There are higher kindoms of Glory above the Celestial

[freedomforall]

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Some definitions I didn't want to post like pederast.
effeminate = : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
abusers = homosexuals

[Samuel the Lamanite]

SB: Your advive is well given. I try very hard to learn from the HG as my 100% truthful guide. Unfortuanely at times, I misread the HG. But with practice I seem to be getting better.

[tsc]

When you consider that the "highest" room for us in the temple is the Celestial room, then I believe that answers the question as to whether or not there is more glory than the highest level of this kingdom

[bobhenstra]

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Some definitions I didn't want to post like pederast.
effeminate = : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
abusers = homosexuals

Indeed, A lot of people who haven't yet repented!

Bob

[Samuel the Lamanite]

TSC: Maybe but please realize that these Temples ar earthly ones and only reveal knowledge up to a certain level. I haven't been in the Holy of Holies. Have you?

[dewajack]

I Corinthians 3:16: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

We all have our individual holy of holies.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Dewa: That may be true but IMO irrelevant to what the thread is discussing.

[tsc]

Something else interesting to ponder:

There are some priesthood keys, such as the creation of worlds, that are not on the earth, even though it is the same level of priesthood power.

[Henmasher]

So the question is why do you believe they are not on the earth today.

[tsc]

So the question is why do you believe they are not on the earth today.

The keys needed to create a world are not on the earth because that is not an ordinance that is performed here, not even the prophet has these keys. He does, of course, hold all of the earthly keys.

I believe the reason, is simply that this is God's plan. We, at least most of us, cannot, or most likely will not, reach the level of perfection and understanding, or knowledge, required to excercise these keys.

Even though God has a perfect knowledge of the power he uses, he still excercises faith, but it is a perfect faith. The only being so far I know to obtain this during this life is our Savior.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

The conspiracy gurus have a field day with the Salt Lake Temple because of the pagan and occult symbolism on it. Some conspirators insist these are Satan symbols. This is why they are so certain the LDS church is part of the "New World Order" conspiracy because of these pagan, satanic symbols, the Big Dipper (Ursa Major) constellation on the west facade, the clasped-hands, the All-Seeing Eye, the cloud-stones, the star-stones,the earth-stones, the moon-stones depicting the sequential phases of the moon for one lunar year,the sun-stones, "Saturn-stones", upside-down five-pointed stars, large upright five-pointed stars, small upright five-pointed stars, Six-pointed stars, and of course, the angel Moroni. Each of these symbols, and others not mentioned here, have various levels of meaning. Now, If the earth-stone is lowest on a vertical scale of the temple and represents the telestial world, the moon is next which represents the terrestrial world and the sun is above them both representing the Celestial world, Right??? 3 degrees? Then what are we to assume of the Saturn-stones which was (in the 1854 drawing, and remains even today) above all three?

The 1854 original architect's drawing of the south elevation distinctly depicted Saturn-stones over each sun-stone on the main buttresses of the central body of the temple.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1dSBe3Fg-lg/S ... vation.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

During the 1870 revisions by Brigham Young, Truman O. Angell removed the Saturn-stones from the buttresses to a more
obscure pattern atop five of the six spires of the temple. The sixth and highest topped, of course, with the Angel Moroni.

Nothing carries a loftier elevation on the temple than the Saturn-stones except the Angel Moroni which we are told depicts the proclamation of the Gospel itself. Few of us today even know of the existence of these stones, let alone have any idea of their symbolic meaning. Some will insist and say they are "NOT" Saturn-stones but are quiet when they learn that Brigham Young himself said they are "saturn stones." I think he is a reliable person in this case. One whose opinion matters. What do folks here think this might mean? SATURN stones above the SUN stones, representing CELESTIAL GLORY? Hmmmmm! Just what SUN are we speaking of? What does this suggest about the cosmological "location of the Celestial Kingdom?



2 or 3 times a month I take my two nieces to temple square. About a month ago I gave them a challenge of identifying all the different stones and how many there were on the temple. They came up with 104 stars-stones, 34 Earths-stones,50 moons-stones, 52 suns-stones, and 184 Saturns-stones. Don't know if thats correct, but thats what my nieces reported back to me.



On another note, when we speak of the future earth as being "the Celestial Kingdom" while we do not the same when it comes to the lesser two kingdoms which are also the earth. The earth-stone on the SLC temple is the lowest or footstool of God. While the Saturn-stone which stands higher than them all except the statue of Moroni.It is the Telestial Kingdom where we all start our journey according to language specific temple rites. The temple inside has the world room painted and made to resemble this earth we live on. God informs us that the room represents the Telestial Kingdom or the world in which we now live.

thebestsun posted this in another thread;

The picture above is a picture of one of the walls in the Salt Lake Creation Room. If you look in the corner instead of a nice bright sunny sky there is a giant hurricane looking thing in the sky. Why on earth would the prophet have them use up the space like that? When they could have put a nice sunshine or some rainbows there? Nothing about our temples are accidents and they are all Symbolic revealing truths.

I concur with TheBestSun! There are "NO" accidents about the symbolism of the Salt Lake Temple. Just Symbolic truths..

[Samuel the Lamanite]

If you ever visit the Nauvoo Temple, they have some handouts that expolain what all the symbols mean. A must see. I don't know if the SL Temple has the same thing but my guesss is that it does.

[Matthew.B]

Joseph Smith said "he knew a man that was caught up to the seventh heaven." I think that takes care of that one.

That would be the highest degree of the Terrestrial Kingdom.
1 spirit prison or paradise
2 lowest part of tel k
3 middle part of tel k
4 highest part of tel k
5 lowest part of ter k
6 middle part of ter k
7 highest part of ter k

any thoughts?

I don't think the Spirit World counts as a "heaven" (Kingdom of Glory) as it is the realm of disembodied spirits (with knowledge but no power to act). Personally, I believe both the Telestial and Terrestrial glories count as one heaven each, the three degrees in the Celestial glory each represent a heaven, and the other two heavens... I don't know.

[SpeedRacer]

So there are 3 degrees within celestial, that is in section 131. We know that the churches preaches celestial, so everything else is speculation. So would it not be easy to speculate that there are 3 degrees within the lower kingdoms?

[pritchet1]

Ever wonder why the Celestial Rooms in the temples seem to be like Stargates? Why the Heavens open up to us there when we are appropriately prepared? Just imagine...and focus in the right direction.

I probably could come up with the various quotes regarding why we don't spend much time trying to figure out how to get into the lower kingdoms. If we are not properly prepared, we will sadly know soon enough.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Repeating waht I said earlier, the White Stone which we are gigven in the highest degree of the CK, gives us the ability to look into lower kingdoms but also HIGHER Kingdoms. It seems rather plain to me given the Law of Eternal Progression that the highest degree of the CK is a stepping stone to higher kingdoms just as baptism is the stepping stone to the CK.

[TheProfessor]

It seems as though we may be referring to two different concepts in this thread. On the one hand we have folks talking about "degrees of glory", while on the other we have folks talking about "orders" of kingdoms.

Those who inherit this earth once it has been glorified will be able to use it as a great urim and thummim whereby things of a lower order will be made known. To the best of my knowledge, "lower order" means those systems of worlds and beings that have come along after ours, perhaps those of a different eternity. As such, they have gathered less glory/honor to them (only because they have not been in existence as long, therefore there are fewer exalted beings associated with them).

Furthermore, each inhabitant of this celestial world will receive the white stone, which will be a urim and thummim whereby things of a higher order may be made known. These would be celestial systems and kingdoms which have gone before ours and received their celestial glory before ours, and thus have gathered more glory and honor.

If the division between orders is not by time/glory/eternity, it could be that it is by governing bodies. The writings of Abraham go into great detail regarding the celestial bodies that are the "governing ones" for this particular order (by "order" I am interpreting that to mean all those things created by Jesus Christ). It is possible that there are other governing bodies for other groups of created worlds, etc.

[InfoWarrior82]

The conspiracy gurus have a field day with the Salt Lake Temple because of the pagan and occult symbolism on it. Some conspirators insist these are Satan symbols. This is why they are so certain the LDS church is part of the "New World Order" conspiracy because of these pagan, satanic symbols, the Big Dipper (Ursa Major) constellation on the west facade, the clasped-hands, the All-Seeing Eye, the cloud-stones, the star-stones,the earth-stones, the moon-stones depicting the sequential phases of the moon for one lunar year,the sun-stones, "Saturn-stones", upside-down five-pointed stars, large upright five-pointed stars, small upright five-pointed stars, Six-pointed stars, and of course, the angel Moroni. Each of these symbols, and others not mentioned here, have various levels of meaning. Now, If the earth-stone is lowest on a vertical scale of the temple and represents the telestial world, the moon is next which represents the terrestrial world and the sun is above them both representing the Celestial world, Right??? 3 degrees? Then what are we to assume of the Saturn-stones which was (in the 1854 drawing, and remains even today) above all three?

Exactly. A good example is Mark Dice.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Professor: Glad to have you on LDSFF. I can see you will challenge us to really ponder and think. I know I need that and to be challenged with my ideas. Thanks.

[freedomforall]

This is talked about in the D+C. I didn't notice it for years. My wife and I were studying aloud and both suddenly saw this at the same time.

Also, I recently discovered in the D+C that there is a Kingdom between the Telestial Glory and Outer Darkness. This kingdom, however, is NOT one of Glory.

Has anyone else discovered this? If so, what do you think are the implications?

D&C 130
10 Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

The following, I believe, is what is talked about as referenced in the D&C
Abr. 3:3 (3–17)
3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.
5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.
6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.
7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.
8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;
9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made;
12 And he said unto me: My son, my son (and his hand was stretched out), behold I will show you all these. And he put his hand upon mine eyes, and I saw those things which his hands had made, which were many; and they multiplied before mine eyes, and I could not see the end thereof.
13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.
14 And it was in the night time when the Lord spake these words unto me: I will multiply thee, and thy seed after thee, like unto these; and if thou canst count the number of sands, so shall be the number of thy seeds.
15 And the Lord said unto me: Abraham, I show these things unto thee before ye go into Egypt, that ye may declare all these words.
16 If two things exist, and there be one above the other, there shall be greater things above them; therefore Kolob is the greatest of all the Kokaubeam that thou hast seen, because it is nearest unto me.
17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.