LDS Freedom Forum

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+1

I'm for legal immigration but NOT illegal immigration. The example of the Mormons in MO is NOT right. The Mormons were citizens although disliked. I'm NOT, however, for open borders. I would allow open immigrant to come to America and settle in areas where their skills are badly needed but not to already overcrwoded states and cities.

How did the Nephites treat the people who Ammon and his brothers taught, who became the Anti-Nephi-Lehis? What did they do for them? What did they give to them for an inheritance? What can we learn from this?

Coachmarc......The Ammonites asked permission first. The Nephites also took a vote or poll amongst themselves, as to what to do. They then decided to provide them with the land of Jershon. The key here is that the Ammonites asked first, then the Nephites provided an area for them. You ask what can we learn from this? The Ammonites had respect for the Nephites, and asked permission. Big difference from what we have today, of all Nationalities sneaking across the border and thinking they are entitled to something. Come across legally, and you are welcome.

Now that I think of it... we were strangers in the "Land of Mexico" at one point too. That's an interesting perspective, thanks for posting it

Poltax, you are correct. Unfortunately today, the world is different. Politics are different, there is great corruption, etc. If the US was led by righteous leaders, free of secret combinations, perhaps things would be different too. And there would be peace in all the land.

Perhaps if some of the illegals were different it would make a difference as well. But some of them bring the gangs and the drugs and other evil things.

Yes, another unfortunate casualty of the corruption of the Nephite/Lamanite history. They became a loathsome people. Still, the Lamanites today are blossoming as a rose. Definitely two sides to this coin. Justice cannot be denied and yet, there can be room for compassion and charity, where they are merited.

Thank you Scarecrow for bringing back some common sense in this debate. I'm tired of reading and listening to the haters and the fearful with their anti-immigration rants. Either we choose fear or we choose love. And the price of love is your life. Freedom is not a right, it is a privilege for those who choose to love and follow the ways of the Lord. People in their SUVs, watching American Idol, after filling their carts at Costco, complain about the poor Mexican worker who comes here to work in fear on a daily basis because of haters such as Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Poverty in Mexico and Central America is a reality. And, no, not poverty like you have seen here in the United States. I mean poverty where people starve to death. Just recently there were over 50 Mexican indians who committed suicide by jumping off of cliffs because their babies were starving to death and they couldn't take the pain anymore. Our comfortable lives have made us blind and insensitive to the realities of the world around us. The response is always the same: They are illegal, they are breaking the law, they are filling our emergency rooms, they are all on welfare, they are lazy. What a bunch of crap! READ, TRAVEL, EXPERIENCE OTHER CULTURES, BECOME INFORMED, AND STOP GETTING YOUR INFORMATION FROM CNN AND FROM YOUR NEIGHBOR. Ignorance has always been our #1 enemy. Ignorance has always been the seed of hatred and fear. Our wealth as a nation is rapidly dwindling not because of immigrants, but because of this very ignorance and it shows in our atrocious foreign policy, exchanging the lives our own and those abroad for oil and power. And like Ron Paul said, maybe one day the fence on the border will not be used to keep people out, but to keep people in. Do I hate? Yes, I hate ignorance, because it brings nothing but violence and destruction. It brings nothing but divisions amongst the people. This is what I hate and will fight to bring back common sense and peace and love. And the next time you take the sacrament on Sunday, remember why you are eating bread and drinking water: ... "that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen."

Excellent, alexoyarzun.

Thanks alexoyarzun, very good points.

To expand on the problem of ignorance, there is a reason for it. The falsehoods that people believe that lead them to believe that immigration policy is just and illegal immigration harmful are lies told by politicians for political gain. It's that simple.

The politicians lie and say that immigrants, especially illegal immigrants (though not sure why...) steal jobs, so we should keep them out. This is ridiculous. Immigrants are consumers as well as producers, and they tend to take jobs that are more risky or less pleasant... filling a very important need in an economy such as ours in the USA filled with spoiled teenagers and adults who are just as spoiled. And what about money they send home? The US Dollars don't just disappear or get magically converted to something else... they may pass through many hands but eventually have to come back otherwise they have no value. Money flowing out generally comes back as investment or purchasing exports, both things needed in this country.

Another lie is the criminals and gangs lie. Drug markets in the USA and drug prohibition policies to increase prices are exactly what funds the gangs both in the USA and Mexico (and many other parts of the world). In fact, in that category the USA has caused for Mexico, not the other way around. If people in the USA weren't buying so many illegal drugs, and if US law didn't drive up the price of drugs, and if US law enforcement related to drugs wasn't so violent, then not only would the USA not have so many problems with immigration and import related crime, but other countries such as Mexico wouldn't either. If I were a Mexican citizen I would be hopping mad at this neighbor to the north that is causing so many problems... and many good people in Mexico are upset for just that reason.

The whole issue wreaks of the stench of political power grabbing. Every problem is caused by political power grabs, and every solution they propose is oriented around more power and funding for the government.

It is disgusting. The politics are so far separated from any real issue that the immigration system does absolutely zero good for the country. It is a super-corrupt part of a super-corrupt organization filled with hundreds of other equally corrupt agencies.