Israel

[Oldemandalton]

does the thummim still work without the urim

[sbsion]

when you "hitchhike"

[Oldemandalton]

throw it at their window

[sbsion]

face it..........."Israel" today, is a lie, the Judas of the earth, awaiting Armegeddon

[Oldemandalton]

not according to scripture and the modern prophets ......you have been deceived by satan’s minions

[sbsion]

me thinks you are looking in a mirror

[Oldemandalton]

I wasn't shaving

[HeberC]

It's unfortunate that some people confuse Israel in scripture with the country called Israel. Israel was settled by descendents of Japheth, not Shem.

The people of America and Israel are just people, whether they are from Shem or not, but the Zionists who run those countries are nothing but troublemakers. They are not justified in attacking other countries. The Nephites were told that if they invaded the Lamanite lands they would be delivered into the enemies hands. America needs to learn that the Rules of Engagement in the Book of Mormon apply to us, too.

[sourcedist]

It's unfortunate that some people confuse Israel in scripture with the country called Israel. Israel was settled by descendents of Japheth, not Shem.

The people of America and Israel are just people, whether they are from Shem or not, but the Zionists who run those countries are nothing but troublemakers. They are not justified in attacking other countries. The Nephites were told that if they invaded the Lamanite lands they would be delivered into the enemies hands. America needs to learn that the Rules of Engagement in the Book of Mormon apply to us, too.

right.. if we lived in ancient times we would have supported israel during the reign of saul?

[liberty_belle]

It has been quite awhile since I have been on this site, but I am very glad to see that at least on this site you can have an honest discussion on the State of Israel Government and not be called a Jew Hater. I just recently had this happen to me on another site, where I was locked out and threatened because I dared to post a 9/11 missing links video and ask the body to view it and have a discussion on whether these things were true or not. I was told my antisemitism would not be tolerated. Long story short, I realized I did not belong with a group of LDS people who could accuse someone of such things...all because of some questions I was earnestly seeking the answers for. The Video was "debunked" because its source was a known Antisemitist"....sigh

There is a lot of information here and I will read through them over the next few days, but I noticed one of the articles was from coybeck(?) that I read on that otherr site that really got me to do some serious thinking, praying and researching and for that I am really grateful because I never had even considered such things.

Right now, after everything I have read and studied on this subject of whether or not we should be supporting Israel financially and militarily...my answer is a resounding No Way! However, I dont have time tonight to go into what has brought me to this point, but there was one question that would not leave me and that is, If God wants us to meddle in other Nations' business, when Israel (northern kingdom) was taken captive by Assyria why didn't the Southern Kingdom (Jerusalem, their brothers) come to their aide? As far as I know, God never commanded them to intervene and they didn't.

I am going to leave that question there for tonight and will come back to the other questions I have had and what I have found.

Thanks for having this discussion, I hope to learn even more.

PS: I have no idea how to tag multiple posts to quote it...if someone could tell me

[Oldemandalton]

You should feel right at home here liberty belle. We have several students of The Protocols of the Elders of Israel posting on this thread. LOL

[liberty_belle]

Oldmandalton, thanks. I know you are meaning this tongue in cheeck, but the truth is that I have been where you are. All that I can tell you is that I have had some very spiritual experiences that has caused me to get more informed than I was.

Lest I be misunderstood, I support the Gathering of Israel, I support the People of Israel, but I have come to understand that the Government is as corrupt as our own. Therefore, it demands that we ask the hard questions that make us uncomfortable.

[7cylon7]

Oldmandalton, thanks. I know you are meaning this tongue in cheeck, but the truth is that I have been where you are. All that I can tell you is that I have had some very spiritual experiences that has caused me to get more informed than I was.

Lest I be misunderstood, I support the Gathering of Israel, I support the People of Israel, but I have come to understand that the Government is as corrupt as our own. Therefore, it demands that we ask the hard questions that make us uncomfortable.

Both governments are totally corrupt. This does not stop the Lord from using them to accomplish his own purposes which when you think about it is a fascinating topic on its own. We have free will but the Lord knows how this free will manifest itself. so a careful nudge here and a take the rug out from under your feet here and his ends are met. All his doings will be revealed at the judgement seat and we will finally see his almighty hand in doing everything possible to save the most children he possibly can. These evil rulers will be deposed at the right time by his might hand and the rightful government will be give back to the Lord.

[sbsion]

the Lord "used" Judas, and today's Israel is of the same "pattern"

[Oldemandalton]

liberty_belle;
Oldmandalton, thanks. I know you are meaning this tongue in cheeck, but the truth is that I have been where you are. All that I can tell you is that I have had some very spiritual experiences that has caused me to get more informed than I was.

Lest I be misunderstood, I support the Gathering of Israel, I support the People of Israel, but I have come to understand that the Government is as corrupt as our own. Therefore, it demands that we ask the hard questions that make us uncomfortable.

liberty belle, I am glad you have a sense of humour.

I agree that the Israeli government has the same problem as we do. The LDGs are everywhere but don’t put evil intent on everything that those who have been fighting for survival for over 60 years do. Having 5 million of your friends and relatives killed tends to make you focus on the survival of your people, especially when there are billions who want to exterminate you.

I believe three things;
1. God helped establish Israel and the US for His own purpose.
2. Satan is trying to thwart those purposes. The stage we are in now.
3. Satan looses. We win. Still in the future.

Satan has used anti-Semitic feeling among mankind for millennia. He has been very effective in deceiving man to persecute and kill the Jewish people. God has allowed this to happen but does not sanction it. Those guilty will pay a heavy price at the judgement bar. We will be judged by what we do and say AND by what we DON’T do and say.

[liberty_belle]

I have been a student of the scriptures for 24 years. I am not satisfied with milk and as a result it has caused me to search deep. After I gained my first testimony of the Book of Mormon at 20 years old, I immediately started to ask questions about a concept that coming up, secret combinations. Maybe it was because here in AZ, our Govorner Evan Meecham was being falsely recalled and deep within my soul I knew it was wrong. However I was only 20 years old...what did I know about the political world...practially nothing at the time.

My parents had instilled a deep respect and love for our Country. My grandfathers, uncles and my own father surved in the Military fighting for freedom. So, anthing and anyone who threatened freedom was an enemy and was worth giving your life to protect the homeland.

With the situation going on with Meecham, it was a very new concept that people could overthrow good Government?....yikes!

Two years later I found myself working for an independent company that was hired by the AZ GOP to gather statistical information. As a result at 22 years old I was having conversations with our Elected officials and sitting in on a few of their planning meetings. A short time later, some of those I thought were good people were involved in the Keeting 5....wow another new thought...Governemnt could be evil and betray us?

About this time I became aware of the John Birch Society, but my mom advised me to stay away from them as the Church was against them, but not from what I could discover. So, I read things here and there, but mostly every question in my heart was inspired by studying the scriptures and trying to understand how that applied to our modern world. The short of it was that it has taken me down a very interesting path that I know has been guided by God. I have come to realize that there is no way to fully understand the Last Days Prophecy without having a knowledge of the Nations and their perplexitites.

Pieces here and pieces there have fallen into place as I have become aware of our aweful situation. Ever since 9/11 and the quick passage of the Patriot Act, I have been on high alert and I knew that there was way more to what we were being told. It NEVER felt right. Of course I have done my due diligence on that subject and thought I had a pretty good grasp on the reality that it was an inside job and that its purpose was to bring us under subjectin to the NWO.

Of course, knowing the scriptures as I thught I did, I knew that House of Israel will be gathered and Judah would go back to Jerusalem. I believed that the State of Israel was the commencment of the fulfillment of that. I also knew that Judah would be persecuted and saved at last from their enemies. So I never questioned our support of Israel. However as I have seen the mounting wickedness in our Governemnt and the perpetual warmongering among them, I have taken the same stance as Ron Paul that we should stop our meddling and military complex mindset. I had one of the strongest witnesses I have ever had, when I prayed about my support for Ron Paul. Last election I had a few issues I worried about, but I could not deny my witness. This time, I have had an even stronger witness and those things I worried about have all been resolved as the Lord has shown me one by one the true principle of liberty behind his stance.

That stance was challenged, as I said in my first post. In the process of trying to understand the middle east relations I have found everything is not as I had supposed. It really hard to put it all down right now because its still so jumbled up in just how this relates and where.

1. How was the State of Israel formed

That question alone has caused a great deal of research which includes learning about the Khazar Kingdom who embraced the Talmud teaching as their political and religious philosophy. That information has caused me to ask;

1. If those who formed the State of Israel are indeed these Khazars of whom the Rothschilds came from and the majority of modern day Jews are self professed Khazar Jews and are not really from the House of Judah, does the State of Israel actually fall under the prophecy in regards to the return of the Jews? If so, are these Khazars then adopted in as Judah as people who are converted to the gospel and not literal descendants, are adopted in to Ephraim?

2. If these Khazar Jews embraced the Talmud, what exactly does the Talmud say? What might it reveal about the hearts and purposes of these strict Talmud following Khazars? Does the Talmud teach the basic same principles of brotherly love?

I knew that the Karaite Jews reject the Talmud and accept the Tanak as the whole word of God. I closely follow Nehemia Gordon and have a deep love for the Jews, could these Karaite Jews be the ones who will escape and be converted becasue they refuse to accept the Talmud as their rule of Law?

I was lead to a site called Jewsagainstzionist.com and I was shocked to learn that these same leaders who helped form the State of Israel, left their own people in Germany POW Camps. They cared nothing for their "own" people, they were just collateral damage to getting what they wanted.

Needless to say, I have been on a journey. Right now I feel that the Lord uses even situations that were created out of evil to his own good. I feel that there are a lot of innocent people being used in every country of the middle east and that is why I feel that the Lord gave us a stong warning about when it was appropriate to enter wars. If the wars are created out of lies, then we are certainly not justified in going to war with any nation, but certainly no pre-emptive wars. No matter how you slice it. Nukes or no Nukes.

My final thought for the day is this...this is a question I am asking myself "why didn't God command the Southern Kigdom to go to the defense of the Norther Kingdom when invaded by Assyria? They were brothers and were all "chosen"...why then shouldn't Jerusalem supply financial and military help to them?

[Oldemandalton]

Conversion of the royalty and aristocracy to Judaism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#Th ... enazi_Jews

At some point in the last decades of the 8th century or the early 9th century, the Khazar royalty and nobility converted to Judaism, and part of the general population may have followed.[30] The extent of the conversion is debated. The 10th century Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih reported that "all the Khazars are Jews." Notwithstanding this statement, most scholars believe that only the upper classes converted to Judaism;[31] there is some support for this in contemporary Muslim texts.[32]

The theory that the majority of Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the non-Semitic converted Khazars was advocated by various racial theorists[36][37] and antisemitic sources[37][38][39][40] in the 20th century, especially following the publication of Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe. Despite recent genetic evidence to the contrary,[41] and a lack of any real mainstream scholarly support, this belief is still popular among groups such as the Christian Identity Movement, Black Hebrews, British Israelitists and others (particularly Arabs[42][43][44]) who claim that they, rather than Jews, are the true descendants of the Israelites, =)) or who seek to downplay the connection between Ashkenazi Jews and Israel in favor of their own. For more detail on this controversy, see below.

Theory of Khazar ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews

Early Khazar theories

The theory that all or most Ashkenazi Jews might be descended from Khazars dates back to the racial studies of late 19th century Europe, and was frequently cited to assert that most modern Jews are not descended from Israelites and/or to refute Israeli claims to Israel. It was first publicly proposed in lecture given by the racial-theorist Ernest Renan on January 27, 1883, titled "Judaism as a Race and as Religion."[59] It was repeated in articles in The Dearborn Independent in 1923 and 1925, and popularized by racial theorist Lothrop Stoddard in a 1926 article in the Forum titled "The Pedigree of Judah", where he argued that Ashkenazi Jews were a mix of people, of which the Khazars were a primary element.[37][60] Stoddard's views were "based on nineteenth and twentieth-century concepts of race, in which small variations on facial features as well as presumed accompanying character traits were deemed to pass from generation to generation, subject only to the corrupting effects of marriage with members of other groups, the result of which would lower the superior stock without raising the inferior partners."[61] This theory was adopted by British Israelites, who saw it as a means of invalidating the claims of Jews (rather than themselves) to be the true descendants of the ancient Israelites, and was supported by early anti-Zionists.[37][60]

In 1951 Southern Methodist University professor John O. Beaty published The Iron Curtain over America, a work which claimed that "Khazar Jews" were "responsible for all of America's — and the world's — ills beginning with World War I". The book repeated a number of familiar antisemitic claims, placing responsibility for U.S. involvement in World Wars I and II and the Bolshevik revolution on these Khazars, and insisting that Khazar Jews were attempting to subvert Western Christianity and establish communism throughout the world. The American millionaire J. Russell Maguire gave money towards its promotion, and it was met with enthusiasm by hate groups and the extreme right.[38][39] By the 1960s the Khazar theory had become a "firm article of faith" amongst Christian Identity groups.[37][40] In 1971 John Bagot Glubb (Glubb Pasha) also took up this theme, insisting that Palestinians were more closely related to the ancient Judeans than were Jews. =)) =)) According to Benny Morris:

Of course an anti-Zionist (as well as an anti-Semitic) point is being made here: The Palestinians have a greater political right to Palestine than the Jews do, as they, not the modern-day Jews, are the true descendants of the land's Jewish inhabitants/owners.[43] =))

The theory gained further support when the novelist Arthur Koestler devoted his popular book The Thirteenth Tribe (1976) to the topic. Koestler's historiography has been attacked as highly questionable by many historians;[42][62][63] it has also been pointed out that his discussion of theories about Ashkenazi descent is entirely lacking scientific or historiographical support; to the extent that Koestler referred to place-names and documentary evidence his analysis has been described as a mixture of flawed etymologies and misinterpreted primary sources.[64] Commentors have also noted that Koestler mischaracterized the sources he cited, particularly D.M. Dunlop's History of the Jewish Khazars (1954).[63] Dunlop himself stated that the theory that Eastern European Jews were the descendants of the Khazars, "... can be dealt with very shortly, because there is little evidence which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption."[65]

Koestler, an Ashkenazi Jew himself, was pro-Zionist based on secular considerations, and did not see alleged Khazar ancestry as diminishing the claim of Jews to Israel, which he felt was based on the United Nations mandate, and not on Biblical covenants or genetic inheritance. In his view, "The problem of the Khazar infusion a thousand years ago ... is irrelevant to modern Israel". In addition, he was apparently "either unaware of or oblivious to the use anti-Semites had made to the Khazar theory since its introduction at the turn of the century."[66]

Theories linking Jews to Khazars today

Although the Khazar theory is contradicted by genetic evidence[67][68][69] and has little support amongst academics, in the Arab world it still enjoys popularity among anti-Zionists[42] and antisemites;[70] Such proponents argue that if Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazar and not Semitic in origin, they would have no historical claim to Israel, nor would they be the subject of God's Biblical promise of Canaan to the Israelites, thus undermining the theological basis of both Jewish religious Zionists and Christian Zionists. In the 1970s and 80s the Khazar theory was also advanced by some Russian chauvinist antisemites, particularly the historian Lev Gumilyov, who portrayed "Judeo-Khazars" as having repeatedly sabotaged Russia's development since the 7th century.[71]

Bernard Lewis stated in 1999:
This theory… is supported by no evidence whatsoever. It has long since been abandoned by all serious scholars in the field, including those in Arab countries, where the Khazar theory is little used except in occasional political polemics.[42]

Genetic studies on Ashkenazi Jewry

See also: Ashkenazi Jews#Genetic origins and Genetic studies on Jews

A 1999 study by Hammer et al., published in the Proceedings of the United States National Academy of Sciences compared the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi, Roman, North African, Kurdish, Near Eastern, Yemenite, and Ethiopian Jews with 16 non-Jewish groups from similar geographic locations. It found that "Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level... The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."[72] According to Nicholas Wade "The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism."[73]

A 2010 study on Jewish ancestry by Atzmon et al. says "Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry."[74]

Concerning male-line ancestry, several Y-DNA studies have tested the hypothesis of Khazar ancestry amongst Ashkenazim.[75][76][77] In these studies Haplogroup R1a chromosomes (sometimes called Eu 19) have been identified as potential evidence of one line of Eastern European ancestry amongst Ashkenazim, which could possibly be Khazar. One concluded that "neither the NRY haplogroup composition of the majority of Ashkenazi Jews nor the microsatellite haplotype composition of the R1a1 haplogroup within Ashkenazi Levites is consistent with a major Khazar or other European origin"[76] and another that "if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim."[75]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars#Th ... enazi_Jews

Liberty Bell, you need to look in a different place to find the pearls of knowledge you seek. You won’t find them in the cow pasture you are looking in. Kicking the turds in your search will just get your boots covered in bull@#$t. =)) You’ll have better luck looking deep with snorkel and fins.

Liberty Bell I too am from Az. I grew up on a cattle and cotton ranch just outside of Florence . My mother was a John Birtcher who passed on her library of books which included Skousen’s ‘The Naked Communist/Capitalist’, ‘Fantastic Victory’ etc. I now live in Las Vegas and miss the rural life greatly. Want to go back.


OMD

[sbsion]

likewise

[Oldemandalton]

Cool

[sbsion]

bottom line Israel today is the Judas of mankind on earth as spoken of in Revelation as the "synaguoges of Satan"

[Oldemandalton]

sbsion
bottom line Israel today is the Judas of mankind on earth as spoken of in Revelation as the "synaguoges of Satan

=)) =)) =)) =))

[liberty_belle]

My whole purpose in researching this subject was mainly started because people on another site unequivically stated that we were under obligation to support the State of Israel and I wanted to know beyond what is stated in our Constitution as to why that would be so. Our current war situatuion is based upon the premise that Al' Quida performed Jihad upon the US on 9/11. This is the justification for us being in "wars" in the middle-east. To that has been added the threat that we are the Big Satan and Israel the LIttle Satan.

Now, I have never believed that Al' Quida was solely responsible, but as I dug further, too many evidences of an "inside job" was blaring. However I never knew anything about a Zionist connection and anything that was said, was "taboo" because it was "antisemitic" so I avoided it. It appears that you cannot believe that an evil organization can exist in Israel with out being antisemitic. Anything that is said trying to reveal this cabal immediately is laughed off as being promoted by antisemitism.

As I have viewed the atrocities that has been perpetuated against the Iraqi's and the Palastinians, I was horrified! Then to find out that many of those involved in 9/11 in our Governemnt have an Israeli connection was mind-blowing! The hatred that was spewed against me on that other site for just asking questions, was shocking and I had a strong witness that I was getting closer to knowing the truth and that is why the name calling and accusations of being a Jew Hater.

In the Rothschild (Khazar+Gentile) timeline I learned that they had a strong connection to the Vatican, now it was starting to all come together. Nephi said that the Great and Abominable Church would be formed among the Gentiles after the Apostles had fallen asleep. Walter Veith has an excellent seminar on just how that was formed and then connects that influence on the Muslims.


I think this is the one.....
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/117/ ... -the-mask/


this is the Islamic Connection the the Vatican
http://amazingdiscoveries.tv/media/129/ ... onnection/

I asked this question before but did not get an answer:

If it is our responsibility and obligation to defend Israel with money and military beause they are our brothers and a chosen people, why didn't the Southern Kigdom (Judah) defend the Northern Kingdom (Israel) against the invasion of Assyria?

The Lord gave them no such command to do so (nor have we been given one, in fact our Constitution defines that perfectly and then given an additional witness from the D&C that we are to befreind it) and we find that they were not condemned for doing so. However, they were given a warning that if they followed in their wicked ways, they would also be given up to destruction....which we all know happened.

My point is that if the formation of Israel is truly the handiwork of God, then he will fight their battles when they lean on him and not upon foreign allegiances. If they wanted Independence, then they should be allowed to control their own destinies without our intervention. Theyshould also be responsible for their actions and reap the consequences thereof. Its almost like mommy and daddy saving little Johnny from his choices, but Johnny never learns because he is not the one paying the price.

Ron Paul on Israel Intervention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZpL8F4FgU

I believe that the mass majority of Jews are excellent people who are being used by their own Government for their own wicked ends. If these Ashkazaria Jews are indeed following the Talmud, then we have much to be concerned about oursleves because its teachings are the very ones that Jesus condemned and in turn which condemned Jesus to death.

In 2 Nephi chapters 29 and 30 we learn that the Gentile sins come from the fact that they "hated, cursed" and did not seek to "recover" the Jews.

As Christians our sins came from "hating" in other words we ingnored the Lord higher teaching to "love one another," to "love your enemies and do good to them that persecute you." The Christians carried with them the bitterness of the stiff-neckedness of those Jews that caused them to put to death Christians and the Christ. They were embittered by the usery that the some Jews used to ensnare people and nations. As a result they cursed their name and passed judgement upon all Jews rather than those directly responsible. In this bitterness they, did not seek to "recover" them, meaning they made no, to very little effort to teach them the gospel of Jesus Christ. This indictment was not about "restoring" the Jews it was about forgiving them and seeking their conversion to Christ. The Lord is very clear that he would be the one to Gather Israel insomuch that all people would not talk about the great event that happened out of Egypt, but this new event that proved God's hand was in the restoration of the House of Israel.

It seems to me that any time we try to rush the Lords plan and put our own wills above his, that there is heartache. From what I can see, the Rothschilds, a very wicked and Satanic people, were the ones behind this whole thing of setting up an Independent State of Israel. Those who live there have been at war with their neighbors ever since. While those Jews who live in the US, have been free to worship and prosper. Many have accepted the gospel as well as those who have lived in other countries. I have to come to wonder if those things stated by prophesy about the trumoil in the Jerusalem is more of just a statement of fact about what will happen, possibly as a direct result of rushing the Lord's plan...???...

Also, in Isaiah, Jeremiah and Nephi it states that those who dug the pit for his people, that they fell, it will be turned upon them. The Cabal have been able to work in secret for centuries, but now as the Lord is bringing things to and end he says that those secrets will be made manifest...most will be revealed during the millenium, but is it not possible that the current ability to learn information via internet is just one way the Lord is revealing secrets? Aren't people becoming much more aware of who are their oppressores? Wouldn't it be interesting if the innocent people of all nations rose up against the leaders...especially when they come to realize just how much Zionist Rothschilds and cohorts have caused turmoil and war in the world?

I see the Arabs and the Muslims as people who had come to realize that the Jews would not be satisfied with the boarder they were given (and they haven't been) but would insist upon enlarging their boarders by conquest just as in the days of David and Solomon. I think they could see a future where their rights of relgion and culture would be eliminated which caused the basic human feelings of survival. It would be easier to conquer them early on vs later when more Jews would be arriving in Palestine. I think they may feel that they are justified in those feelings as the Jews in Governemnt have caused the oppression and demise of the Palastinians, while they are supported by an ally financially and militarily.

This is what I got our Book of Ruth conversation with the Shi'ia in the Mohammad post.

AofF 11) We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

[sbsion]

sbsion
bottom line Israel today is the Judas of mankind on earth as spoken of in Revelation as the "synaguoges of Satan

=)) =)) =)) =))

8-| 8-| 8-| :ymsigh: :ymsick:

[Mark]

bottom line Israel today is the Judas of mankind on earth as spoken of in Revelation as the "synaguoges of Satan"

I just can't figure out why the Brethren don't come to you for clarification and understanding about Israel's latter day prophetic mission and calling Stan. :-\

[sbsion]

good question, but, maybe they alredy KNOW, they just want you to find out for yourself, I mean, afterall, unless you do, you won't believe