the prime minister said. "I, and the entire nation of Israel, embrace you and the three grandchildren who survived the horror. I promise to do everything we can in order to assist you at these terrible times."

The Fogel family lived in Gush Katif in the past, and following Israel's disengagement from the Gaza Strip moved to Ariel. Recently, the family moved to Itamar, where it built a house.

'Boy crying near parents' body'

Rabbi Yaakov Cohen, a neighbor who discovered the bodies, said that the Fogel's 12-year-old daughter knocked on his door around 12:45 am Saturday. She said that no one opened the door at her home, and that there are muddy footprints at the entrance.

"I took my weapon and we went up to the back window of the house, where we saw one of the surviving children," Cohen said. "He was sitting in the center of the living room, where there was no sign of blood, only mud."

They then asked the boy to open the front door.

"The daughter went into one of the rooms, and saw the horror before I did," Cohen said. "I entered and saw that another boy survived, a two-year-old. He was lying next to his bleeding parents, shaking them with his hands and trying to get them to wake them up, while crying."

Cohen, who was close to the family and worked with Udi Fogel, said that he took the boy in his arms and hugged him.

"The girl screamed and cried, and my daughter who arrived at the house tried to calm her down and hug her," he said. "We saw the bodies in the rooms. I scanned the house in order to see that there was no terrorist there, and waited for the security forces to arrive on the scene. The sight in the house was shocking."

[AussieOi]

Thanks for the excellent reads in the posts on Israel. I believe, as a nation, we have "run faster than we have strength" in our supposed position of greatness concerning world affairs. I recall Pres. Hinckley stating something to the effect there were reasons for going to war and one of those reasons is in the defense of oppressed people. But, it was my understanding, those people should want and ask for our assistance. I need to search through his addresses to find more particular wording. That being said, as a nation we have flung about our resources with an abandon that makes us currently useless in going to any defense. Only by further decimating ourselves do we prop up the image of being the defender of the oppressed. We have abandoned ourselves in large measure for the pride of our worldwide image.

Brian M's article is an important article and we need to try to understand the full import of the statements quoted. Maintaining our national independence can only be achieved by remaining strong within. We seem to forget wise counsel such as Winston Churchhill's when he stated, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." In the Book of Mormon there is a great conflict story concerning a man named Captain Moroni--leading the Nephites in battle--and the leader of his country, Pahoran. When it appeared Pahoran could be following unprincipled behavior, Moroni sent him correspondence telling him he would bring his armies and clean out the heart of his country first before engaging the enemy on the outside. This is our largest downfall. We have long let go of principled behavior to the point it is difficult to even understand what that principled behavior should be. Until we return to principled behavior, we will have no "big stick" to carry. A nation that has impoverished itself cannot defend anyone. Further, our founding fathers clearly discouraged "unholy" alliances. Any alliance to the detriment of our own nation and its particular protection of the individual's liberty is not in keeping with this counsel.

We have not only impoverished ourselves financially, we have impoverished ourselves as regarding integrity--in every definition of the word. Christ gave the example--we refuse to understand it.

Nice post
Note Pres Hinckley stressed he was giving his opinion only
Clearly the Lord had not revealed his instruction as per the pattern of war as given to all ancients, including Abraham, Isaac, Jaboc, Nephi and others.

As for the following post with pictures, I fail to see how demonstrating the tragedy of one family at the hands of the criminal defends a nation any more than it smears all Palestinian people.

[sbsion]

satan is very clever, he has disquised "Judah" by using the word Israel, we are had

[Oldemandalton]

AussieOi
As for the following post with pictures, I fail to see how demonstrating the tragedy of one family at the hands of the criminal defends a nation any more than it smears all Palestinian people.

I am sorry that you didn’t get the point of the post AussieOi, but not surprised.

The above two stories illustrate the hatred of the extremists ‘Palestinians’. Not the everyday go to work live and let live Muslims. The extremists leader and media of the ‘Palestinian’ people produced the ‘criminals’ who snuck into a Jewish home and stabbed to death the parents and their infant and toddler children, with absolutely no remorse at all, THEN were celebrated as heroes in the Palestinian community. That was the point that went over your anti-Israel head AussieOi. You are so far gone you did not even see it.

[AussieOi]

AussieOi
As for the following post with pictures, I fail to see how demonstrating the tragedy of one family at the hands of the criminal defends a nation any more than it smears all Palestinian people.

I am sorry that you didn’t get the point of the post AussieOi, but not surprised.

The above two stories illustrate the hatred of the extremists ‘Palestinians’. Not the everyday go to work live and let live Muslims. The extremists leader and media of the ‘Palestinian’ people produced the ‘criminals’ who snuck into a Jewish home and stabbed to death the parents and their infant and toddler children, with absolutely no remorse at all, THEN were celebrated as heroes in the Palestinian community. That was the point that went over your anti-Israel head AussieOi. You are so far gone you did not even see it.

So why do you demonise an entire nation, people, culture and religion because of the acts of extremists?
Do you blame all Germansd and Lutherans and Christians for the acts of the S in WW2?
Do you blame Americans and Christians for the acts of Maughans Mill massacre?
Do you blame the LDS and Brigham Young for the revenge murders which were the Mountain Meadows Massacre?
IIRC there is a court case recently concluded where a dozeon US soldiers admitted they went into a house and slaughtered a family of many, in as evil a manner as this murderer, and the court marshall found them not guilty and let them off. I recall seeing much in your culture that celebrates the killing of these rag-heads in this act and in general. What was the excuse "we were under pressure, we didn't know what the rules of our engagement were."
I mean your empire is built on murder, destruction and violence
You inflicted shock and awe on an entire nation. what an evil act of total murder that was. bombing a nation to prevent the supposed potential acts of a few- which never happened by the way. I recall a jongoistic media in your and indeed in my country triuphant over the invasion of Iraq, all fo us conveniently ignoring the misery fear and suffering going on under those bombs
indeed every day in the occupied palestine is another day the same
But Palestinians are evil because they teach their children to rejoice in the murder of innocents.
not us, no, we didn't


we don't
we teach our children love, and tolerance, and peace

of course, there is this


and this

Here is the translation
Dear Lebanese/Palestinian/Arab/Muslim/Christians - Kids,

Die with love.

Yours,
Israeli Kids

sbsion has it right
satan runs both camps
to alienate or marginalise, or say one group only is murderous, or teaches their kids to hate, is naive
its also ignorant to ignore the fact of who is occupying who, who is puytting which kids in jail, who is stealing land from who, and so on
you dont think this is part of the problem


but i guess the nazis blamed the jews
the cardassians blame the bajorans, and there are many who will cheerlead for them

[linj2fly]

A movie I highly recommend:

Joyeux Noel

A telling of the Christmas Eve Truce...

Very applicable in light of the hatred Satan tries to keep inciting amongst ourselves (nationalism, etc...a false loyalty, btw), and the innate humanity we have for one another.

You can watch it on youtube, search 'joyeux noel ENG' (for english version...although, since there are english, german, and french speakers, you may need to turn on closed captioning). O/w netflix has it.

[Oldemandalton]

AussieOi

So why do you demonise an entire nation, people, culture and religion because of the acts of extremists?

Can you show me a post where I “demonise an entire nation, people, culture and religion”?

Nope.

Do you blame all Germansd and Lutherans and Christians for the acts of the S in WW2?

Who are the S?

Do you blame Americans and Christians for the acts of Maughans Mill massacre?

“Maughans Mill massacre”?

Do you blame the LDS and Brigham Young for the revenge murders which were the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

Nope.

IIRC there is a court case recently concluded where a dozeon US soldiers admitted they went into a house and slaughtered a family of many, in as evil a manner as this murderer, and the court marshall found them not guilty and let them off.

Incorrecto mundo AusieOi, as usual.

I recall seeing much in your culture that celebrates the killing of these rag-heads in this act and in general. What was the excuse "we were under pressure, we didn't know what the rules of our engagement were."

I am offended that you use the term “rag-heads”, AusieOi, when you refer to our Muslim brothers. Just shows your true racism.

I mean your empire is built on murder, destruction and violence

Empire?

You inflicted shock and awe on an entire nation. what an evil act of total murder that was.

“War is he11.”

bombing a nation to prevent the supposed potential acts of a few- which never happened by the way.

??

I recall a jongoistic media in your and indeed in my country triuphant over the invasion of Iraq, all fo us conveniently ignoring the misery fear and suffering going on under those bombs
indeed every day in the occupied palestine is another day the same

Yea I am sure Sadaam and his sons were disappointed they had to close the rape and torture chambers.

But Palestinians are evil because they teach their children to rejoice in the murder of innocents.

I agree with you AusieOi. Didn’t think you had it in you to finally admit the truth about how the Palestinian leaders teach their children to hate the Jews.

Palestinian children are taught to hate Jews, to glorify “jihad” (holy war), violence, death and child martyrdom almost from birth, as
an essential part of their culture and destiny.

As captured on an Israeli video documentary produced in 1998, a “Sesame Street”-like children’s program called the “Children’s Club” — complete with puppet shows, songs, Mickey Mouse and other characters — focused on inculcating intense hatred of Jews and a passion for engaging in and celebrating violence against them in a perpetual “jihad” until the day the Israeli flags come down from above “Palestinian land” and the Palestinian flag is raised.

In one song on the “Children’s Club,” very young children are shown singing songs about wanting to become “suicide warriors” and to take up “a machine gun” to direct “violence, anger, anger, anger” against Israelis.

During the show, which features children aged 4-10, one young boy sings, “When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber.” Afterward, other children stand to call for “Jihad! Holy war to the end against the Zionist enemy.”

In another segment, a boy who appears to be no more than 8 or 9 years old chants: “My patience has run out. All Arab existence cries for revenge” against the Jews in Israel.

The documentary also juxtaposes the children’s programming with television news reporting, in which the news anchor – reflecting the same message the children are receiving -describes Palestinians as “noble, courageous” fighters, while describing Israel as “mean, fascist, racist, genocidal” and “Nazis.”

Other “highlights” of the “Children’s Club”:

•Groups of children are gathered together, shouting for “Jihad against Israel.”

•One girl, who appears to be in a Palestinian school classroom, sings of donning “battledress” to “attack the Zionists.”

•A small girl chants the now-familiar ditty, “When I wander into Jerusalem, I will become a suicide bomber.”

•An adult narrator reads material in a Palestinian school pamphlet: “I have raised my children for jihad and on the principle that they never give up on their land.”

•One segment depicts a small boy on the street chanting, “Revolution until victory.”

•Another boy is shown in class proclaiming, “We will settle our claims with stones and bullets.”

In Palestinian school classrooms, the message is the same.

“It’s very scary – it’s a state-run educational system that teaches its children to be martyrs,” said Meyrav Wurmser, Ph.D., an expert in Middle East politics who taught at the U.S. Naval Academy and Johns Hopkins. Wurmser is the author of the recently published book, “Schools of
Ba’athism,” in which she makes a comprehensive survey and analysis of Syrian school textbooks. What she found is identical to what goes on with the Palestinians, she says.

“In the Palestinian case, what we see is the cynical use of children, who are exposed to a state-run ideology that pushes them to their death, in the name of Palestinian nationalism,” she says. “Children are taught to idealize death, to view it as a positive. In many cases, they are told that death is not death at all, but rather the beginning of a new life.”

Wurmser is currently the executive director of The Middle East Media & Research Institute, or MEMRI, and has published extensively on the Middle East and Arab and Israeli politics.

How can children be sold on dying in battle?

“The state threatens children if they’re not willing to commit jihad,” says Wurmser, “and tells them they will be punished by God if they do not commit jihad. If they do commit jihad, they and their families will be benefited by the state. [Their families] are promised major financial benefits if they kill themselves in suicide attacks against Israel.”

To get over the fear, explained Wurmser, “they are told by their teachers that they’re not going to die at all. There is definitely an element of denial they are exposed to.”

This is not to say that some parents won’t object to having their children converted to terrorists, says Wurmser, “but in the more religious families, there is no sense of sorrow. We see Palestinian mothers who have lost children – especially parents from very fundamentalist Muslim backgrounds — who are not upset at all, but who say their sons have brought great honor to their families.” This is typical, she says, of “radical national Arab regimes who have adopted the Islamic line.”

This shocking assessment was bolstered in an Oct. 27 Jerusalem Post editorial, in which writer Gerald M. Steinberg provided details of statements made by Palestinians to reporters after their children had been killed in fighting.

“Interviewed by journalists after [recent] tragedies, some of the parents of these young victims refer to their children as shaheeds (martyrs), whose lives were given willingly and proudly to the Palestinian cause in fighting the hated Zionist enemy,” Steinberg said.

Palestinian man teaching children how to fire M-16 automatic assault rifles.

“In an unbelievably shocking scene, one mother boasted that she bore her son precisely for this purpose, and the father proudly claimed credit for providing the training. The parents will also receive a sizeable financial ‘reward’ from the Palestinian Authority,” he said.

“For a people who count Abraham (or Ibrahim) among their ancestors, this willful child sacrifice violates the fundamental tenets of morality and ethics,” said Steinberg. “The message of Abraham’s non-sacrifice of Isaac was, and remains first and foremost, the absolute rejection of such practices.”

Middle East sources consulted by WorldNetDaily said the “Children’s Club” is no longer being produced, but that other programs with similar messages and themes have taken its place.
http://www.wnd.com/2000/11/4326/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

not us, no, we didn't


we don't
we teach our children love, and tolerance, and peace

of course, there is this

I am not surprised that you fell for the Palestinian lies fed to you by Haitham Sabbah and that you read his blog. Also that you use ‘white noise insanity’, a lefty blogger, as a resource for your research. See “the rest of the story” (the truth) in the article below.

and this

Here is the translation
Dear Lebanese/Palestinian/Arab/Muslim/Christians - Kids,

Die with love.

Yours,
Israeli Kids

sbsion has it right
satan runs both camps
to alienate or marginalise, or say one group only is murderous, or teaches their kids to hate, is naïve

AussieOi, you and Sbsion are so filled with hatred and have swallowed the enemy’s propaganda against the nation of Israel that you will never see or know the truth.

its also ignorant to ignore the fact of who is occupying who, who is puytting which kids in jail, who is stealing land from who, and so on
you dont think this is part of the problem

The problem began in 1947 when a two state solution was given to the Arabs and the Jews in the Holy Land. The Arabs refused to accept a Jewish state in the Middle East and have fought for over 6 decades to try and wipe them out. Even though they grossly outnumber the Jews in Israel, they have failed because it is God who drew them there to fulfil of His promises He made to them in the scriptures.

but i guess the nazis blamed the jews

Yes they did. Hey, we agree on something else. Two in one post, WOW!

the cardassians blame the bajorans, and there are many who will cheerlead for them

What or who are cardassians and bajorans?



Putting things in perspective

by Lisa Goldman on Thu 20 Jul 2006


Sebastian Scheiner/AP

The image above caused a huge storm of outrage in the Arab blogosphere. Huge. You wouldn't believe how huge. The widely-read Gulf-based Palestinian blogger who was the first to post it received so much traffic that he had to move the photo to another server. Many others, including several I know personally, posted it and expressed their disgust. Israeli children taught to hate! Lebanese children are dying and they're happy! They're no better than... (fill in the blank, I don't want to go there).

Below is the story behind the photo - from the source.

I phoned Sebastian Scheiner, the Israeli photojournalist who took the photo for Associated Press (AP), explained that the image had given a really terrible impression and asked for the context. He sketched it out quickly and fluidly, but asked me not to quote him. So I spoke with Shelly Paz, a Yedioth Ahronoth reporter who was also at the scene and agreed immediately to go on record. She was quite shocked to learn how badly the photo had been misinterpreted and misrepresented; and she told me the same story Sebastian did, but with more details and nuance.

The little girls shown drawing with felt markers on the tank missiles are residents of Kiryat Shmona, which is right on the border with Lebanon. And when I say "on the border," I'm not kidding; there's little more space between their town and Southern Lebanon than there is between the back gardens of neighbouring houses in a wealthy American suburb.

No, how close is it really?

Well, there's a famous story in Israel, from the time when the Israeli army occupied Southern Lebanon: a group of soldiers stationed inside southern Lebanon used their mobile phones to order pizza from Kiryat Shmona and have it delivered to the fence that separates the two countries.

Anyway.

Kiryat Shmona has been under constant bombardment from South Lebanon since the first day of the conflict. It was a ghost town, explained Shelly. There was not a single person on the streets and all the businesses were closed. The residents who had friends, family or money for alternate housing out of missile range had left, leaving behind the few who had neither the funds nor connections that would allow them to escape the missiles crashing and booming on their town day and night. The noise was terrifying, people were dying outside, the kids were scared out of their minds and they had been told over and over that some man named Nasrallah was responsible for their having to cower underground for days on end.

On the day that photo was taken, the girls had emerged from the underground bomb shelters for the first time in five days. A new army unit had just arrived in the town and was preparing to shell the area across the border. The unit attracted the attention of twelve photojournalists - Israeli and foreign. The girls and their families gathered around to check out the big attraction in the small town - foreigners. They were relieved and probably a little giddy at being outside in the fresh air for the first time in days. They were probably happy to talk to people. And they enjoyed the attention of the photographers.

Apparently one or some of the parents wrote messages in Hebrew and English on the tank shells to Nasrallah. "To Nasrallah with love," they wrote to the man whose name was for them a devilish image on television - the man who mockingly told Israelis, via speeches that were broadcast on Al Manar and Israeli television, that Hezbollah was preparing to launch even more missiles at them. That he was happy they were suffering.

The photograpers gathered around. Twelve of them. Do you know how many that is? It's a lot. And they were all simultaneously leaning in with their long camera lenses, clicking the shutter over and over. The parents handed the markers to the kids and they drew little Israeli flags on the shells. Photographers look for striking images, and what is more striking than pretty, innocent little girls contrasted with the ugliness of war? The camera shutters clicked away, and I guess those kids must have felt like stars, especially since the diversion came after they'd been alternately bored and terrified as they waited out the shelling in their bomb shelters.

Shelly emphasized several times that none of the parents or children had expressed any hatred toward the Lebanese people. No-one expressed any satisfaction at knowing that Lebanese were dying - just as Israelis are dying. Their messages were directed at Nasrallah. None of those people was detached or wise enough to think: "Hang on, tank shell equals death of human beings." They were thinking, tank shell equals stopping the missiles that land on my house. Tank shells will stop that man with the turban from threatening to kill us.

And besides, none of those children had seen images of dead people - either Israeli or Lebanese. Israeli television doesn't broadcast them, nor do the newspapers print them. Even when there were suicide bombings in Israel several times a week for months, none of the Israeli media published gory photos of dead or wounded people. It's a red line in Israel. Do not show dead, bleeding, torn up bodies because the families of the dead will suffer and children will have nightmares. And because it is just in bad taste to use suffering for propaganda purposes.

Those kids had seen news footage of destroyed buildings and infrastructure, but not of the human toll. They had heard over and over that the air force was destroying the buildings that belonged to Hezbollah, the organization responsible for shelling their town and threatening their lives. How many small children would be able to make the connection between tank shells and dead people on their own? How many human beings are able to detach from their own suffering and emotional stress and think about that of the other side? Not many, I suspect.

So, perhaps the parents were not wise when they encouraged their children to doodle on the tank shells. They were letting off a little steam after being cooped up - afraid, angry and isolated - for days. Sometimes people do silly things when they are under emotional stress. Especially when they fail to understand how their childish, empty gesture might be interpreted.

I've been thinking for the last two days about this photo and the storm of reaction it set off. I worry about the climate of hate that would lead people to look at it and automatically assume the absolute worst - and then use the photo to dehumanize and victimize. I wonder why so many people seem to take satisfaction in believing that little Israeli girls with felt markers in their hands - not weapons, but felt markers - are evil, or spawned by an evil society. I wonder how those people would feel if Israelis were to look at a photo of a Palestinian child wearing a mock suicide belt in a Hamas demonstration and conclude that all Palestinians - nay, all Arabs - are evil.

And I wonder why it is so difficult to think a little, to get it into our heads that television news and photojournalism manipulate our thoughts and emotions.

Links to anti-Israel websites with that photo placed prominently next to the image of a dead Lebanese child have been sent to me several times. Someone has been rushing around the Israeli blogosphere, leaving the link to one particularly abhorrent site in the comments boxes. And it makes me really sad that the emotional climate has deteriorated to this point.

The moderates of the Middle East are locked in a battle with the extremists. And look what they did to the moderates. Without blinking, without thinking, we fell victim to the classic "divide and conquer" technique. We work hard for months and years to build connections, develop our societies, educate ourselves, promote democracy and free speech... And they destroy it all, in less than a week. And we let them.
http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_arc ... 42505.html





The decades of hate that the Arab leaders and parents taught their children, end in the great hatred for the Jews which drove two youth to slit the throats of babies and toddlers and for them to be proud of their evil act and then receive accolades from the Palestinian people.

There is a vast difference between that and children doodling on 122mm tank shells that they thought would protect their families and village.

“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
Golda Meir, 1957

[MrScience]

This whole discussion is disturbing. I think as a new poster I will have to work into this heavy stuff. I was looking for religion!

[AussieOi]

Felt threatened. Those poor Israeli children
Maybe if their parents stopped bombing the schmuck out of the Palestinians they’d feel safer
Come on. It wasn’t their land. You are using Jewish and Christian scriptures to justify what politicians did and terrorists behind them did to dispossess lands belonging to people for hundreds of years and longer

In the last 10 years what, 10,000 palestinians have been killed and what, 100 israelis?
These gas cylinders called missiles the Israelis go on about have killed 9 people.
Meanwhile operation cast lead killed 3000

The way you gloss over shock and awe is just classif. War is he11. What a moronic and stupid soporific statement, so typical.

In Australia, we don’t even read the letters anymore about the entire Palestine Israel issue. Its obvious to those who want to see. Only Zionist jews and Israelis and their Christian fundo nutjob friends even bother defending the state of Israel anymore.

The problem is that they are SO militant about it, that they shut down all debate and expressions of concern for Palestinians by saying “anti semitical” and “holocaust deniers” and they then trot out their 500 line articles by Israeli mouthpieces justifying their actions so as to defend themselves

But its beyond apparent. Its as bad as hearing the Nazi’s go on about protecting themselves from those terrorist Jews in the Warsaw ghetto.

For the life of me I will never understand 2 things. 1) Why and LDS comes off a mission and joins the US military (an institution run by and fulfilling the mission of Lucifer), and 2) why people even try to defend Zionist settlers and the Israeli War Machine.

But knowing enough I know that there is big money in them employing people to sit on web rooms and manage the discussion as well as send letter after letter to newspapers, and complain to media and government when a sympathetic story to Palestinians ever makes it into the media. They just grind journalists down and go for blood demanding they be sacked, so journos don’t risk their job by writing about it.

Hence you do a great job of perpetuating the misery of millions

So if the UN told Mexico that they can have Texas and so they invaded it and imprisoned the US citizens and killed 300,000 US citizens fit that would make it acceptable?

So if the UN told the USA that they can have Iraq and Afghanistan to do with as they see fit that would make it acceptable...oh wait

The whole debate is pointless. Its not like 9/11 or Fluoride where people want the information and make their mind up and change it. When it comes to Israel you either do or you don’t accept the reality of the situation.

Those Christians married to the view that Israel is a strong religious word in our tradition simply run that line and are ignorant to the reality of what the state truly is. Satan laughs at them, they do his work for them.

Meanwhile, because there can be no debate, people express their animosity to the state as a people, and say “I hate Israel” and “I am sick of those whining Jews” and so forth, thus elements of anti-Semitism emerge. And who wins by that? Satan once again

SO keep posting excuses for Israel. Show your ignorance and stubbornness. Keep sending them money to buy your military technology to on sell to China and North Korea and your enemies. Stifle debate

Post threads showing how evil Palestinians are and how Israel with its nuclear weapons and worlds 6th largest military force must be defended from stone throwing youth and the occasional fool with a bomb strapped to himself.

Just remember, everyone has already made their mind up..and most people are sick of the state of Israel...and could hardly care if it were wiped off a map (not that it militarily and practically can I might add)....and Gee, who wins if that happens.

Great job.

[Oldemandalton]

AusieOi
Felt threatened. Those poor Israeli children
Maybe if their parents stopped bombing the schmuck out of the Palestinians they’d feel safer

Kiryat Shmona is one mile from the Lebanon border. Hezbolah and other terrorist groups used southern Lebanon as a launching pad to attack Israel. Kiryat Shmona was a frequent target of many attacks. Among them:

On 11 April 1974 3 members of the terrorist group Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine snuck into an apartment building and killed 10 adults and 8 small children and wounding 16 more, before being killed the IDF.

During 1981 and 1986 the PLO launched Katyusha rockets (with 40 lbs of explosives + shrapnel) on the village killing one teacher and injuring 4 students and one adult.

In 1996 almost a thousand Katyusha rockets rained down on southern Israel most on Kiryat Shmona.

During the 2006 Lebanon War, (when the above pictures were taken) the city was again the target of Hezbollah Katyusha rocket attacks. A total of 1,012 Katyusha rockets hit Kiryat Shmona.

AusieOi
Come on. It wasn’t their land. You are using Jewish and Christian scriptures to justify what politicians did and terrorists behind them did to dispossess lands belonging to people for hundreds of years and longer

Yes, you are right, I DO use God as an authority for the right of Jews to settle the Holy Land and live in relative piece with the Arabs within their borders. Which authority do you use AusieOi? On yea, never mind, I can guess which authority you use, and it’s not God.

AusieOi
In the last 10 years what, 10,000 palestinians have been killed and what, 100 israelis?
These gas cylinders called missiles the Israelis go on about have killed 9 people.
Meanwhile operation cast lead killed 3000

How Many Israelis Should Have Died First?

by Richard L. Cravatts
01/05/2009

No sooner had Israel launched its December 27th offensive against Hamas operations in Gaza, reacting to the unceasing barrages of rockets and mortars that have rained into southern Israel, than the moral arbiters of acceptable behavior in war between democratic states and terrorism condemned Israel for its perceived abuses in executing its national self-defense.

David Miliband, Britain’s Foreign Secretary, smugly accused Israel of causing a "dangerous and dark moment" in history, and made the preposterous, and unrealistic, judgment “that any innocent loss of life is unacceptable.” Malaysia’s Deputy Foreign Minister Abdul Rahim Bakri obscenely suggested that Israel’s actions were crimes against humanity that were "tantamount to genocide," indicating both an ignorance of what that term actually signifies and a blindness to actual genocides occurring presently at the hand of his co-religionists.

But the most insidious refrain, one which is uttered only when Israel’s enemies are killed and not when only Jews are murdered, is that Israel’s military response is too aggressive, that the force and effect of the excursion into Gaza are beyond appropriate boundaries.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, for instance, could not get to a microphone fast enough to decry “the disproportionate use of force" on the part of Israel. UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon, who presides over a morally bankrupt group of comprised largely of despotic, self-righteous regimes, deemed the violence "unacceptable," and added that he had to specifically condemn the “excessive use of force by Israel in Gaza.” India’s External Affairs Ministry spokesman, Vishnu Prakash, was disappointed at what he witnessed as “the use of disproportionate force is resulting in a large number of civilian casualties on the one hand and the escalating violence on the other," both taking place, presumably, as a result of Israel’s actions.

Nor did non-governmental figures refrain from chiming in with the moral scolding of Israel’s actions. Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the United States, Katharine Jefferts Schori, personally challenged “the Israeli government to call a halt to this wholly disproportionate escalation of violence.” And the Muslim Public Affairs Council, always reticent when confronted with terrorism unleashed in the name of Islam, was quick to determine that "Israel's latest military assault is a disproportionate and inhumane response to Palestinian militants' cross-border rocket attacks.”

The remonstrations of Israel’s many and far-flung critics aside, Israel is not the international outlaw here, but the victim who is now involved in a defensive countermeasure to illegal terrorism. In fact, in a recent report, Justus Reid Weiner and Dr. Avi Bell, two legal scholars at the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, note that Israel’s counterstrikes fastidiously conform to what is called the “rule of proportionality,” even while the Jewish state has been promiscuously condemned for the past week by its critics for committing “genocide,” “crimes against humanity,” and multiple human rights violations in their assault against Hamas.

“The rule of proportionality,” say Weiner and Bell, “forbids collateral damage that is expected to be excessive in relation to the military need,” and given Israel’s surgically-precise targeting of Hamas personnel and infrastructure, “it is difficult to see how a credible claim can be made that any of Israel’s counter-strikes have created disproportionate collateral damage.”

In fact, collateral damage -- the accidental killing of civilians during military conflicts -- is itself even allowed by international law, provided the actions that caused the civilian deaths are not, according to the legal scholars, excessive in relation to the military need. But the fact that deaths occur in civilian populations -- even what might be perceived as excessive deaths -- are not in and of themselves indicative of violation of international law, and, says Weiner and Bell, “if a state, like Israel, is facing aggression, then proportionality addresses whether force was specifically used by Israel to bring an end to the armed attack against it.”

Also, in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas on earth with its population of 1.5 million, Israel also scrupulously followed the “rule of distinction” by precisely targeting Hamas terrorists and infrastructure, with minimal, though still unfortunate, collateral damage to the Gaza civilian population -- a feat made all the more difficult by Hamas’ insidious tactic of embedding rocket launchers and armament stores within residential neighborhoods as a perverse way of further demonizing Israel when the inevitable killing of civilians occurs.

Even so, with some 400 fatalities in Gaza as of the end of a week of incursions, even Israel’s critics admitted that the great majority of causalities were Hamas operatives and gunmen, showing that, unlike its enemies who target only civilians, Israel has not only effected obvious “distinction” in its targeting, but by doing so it also maintained “proportionality,” the other aspect of warfare upon which international law insists.

In fact, the scholars notes, Israel is scrupulous in adhering to these guidelines for warfare by “apply[ing] an extremely restrictive standard of both distinction and proportionality, in accordance with intrusive Israeli Supreme Court rulings that have imposed far stricter legal standards on the Israeli military than those found in international law.”

Weiner and Bell also emphasize that Hamas’ shelling of civilian targets within Israel’s borders clearly violates international law by violating the rule of distinction, even though world observers have been oddly silent on those transgressions. “The Palestinian attacks violate one of the most basic rules of international humanitarian law,” they say, “the rule of distinction, which requires combatants to aim all their attacks at legitimate targets -- enemy combatants or objects that contribute to enemy military actions. Violations of the rule of distinction -- attacks deliberately aimed at civilians or protected objects as such -- are war crimes,” exactly what Hamas has been committing with its relentless rocket assaults.

How many Jews should have died in the 6300 rocket barrages falling on Sderot, Ashkelon, Ashdod, and Netivot since 2005 when Israel disengaged from Gaza to have made Israel’s incursion legal and morally acceptable? Was the daily terror of 3000 Qassam and Grad rockets and mortars falling into civilian neighborhoods in the last year alone not justification enough for self-defense?

Should Israel have continued to wait until a school or daycare center was struck, forcing Israel to play, in the words of Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, “Russian Roulette with its children?” What harm had to be done, in addition to the trauma and social dysfunction that daily rocket barrages have on civilian populations, until critics would ever decide, in their sanctimony and moral equivalency, that Israel finally had the right to defend its population? Were not the 425 attacks between 2000 and 2004 on Israel that wounded more than 2,000 and killed nearly 400 civilians adequate in their lethality and seriousness to indicate the unrelenting jihad that defines Hamas’ existence?

An odd, racist student organization on American campuses, Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlán (MEChA), like the Palestinians, is an irredentist movement that seeks the “liberation” of what they consider to be their rightful ancestral homelands. For MEChA, that mythic land is something called “Aztlan,” a territory which inconveniently includes much of the Southwest of the present-day United States, from Washington State to Texas and great swathes of territory in between. In language eerily similar to the PLO Charter, MEChA claims a right to reclaim lands stolen from it by imperial powers. Aztlan “became synonymous with the vast territories of the Southwest,” says the MEChA charter, “brutally stolen from a Mexican people marginalized and betrayed by the hostile custodians of the Manifest Destiny. It also initiated the rebirth of our consciousness as indigenous people, whose history and heritage have overcome the forces of European colonialism in order to inspire us today.”

Assume for a moment that a radicalized element of the MEChA organization decided to act on their “reconquista” ambitions and repeated terrorist attacks had taken place against Texas border towns; at the same rate of causalities per capita that Hamas has achieved in Israel, those 400 Israeli dead in a nation of under six million would be the equivalent of some 19,000 dead American civilians. Can anyone doubt the inexhaustible effort, might, and political will that would have been unleashed on those perpetrators, how every resource of our government would have justly and firmly responded to domestic terrorism with formidable wrath and might? Would we have hesitated to eliminate the leadership of such a horrific enemy, even if its leadership had alleged, divine claims to our land and had ordained that we had no right to exist?

Of course we would not, nor would we countenance the criticism of the international community that cautioned us against possibly inciting further terrorism or in being heavy-handed in protecting our own citizenry from harm -- just as Israel has, appropriately, largely ignored world opinion critical of its actions last week.

"Palestinian terrorism is not a plea to Israel to relieve material needs," suggested Louis Rene Beres, sadly, "but rather a demand to die so that Arabs can realize their spiritual wants." So an Israel-hating world may well call for restraint in Gaza as the IDF neutralizes Hamas’ ability to spread its homicidal ideology, but Israel certainly is not violating international law in this incursion, nor does it ever have to enter into a suicide pact in the often morally-defective universe of world diplomacy.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30137

AusieOi
The way you gloss over shock and awe is just classif. War is he11. What a moronic and stupid soporific statement, so typical.

Classif? Who is moronic?

AusieOi
In Australia , we don’t even read the letters anymore about the entire Palestine Israel issue. Its obvious to those who want to see. Only Zionist jews and Israelis and their Christian fundo nutjob friends even bother defending the state of Israel anymore.
The problem is that they are SO militant about it, that they shut down all debate and expressions of concern for Palestinians by saying “anti semitical” and “holocaust deniers” and they then trot out their 500 line articles by Israeli mouthpieces justifying their actions so as to defend themselves.

Is “anti semitical” a word?

AusieOi
But its beyond apparent. Its as bad as hearing the Nazi’s go on about protecting themselves from those terrorist Jews in the Warsaw ghetto.

??

AusieOi
For the life of me I will never understand 2 things. 1) Why and LDS comes off a mission and joins the US military (an institution run by and fulfilling the mission of Lucifer),

Because they love their country and want to defend it against our enemies.

AusieOi
and 2) why people even try to defend Zionist settlers and the Israeli War Machine.

Because the “Israeli War Machine” is the only thing keeping the millions of Jews in the Holy Land alive.

AusieOi
But knowing enough I know that there is big money in them employing people to sit on web rooms and manage the discussion as well as send letter after letter to newspapers, and complain to media and government when a sympathetic story to Palestinians ever makes it into the media. They just grind journalists down and go for blood demanding they be sacked, so journos don’t risk their job by writing about it.

??

AusieOi
Hence you do a great job of perpetuating the misery of millions

The misery of the Jews and Arabs could end today if the fanatical ‘Palestinian’ leaders would accept Israel’s right to exist and negotiate.

AusieOi
So if the UN told Mexico that they can have Texas and so they invaded it and imprisoned the US citizens and killed 300,000 US citizens fit that would make it acceptable?

They used to have Texas. Mexican and ‘gringo’ Texans declared independence from them and then later joined the US.

AusieOi
So if the UN told the USA that they can have Iraq and Afghanistan to do with as they see fit that would make it acceptable...oh wait

Yea we made Iraq and Afghanistan the 51st and 52nd state and took all their oil, gold and resources…oh wait.

AusieOi
The whole debate is pointless. Its not like 9/11 or Fluoride where people want the information and make their mind up and change it. When it comes to Israel you either do or you don’t accept the reality of the situation.

I agree with you 100% AusieOi.

AusieOi
Those Christians married to the view that Israel is a strong religious word in our tradition simply run that line and are ignorant to the reality of what the state truly is. Satan laughs at them, they do his work for them.

No ‘those Christians” AND “those Mormons” read the scriptures and the words of the modern prophets and believe their words. Satan is gnashing his teeth in frustration and can’t wait for the second Holocaust to begin.

AusieOi
Meanwhile, because there can be no debate, people express their animosity to the state as a people, and say “I hate Israel” and “I am sick of those whining Jews” and so forth, thus elements of anti-Semitism emerge. And who wins by that? Satan once again

I think that those who read the posts on this forum can judge for themselves who is anti-Semitic and who hates the nation of Israel.

AusieOi
SO keep posting excuses for Israel .

OK.

AusieOi
Show your ignorance and stubbornness.

I think I have shown my knowledge of the FACTS, AusieOi, while you have shown so little.

AusieOi
Keep sending them money to buy your military technology to on sell to China and North Korea and your enemies.

OK

AusieOi
Stifle debate

No, I like to debate and discuss the issues with you AusieOi.

AusieOi
Post threads showing how evil Palestinians are and how Israel with its nuclear weapons and worlds 6th largest military force must be defended from stone throwing youth and the occasional fool with a bomb strapped to himself.

It’s a shame that Israel has had to spend so much money defending itself from her enemies that surround her. Would be much better if the Arabs would bury their hatred for the Jews and accept Israel as their neighbour as have the over 1 ½ million Arabs who live within Israel. They seem to be able to bear the existence of Jews in the Holy Land. Why can’t the rest?

AusieOi
Just remember, everyone has already made their mind up..and most people are sick of the state of Israel ...

??

AusieOi
and could hardly care if it were wiped off a map (not that it militarily and practically can I might add)....

Oh it could very easily. Just look at the maps on Palestinian and Arab websites. Every Arab country’s goal is to kill all the Jews and make ‘Palestine’ a Muslim nation.

AusieOi
and Gee, who wins if that happens.

Fanatical Islamists, Jihadists, Anti-Semites, White Supremacists, Those who are striving to establish a Caliphate in the ME with Jerusalem as its capital, Neo-Nazis…….Satan. That’s why it won’t happen. I read the back of the book, AusieOi, God wins.

AusieOi
Great job.

Thank You.

[sbsion]

This whole discussion is disturbing. I think as a new poster I will have to work into this heavy stuff. I was looking for religion!

everything in life is about religiion, here we discussion a wider view

[AussieOi]

Do me a favour and stop being smarty pants with the ?? for spelling "ewrrors" where the wording is nonetheless clear
Do you want me to pick you up for spelling my handle incorrectly?

All I can say is that you are a dying breed of what we call here a nasty type.

Also, if the Arabs want to murder all Jews (who is perpetuating stereotypes and race hate here?) why was there a thriving homogenous Jewish population in Iraq and Iran? Well, there was one in IRaq, but they, and Christians, and Coptics, and Essenes, have all been squeezed out
But Iran.
So tell me again about all those Arab nations who want to murder all the Jews again?
Dear me the ignorance in your beliefs are breathtaking

Finally, your posts do little more than demonstrate how people who believe they are good were able to participate in the Inquisition.

I mean just because our scriptures suggest that the Jews are being gathered to Palestine, does not mean they can own the land, or take it any more than buy it, nor does it mean they can in turn marginalise and oppress those living there while stealing their lands

IIRC Isn't the North American continent promised to the Lamanites? Do you suggest they can take your land imprison your kids and put a wall up around Salt LAke City while they steal more land and bulldoze temple square?

And if we want to say ownership, well, the LDS are the owners of Israel/ palestine pal. Its our birthright, we are Israel...they are just Jews, and as Jews all they have is the keys of the gathering restored, thats all

But yeah, those with a piece of paper saying they've owned some land for 500 years in their family, sure, they should just walk away from their land and move into the Gaza Ghetto and let settlers have it. Becauwe thats what "gathered "means to you no?

[Mark]

And if we want to say ownership, well, the LDS are the owners of Israel/ palestine pal. Its our birthright, we are Israel...they are just Jews, and as Jews all they have is the keys of the gathering restored, thats all

WOW! You need to do a gospel scriptural search on the Lords covenants with the Jews in the worst way Aussie. Then read the words of many Prophets including Pres. Benson who have spoken at length of these promises made by the Lord to our Jewish Brethren. You are just embarrassing yourself here with all your anti Jewish drivel. I think 2nd Nephi 29:5 was written just for you mate. Get a clue.

[sbsion]

Aussie is right on, it's all a POV, Satan or the Lord, get a clue

[Mark]

Aussie is right on, it's all a POV, Satan or the Lord, get a clue

You would think that Stan the man. 2 peas in a pod. #-o

[Col. Flagg]

Aussie is right on, it's all a POV, Satan or the Lord, get a clue

You would think that Stan the man. 2 peas in a pod. #-o

Mark, there is plenty of evidence indicting Israel's Mossad in the 9/11 operation and their government is just as corrupt as most others on the planet. I think it's important to distinguish though between the Israeli people in general because often times the governments and its people get lumped together as one when they are two entirely separate groups with the people typically being innocent and/or oblivious to the goings on in their governments as far as evil and corruption. Thus, when I hear someone say 'we need to support Israel', I'll agree we need to support the Israelis in general as a people, but their government? No way. Problem is, how can you support the Israeli people and not their government when the government makes the decisions? :-\

[Original_Intent]

And if we want to say ownership, well, the LDS are the owners of Israel/ palestine pal. Its our birthright, we are Israel...they are just Jews, and as Jews all they have is the keys of the gathering restored, thats all

WOW! You need to do a gospel scriptural search on the Lords covenants with the Jews in the worst way Aussie. Then read the words of many Prophets including Pres. Benson who have spoken at length of these promises made by the Lord to our Jewish Brethren. You are just embarrassing yourself here with all your anti Jewish drivel. I think 2nd Nephi 29:5 was written just for you mate. Get a clue.

Mark, there are other things to take into account. For instance we have Revelation warning us of Jews that are not Jews, but are the Synagogue of Satan. Speaking against THOSE Jews I don;t consider to be anti-semitic at all!

Do you realize that there are tribes of Jews scattered throughout the world that do not feel that Israel has been established, as they feel that Israel is being run by these "Jews who are not Jews".

We are told that the entire world will be against Jerusalem at some point...we are NOT told that the Jews in Jerusalem at that time are particularly righteous. In fact, Jerusalem has its own cleansing to go thru...I have seen othing that tells me that we should be gung-ho supporters of Israel's CURRENT government, however much of a bond that I feel for those Jews who truly are Jews.

I don;t have an anti-semitic bone in my body. I think there are some amazing and incredible Jewish people out there! Many would put most LDS to complete shame! But I certainly don;t have a lot of love for the Israeli government, and I think it is an egregious error to equate bad talking Israel the nation and the government to speaking evil of Jews in general.

[Mark]

Aussie is right on, it's all a POV, Satan or the Lord, get a clue

You would think that Stan the man. 2 peas in a pod. #-o

Mark, there is plenty of evidence indicting Israel's Mossad in the 9/11 operation and their government is just as corrupt as most others on the planet. I think it's important to distinguish though between the Israeli people in general because often times the governments and its people get lumped together as one when they are two entirely separate groups with the people typically being innocent and/or oblivious to the goings on in their governments as far as evil and corruption. Thus, when I hear someone say 'we need to support Israel', I'll agree we need to support the Israelis in general as a people, but their government? No way. Problem is, how can you support the Israeli people and not their government when the government makes the decisions? :-\

I understand fully the differences here Col. Yet that lumping process seems to occur more times than not when the Israeli's are referenced here. Its like saying that I am an evil person because Obama is my President and Holder is my Attorney General. That is ridiculous. To implicate an entire nation of people because of the actions of some evil and conspiring men in govt. is beyond the pale. But the demonization process rolls along in the minds of some here.

You do have to admit that the Jews have a big bullseye painted on them around the globe. Just look at the way the United Nations responds whenever a dispute involving Israel come up. They are most often found to be in the wrong. Demonization of the Jews is alive and well around the globe no matter what Aussie thinks.

[Col. Flagg]

I understand fully the differences here Col. Yet that lumping process seems to occur more times than not when the Israeli's are referenced here. Its like saying that I am an evil person because Obama is my President and Holder is my Attorney General. That is ridiculous.

Of course it is.

To implicate an entire nation of people because of the actions of some evil and conspiring men in govt. is beyond the pale.

Yup.

But the demonization process rolls along in the minds of some here.

IMHO, there is one reason and one reason only why the Jews are so villified and hated across the world... money - I hate to say it, but they started usury and continue it today with many Jews being in prominent positions in banking, finance and even at the government levels and it is this obsession with greed and the resultant usury of people that has the world enraged. Ben Bernanke is the world's biggest fiend and criminal and he's a Jew that heads the private 'Fed'.

You do have to admit that the Jews have a big bullseye painted on them around the globe.

For the reason indicated above - a race of people aren't despised for nothing.

Demonization of the Jews is alive and well around the globe no matter what Aussie thinks.

Yes, but it may be due to reasons you may not have stopped to consider.

[Oldemandalton]

Part I

AusieOi:
Also, if the Arabs want to murder all Jews (who is perpetuating stereotypes and race hate here?) why was there a thriving homogenous Jewish population in Iraq and Iran? Well, there was one in IRaq, but they, and Christians, and Coptics, and Essenes, have all been squeezed out
But Iran.

I am probably a worse speller than you, AusieOi, so here is a hint: Write your post on a word document then paste in in. Technology and modern conveniences are fantastic.

BTW Iran is Persian, not Arab., AusieOi.

It was so good for the Jews in Iran that 75% of them left after the 1979 Islamic Revolution.





Silent Nightmare of Iranian Jews

By Robert J. Avrech|December 27, 2007

Another patch of Muslim soil has become uninhabitable for Jews.

In Iran, Jews are tolerated as dhimmis, but conditions are deteriorating at a pretty steady rate. State sanctioned anti-Jewish policies make an authentic Torah life almost impossible. A trickle of Persian Jews are making their way to Israel. It’s vital that we get every Jew out of Iran as quickly as possible, before disaster strikes.

Why Iranian Jews, and why now?

“Because their lives are at stake,” answered Jankelovitz simply. “They are in a unique situation because of the regime. There are increased cases of discrimination. Learning the Hebrew language has been banned. Jewish day schools have been closed down—all of them. There are no more Jewish day schools in Iran,” he said.

Jewish children have to go to school on Shabbat, and on all Jewish holidays including Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar.

“They come with nothing but the clothes on their backs and a small suitcase with almost no money at all,” said Jankelovitch. “Their money is worthless because of the exchange rate. People live in a beautiful house which they sell and it is not even worth $10,000.”

To read the complete article, please click here. http://www.israelunitycoalition.org/new ... hp?id=2158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let me also add a personal note. I live in Los Angeles. There is a large emigre Persian Jewish community here. Many are my friends and they tell me that they are in contact with relatives who remain in Persia where conditions are gradually becoming worse for the Jewish community.

The Persian Jews are caught between a rock and a hard place. They are forced to take part in government demonstrations where they must chant “Death to America” and “Death to Israel.” If they refuse they will be arrested as Zionist spies. They must also tell journalists that life under Islamic rule is just wonderful. In short, they must lie or be arrested as, you guessed it, Zionist spies.

If the Persian Jews make applications to emigrate from Iran their wealth and property are stripped by the Islamic Republic. The Mullahs divide the spoils among their relatives and henchmen.

The 25,000 Jews of Iran are the last Jews of any sizable number still living under Muslim rule.

All other Muslim states are Judenrein ("cleansed of Jews").

In about 5 years, the Shia state of Iran will also be Judenrein and for the first time since the 7th century Islam will have succeeded in making life so intolerable for their Jewish citizens that all 23 Muslim states on planet earth—I’m including Gaza as the Pali state—will be rendered Judenrein.
Oh, the Christians in Gaza are not doing very well, their days are quite clearly numbered.

Okay, there are about 2,000 Jews hanging on by a thread in Morocco. They will be gone in one generation. Who knows what the next king’s policies will usher in. There have already been terrorist attacks against the Moroccan Jewish community. The writing is on the wall.
No Jews in Jordan. No Jews in Algeria. No Jews in Tunisia. Saudi Arabia officially bars Jews from setting foot on Saudi soil. Charming local custom. Yemen, maybe 100 old and dying Jews. Syria, the same. Egypt, the same. Libya, none. Iraq, done. Afghanistan, one crazy old Jew who lives in the Kabul synagogue all by himself. Pakistan? You’ve got to be kidding. No Jews in the UAE.

http://www.seraphicpress.com/silent-nig ... nian-jews/





Religious Persecution of Jews by Arabs

Before the Jewish state was established, there existed nothing to harm good relations between Arabs and Jews.
-- The late King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, November 1973, to Henry Kissinger

We are not against the Jews. On the contrary, we are all Semites and we have been living with each other in peace and fraternity, Muslims,
Jews and Christians, for many centuries.
-Yasser Arafat, head of the PLO

Since the rebirth of Israel, hundreds of thousands of Jews from Arab lands have swarmed into the new state. In 1948 more than 850,000 Jews lived in the Arab world. Today there are fewer than 29,000, a shadow of the former ancient community. Most of those Jewish refugees fled to Israel. Where did they come from with such urgency -- and why?

Contrary to the myth that Jews lived in harmony with the Arabs before the Zionist state, innumerable authoritative works document decisively the subjugation, oppression, and spasmodic anti-Jewish eruptions of violence that darkened the existence of the Jews in Muslim Arab countries.
In truth, before the seventh-century advent of the Prophet Muhammad and Islam, Jews and Arabs did have harmonious relations, and words of praise regarding the noble virtues of the Jews may be found in ancient Arab literature.1

Before the Arab conquest, in fact, some rulers of Arabia "had indeed embraced Judaism," as Muslim historians attest.

The Koran itself has been witness to the Jewish nature of the "Israelite communities of Arabia": Koranic references appear about the rabbis and the Torah which they read, and the prestige and reverence with which the earlier community viewed them.2

The Koran contains so many legends and theological ideas found in Talmudic literature that we are able to draw a picture of the spiritual life of the Jews with whom Mohammad must have come into contact.3

It was the Prophet Muhammad himself who attempted to negate the positive tutelage of the Jew that had been prevalent earlier. According to historian Bernard Lewis, the Prophet Muhammad's original plan had been to induce the Jews to adopt Islam;4 when Muhammad began his rule at Medina in A.D. 622 he counted few supporters, so he adopted several Jewish practices-including daily prayer facing toward Jerusalem and the fast of Yom Kippur-in the hope of wooing the Jews. But the Jewish community rejected the Prophet Muhammad's religion, preferring to adhere to its own beliefs, whereupon Muhammad subsequently substituted Mecca for Jerusalem, and dropped many of the Jewish practices.

Three years later, Arab hostility against the Jews commenced, when the Meccan army exterminated the Jewish tribe of Quraiza.5 As a result of the Prophet Muhammad's resentment, the Holy Koran itself contains many of his hostile denunciations of Jews6 and bitter attacks upon the Jewish tradition, which undoubtedly have colored the beliefs of religious Muslims down to the present.

Omar, the caliph who succeeded Muhammad, delineated in his Charter of Omar the twelve laws under which a dhimmi, or non-Muslim, was allowed to exist as a "nonbeliever" among "believers." The Charter codified the conditions of life for Jews under Islam -- a life which was forfeited if the dhimmi broke this law. Among the restrictions of the Charter: Jews were forbidden to touch the Koran; forced to wear a distinctive (sometimes dark blue or black) habit with sash; compelled to wear a yellow piece of cloth as a badge (blue for Christians); not allowed to perform their religious practices in public; not allowed to own a horse, because horses were deemed noble; not permitted to drink wine in public; and required to bury their dead without letting their grief be heard by the Muslims.7

As a grateful payment for being allowed so to live and be "protected," a dhimmi paid a special head tax and a special property tax, the edict for which came directly from the Koran: "Fight against those [Jews and Christians] who believe not in Allah ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."8

In addition, Jews faced the danger of incurring the wrath of a Muslim, in which case the Muslim could charge, however falsely, that the Jew had cursed Islam, an accusation against which the Jew could not defend himself Islamic religious law decreed that, although murder of one Muslim by another Muslim was punishable by death, a Muslim who murdered a non-Muslim was given not the death penalty, but only the obligation to pay "blood money" to the family of the slain infidel. Even this punishment was unlikely, however, because the law held the testimony of a Jew or a Christian invalid against a Muslim, and the penalty could only be exacted under improbable conditions-when two Muslims were willing to testify against a brother Muslim for the sake of an infidel.9

The demeanment of Jews as represented by the Charter has carried down through the centuries, its implementation inflicted with varying degrees of cruelty or inflexibility, depending upon the character of the particular Muslim ruler. When that rule was tyrannical, life was abject slavery, as in Yemen, where one of the Jews' tasks was to clean the city latrines and another was to clear the streets of animal carcasses-without pay, often on their Sabbath.

The restrictions under Muslim law always included the extra head tax regardless of the ruler's relative tolerance. This tax was enforced in some form until 1909 in Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey; until 1925 in Iran; and was still enforceable in Yemen until the present generation. The clothing as well as the tax and the physical humiliation also varied according to whim. Thus, in Morocco, Jews had to wear black slippers,10 while in Yemen, Jewish women were forced to wear one white and one black shoe.11*

[* The edict set by the Sultan of Morocco in 1884 varies somewhat, as did most interpretations of the dhimma law. His restrictions also included insistence that Jews work on their sacred day of rest; carry heavy burdens on their backs; work without pay; clean foul places and latrines; part with merchandise at half price; lend beasts of burden without payment; accept false coinage instead of negotiable currency; take fresh skins in return for tanned hides; hold their beds and furniture at the disposal of government guests, etc.]

Jews were relegated to Arab-style Jewish ghettos -- hara, mellah, or simply Jewish Quarter were the names given the areas where Jews resided -- recorded by travelers over the centuries, as well as by Jewish chroniclers. A visitor to four-teenth-century Egypt, for example, commented in passing12 on the separate Jew-quarter, and five hundred years later another visitor in the nineteenth century verified the continuation of the separated Jewish existence: "There are in this country about five thousand Jews (in Arabic, called 'Yahood'; singular, 'Yahoodee'), most of whom reside in the metropolis, in a miserable, close and dirty quarter, intersected by lanes, many of which are so narrow as hardly to admit two persons passing each other in them."13

In 1920, those Jewish families in Cairo whose financial success had allowed them out of the ghetto, under relatively tolerant rule, had been replaced by "poor Jewish immigrants." Thus, although the character of the population may have changed, the squalor and crowding remained. As one writer, a Jew, observed:

Our people are crowded and clustered into houses about to collapse, in dark cellars, narrow alleys and crooked lanes choked with mud and stinking refuse, earning their meagre living in dark shops and suffocating workshops, toiling back to back, sunscorched and sleepless. Their hard struggle for existence both inside and outside the home is rewarded by a few beans and black bread.14

Under no circumstances were Jews considered truly equal. Among the Jews in Arab lands were many individual personal successes and regionalized intermittent prosperity, but the tradition of persecution was characteristic throughout most of Jewish history under Arab rule.15 If the dhimmi burdens were light in one particular region, the Jew had the residue of fear left from the previous history of pogroms and humiliations in this area. These harsh and ancient dhimma restrictions persisted even up to the present time to some degree, in some Arab communities, and their spirit -- if not their letter -- continued generally throughout the Arab world.16

Throughout the centuries, the Jews were the first to suffer persecution in times of economic turmoil or political upheaval,17 and the cumulative effect of the sporadic mass murders left their mark on the Jews even in periods of relative quiescence. In Syria, the infamous blood libel of 1840 brought about the death, torture, and pillage of countless Jews falsely accused of murdering a priest and his servant to collect the blood for Passover matzoth!18 Before the Jews were finally vindicated of this slander, word of the charges had spread far from Damascus, causing terror in numerous Jewish communities.

The scurrilous blood libel has not been purged from Arab literature, however. In fact, the Arabs seem in the past two decades to have seized upon this primitive old calumny with renewed vigor. In 1962 the UAR (Egyptian) Ministry of Education published "Human Sacrifices in the Talmud" as one of a series of official "national" books. Bearing on its cover the symbol of the Egyptian Institute for Publications, this modem book is a reprint of an 1890 work by a writer in Cairo.19 In the introduction, the editor shares his discovery: "conclusive evidence ... that this people permits bloodshed and makes it a religious obligation laid down by the Talmud." The editor's description becomes more vile as it purports to become more explicit regarding the "Indictment."20

Two years later, in 1964, a professor at the University of Damascus published his own affirmation of the nineteenth-century blood libel, stating that the wide attention given the story served a valid purpose: to wam mothers against letting their children out late at night, "lest the Jew ... come and take their blood for the purpose of making matzot for Passover."21 Still another version, also published in the 1960s, "The Danger of World Jewry to Islam and Christianity," alleges that thousands of children and others disappear each year, and all of them are victims of guess who?22

They've even dramatized the infamous canard for the theater. In November 1973, a former minister in the Egyptian Foreign Service published a play based on the 1840 blood libel in Damascus-replete with gory descriptions-in a widely circulated Egyptian weekly.23 During the same month the late Saudi Arabian King Faisal stressed the importance of the blood libel of 1840 in Damascus as a requisite to understanding "Zionist crime."24 And in 1982, shortly after Israel transferred its much coveted Sinai territory to Egypt for a more coveted peace, the Egyptian press (govemment-run) dredged up inflammatory variations on the horrible theme. Two examples: ". . . The Israelis are Israelis and their favorite drink is Arab blood... ."25 and "A Jew ... drinks their blood for a few coins."26

The departure of European colonists in the twentieth century brought into being a highly nationalistic group of Arab states, which increasingly perceived their Jews as a new political threat.* The previous Arab Muslim ambivalence -- an ironic possessive attitude toward "their" Jews, coupled with the omnipresent implementing of the harsh dhimma law -- was gradually replaced by a completely demoniacal and negative stereotype of the Jew. Traditional Koranic slurs against the Jews were implemented to incite hostility toward the Jewish national movement. The Nazi anti-Semitism in the 1930s and 1940s flourished in this already receptive climate.

Although Arabs themselves frequently speak of "anti-Semitism" as synonymous with anti-Jewishness -- before the 1947 partition, for example, Egyptian UN Representative Haykal Pasha warned the General Assembly that partition would bring "anti-Semitism" worse than Hitler's27 -- frequently they justify or obscure an anti-Jewish action by saying, "How can I be anti-Semitic? I'm a Semite myself." According to Professor S. D. Goitein, "the word 'semitic' was coined by an l8th-century German scholar, concerned with linguistics.... The idea of a Semitic race was invented and cultivated in particular in order to emphasize the inalterable otherness and alien character of the Jews living in Europe."28

Another eminent Arabist, Bernard Lewis, dates the invention of the term "anti-Semitism" to 1862, although "the racial ideology that gave rise to it was already well established in the early 19th century. Instead of -- or as well as -- an unbeliever ... the Jew was now labeled as a member of an alien and inferior race... "29]

As early as 1940 the Muffi of Jerusalem requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right "to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy."30*

[* For a discussion of Jewish-Arab relations in Palestine, see The Myth of Palestinian Nationalism, narrowly defined, anti-Semitism]

Hitler's crimes against the Jews have frequently been justified in Arab writings and pronouncements. In the 1950s, Minister Anwar Sadat published an open letter to Hitler, hoping he was still alive and sympathizing with his cause. Important Arab writers and political figures have said Hitler was "wronged and slandered, for he did no more to the Jews than Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, the Romans, the Byzantines, Titus, Mohammed and the European peoples who slaughtered the Jews before him." Or that Hitler wanted to "save ... the world from this malignant evil..." 31

Arab defense of the Nazis' extermination of the Jews has persisted: prominent Egyptian writer Anis Mansour wrote in 1973 that "People all over the world have come to realize that Hitler was right, since Jews . . . are bloodsuckers . . . interested in destroying the whole world which has . . . expelled them and despised them for centuries ... and burnt them in Hitler's crematoria ... one million ... six millions. Would that he had finished it!"32

Mansour alleged at another time that the vicious medieval blood libel was historical truth: "the Jews confessed" that they had killed the children and used their blood; thus he justifies persecution and pogroms of "the wild beasts."33 That article was followed by a "report," after Mansour returned from representing Egypt at the Fortieth International PEN (writers') Conference in 1975 in Vienna. In it, Mansour continued the theme: "The Jews are guilty" for Nazism; ". . . the world can only curse the Jews ... The Jews have only themselves to blame." Mansour was angry that "the whole world" protested "all because" a "teacher" told the Jewish waiter serving him in Vienna that Hitler committed a grave error in not doing away with more of you ....'"34

It was from such a climate that the Jews had escaped, seeking refuge in Israel.

1. Bernard Lewis, The Arabs in History, 4th rev. ed. (New York, Evanston, San Francisco, London: Harper-Colophon Books, 1966), pp. 31-32; S.D. Goitein, A Mediterranean Society, vols. I and 11 (Berkeley, Los Angeles, London: 197-1), p. 28; see also H.Z. Hirschberg, The Jews in Islamic Lands, 2nd rev. ed. (Leiden, 1974).
2.S.D. Goitein, Jews and Arabs, Their Contacts Through the Ages, 3rd ed. (New York: Schocken Books, 1974), p. 49.
3. Ibid., p. 50.
4.Lewis, Arabs in History, p. 42; also see Norman A. Stillman, The Jews ofArab Lands.- A History and Source Book (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1979), pp. 113-114. For further information and fascinating reading, the Stillman work provides new and in-depth insights into the "Jewish social history in the Arab world, spanning 1500 years," with original translations from Arabic and other languages.
5. Lewis, Arabs in History, p. 45, pp. 38-48. See Chapter 8.
6.See examples in Chapter 4; also see Stillman, The Jews, "Some Koranic Pronouncements on the Jews," pp. 150-151.
7.Andre Chouraqui, Between East and West, A History of the Jews of North Africa, trans. from French by Michael M. Bernet (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1968), pp. 45-46; D.G. Littman, Jews Under Muslim Rule in the Late Nineteenth Century, reprinted from the Weiner Library Bulletin, 1975, vol. XXVIII, New Series Nos. 35/36 (London, 1975), p. 65.
8.The Meaning of the Glorious Koran, Surah IX, v. 29, Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, ed. (New York: Mentor Books, 1953).
9.Chouraqui, Between East and West, p. 46. Also see Hayyim Cohen, The Jews of the Middle East 1860-1972 (New York, 1973); S.D. Goitein, Jews and Arabs.
10. World Jewish Congress, The Jews ofFrench Morocco and Tunisia (New York, 1952).
11. Saul Friedman, "The Myth of Arab Toleration," Midstream, January 1970; Goitein, Jews and Arabs, p. 67T
12. Ibn Battuta, Ibn Battuta Travels in Asia and Africa 1325-1354, trans. and selected with introduction and notes by H.A.R. Gibb (London, 1929), p. 125.
13. Edward William Lane, Manners and Customs of the Modern Egyptians 1833-1835 (London, New York, Melbourne: 1890), p. 512.
14. The visit to Harat al-Yahud, Cairo's Jewish Quarter, was recorded in letters from a journalist in Arabic dated June I I and June 18, 1920, cited by Jacob M. Landau, Jews in Nineteenth Century Egypt (New York, 1969), pp. 30-31.
15. Hayyim J. Cohen, The Jews ofthe Middle East 1860-1972 (Jerusalem, 1973), pp. 1-3.
16. See interviews in Chapter 6.
17. Goitein, Jews and Arabs, pp. 6-7, 87, 88, for examples.
18. Heinrich Graetz, History of the Jews, 5 vols. (New York, 1927), vol. 5, pp. 634-639.
19. By Habib Faris, 1890, original title in newspaper, 1890: "The Cry of the Innocent with the Trumpet of Freedom," originally published in Egyptian newspaper al-Mahrusa, then as 1890 book, Human Sacrifices in the Talmud Book republished in 1962 as one of a series of information pamphlets, "National Books," no. 184, 1962, 164 pages, listed as one of the publications by UAR Ministry of Education, # 393 1, edited by Abd a]-Ati Jalal, introduction dated June 16, 1962. Cited by Y. Harkabi, Arab Attitudes to Israel (Jerusalem, 1971), pp. 270-271.
20. Ibid., cited in Harkabi, Arab Attitudes, p. 271.
21.Abd al-Karim Gharayiba, Suriyyafi al-Qarn al-TosiAshar 1840-1876 (Cairo, 1961-62), p. 47, cited by Moshe Ma'oz, The Image of the Jew in Official Arab Literature and Communications Media (Jerusalem, 1976), p. 21.
22. 'Abdallah al-Tall, The Danger of World Jewry to Islam and Christianity (in Arabic) (Cairo, 1964), p. 104, cited by Harkabi, Arab Attitudes, pp. 273-274.
23. Mustafa Sa'adani, "The Tragedy of Good Father Thomas," Akhir Saah, November 28, 1973, cited by Ma'oz, The Image of the Jew, p. 22.
24. AI-Soyyad, November 29, 1973, as cited by Ma'oz, The Image of the Jew, p. 23.
25."Sanctifying War and Hating Peace," by Salem al-Yamani, Al-Gumhuriya, June 22, 1982.
26."The Arabs and the Jews-Who Will Destroy Whom?" by Dr. Lutfi Abd Al-Azim, AI-Ahram Iktisadi, September 27, 1982.
27. Official Records of the Second Session of the General Assembly of the United Nations. Summary Record of Meetings 25 September-25 November, 1947, p. 185. During the proposed partition of Palestine, in November, 1947, Egyptian Representative in the United Nations General Assembly, Haykal Pasha, declared that "The Arab governments will do all in their power to defend the Jewish citizens in their countries, but we all know that an excited crowd is sometimes stronger than the police. Unintentionally, you are about to spark an anti-Semitic fire in the Middle East which will be more difficult to extinguish than it was in Germany." The Egyptian spokesman's threat made clear that the Arab world has interpreted the term "anti-Semitism" correctly -- in the only sense it has been used historically -as a definition of anti-Jewish attitude and action. Arabs do not, as Egypt's President Sadat and others have occasionally claimed, use it themselves as a term connoting both Arabs and Jews.
28. Goitein, Mediterranean Society, vol. II, p. 283.
29.Bernard Lewis, Islam in History: Ideas, Men and Events in the Middle East (New York: The Library Press, 1973), p. 136.
30. Fritz Grobba, Manner und Machte im Orient (Zurich, Berlin, Frankfurt, 1967), p. 194-197, 207-208. Bernard Lewis notes that "this draft was an Arab request to the Germans, not a German offer to the Arabs." Also see: Jon Kimche, The Second Arab Awakening (London, 1970); L. Hirszowicz, The Third Reich and the Arab East (London, 1966), particularly regarding Mufti's 1937 contact with the Nazis: p. 34.
31. Sadat's letter, AlMusawwar, No. 1510, September 18,1953, cited in D.F. Green, ed., Arab Theologians on Jews and Israel (Geneva, 1976 ed.), p. 87. Quoted also by Gideon Hausner, November 16, 1971, at New York. Also see Harkabi, Arab Attitudes, pp. 276-277, for other examples.
32. Al-Akhbar, August 19, 1973.
33. Akhar Saah, Cairo, April 10, 1974, cited by Ma'oz, The Image of the Jew, p. 22.
34. Akhar Saah, Cairo, December 3, 1975.
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AusieOi:
So tell me again about all those Arab nations who want to murder all the Jews again?

OK:


“Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history and religion.”
- Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem
(Radio Berlin, March 1, 1944; quoted in Robert Wistrich, Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p47)

“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre or the Crusader wars.”
- Azzam Pasha, Secretary-General of the Arab League
(Akhbar al-Yom, Egypt, October 11, 1947; quoted in David Barnett and Efraim Karsh, “Azzam’s Genocidal Threat,” Middle East Quarterly, Fall 2011)

“If the Jewish state becomes a fact, and this is realized by the Arab peoples, they will drive the Jews who live in their midst into the sea… Even if we are beaten now in Palestine, we will never submit. We will never accept the Jewish state... But for politics, the Egyptian army alone, or volunteers of the Muslim Brotherhood, could have destroyed the Jews.”
- Hassan al-Banna, Muslim Brotherhood founder
(New York Times, August 2, 1948)

“In demanding the return of the Palestinian refugees the Arabs mean their return as masters, not slaves, or to put it more clearly – the intention is the extermination of Israel.”
- Salah al-Din, Egyptian Foreign Minister
(Al-Misri, Egypt, October 11, 1949; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“Israel, to the Arab world, is like a cancer to the human body, and the only way of remedy is to uproot it just like a cancer… Had we united then [in 1948] Israel would not have come into existence. Israel is a serious wound in the Arab world body, and we cannot endure the pain of this wound forever. We don’t have the patience to see Israel remain occupying part of Palestine for long… We Arabs total about 50,000,000. Why don’t we sacrifice 10,000,000 of our number to live in pride and self-respect?”
- King Saud of Saudi Arabia
(New York Times, January 10, 1954)

“We are awaiting aggression by Israel and any supporters of Israel. We will make it a decisive battle and get rid of Israel once and for all… This is the dream of every Arab.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser, President of Egypt
(Washington Post, July 27, 1959)

“If the refugees return to Israel – Israel will cease to exist.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Zuercher Woche, West Germany, September 1, 1961; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“... collective Arab military preparations, when they are completed, will constitute the ultimate practical means for the final liquidation of Israel.”
- Arab League
(Summit Declaration, January 1964; quoted in Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World [Penguin, 2001], p230)

“Our path to Palestine will not be covered with a red carpet or with yellow sand. Our path to Palestine will be covered with blood… In order that we may liberate Palestine, the Arab nation must unite, the Arab armies must unite, and a unified plan of action must be established.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Pre-election speech, 1965; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History [Yale University Press, 2007], p162)


“The day on which the Arab hope for the return of the refugees to Palestine is realized will be the day of Israel’s extermination.”- Abdallah al-Yafi, Lebanese Prime Minister(Al-Hayat, April 29, 1966; quoted in Harris O. Schoenberg, A Mandate for Terror: The United Nations and the PLO [Shapolsky Books, 1989], p239)

“We have decided to drench this land with our blood, to oust you, aggressors, and throw you into the sea for good.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 24, 1966; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p59)

“We will carry on operations until Israel has been eliminated.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, January 16, 1967; quoted in Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p42)

“We challenge you, Eshkol, to try all your weapons. Put them to the test; they will spell Israel’s death and annihilation.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 16, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p82)

“The Zionist barrack in Palestine is about to collapse and be destroyed… Every one of the hundred million Arabs has been living for the past nineteen years on one hope - to live to see the day Israel is liquidated… There is no life, no peace nor hope for the gangs of Zionism to remain in the occupied land.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 18, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p105)

“It is our chance, Arabs, to direct a blow of death and annihilation to Israel and all its presence in our Holy Land. It is a war for which we are waiting and in which we shall triumph.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Voice of the Arabs, May 19, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p105)

“[Syrian forces are ready for] the liberation operation to explode Zionist existence.”
- Hafez Assad, Syrian Defence Minister
(New York Times, May 21, 1967)

“... the time has come to get rid of the Zionist cancer in Palestine.”
- Taher Yahia, Vice-Premier of Iraq
(New York Times, May 21, 1967)

“Fight, Arabs. Let them know that we shall hang the last imperialist soldier with the entrails of the last Zionist.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 23, 1967; quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p59)

“Israel lacks the strength to endure against the Arabs even for one hour. The Arab people’s decision is unfaltering: to wipe Israel off the face of the map…”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, May 23, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p79)

“We knew that by closing the Gulf of Aqaba it might mean war with Israel. [If war comes] it will be total and the objective will be to destroy Israel.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Washington Post, May 27, 1967)

“The hour has come to end Israel’s existence.”
- Sheikh Ahmed Kaftaro, Grand Mufti of Syria
(New York Times, May 28, 1967)

“With the closing of the Straits [of Tiran], Israel faces two possibilities, both of which are blood-soaked: either it will die by strangulation in the wake of the Arab military and economic blockade, or it will die by shooting from the Arab forces surrounding it in the south, north and east.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Radio Cairo, May 27, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p79)

“We shall destroy Israel and those behind Israel.”
- General Tahar Zbiri, Algerian Chief of Staff
(New York Times, May 28, 1967)

“Whoever survives will stay in Palestine, but in my opinion, no-one will remain alive.”
- Ahmed Shuqayri, PLO founder
(Al-Yawm, Lebanon, June 3, 1967; quoted in Moshe Shemesh, “Did Shuqayri Call For ‘Throwing the Jews into the Sea?’” Israel Studies, Summer 2003, p72)

“Strike the enemy’s settlements, turn them into dust, pave the Arab roads with the skulls of Jews.”
- Hafez Assad
(Michael B. Oren, Six Days of War [Oxford University Press, 2002], p293)

“By God, if it is decreed that we have to wade through seven seas of blood and that the whole region has to sink in blood to get revenge for its honor and dignity, then we will wade through the seas of blood.”
- Syrian government broadcast
(Radio Damascus, June 11, 1967, quoted in Walter Laqueur, The Road to War [Pelican Books, 1969], p118)

“The operation of liberation is not merely removing an imperialistic base, but what is more important: the extermination of a society; not only is military defeat the aim in the Palestinian war of liberation, but the liquidation of the Zionist character of the occupied land, whether in manpower or in society.”
- Fatah statement
(Liberation of the Occupied Lands and the Method of Struggle Against Direct Colonialism, September 1967; quoted in Y. Harkabi, The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning [Vallentine Mitchell, 1979], pp47-8)

“The real Palestine problem is the existence of Israel in Palestine. As long as a Zionist existence remains even in a tiny part of it - that will mean occupation. The important thing is to liquidate the Israel occupation, and there is no difference between the territories lately occupied and those occupied before.”
- Egyptian government broadcast
(Radio Cairo, March 17, 1968, quoted in Gil Carl AlRoy, “Do the Arabs Want Peace?” Commentary, February 1974)

“The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the State of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time…” (Article 19); “The Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void.” (Article 20); “… the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence…” (Article 22).
- PLO Covenant
(Palestine National Council, July 1-17, 1968; reprinted Y. Harkabi, The Palestinian Covenant and its Meaning [Vallentine Mitchell, 1979])

“There is no room in the Middle East for Arab nationalism and Zionist nationalism… in the Middle East there is no room for the Arab nation and Israel…”
- Mohammed Heikal, Nasser’s adviser and spokesman
(Al-Ahram, February 21, 1969; quoted in Yehoshafat Harkabi, Palestinians and Israel [Keter Books, 1974], p1)

“We must fight our way to victory on a sea of blood and a horizon of fire.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Wall Street Journal, November 14, 1969)

“I believe that we now have a duty to remove the aggressor from our land and to regain the Arab territory occupied by the Israelis. We can then engage in a clandestine struggle to liberate the land of Palestine, to liberate Haifa and Jaffa.”
- Gamal Abdel Nasser
(Meeting with King Hussein, 1970; quoted in Efraim Karsh, Islamic Imperialism: A History [Yale University Press, 2007], p172)

“We shall never stop until we can go back home and Israel is destroyed… The goal of our struggle is the end of Israel, and there can be no compromises or mediations… the goal of this violence is the elimination of Zionism from Palestine in all its political, economic and military aspects… We don’t want peace, we want victory. Peace for us means Israel’s destruction and nothing else. ”
- Yasser Arafat, PLO chairman
(Washington Post, March 29, 1970)

“There are only two specific Arab goals at present: elimination of the consequences of the 1967 aggression through Israel’s withdrawal from all the lands it occupied that year, and elimination of the consequences of the 1948 aggression through the eradication of Israel. The second goal is not, in fact, specific but abstract, and some of us make the mistake of starting with the second step instead of the first… we should learn from the enemy how to move step by step.”
- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman
(Al-Ahram, February 25, 1971; quoted in Theodore Draper, “The Road to Geneva,” Commentary, February 1974)

“If the political efforts succeed and some sort of a political solution is found which will eliminate the traces of aggression, this would by no means bring an end to our struggle against Zionism and imperialism, and will by no means bring a happy conclusion to our fateful battle against the United States and Israel, because no political settlement whatsoever could eliminate the basic contradiction which exists – and will continue to exist – between the Arab nation on the one hand and American imperialism and Zionism on the other… As long as the racist colonialist entity continues to burden the usurped land of Palestine, there will be a ‘focus’ for threat, expansion and aggression, a ‘center’ for counter-revolution, and a ‘broadcasting station’ for psychological warfare. Thus a political solution cannot by any means bring an end to the battle against the enemy.”
- Ahmed Nabil al-Hilali, Arab Socialist Union, Egypt
(Al-Katib, March 1971; quoted in Yehoshafat Harkabi, Palestinians and Israel [Keter Books, 1974], pp146-7)

“Once again, total Israeli withdrawal, if it were to take place, would be tantamount to showing that military strength is irrelevant to the outcome of the conflict… If you could succeed in bringing it about, you would have passed sentence on the entire state of Israel.”
- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman
(Interview, Journal of Palestine Studies, Autumn 1971, p7)

“The books published about Hitler depict him as a scoundrel who turned on other nations… his favourite dish seems to have been the Jews. He burned and drowned them because they are traitors to every land… People all over the world have come to realise that Hitler was right, since Jews respect neither law, religion, nor moral values. They are bloodsuckers and interested in destroying the whole world so that Israel shall remain. They are interested in destroying the whole world which has thrust them out of its midst, expelled them and despised them for centuries… and burned them in Hitler’s crematoria… one million… two million… six million.”
- Anis Mansour, Sadat’s associate and government commentator
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, August 19, 1973; quoted in New York Times, October 21, 1973)

“The demand for an Israeli withdrawal from all the occupied Arab territory is a partial demand which the Arab states call for as part of a general liberation plan whose purpose is to bring an end to the racist colonial presence in Palestine…”
- Egyptian government editorial
(Al-Gomhouria, Egypt, September 25, 1973; quoted in New York Times, October 21, 1973)

“Our forces continue to pursue the enemy and strike at him and will continue to strike at enemy forces until we regain our positions in our occupied land and continue then until we liberate the whole land.”
- Hafez Assad, President of Syria
(Radio Damascus, October 15, 1973; reprinted in Walter Laqueur, ed., The Israel-Arab Reader [Bantam Books, rev. ed., 1976], p459)

“The issue is not just the liberation of the Arab territories occupied since June 5, 1967, but strikes against the future of Israel more powerfully and in a more profound manner, although this is not obvious right now. This means that if the Arabs are able to liberate their territories occupied since June 5, 1967 by force, what can prevent them in the next stage from liberating Palestine itself by force?”
- Mohammed Heikal, Sadat’s adviser and spokesman
(Al-Ahram, October 19, 1973; quoted in Theodore Draper, “The Road to Geneva,” Commentary, February 1974; Gil Carl AlRoy, “Do the Arabs Want Peace?” Commentary, February 1974)

“All our moves are based on four general principles: continued use of the rifle, no waiving of historical rights, no peace, and no negotiations… Whatever form of government is established in the territory when the shadow of occupation passes away, whenever I address my fighters and revolutionaries, I shall say: ‘Let our rifles be aimed at the beloved land, the land of the homeland, the land of Palestine.’”
- Yasser Arafat
(Al-Safir, Beirut, March 26, 1974; Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1974, pp212-3)

“The [Palestine] Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle, to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated” (Article 2); “Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory…”(Article 8).
- PLO Phased Plan
(Wafa, Beirut, June 9, 1974; Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1974, p224)

“The effort of our generation is to return to the 1967 borders. Afterward the next generation will carry the responsibility.”
- Anwar Sadat, President of Egypt
(Al-Anwar, June 22, 1975; quoted in Y. Harkabi, Arab Strategies and Israel’s Response [Free Press, 1977], p55)

Q: “Are you saying that if Israel withdraws to its pre-’67 borders and recognizes the national rights of the Palestinians to a separate state of your own, the Palestine Liberation Organization would be prepared to accept the reality of Israel’s existence?”
A: “No, I am saying that the Israelis have two choices: to let all the Palestinians return to their land and have this democratic state we propose, or to live in this so-called state of Israel without letting the Palestinians return. If they choose the latter, they will surely die and we will surely win… this Zionist ghetto of Israel must be destroyed… We will unite the whole region in one state, not just Palestine.”
- Farouk Kaddoumi, Director of the PLO Political Department
(Newsweek, January 5, 1976)

“Israel is an alien body in the Arab sea. This body is bound to disappear given the effective medicine – a united Arab front.”
- Abu Hassan, PLO representative
(Foreign Broadcast Information Service, September 26, 1977; quoted in The New Republic, October 18, 1980)

“I want to tell Carter and Begin that when the Arabs set off their volcano there will be only Arabs in this part of the world… Our people will continue to fuel the torch of the revolution with rivers of blood until the whole of the occupied homeland is liberated, the whole of the homeland is liberated, not just a part of it.”
- Yasser Arafat
(Associated Press, March 12, 1979)

“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations… We shall not rest until the day when we return to our home, and until we destroy Israel.”
- Yasser Arafat
(El Mundo, Venezuela, February 11, 1980; The Times, UK, August 5, 1980)

“Fatah is a nationalist revolutionary movement bent on the complete liberation of Palestine [and] the liquidation of the Zionist entity economically, militarily, politically, culturally and intellectually…”
- Fatah Congress resolution
(Associated Press, June 5, 1980)

“Without any doubt the PLO is entirely in agreement with the [Fatah] resolution… We wish at any price to liquidate the State of Israel.”
- Ibrahim Souss, PLO representative
(Europe No. 1 Radio, France, June 16, 1980; The Times, UK, August 5, 1980)

“We shall never allow Israel to live in peace… We shall never recognize Israel, never accept the usurper, the colonialist, the imperialist.”
- Farouk Kaddoumi
(Der Stern, West Germany, July 30, 1981)

“The Prophet of Allah… says: ‘The Last Hour would not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them, and until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim or Servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him…’” (Article 7); “They are behind the French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the revolutions here and there which we have heard of and are hearing of. With wealth they formed secret organizations throughout the world to destroy societies and promote the Zionist cause; these organizations included the Freemasons, the Rotary and Lions clubs, and others... They are behind the First World War… They are behind the Second World War…” (Article 22); “the Zionist plan has no bounds, and after Palestine they wish to expand from the Nile River to the Euphrates… such is their plan in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” (Article 32).
- Hamas Covenant
(Gaza, August 18, 1988; reprinted in Journal of Palestine Studies, Summer 1993, pp122-34)

“Palestine, whose shape resembles a dagger, doesn’t know the meaning of partition. Our independence does not mean the partition of the dagger, but rather, its penetration into the soil of the homeland… Those who expect the collapse of the Zionist structure through one decisive hit… don’t realize how the masses create their own power through a sequence of interrelated historical phases.”
- Ahmed Abd a-Rahman, Fatah chief spokesman
(Falastin al-Thawra, November 27, 1988; Jerusalem Post, December 21, 1988)


“It is [an] incontrovertible fact that Palestine is Arab-Islamic and that the Jews are the scum of humanity that gathered from the four corners of the earth and conquered our land… Treachery flows in their blood, as the Quran testifies.”
- Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad)
(Al-Qabas, November 28, 1989; quoted in Barry Rubin, Revolution Until Victory? The Politics and History of the PLO [Harvard University Press, 1994], p180)

“You Germans have great expertise in the killing of Jews with gas. This interests us in the same way… How [can] this knowledge… be used to destroy Israel?”
- General Amer al-Saadi, Iraqi chemical weapons commander
(Kenneth Timmerman, The Death Lobby [Bantam Books, 1992], p81)

“It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth.”
- Hezbollah statement, issued under Islamic Jihad alias
(United Press International, March 24, 1992)

“We have to accept the [Oslo] deal and wait for a change in the circumstances that could lead to the elimination of Israel.”
- Abu el-Aynayn, PLO commander in Rashidieh, Lebanon
(US News and World Report, September 27, 1993)

“We will not lay down our weapons until complete liberation... Sooner or later we will throw the Zionists into the sea.”
- Lt. Col. Munir Maqdah, PLO commander in Lebanon
(Reuters, October 8, 1993)

“Palestine cannot contain the two of us. It is either us or the Zionists.”
- Abu Imad, PLO military commander in Bourj al-Barajneh, Lebanon
(Jerusalem Report, November 18, 1993)

“We are sure of our victory against the Americans and the Jews as promised by the Prophet: Judgment day shall not come until the Muslim fights the Jew, where the Jew will hide behind trees and stones, and the tree and the stone will speak and say, ‘Muslim, behind me is a Jew. Come and kill him.’”
- Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda leader
(Esquire, February 1999)

“... the criminals, the terrorists - are the Jews… They are the ones who must be butchered and killed, as Allah the Almighty said: ‘Fight them: Allah will torture them at your hands, and will humiliate them and will help you to overcome them’ … Have no mercy on the Jews, no matter where they are, in any country. Fight them, wherever you are. Wherever you meet them, kill them.”
- Dr Ahmad Abu Halabiya, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, October 13, 2000)

“Thanks to Hitler, of blessed memory, who… revenged in advance, against the most vile criminals on the face of the earth. Although we do have a complaint against him, for his revenge on them was not enough.”
- Egyptian government newspaper
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, April 18, 2001; repeated on April 25, 2001)

“No one can ask why Hitler punished the Jews… Did Hitler attack the Jews or did their crime deserve even more?”
- Egyptian government newspaper
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, May 27, 2001)

“Palestine is Arab and must be liberated from the river to the sea and all the Zionists who emigrated to the land of Palestine must leave.”
- Saddam Hussein, Iraqi dictator
(Iraqi Television, May 30, 2001; quoted in Robert Wistrich, Muslim Anti-Semitism: A Clear and Present Danger [American Jewish Committee, 2002], p43)

“We are ambushing the Israelis and cheating them… If we agree to declare our state over what is now 22 percent of Palestine, meaning the West Bank and Gaza, our ultimate goal is the liberation of all historic Palestine from the River to the Sea… We distinguish the strategic, long-term goals from the political phased goals, which we are compelled to temporarily accept due to international pressure.”
- Faisal Husseini, PLO strategist
(Al-Arabi, Egypt, June 24, 2001; Jerusalem Report, July 30, 2001)

“The nature of the Zionist regime is aggressive and the arrival of Ariel Sharon in power has complicated the situation, but the intifada is the countdown for the destruction of Israel.”
- Abdel Halim Khaddam, Vice-President of Syria
(Agence France Presse, July 25, 2001)

“All spears should be directed at the Jews, at the enemies of Allah, the nation that was cursed in Allah’s book. Allah has described them as apes and pigs... We blow them up in Hadera, we blow them up in Tel Aviv and in Netanya… until the Jew will hide behind a stone or a tree, and the stone or the tree will say: Oh Muslim, Oh servant of Allah, a Jew is hiding behind me, come kill him.”
- Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, August 3, 2001)

“... we believe that one of these days, we will enter Jerusalem as conquerors, enter Jaffa as conquerors, enter Haifa as conquerors, enter Ramle and Lod as conquerors… we are convinced that our dead go to Paradise, while the dead of the Jews go to Hell… Oh Allah, show the Jews a black day… Oh Allah, annihilate the Jews and their supporters… Oh Allah, raise the flag of Jihad across the land…”
- Sheikh Ibrahim Madhi, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, April 12, 2002)

“If they [Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”
- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah leader
(Daily Star, Lebanon, October 23, 2002)

“[The Jews] are accursed in heaven and on earth. They are accursed from the day the human race was created and from the day their mothers bore them… These accursed ones are a catastrophe for the human race. They are the virus of the generation, doomed to a life of humiliation and wretchedness… they are the plague of the generation and the bacterium of all time… Thus, the Jews are accursed - the Jews of our time, those who preceded them and those who will come after them, if any Jews come after them. With regard to the fraud of the Holocaust… I, personally and in light of this imaginary tale, complain to Hitler, even saying to him from the bottom of my heart, ‘If only you had done it, brother, if only it had really happened, so that the world could sigh in relief…’”
- Egyptian government newspaper
(Al-Akhbar, Egypt, April 29, 2002)

“As for the bomb being chemical and poisonous, that was an invention by the evil Jordanian intelligence... God knows that should we - and we ask God to shortly empower us to - possess that kind of bomb, we would not hesitate one second to use it on Israeli cities.”
- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Jordanian terrorist leader
(Washington Post, September 27, 2004)

“... the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers… the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations… The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world – except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history… The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.”
- Sheikh Ibrahim Mudeiris, Palestinian Authority cleric
(Palestinian Authority Television, May 13, 2005)

“My message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but Allah, we will chase you everywhere! We are a nation that drinks blood, and we know that there is no blood better than the blood of Jews. We will not leave you alone until we have quenched our thirst with your blood, and our children’s thirst with your blood.”
- Hamas broadcast
(Jerusalem Post, February 17, 2006)

“Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. It is an animal state that recognises no human worth. It is a cancer that should be eradicated.”
- Ghazi Hamad, Hamas spokesman
(BBC, November 8, 2006)

“Israel is weaker than a spider web. The future of Israel is death and perdition... Our martyrs inscribed in blood during the July-August war: Death to Israel.”- Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah
(Al-Manar TV, January 30, 2007)


'Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one.”
- Ahmad Bahr, Palestinian Legislative Council acting speaker
(Sudan TV, April 13, 2007)

“The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.”
- Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
(Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)

“By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.”
- Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia
(Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)

“The treacherous Zionist enemy will never permit us to lessen our revenge towards him or stray from our confrontation against him, until he is wiped off this land, which is saturated with the blood of the martyrs.”
- Ahmad Dahbour, Palestinian Authority propagandist
(Jerusalem Post, March 23, 2008)

“Strike the interests of Jews and Americans, and all those who wield aggression against the Muslims. Today no one can say that we are battling the Jews in Palestine alone.”
- Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda leader
(Associated Press, March 24, 2008)

“The PLO... has not changed its platform even one iota... the Israeli ideology will collapse in its entirety, and we will begin to progress with our own ideology, Allah willing, and drive them out of all of Palestine.”
- Abbas Zaki, Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon
(NBN TV, April 9, 2008)

“I am optimistic that within ten years, Israel will come to its end.”
- Riyad Nasan al-Agha, Syrian Minister of Culture
(Al-Hiwar TV, April 19, 2008)

“Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.”
- Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza
(UPI, May 14, 2008)




Did I miss anyone AussieOi?

[Oldemandalton]

Part II

AusieOi:
Dear me the ignorance in your beliefs are breathtaking

It is funny that you call me ignorant when I site the evidence of my side where you give NONE. I have proven your position false time and again. All you have left are myths and hatred.

AusieOi:
Finally, your posts do little more than demonstrate how people who believe they are good were able to participate in the Inquisition.

Soooo, I put you on a rack until you confessed your bigotry? =))

No, you did that on your own AusieOi.

AusieOi:
I mean just because our scriptures suggest that the Jews are being gathered to Palestine, does not mean they can own the land, or take it any more than buy it, nor does it mean they can in turn marginalise and oppress those living there while stealing their lands

The Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, and live freer in Israel than in any of their neighbours!

The Jews did not steal the land, AusieOi, another myth by the enemies of Israel:




Myths & Facts Online:The Mandatory Period

By Mitchell G. Bard


MYTH

“The British helped the Jews displace the native Arab population of Palestine.” t

FACT


Herbert Samuel

Herbert Samuel, a British Jew who served as the first High Commissioner of Palestine, placed restrictions on Jewish immigration “in the ‘interests of the present population’ and the ‘absorptive capacity’ of the country.”1 The influx of Jewish settlers was said to be forcing the Arab fellahin (native peasants) from their land. This was at a time when less than a million people lived in an area that now supports more than nine million.
The British actually limited the absorptive capacity of Palestine when, in 1921, Colonial Secretary Winston Churchill severed nearly four-fifths of Palestine—some 35,000 square miles—to create a brand new Arab entity, Transjordan. As a consolation prize for the Hejaz and Arabia (which are both now Saudi Arabia) going to the Saud family, Churchill rewarded Sherif Hussein’s son Abdullah for his contribution to the war against Turkey by installing him as Transjordan’s emir.

The British went further and placed restrictions on Jewish land purchases in what remained of Palestine, contradicting the provision of the Mandate (Article 6) stating that “the Administration of Palestine . . . shall encourage, in cooperation with the Jewish Agency . . . close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not acquired for public purposes.” By 1949, the British had allotted 87,500 acres of the 187,500 acres of cultivable land to Arabs and only 4,250 acres to Jews. 2

Ultimately, the British admitted the argument about the absorptive capacity of the country was specious. The Peel Commission said: “The heavy immigration in the years 1933–36 would seem to show that the Jews have been able to enlarge the absorptive capacity of the country for Jews.” 3

MYTH

“The British allowed Jews to flood Palestine while Arab immigration was tightly controlled.”

FACT

The British response to Jewish immigration set a precedent of appeasing the Arabs, which was followed for the duration of the Mandate. The British placed restrictions on Jewish immigration while allowing Arabs to enter the country freely. Apparently, London did not feel that a flood of Arab immigrants would affect the country’s absorptive capacity.

During World War I, the Jewish population in Palestine declined because of the war, famine, disease and expulsion by the Turks. In 1915, approximately 83,000 Jews lived in Palestine among 590,000 Muslim and Christian Arabs. According to the 1922 census, the Jewish population was 84,000, while the Arabs numbered 643,000. 4 Thus, the Arab population grew exponentially while that of the Jews stagnated.

In the mid-1920s, Jewish immigration to Palestine increased primarily because of anti-Jewish economic legislation in Poland and Washington’s imposition of restrictive quotas. 5

The record number of immigrants in 1935 (see table) was a response to the growing persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany. The British administration considered this number too large, however, so the Jewish Agency was informed that less than one-third of the quota it asked for would be approved in 1936. 6

The British gave in further to Arab demands by announcing in the 1939 White Paper that an independent Arab state would be created within 10 years, and that Jewish immigration was to be limited to 75,000 for the next five years, after which it was to cease altogether. It also forbade land sales to Jews in 95 percent of the territory of Palestine. The Arabs, nevertheless, rejected the proposal.
Jewish Immigrants to Palestine 7



Jewish Immigrants to Palestine 7

1919 1,806 1931 4,075
1920 8,223 1932 12,533
1921 8,294 1933 37,337
1922 8,685 1934 45,267
1923 8,175 1935 66,472
1924 13,892 1936 29,595
1925 34,386 1937 10,629
1926 13,855 1938 14,675
1927 3,034 1939 31,195
1928 2,178 1940 10,643
1929 5,249 1941 4,592
1930 4,944


By contrast, throughout the Mandatory period, Arab immigration was unrestricted. In 1930, the Hope Simpson Commission, sent from London to investigate the 1929 Arab riots, said the British practice of ignoring the uncontrolled illegal Arab immigration from Egypt, Transjordan and Syria had the effect of displacing the prospective Jewish immigrants. 8

The British Governor of the Sinai from 1922–36 observed: “This illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria, and it is very difficult to make a case out for the misery of the Arabs if at the same time their compatriots from adjoining states could not be kept from going in to share that misery.” 9

The Peel Commission reported in 1937 that the “shortfall of land is . . . due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” 10

MYTH

“The British changed their policy after World War II to allow the survivors of the Holocaust to settle in Palestine.”

FACT

The gates of Palestine remained closed for the duration of the war, stranding hundreds of thousands of Jews in Europe, many of whom became victims of Hitler’s “Final Solution.” After the war, the British refused to allow the survivors of the Nazi nightmare to find sanctuary in Palestine. On June 6, 1946, President Truman urged the British government to relieve the suffering of the Jews confined to displaced persons camps in Europe by immediately accepting 100,000 Jewish immigrants. Britain’s Foreign Minister, Ernest Bevin, replied sarcastically that the United States wanted displaced Jews to immigrate to Palestine “because they did not want too many of them in New York.” 11

Some Jews were able to reach Palestine, many smuggled in by way of dilapidated ships organized by members of the Jewish resistance organizations. Between August 1945 and the establishment of the State of Israel in May 1948, 65 “illegal” immigrant ships, carrying 69,878 people, arrived from European shores. In August 1946, however, the British began to intern those they caught in camps in Cyprus. Approximately 50,000 people were detained in the camps, 28,000 of whom were still imprisoned when Israel declared independence. 12

MYTH

“As the Jewish population in Palestine grew, the plight of the Palestinian Arabs worsened.”

FACT

The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II, while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. 13 In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947. 14

This rapid growth of the Arab population was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states—constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel—by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. 15 The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943. 16

The Arab population increased the most in cities where large Jewish populations had created new economic opportunities. From 1922–1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem. 17

MYTH

“Jews stole Arab land.”

FACT
Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. From the beginning of World War I, however, part of Palestine’s land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins. 18

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as “the most important asset of the native population.” Ben-Gurion said “under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them.” He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. “Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement,” Ben-Gurion added, “should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.” 19

It was only after the Jews had bought all of the available uncultivated land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry. 20

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: “They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay.” 21

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness for the British government and offered new plots to any Arabs who had been “dispossessed.” British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government’s legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer. 22

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al--Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded. 23

The Peel Commission’s report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that “much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased. . . . there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land.” 24 Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was “due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population.” The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities. 25

“It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping” (emphasis in the original).
— Transjordan’s King Abdullah 26

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews. 27

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. “In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre.” 28

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin. 29 Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As’ad el--Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews. 30

MYTH

“The British helped the Palestinians to live peacefully with the Jews.”

FACT

In 1921, Haj Amin el-Husseini first began to organize fedayeen (“one who sacrifices himself”) to terrorize Jews. Haj Amin hoped to duplicate the success of Kemal Atatürk in Turkey by driving the Jews out of Palestine just as Kemal had driven the invading Greeks from his country. 31 Arab radicals were able to gain influence because the British Administration was unwilling to take effective action against them until they began a revolt against British rule.

Colonel Richard Meinertzhagen, former head of British military intelligence in Cairo, and later Chief Political Officer for Palestine and Syria, wrote in his diary that British officials “incline towards the exclusion of Zionism in Palestine.” In fact, the British encouraged the Palestinians to attack the Jews. According to Meinertzhagen, Col. Waters-Taylor (financial adviser to the Military Administration in Palestine 1919–23) met with Haj Amin a few days before Easter, in 1920, and told him “he had a great opportunity at Easter to show the world . . . that Zionism was unpopular not only with the Palestine Administration but in Whitehall and if disturbances of sufficient violence occurred in Jerusalem at Easter, both General Bols [Chief Administrator in Palestine, 1919–20] and General Allenby [Commander of Egyptian Force, 1917–19, then High Commissioner of Egypt] would advocate the abandonment of the Jewish Home. Waters-Taylor explained that freedom could only be attained through violence.” 32

Haj Amin took the Colonel’s advice and instigated a riot. The British withdrew their troops and the Jewish police from Jerusalem, allowing the Arab mob to attack Jews and loot their shops. Because of Haj Amin’s overt role in instigating the pogrom, the British decided to arrest him. Haj Amin escaped, however, and was sentenced to 10 years imprisonment in absentia.

A year later, some British Arabists convinced High Commissioner Herbert Samuel to pardon Haj Amin and to appoint him Mufti. By contrast, Vladimir Jabotinsky and several of his followers, who had formed a Jewish defense organization during the unrest, were sentenced to 15 years’ imprisonment. 33

Samuel met with Haj Amin on April 11, 1921, and was assured “that the influences of his family and himself would be devoted to tranquility.” Three weeks later, riots in Jaffa and elsewhere left 43 Jews dead. 34

Haj Amin consolidated his power and took control of all Muslim religious funds in Palestine. He used his authority to gain control over the mosques, the schools and the courts. No Arab could reach an influential position without being loyal to the Mufti. His power was so absolute “no Muslim in Palestine could be born or die without being beholden to Haj Amin.” 35 The Mufti’s henchmen also ensured he would have no opposition by systematically killing Palestinians from rival clans who were discussing cooperation with the Jews.

As the spokesman for Palestinian Arabs, Haj Amin did not ask that Britain grant them independence. On the contrary, in a letter to Churchill in 1921, he demanded that Palestine be reunited with Syria and Transjordan. 36

The Arabs found rioting to be an effective political tool because of the lax British response toward violence against Jews. In handling each riot, the British prevented Jews from protecting themselves, but made little or no effort to prevent the Arabs from attacking them. After each outbreak, a British commission of inquiry would try to establish the cause of the violence. The conclusion was always the same: the Arabs were afraid of being displaced by Jews. To stop the rioting, the commissions would recommend that restrictions be placed on Jewish immigration. Thus, the Arabs came to recognize that they could always stop the influx of Jews by staging a riot.

This cycle began after a series of riots in May 1921. After failing to protect the Jewish community from Arab mobs, the British appointed the Haycraft Commission to investigate the cause of the violence. Although the panel concluded the Arabs had been the aggressors, it rationalized the cause of the attack: “The fundamental cause of the riots was a feeling among the Arabs of discontent with, and hostility to, the Jews, due to political and economic causes, and connected with Jewish immigration, and with their conception of Zionist policy. . . .” 37 One consequence of the violence was the institution of a temporary ban on Jewish immigration.

The Arab fear of being “displaced” or “dominated” was used as an excuse for their merciless attacks on peaceful Jewish settlers. Note, too, that these riots were not inspired by nationalistic fervor—nationalists would have rebelled against their British overlords—they were motivated by racial strife and misunderstanding.

In 1929, Arab provocateurs succeeded in convincing the masses that the Jews had designs on the Temple Mount (a tactic still used today). A Jewish religious observance at the Western Wall, which forms a part of the Temple Mount, served as a pretext for rioting by Arabs against Jews that spilled out of Jerusalem into other villages and towns, including Safed and Hebron.

Again, the British Administration made no effort to prevent the violence and, after it began, the British did nothing to protect the Jewish population. After six days of mayhem, the British finally brought troops in to quell the disturbance. By this time, virtually the entire Jewish population of Hebron had fled or been killed. In all, 133 Jews were killed and 399 wounded in the pogroms. 38

After the riots were over, the British ordered an investigation, which resulted in the Passfield White Paper. It said the “immigration, land purchase and settlement policies of the Zionist Organization were already, or were likely to become, prejudicial to Arab interests. It understood the Mandatory’s obligation to the non-Jewish community to mean that Palestine’s resources must be primarily reserved for the growing Arab economy. . . .” 39 This, of course, meant it was necessary to place restrictions not only on Jewish immigration but on land purchases.

MYTH

“The Mufti was not anti-Semitic.”

FACT

In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world.

The Mufti sent Hitler 15 drafts of declarations he wanted Germany and Italy to make concerning the Middle East. One called on the two countries to declare the illegality of the Jewish home in Palestine. He also asked the Axis powers to “accord to Palestine and to other Arab countries the right to solve the problem of the Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the interest of the Arabs, and by the same method that the question is now being settled in the Axis countries.” 40

In November 1941, the Mufti met with Hitler, who told him the Jews were his foremost enemy. The Nazi dictator rebuffed the Mufti’s requests for a declaration in support of the Arabs, however, telling him the time was not right. The Mufti offered Hitler his “thanks for the sympathy which he had always shown for the Arab and especially Palestinian cause, and to which he had given clear expression in his public speeches. . . . The Arabs were Germany’s natural friends because they had the same enemies as had Germany, namely. . . . the Jews. . . .” Hitler told the Mufti he opposed the creation of a Jewish state and that Germany’s objective was the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere. 41

In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He escaped from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight against the Jews from Cairo and later Beirut.

MYTH

“The bombing of the King David Hotel was part of a deliberate terror campaign against civilians.”

FACT

British troops invaded the Jewish Agency on June 29, 1946, and confiscated large quantities of documents. At about the same time, more than 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. A week later, news of a massacre of 40 Jews in a pogrom in Poland reminded the Jews of Palestine how Britain’s restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death.

As a response to what it viewed as British provocations, the Irgun decided to target the King David Hotel. Besides guests, the hotel housed the British military command and the British Criminal Investigation Division and was the place where information about Jewish Agency operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries, was taken.

Irgun leader Menachem Begin stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualties. In fact, the plan was to warn the British so they would evacuate the building before it was blown up. Three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, another to the French Consulate, and a third to the Palestine Post, warning that explosives in the King David Hotel would soon be detonated.


King David Hotel after the bombing

On July 22, 1946, the calls were made. The call into the hotel was apparently received and ignored. Begin quotes one British official who supposedly refused to evacuate the building, saying: “We don’t take orders from the Jews.” 42 As a result, when the bombs exploded, the casualty toll was high: a total of 91 killed and 45 injured. Among the casualties were 15 Jews. Few people in the hotel proper were injured by the blast. 43

In contrast to Arab attacks against Jews, which were widely hailed by Arab leaders as heroic actions, the Jewish National Council denounced the bombing of the King David. 44

For decades the British denied they had been warned. In 1979, however, a member of the British Parliament introduced evidence that the Irgun had indeed issued the warning. He offered the testimony of a British officer who heard other officers in the King David Hotel bar joking about a Zionist threat to the headquarters. The officer who overheard the conversation immediately left the hotel and survived. 45
________________________________________
Notes
1 Aharon Cohen, Israel and the Arab World, (NY: Funk and Wagnalls, 1970), p. 172; Howard Sachar, A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time, (NY: Alfred A. Knopf, 1979), p. 146.
2 Moshe Auman, “Land Ownership in Palestine 1880–1948,” in Michael Curtis, et al., The Palestinians, (NJ: Transaction Books, 1975), p. 25.
3 Palestine Royal Commission Report (the Peel Report), (London: 1937), p. 300. Henceforth Palestine Royal Commission Report.
4 Arieh Avneri, The Claim of Dispossession, (Tel Aviv: Hidekel Press, 1984), p. 28; Yehoshua Porath, The Emergence of the Palestinian-Arab National Movement, 1918–1929, (London: Frank Cass, 1974), pp. 17–18.
5 Porath (1974), p. 18.
6 Cohen, p. 53.
7 Yehoshua Porath, Palestinian Arab National Movement: From Riots to Rebellion: 1929–1939, vol. 2, (London: Frank Cass and Co., Ltd., 1977), pp. 17–18, 39.
8 John Hope Simpson, Palestine: Report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development, (London, 1930), p. 126.
9 C. S. Jarvis, “Palestine,” United Empire (London), Vol 28 (1937), p. 633.
10 Palestine Royal Commission Report, p. 242.
11 George Lenczowski, American Presidents and the Middle East, (NC: Duke University Press, 1990), p. 23.
12 Cohen p. 174.
13 Dov Friedlander and Calvin Goldscheider, The Population of Israel, (NY: Columbia Press, 1979), p. 30.
14 Avneri, p. 254.
15 Curtis, p. 38.
16 Avneri, pp. 264; Cohen p. 60.
17 Avneri, pp. 254–55.
18 Moshe Aumann, Land Ownership in Palestine 1880–1948, (Jerusalem: Academic Committee on the Middle East, 1976), pp. 8–9.
19 Shabtai Teveth, Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs: From Peace to War, (London: Oxford University Press, 1985), p. 32.
20 Porath, pp. 80, 84; See also Hillel Cohen, Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917–1948, (Berkeley, University of California Press, 2008).
21 Hope Simpson Report, p. 51.
22 Avneri, pp. 149–158; Cohen, p. 37; based on the Report on Agricultural Development and Land Settlement in Palestine by Lewis French, (December 1931, Supplementary; Report, April 1932) and material submitted to the Palestine Royal Commission.
23 Netanel Lorch, One Long War, (Jerusalem: Keter, 1976), p. 27; Sachar, p. 201.
24 Palestine Royal Commission Report (1937), p. 242.
25 Palestine Royal Commission (1937), pp. 241–242.
26 King Abdallah, My Memoirs Completed, (London, Longman Group, Ltd., 1978), pp. 88–89.
27 Porath (77), pp. 86–87.
28 Aumann, p. 13.
29 Abraham Granott, The Land System in Palestine, (London, Eyre and Spottiswoode, 1952), p. 278.
30 Avneri, pp. 179–180, 224–225, 232–234; Porath (77), pp. 72–73; See also Hillel Cohen, Army of Shadows: Palestinian Collaboration with Zionism, 1917–1948, (Berkeley, University of California Press, 2008).
31 Jon Kimche, There Could Have Been Peace: The Untold Story of Why We Failed With Palestine and Again With Israel, (England: Dial Press, 1973), p. 189.
32 Richard Meinertzhagen, Middle East Diary 1917–1956, (London: The Cresset Press, 1959), pp. 49, 82, 97.
33 Samuel Katz, Battleground-Fact and Fantasy in Palestine, (NY: Bantam Books, 1977), pp. 63–65; Howard Sachar, A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time, (NY: Alfred A. Knopf, 1979), p. 97.
34 Paul Johnson, Modern Times: The World from the Twenties to the Nineties, (NY: Harper & Row, 1983), p. 438.
35 Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre, O Jerusalem!, (NY: Simon and Schuster, 1972), p. 52.
36 Kimche, p. 211.
37 Ben Halpern, The Idea of a Jewish State, (MA: Harvard University Press, 1969), p. 323.
38 Sachar, p. 174.
39 Halpern, p. 201.
40 “Grand Mufti Plotted To Do Away With All Jews In Mideast,” Response, (Fall 1991), pp. 2–3.
41 Record of the Conversation Between the Fuhrer and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem on November 28, 1941, in the Presence of Reich Foreign Minister and Minister Grobba in Berlin, Documents on German Foreign Policy, 1918–1945, Series D, Vol. XIII, London, 1964, p. 881ff in Walter Lacquer and Barry Rubin, The Israel-Arab Reader, (NY: Penguin Books, 2001), pp. 51–55.
42 Menachem Begin, The Revolt, (NY: Nash Publishing, 1977), p. 224.
43 J. Bowyer Bell, Terror Out Of Zion, (NY: St. Martin’s Press), p. 172.
44 Anne Sinai and I. Robert Sinai, Israel and the Arabs: Prelude to the Jewish State, (NY: Facts on File, 1972), p. 83.
45 Benjamin Netanyahu, ed., “International Terrorism: Challenge And Response,” Proceedings of the Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism, July 2-5, 1979, (Jerusalem: The Jonathan Institute, 1980), p. 45.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ndate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AusieOi:
IIRC Isn't the North American continent promised to the Lamanites? Do you suggest they can take your land imprison your kids and put a wall up around Salt LAke City while they steal more land and bulldoze temple square?
And if we want to say ownership, well, the LDS are the owners of Israel/ palestine pal. Its our birthright, we are Israel...they are just Jews, and as Jews all they have is the keys of the gathering restored, thats all

Not quite correct, AusieOi, you are half right. Joseph Smith said that America will be given to the remnant of Joseph,the American Indians, and the Holy Land will be given to the Jews.





The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote that in reading the Book of Mormon “we learn that our western tribes of Indians are descendants from that Joseph which was sold into Egypt, and that the land of America is a promised land unto them, and unto it all the tribes of Israel will come, with as many of the Gentiles as shall comply with the requisitions of the new covenant. But the tribe of Judah will return to old Jerusalem [see Doctrine and Covenants 133:8, 13 , 35 ]. The city of Zion spoken of by David, in the one hundred and second Psalm, will be built upon the land of America, ‘And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads’ ( Isaiah 35:10 ); and then they will be delivered from the overflowing scourge that shall pass through the land. But Judah shall obtain deliverance at Jerusalem. See Joel 2:32 ; Isaiah 26:20 and 21 ; Jeremiah 31:12 ; Psalm 1:5 ; Ezekiel 34:11, 12 and 13 . These are testimonies that the Good Shepherd will put forth His own sheep, and lead them out from all nations where they have been scattered in a cloudy and dark day, to Zion, and to Jerusalem; besides many more testimonies which might be brought.” ( History of the Church, 1:315.)
http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctri ... 01-109.asp

AusieOi:
But yeah, those with a piece of paper saying they've owned some land for 500 years in their family, sure, they should just walk away from their land and move into the Gaza Ghetto and let settlers have it. Becauwe thats what "gathered "means to you no?

Almost correct, my friend:




The Palestinian Refugees

by Mitchell Bard

The Palestinians left their homes in 1947-48 for a variety of reasons. Thousands of wealthy Arabs left in anticipation of a war, thousands more responded to Arab leaders' calls to get out of the way of the advancing armies, a handful were expelled, but most simply fled to avoid being caught in the cross fire of a battle. Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee and an independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel.

The beginning of the Arab exodus can be traced to the weeks immediately following the announcement of the UN partition resolution. The first to leave were roughly 30,000 wealthy Arabs who anticipated the upcoming war and fled to neighboring Arab countries to await its end. Less affluent Arabs from the mixed cities of Palestine moved to all-Arab towns to stay with relatives or friends.

All of those who left fully anticipated being able to return to their homes after an early Arab victory, as Palestinian nationalist Aref el-Aref explained in his history of the 1948 war:

The Arabs thought they would win in less than the twinkling of an eye and that it would take no more than a day or two from the time the Arab armies crossed the border until all the colonies were conquered and the enemy would throw down his arms and cast himself on their mercy.
By the end of January1948, the exodus was so alarming the Palestine Arab Higher Committee asked neighboring Arab countries to refuse visas to these refugees and to seal the borders against them.

Meanwhile, Jewish leaders urged the Arabs to remain in Palestine and become citizens of Israel. The Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:

We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals.

On November 30, the day after the UN partition vote, the Jewish Agency announced: “The main theme behind the spontaneous celebrations we are witnessing today is our community's desire to seek peace and its determination to achieve fruitful cooperation with the Arabs....“
Israel's Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:

In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions....We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all.

Caught in the Middle

Throughout the period that preceded the May 15 invasion of the Arab regular armies, large-scale military engagements, incessant sniping, robberies and bombings took place. In view of the thousands of casualties that resulted from the pre-invasion violence, it is not surprising that many Arabs would have fled out of fear for their lives.

The second phase of the Arab flight began after the Jewish forces started to register military victories against Arab irregulars. Among the victories were the battles for Tiberias and Haifa, which were accompanied by the evacuation of the Arab inhabitants.

On January 30, 1948, the Jaffa newspaper, Ash Sha'ab, reported: “The first of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle.”

Another Jaffa paper, As Sarih (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for “bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages.“

John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, said: “Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war” (London Daily Mail, August 12, 1948).

Jewish forces seized Tiberias on April 19, 1948, and the entire Arab population of 6,000 was evacuated under British military supervision. The Jewish Community Council issued a statement afterward: “We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course....Let no citizen touch their property.”

In early April, an estimated 25,000 Arabs left the Haifa area following an offensive by the irregular forces led by Fawzi al¬Qawukji, and rumors that Arab air forces would soon bomb the Jewish areas around Mt. Carmel. On April 23, the Haganah captured Haifa. A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, explained that “every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe.” In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause. By the end of the battle, more than 50,000 Palestinians had left.

Tens of thousands of Arab men, women and children fled toward the eastern outskirts of the city in cars, trucks, carts, and afoot in a desperate attempt to reach Arab territory until the Jews captured Rushmiya Bridge toward Samaria and Northern Palestine and cut them off. Thousands rushed every available craft, even rowboats, along the waterfront, to escape by sea toward Acre (New York Times, April 23, 1948).

In Tiberias and Haifa, the Haganah issued orders that none of the Arabs' possessions should be touched, and warned that anyone who violated the orders would be severely punished. Despite these efforts, all but about 5,000 or 6,000 Arabs evacuated Haifa, many leaving with the assistance of British military transports.

Syria's UN delegate, Faris el-Khouri, interrupted the UN debate on Palestine to describe the seizure of Haifa as a “massacre” and said this action was “further evidence that the 'Zionist program' is to annihilate Arabs within the Jewish state if partition is effected.”

The following day, however, the British representative at the UN, Sir Alexander Cadogan, told the delegates that the fighting in Haifa had been provoked by the continuous attacks by Arabs against Jews a few days before and that reports of massacres and deportations were erroneous. The same day (April 23, 1948), Jamal Husseini, the chairman of the Palestine Higher Committee, told the UN Security Council that instead of accepting the Haganah's truce offer, the Arabs “preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings, and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town.”

The Invasion

As fear and chaos spread throughout Palestine, the early trickle of refugees became a flood, numbering more than 200,000 by the time the provisional government declared the independence of the State of Israel.

Once the invasion began in May 1948, most Arabs remaining in Palestine left for neighboring countries. Surprisingly, rather than acting as a strategically valuable “fifth¬column” in the war, the Palestinians chose to flee to the safety of the other Arab states, still confident of being able to return. A leading Palestinian nationalist of the time, Musa Alami, revealed the attitude of the fleeing Arabs:

The Arabs of Palestine left their homes, were scattered, and lost everything. But there remained one solid hope: The Arab armies were on the eve of their entry into Palestine to save the country and return things to their normal course, punish the aggressor, and throw oppressive Zionism with its dreams and dangers into the sea. On May 14, 1948, crowds of Arabs stood by the roads leading to the frontiers of Palestine, enthusiastically welcoming the advancing armies. Days and weeks passed, sufficient to accomplish the sacred mission, but the Arab armies did not save the country. They did nothing but let slip from their hands Acre, Sarafand, Lydda, Ramleh, Nazareth, most of the south and the rest of the north. Then hope fled (Middle East Journal, October 1949).

As the fighting spread into areas that had previously remained quiet, the Arabs began to see the possibility of defeat. As the possibility turned into reality, the flight of the Arabs increased-more than 300,000 departed after May 15 — leaving approximately 160,000 Arabs in the State of Israel….For more info see:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ugees.html

[Oldemandalton]

OI:
Mark, there are other things to take into account. For instance we have Revelation warning us of Jews that are not Jews, but are the Synagogue of Satan. Speaking against THOSE Jews I don;t consider to be anti-semitic at all!

Sorry OI, but if the ‘Synagogue of Satan’ you are referring to is in Rev 2:9, 3:9 then you, just as many others, are taking it out of context.

The Book of Revelations was specifically written to seven Churches, branches, of the Church of Jesus Christ who were apostatizing at that time and also to us today. It is not describing the condition of the Jews today and the only ones who use it against them are anti-Semites (not that you are). ‘Synagogue of Satan’ has also been used by Protestants to disparage Catholics and even Anti-Mormons against us.

If it were true that the Jews of Israel were not true ‘Jews’ then wouldn’t a modern prophet or apostle mention it even once while speaking of the ‘synagogue of Satan’? None have. None will because it if false and I would say evil because it plays into the hands of Satan and those who want to destroy Israel.

James E. Talmage makes a reference to the ‘synagogue of Satan’ as a church in apostasy, not to the Jews of today:

He has expressed himself with regard to the churches that are built by man and has said they shall be overthrown. Indeed he has applied strong terms to some of those churches, or to church organizations in general, that have been brought into being by man. Read his words to John the Revelator. See what he means by the synagogue of Satan to which some of the people belonged. Read what he has said about the great and abominable church, the mother of abominations. The church as such may be wholly corrupt because of the false claims that are being made for it, and yet within that church as members there may be people who are doing their best. They have been deceived. As to the degree of culpability that will be charged up to them for their having become subjects of deception, we may not be able to judge. Elder James E. Talmage, Conference Report, October 1928, Afternoon Meeting, p.120-121

Also Donald W. Parry, a professor of Hebrew Bible in the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages at Brigham Young University wrote:

I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not. The word translated "blasphemy" may also be translated as "slanderous accusations" (JB). One commentator explains: "The Jews of Smyrna may have called themselves the synagogue of God. John denounced them with bitter irony as a synagogue of Satan, because Satan, the devil, in the form of Roman authorities, uses Jewish slander to throw some Christians of Smyrna into prison."7 (See also Rom. 9:6; 2 Ne. 30:1-2.) Donald W. Parry and Jay A. Parry, Understanding the Book of Revelation , p.33


3:9 synagogue of Satan. New Testament scholar Metzger comments: "Since John himself had been born a Jew, we must not take the expression `those of the synagogue of Satan' (3:9) in an anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic sense. The synagogue at Philadelphia was criticized, not for being Jewish, but for being hostile to Christians." Donald W. Parry and Jay A. Parry, Understanding the Book of Revelation , p.47-48

In the Contributor, a Church Magazine for the youth describes the conditions in Smyrna/ Philadelphia and why John made the ‘synagogue of Satan’ accusation:

The faithful in Smyrna were not only poor, but were evidently under the persecution of the Jews, for the message says, "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." Calumnies and accusations were preferred against the Christians by the Jews, but the Judge of all the earth calls them blasphemies, evil speakings against Himself. And yet he does not hasten to avenge, but lets the darkness deepen, and the storm increase. But he warns them to live above the present, and to hold fast by what they possess, their faith, their true riches. "Fear none of those things ye are about to suffer: the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that you may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days." The storm soon broke, Polycarp their aged bishop refused to flee, until his flock urged him, for their sakes. His hiding place in the suburbs of the city, was discovered by torturing a child to reveal it. His captors carried him back in triumph. Standing in the crowded amphitheater, before the Roman magistrate, he was asked by the judge, who like a second Pilate, wished to release him, "Wilt thou curse Christ, and I will set thee free!" Mark the old man's faithful answer, "Eighty and six years have I served, and He has never done me wrong; how then can I curse him my King and my Savior!" His sentence was passed; the Jews collected wood from the baths, and workshops, and heaped the pile. Calmly divesting himself of his garments he mounted the stake, the yells of the crowd were stilled by the calmness of the venerable man, and they heard his last words-words that proved he remembered the message he had received for his congregation, for, "he was faithful unto death."

…To the Christians of Smyrna the Lord promised that "their enemies should not prevail against them;" but to the church in Philadelphia he gave a greater promise, "Behold I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." And we do not find any persecution reaching Philadelphia. The Contributor, Volume 9

So now can you see how those who attack the Jews and Israel can take scriptures out of context to give their arguments more weight?

OI
Do you realize that there are tribes of Jews scattered throughout the world that do not feel that Israel has been established, as they feel that Israel is being run by these "Jews who are not Jews".

So do you believe that the promises in the scriptures and modern prophets have not occurred?

You believe the word of secular Jews around the world and not God and His prophets?

Time and again I have shown in my posts that God HAS promised the Jews to gather in the Holy Land, that it began soon after the Jewish apostle, Elder Hyde, dedicated the Holy Land for their return, and that the Jews will be there still upon Christ’s appearance to them on Mount Olivet.

OI
We are told that the entire world will be against Jerusalem at some point...we are NOT told that the Jews in Jerusalem at that time are particularly righteous. In fact, Jerusalem has its own cleansing to go thru...I have seen othing that tells me that we should be gung-ho supporters of Israel's CURRENT government, however much of a bond that I feel for those Jews who truly are Jews.

OI, it is interesting to me even though you know God had a hand in the creation of Israel you give the very reason for Israel’s lack of support from the people of the World when Gog and his armies attack the Jews in Jerusalem. Your rationalization for not supporting Israel is the same as most of the people in the world today even though you have the words of modern day prophets which teach us otherwise.

OI
I don;t have an anti-semitic bone in my body. I think there are some amazing and incredible Jewish people out there! Many would put most LDS to complete shame! But I certainly don;t have a lot of love for the Israeli government, and I think it is an egregious error to equate bad talking Israel the nation and the government to speaking evil of Jews in general.

I have no love for our present government, OI. This does not negate the fact that God had a hand in the establishment and birth of our country. Both Israel and America were established by God for a purpose. Satan wants to frustrate that purpose. Both are governed by fallible men and both nations will receive blessing and the lack thereof depending on the righteousness of its leaders and citizens. This fact does not negate our duty as Priesthood holders and recipents of devine knowledge from modern prophets to try and save these nations from destruction.

There is a great effort today to discredit Israel, its existence and actions as you have seen. Many have fallen for the propaganda of her enemies. It is a shame that many LDS have also.

‘Synagogue of Satan’ is just another myth that Lucifer uses to delegitimize Israel and its existence. If he can get as many people to doubt Israel’s right to exist, the leaders and the very ‘Jewishness’ of its people then it would be easier for the world to accept its destruction. That is Satan’s goal and many LDS, sadly, are falling for his deceptions.

If the Bible, Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and Covenants, call the Jews of the Holy Land ‘Jews’ then why can’t you?

If every modern day prophets, from Joseph Smith to Thomas S. Monson calls the Jews of Israel ‘Jews’ then why can’t you?

[sbsion]

sad

[Mark]

sad

happy

[sbsion]

face it, Israel is so bad, it will take the Lord to intervene and give them a REAL life