LDS Freedom Forum

WhereCanITurn4Peace wrote:it's a natural occurrence that a wife most of the time will want to be intimate.

Hey, that would be nice! :-w

yesterday I canceled a fishing trip with one of my brothers that we had been planning for sometime so that I could stay home and take my wife to a performance she REALLY wanted to see. When she asked if the fishing trip was cancelled for her I told her no. She knew that I REALLY looked forward to that trip and she felt guilty, when she pressed the question again I told her it didn't matter because of all the fish in the mountains I'd rather catch her.

Happy wife, happy life.

As Mormons we believe in saving money for unexpected emergencies, and food storage for hard times, we talk about it all the time. But I think we should talk more about stockpiling love and good memories so that when a marriage or family runs into hard times they have something to fall back on to see them through.

tribrac wrote:yesterday I canceled a fishing trip with one of my brothers that we had been planning for sometime so that I could stay home and take my wife to a performance she REALLY wanted to see. When she asked if the fishing trip was cancelled for her I told her no. She knew that I REALLY looked forward to that trip and she felt guilty, when she pressed the question again I told her it didn't matter because of all the fish in the mountains I'd rather catch her.

Happy wife, happy life.

As Mormons we believe in saving money for unexpected emergencies, and food storage for hard times, we talk about it all the time. But I think we should talk more about stockpiling love and good memories so that when a marriage or family runs into hard times they have something to fall back on to see them through.

Wonderful story & example!

great posts, all!

How sweet, tribrac! It's great to see how giving you are in your marriage. My husband is wonderful too...he always asks how I'm doing throughout the day, even if he's crazy busy at work and makes sure to give me a good-bye kiss when he leaves and a hello kiss when he comes home! In return I'm trying to become a better cook (haha!) and prepare things he enjoys. Just made some oat bread that he included in his breakfast this morning.

I love that list Tribac!

JulesGP wrote:Like this made me cry, thanks for posting it! :ymhug:

:ymhug:

tribrac wrote: As Mormons we believe in saving money for unexpected emergencies, and food storage for hard times, we talk about it all the time. But I think we should talk more about stockpiling love and good memories so that when a marriage or family runs into hard times they have something to fall back on to see them through.

I think this is a great observation. If we think things are getting ready to fall apart soon, along with all the temporal preparedness that we continue to do (i.e., get out of debt, food storage, etc.); I really think emphasizing the need to treasure up wonderful memories with our spouse will really help in the days ahead.

John Adams, great thought, now how do we do that without dwelling in the past? It seems we need to stay current, actively moving ahead with our acts of kindness and our selfless service. So how do we cultivate those memories of the past, or do we rely on daily acts of kindness to keep our relationships vibrant and whole? Or, can we do both, and how is that done?

The hard part of life is trying to be at peace in the "present" no matter what is going on in life - if you're having a hard time, then trying to be at peace that things will get better; if life is good, then being at peace while still knowing that it won't always be good.

I just think the world in general is going to be having more and more of the "hard times" in the weeks/months/years ahead, so having good memories to fall back on helps us be at peace with the fact that they will return again in the future (no matter what the tribulation).

So even as things gradually "collapse" creating as many good memories as possible will be an asset in the days ahead.

Isn't what's really amazing of course is that as we get through hard times that those "memories" often end up being some of our best memories as well.

Yes, I'm rambling again - in general I guess I'm just saying to take your spouse out to get an ice cream so you can have that memory with you when that may not be as readily available in the future.

Thought of this thread when I read this joke:

Russian Joke:
HEAVEN-1.American salary 2.British house 3.Chinese food 4.Russian wife

HELL-1.Russian salary 2.Chinese house 3.British food 5.American wife

Not sure but I suspect that many people around the world think that Americans are superficial and materialistic. Sad part is, in many ways it might be true. I would think that one great way to improve a marriage is to try to abandon any and all cultural influences from the United States culture that do not conform to what Jesus taught. If a wicked tree cannot bring forth good fruit then can anyone say that the US is pure?

) Cute joke, great comment. Babylon was the downfall of the Nephites wasn't it. They just could not let go of the desire for worldly power and influence. I like the idea of sanctifying yourself, then your marriage and then your family. In that order.

Nan wrote:Men usually feel closer to their wives when they have sex. Women need to feel close to their husband to have sex. Most men don't figure that out very well or quickly enough. Frankly the best sex is when you are also experiencing emotional and spiritual intimacy on a regular basis as well.

This describes the trap - a trap that is amplified in US culture (due to emphasis at self-fulfillment rather than self-sacrifice). But, the gospel of Jesus Christ commands us to avoid the trap. Consider:

For behold, God hath said a man being evil cannot do that which is good; for if he offereth a gift, or prayeth unto God, except he shall do it with real intent it profiteth him nothing. For behold, it is not counted unto him for righteousness. For behold, if a man being evil giveth a gift, he doeth it grudgingly; wherefore it is counted unto him the same as if he had retained the gift; wherefore he is counted evil before God. (Moroni 7:6-8)

And again: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generations of them that hate me; (Mosiah 13:13)

The Lord, and your spouse, needs your heart. A spouse offering a grudging gift of "intimacy" or conversation, leaves the other spouse feeling empty and cheated. Obviously that is one step above withholding the gift, but not good enough.

In order to be generic, consider dating as a representation of both intimacy and conversation. Now consider the fidelity of an unmarried couple that has committed to exclusive dating. Is it faithful to refuse to date the partner? Or to stand her up? Or to date someone else? To go on the date, but spend the date talking with a new girl? Or to want to date someone else? Obviously, even in this scenario, the heart is the essence of the commitment, and from the heart, as a natural consequence, flows the desire to date and to be with that person.

It seems to me, that too many couples lose sight of the dating commitment that was formalized in a legal marriage ceremony, often for eternity in the temple - to give each other their heart and desire. To not want each other physically and conversationally is a blatant violation of that covenant, which is not only a legal obligation, but a moral one. Unfortunately, your children will often pay the higher price for the violation. It is similarly unfaithful and serious to sleep with someone else, as it is to not want to sleep with your spouse. The same goes for talking with them.

I believe that a just God will administer justice, in that if you are not willing to give your spouse your heart over much time, that God will find someone that will be willing, and would take the commitment a little more seriously. You will likely say horrible things about the consequences, but they are just and fair, and it was your choice. In any case, it amazes me that people would ever argue over whether an exclusively commited couple should date. Don't they want to?

John Locke wrote:

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:FI: The Bible says that sex abstinence must be agreed to by both parties but only for a time. IMO, if one partner is reluctant or worse about having sex often, then the other spouse will be more open to nahving an affair. I beleive this to be the case especially for the years that the sex drive is very active.

What say ye?

Where does the bible say this?

In 1 Corinthians 7:2-5:

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

I believe that Paul is exactly right on this.

Russian Joke:
HEAVEN-1.American salary 2.British house 3.Chinese food 4.Russian husband

HELL-1.Russian salary 2.Chinese house 3.British food 5.American husband

What did you do to improve your marriage relationship?

I ended it...

WhereCanITurn4Peace wrote:

Amore Vero wrote:
Why conform to their needs? I would say because if you truly love your spouse, you always put their needs, desires & feelings above your own & do whatever it takes to make them happy & content.

Compromise is nice but it doesn't create 'exultant ecstasy & true love'. That's what Pres. Hinckley said every couple can achieve 'in this life' & I know this is true.

If we are really mature, we will completely submit to the other's wishes continually. It's what brings this true love & ecstasy.

Remember in Princess Bride, "As you wish" means 'I love you'. It's very true.

Hopefully they will do the same in return, but if not... we fulfill their wishes anyway.

And I believe that when a spouse cheats, whether mentally, emotionally or physically, it has nothing to do with the other spouse, no matter what the other spouse does or doesn't do. It has everything to do with the cheater's 'spirituality', which not even their spouse can do much about. Everyone has to get their own 'oil in their lamps' by themselves.

Part of your post makes no sense, specifically "I would say because if you truly love your spouse, you always put their needs, desires & feelings above your own & do whatever it takes to make them happy & content."

I've heard some men say they need to have ***Warning:Graphic*** threesomes, anal sex, and the like to be happy and content in their marriage. Uh, no thanks! I'm all for serving your spouse and putting them 1st, but let's not be ridiculous, doormats, or co-dependents.

I do agree with you that usually cheating has nothing to do with the spouse that has been cheated on.

There is no habit, no addiction, no rebellion, no transgression, no apostasy, no crime exempted from the promise of complete forgiveness. That is the promise of the atonement of Christ.

~Boyd K. Packer I like that quote.

Repentance and Forgiveness in Marriage....in this month's ensign.

http://lds.org/ensign/2011/09/repentanc ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We've learned from the 5 languages of love, color code and many other relationship books, but this article really struck the heart for us. It's an adapted version from a BYU devotional address. I'd link to it but the byu speeches site is down for the moment.

Well worth the read!

linj2fly wrote:Repentance and Forgiveness in Marriage....in this month's ensign.

http://lds.org/ensign/2011/09/repentanc ... e?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We've learned from the 5 languages of love, color code and many other relationship books, but this article really struck the heart for us. It's an adapted version from a BYU devotional address. I'd link to it but the byu speeches site is down for the moment.

Well worth the read!

Nice post. Thanks for sharing. I really liked this quote, "The essence of repentance is trying to change ourselves in ways that will make us better people. On the other hand, the foundation of pride is the desire to cover up our own weaknesses and focus on changing our spouse’s behavior. As we humble ourselves, we desire to improve our lives and take responsibility for our weaknesses. We are willing to apologize and become better people, which is at the core of repentance."
In my experience, there is no such thing as a victim. Ever. Once we learn how to take responsibility for our part in every "play" in life, or to take the good from everything(give thanks to God in all things) that occurs in life, the atonement and its effect becomes an automatic balm applied to every self imposed injury.

On a slightly different application, I have pondered on the accuracy of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs. I don't believe the need to be loved is accurate. I think the need we have is to give love. Being loved is not scriptural. The need to love is vital to growth, development of testimony and becoming a Zion people.

Rand wrote:"The essence of repentance is trying to change ourselves in ways that will make us better people."

I believe that this is the secularization of repentance. As sin is to violate God's will, then repentance is an attempt to remedy the violation. So, the essence of repentance is the effort to join oneself with God, rather than to continue to oppose Him.

Rand wrote:In my experience, there is no such thing as a victim. Ever.

Extremism is not rationality nor reality. Jesus Christ taught that the truth will make you free. Seeing the realities of both sides is important if you want to understand the truth, which will make you free. It is true that in our society, many readily understand the victim's side, at the cost of the perpetrator's side. I believe that the victim would be made free if we better understood the perpetrator's side.

Rand wrote:I don't believe the need to be loved is accurate.

I think the one (the need to love) highly suggests the other (the need to be loved). I can imagine a child that has always had access to water failing to put water on a list of necessities. That likely would not be the case after going without water for 2 days. After having starved from a lack of love, you may also think differently.

Rand wrote:Being loved is not scriptural.

Consider John 3:14-17:

¶ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I'll be married 20 years this November. My number one rule since day one has been to simply not argue. My wife always hated that because it disarmed her when she wanted to just blow up and let me have it. Instead, I'd always simply smile and agree. But I also let her know my expectations along the way. Some people say marriage is 50/50, but I've always lived (or at least always tried) as if it were 100/100. When you both are willing to give in all the way, compromise is not a hard thing at all. And just for fun:

wiser2 wrote:

Rand wrote:"The essence of repentance is trying to change ourselves in ways that will make us better people."

I believe that this is the secularization of repentance. As sin is to violate God's will, then repentance is an attempt to remedy the violation. So, the essence of repentance is the effort to join oneself with God, rather than to continue to oppose Him.

Rand wrote:In my experience, there is no such thing as a victim. Ever.

Extremism is not rationality nor reality. Jesus Christ taught that the truth will make you free. Seeing the realities of both sides is important if you want to understand the truth, which will make you free. It is true that in our society, many readily understand the victim's side, at the cost of the perpetrator's side. I believe that the victim would be made free if we better understood the perpetrator's side.

Rand wrote:I don't believe the need to be loved is accurate.

I think the one (the need to love) highly suggests the other (the need to be loved). I can imagine a child that has always had access to water failing to put water on a list of necessities. That likely would not be the case after going without water for 2 days. After having starved from a lack of love, you may also think differently.

Rand wrote:Being loved is not scriptural.

Consider John 3:14-17:

¶ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Wiser, I don't see the relevance of the quote to my assertion. I have never seen a scripture that tells us to find a good loving place to dwell, or to make sure you get the love you desire. It always commands us to give love. We must accept God's love, which I don't believe is conditional, it is always there for the taking. But we are commanded to love.

Rand wrote:

Rand wrote:Being loved is not scriptural.

Consider John 3:14-17:

¶ And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Wiser, I don't see the relevance of the quote to my assertion. I have never seen a scripture that tells us to find a good loving place to dwell, or to make sure you get the love you desire. It always commands us to give love. We must accept God's love, which I don't believe is conditional, it is always there for the taking. But we are commanded to love.

Hi Rand, I think that the majority problem is that in your mind, "being loved" has a long list of points, with sub points. Since I did not have access to those points, I provided a scripture illustrating "being loved" by God. Possibly you were hoping for God to command you to be loved? Well to some extent, that makes little sense, because it is the lover's action.

Rand wrote:We must accept God's love, which I don't believe is conditional, it is always there for the taking. But we are commanded to love.

As shown in John 3, it is quite conditional, the results depending on "[believing] in him". Also consider the following conditional love statements by Jesus Christ:

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
(John 15:9-14)

Here Christ sets 3 conditions for love: 1) He loves as the Father loves, keeping His commandments 2) "ye" should keep his commandments, in order to abide in His love, 3) doing whatsoever He commands is a condition for friendship.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(John 14:21-23)

Rand wrote:I have never seen a scripture that tells us to find a good loving place to dwell, or to make sure you get the love you desire.

Now you have seen both (John15:9, Deut. 1:21).

21 Behold, the LORD thy God hath set the land before thee: go up and possess it, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath said unto thee; fear not, neither be discouraged.
22 ¶ And ye came near unto me every one of you, and said, We will send men before us, and they shall search us out the land, and bring us word again by what way we must go up, and into what cities we shall come.
23 And the saying pleased me well: and I took twelve men of you, one of a tribe:
24 And they turned and went up into the mountain, and came unto the valley of Eschol, and searched it out.
25 And they took of the fruit of the land in their hands, and brought it down unto us, and brought us word again, and said, It is a good land which the LORD our God doth give us.
26 Notwithstanding ye would not go up, but rebelled against the commandment of the LORD your God:
(Deut. 1:21-26)

http://drkellyflanagan.com/2012/03/02/m ... or-losers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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