LDS Freedom Forum

A recent whoopee survey was once a week for newlyweds, then once a month after three years. Of course, maybe those couples weren't doing very well??

Who was it, JF.S, said something about "rarely"?

I would put "affection" and "physical intimacy" higher. And daily, too--to your degree.

I would think the rate is much higher than that. Of course even 'ol Dr. Oz said that the US was experiencing a sexual drought (may explain the boom in porn and overeating) so maybe something is right there.

I heard of a pastor who asked his congregation's married couples to commit to one month of having sex every day. I think he was onto something there.

Also, why should the husband/wife in a relationship who may have a high sex drive have to conform to the husband/wife who may not want to have sex that often? Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you ask me. I have never heard of anyone cheating who gave in and tried to have sex more often, even if it was not high on their priorities, but I have heard of PLENTY of spouses who have sought sex outside of the relationship when they were not getting the levels they wanted.

Fiannan wrote:

A recent whoopee survey was once a week for newlyweds, then once a month after three years. Of course, maybe those couples weren't doing very well??

Who was it, JF.S, said something about "rarely"?

I would put "affection" and "physical intimacy" higher. And daily, too--to your degree.

I would think the rate is much higher than that. Of course even 'ol Dr. Oz said that the US was experiencing a sexual drought (may explain the boom in porn and overeating) so maybe something is right there.

I heard of a pastor who asked his congregation's married couples to commit to one month of having sex every day. I think he was onto something there.

Also, why should the husband/wife in a relationship who may have a high sex drive have to conform to the husband/wife who may not want to have sex that often? Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you ask me. I have never heard of anyone cheating who gave in and tried to have sex more often, even if it was not high on their priorities, but I have heard of PLENTY of spouses who have sought sex outside of the relationship when they were not getting the levels they wanted.

It goes both ways...why should the husband/wife in a relationship who may NOT have a high sex drive have to conform to the husband/wife who does want to have sex often? If a person is enough of an adult to get married, hopefully they're mature enough to realize compromise is needed in any marriage and they may not always get exactly what they want.

Also, "I'm cheating because I'm not getting enough" is a lame excuse. Obviously, people cheat for a number of reasons, but the studies I've come across point to an emotional disconnection...for both men and women. Here's a snippet:

"A marriage counselor for over 20 years, rabbi and author Gary Neuman conducted a two-year study involving 200 men -- 100 who cheated and 100 who remained faithful. His findings form the basis of his 2008 book The Truth About Cheating: Why Men Stray and What You Can Do To Prevent It.

What Neuman learned defies most commonly-held beliefs about why men cheat. Of the men surveyed:

92% say it's not just about sex
88% say the other woman isn't better looking or in better shape
55% don't tell their wives or deny cheating even when confronted with evidence
48% say cheating is about an emotional disconnection from their wives
12% would cheat no matter what"

WhereCanITurn4Peace wrote:..why should the husband/wife in a relationship who may NOT have a high sex drive have to conform to the husband/wife who does want to have sex often?

hopefully they're mature enough to realize compromise is needed in any marriage and they may not always get exactly what they want.

Why conform to their needs? I would say because if you truly love your spouse, you always put their needs, desires & feelings above your own & do whatever it takes to make them happy & content.

We get much more joy from giving our spouse what 'they' want, then getting what 'we' want.

Compromise is nice but it doesn't create 'exultant ecstasy & true love'. That's what Pres. Hinckley said every couple can achieve 'in this life' & I know this is true.

If we are really mature, we will completely submit to our spouse's wishes continually. It's what brings this true love & ecstasy.

Remember in Princess Bride, "As you wish" means 'I love you'. It's very true.

Hopefully they will do the same in return, but if not... we fulfill their wishes anyway, so we can at least enjoy the ecstasy of true love ourselves.

And I believe that when a spouse cheats, whether mentally, emotionally or physically, it has absolutely 'nothing' to do with the other spouse, no matter what the other spouse does or doesn't do.

It has everything to do with the cheater's 'spirituality', which not even their spouse can do much about. Everyone has to get their own 'oil in their lamps' by themselves.

Amore Vero wrote:
Why conform to their needs? I would say because if you truly love your spouse, you always put their needs, desires & feelings above your own & do whatever it takes to make them happy & content.

Compromise is nice but it doesn't create 'exultant ecstasy & true love'. That's what Pres. Hinckley said every couple can achieve 'in this life' & I know this is true.

If we are really mature, we will completely submit to the other's wishes continually. It's what brings this true love & ecstasy.

Remember in Princess Bride, "As you wish" means 'I love you'. It's very true.

Hopefully they will do the same in return, but if not... we fulfill their wishes anyway.

And I believe that when a spouse cheats, whether mentally, emotionally or physically, it has nothing to do with the other spouse, no matter what the other spouse does or doesn't do. It has everything to do with the cheater's 'spirituality', which not even their spouse can do much about. Everyone has to get their own 'oil in their lamps' by themselves.

Part of your post makes no sense, specifically "I would say because if you truly love your spouse, you always put their needs, desires & feelings above your own & do whatever it takes to make them happy & content."

I've heard some men say they need to have ***Warning:Graphic*** threesomes, anal sex, and the like to be happy and content in their marriage. Uh, no thanks! I'm all for serving your spouse and putting them 1st, but let's not be ridiculous, doormats, or co-dependents.

I do agree with you that usually cheating has nothing to do with the spouse that has been cheated on.

WhereCanITurn4Peace wrote: I'm all for serving your spouse and putting them 1st, but let's not be ridiculous, doormats, or co-dependents.

Sorry, I didn't repeat the disclaimer, cause I put it in my post above. But submitting to a spouse definitely does not mean following abusive & evil requests.

It is not love to allow someone to abuse you. But we can still love & serve an abusive spouse in good ways, if even from a safe distance, but not give in to evil requests.

It goes both ways...why should the husband/wife in a relationship who may NOT have a high sex drive have to conform to the husband/wife who does want to have sex often? If a person is enough of an adult to get married, hopefully they're mature enough to realize compromise is needed in any marriage and they may not always get exactly what they want.

Okay, I think maybe everyone has given in to their spouse at a time they felt too tired, too stressed, etc. to be intimate. On the same token everyone has probably been turned down by their spouse when they have really wanted intimacy.

I can say that the mental energy that one has when they have to just try is not going to be negative unless the other spouse is a total jerk in some way or another. However, the mental energy created in the mind of someone who feels rejected in their advances is always going to be negative. If this becomes commonplace then a man/woman is going to become bitter and that is dangerous because there is always someone out there who is going to consciously or sub-consciously going to take advantage of the weakness of the relationship.

FI: The Bible says that sex abstinence must be agreed to by both parties but only for a time. IMO, if one partner is reluctant or worse about having sex often, then the other spouse will be more open to nahving an affair. I beleive this to be the case especially for the years that the sex drive is very active.

What say ye?

If you don't feed your cat properly he or she will find food elsewhere.

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:FI: The Bible says that sex abstinence must be agreed to by both parties but only for a time. IMO, if one partner is reluctant or worse about having sex often, then the other spouse will be more open to nahving an affair. I beleive this to be the case especially for the years that the sex drive is very active.

What say ye?

Where does the bible say this?

Fiannan wrote:If you don't feed your cat properly he or she will find food elsewhere.

Fortunately we don't have to live on the animal plane, if we seek Heavenly Father's help when being abused or neglected, even in sexual ways.

While I agree that being sexually neglected can make us weaker & more susceptible to the adversary's temptations, & the neglectful spouse will also be held accountable for causing the suffering & neglect their spouse goes through & be partly responsible if that spouse strays, but it is ultimately up to the neglected spouse to turn to God for the strength to stay faithful & endure even this kind of abuse & neglect.

We don't have to turn to sin as a response to it all, though most do, for it is impossible to stay strong when abused without Heavenly Father's help. For when we are abused, the natural man response is to become abusive also & sin too.

One thing most people don't realize is that when one person is doing porn it actually turns OFF the other person's sex drive. The reason it turns it off is because someone involved with porn is not available emotionally or spiritually. Porn is about false intimacy. Most people involved with it are sadly enough looking for intimacy in all the wrong places.
One of my best friends was having sex every single day with her husband even when she was pregnant. And he was still masturbating 2-3 times a day. Sorry, but having sex everyday doesn't solve sexual addictions. But most people involved in them think that it will.

Nan wrote:One thing most people don't realize is that when one person is doing porn it actually turns OFF the other person's sex drive. The reason it turns it off is because someone involved with porn is not available emotionally or spiritually.
Sorry, but having sex everyday doesn't solve sexual addictions.

It's true Porn can & will turn the other spouse 'off' IF they don't turn to Heavenly Father to help them maintain true love & desire for their spouse despite their unfaithfulness. It is possible to still love & desire & enjoy an unfaithful spouse, but not without Heavenly Father's help.

It's true, unfortunately, that loving & serving our spouse & doing things like 'having relations everyday' does not always solve addictions or abuse, but we do such things so we can say we are truly loving & faithful despite what they do & that we are keeping our covenants to them even if they don't keep theirs to us. That's what unconditional love is all about.

Samuel the Lamanite wrote:Chica: IF you continue this, I promise you 100% that your marriage will last and do so happily. Plan NOW and save to go on at least one senior mission.

Definitely something we hope to do. If TEOFTWAWKI hasn't occurred by then, and it might because we're still pretty young, we are planning doing so.

Zkulptor wrote:

chicafoom wrote:Great thread idea! I've only been married for 7 years so I hardly consider myself an expert or very experienced yet, but we have learned a few things along the way.

-We received this advice when we got married to tell each other one reason we love each other everyday. We do it after we've said our evening prayers together every night. Sometimes it's silly little things we noticed for the day and sometimes it's something pretty significant, but it just makes us pause and think about the day why we love and appreciate each other. Simple, but very effective.

-Our hobbies and interests are vastly different in a lot of ways. We give each other space to pursue those interests, which is nice, but one way we reconnect is doing projects together like home improvement, organizing things, photo editing, etc. As our children get older we'd like to incorporate the entire family in these projects so our family and household are built through all our efforts.

I have been married for 7 year also...actually 8 this coming week...wow time flies.
Great advice Chica!

Congrats, on your 8. I agree that time really does fly. I feel like I barely graduated from high school, but that's been almost half my lifetime ago.

Nan wrote:One thing most people don't realize is that when one person is doing porn it actually turns OFF the other person's sex drive. The reason it turns it off is because someone involved with porn is not available emotionally or spiritually. Porn is about false intimacy. Most people involved with it are sadly enough looking for intimacy in all the wrong places.
One of my best friends was having sex every single day with her husband even when she was pregnant. And he was still masturbating 2-3 times a day. Sorry, but having sex everyday doesn't solve sexual addictions. But most people involved in them think that it will.

And we could probably find a dozen to one anecdotal examples of men/women giving in to extramarital relationships, or three or four dozen to one examples of men/women turning to porn or explicit novels when they were not getting sex from their spouse.

As for the porn thing, I have not researched that. I have heard one of the reasons the Japanese birthrate is so low is that porn is so accepted and easy to get, but at the same time a while back a member of Sweden's Christian party had urged that the state play non-stop porn on weekends so that people would have more sex and make more babies. I have heard evidence that the Swedish politician actually was correct but I have not actually seen the hard evidence for it in any actual study. All I do know is that if men and women are thinking about sex it increases testosterone in both and therefore increases the sex drive in both -- as well as helping keep the body stronger and younger.

There are some great suggestions in this thread.... I would also like to add if either you or your spouse are incompetent communicators you are setting your spouse and yourself up for a lifetime of misery. My parents got divorce when I was a kid, both of them were horrible role models on how to have a successful and joyful marriage. Even to this day they both are living in hellish situations and are some of the sorriest looking people I have ever set my eyes upon. It is truly sad.

I knew before I got married I would need to learned some relationship skills and how to effectively communicate to my wife to resolve issues, and talk to her in a way that she needed in different situations and to make sure she felt understood, safe and enjoyed being with me. I also wanted make sure the woman that I married was committed to do the same. I had other good role models around me that I looked to for guidance but what really helped was I came across a book that provided effective and practical information, it is called Getting The Love You Want. It was a godsend for me, I learned all sorts of relationship skills that really impressed a lot of different women I dated. Thankfully, I was lucky enough to find someone who was heads and shoulders above the others and I took her to the temple and we were sealed. Within the first two years of our marriage we read the book together and did the exercises, in addition to that, we did the other things the Church teaches and we did truly become one during that time. We have been married for 9 years and we still continue to use the skills we learned from that book. We are completely crazy about each other and when we do have disagreements/misunderstandings they are handle with care, and are not treated in an unconscious reactionary way. I know 9 years is a very short time but I can honestly say we have a Celestial marriage. We have had many experiences and hardships that were handle in a Christlike manner that have brought us closer together. I am so very grateful for the Lord and my wife..... both are my greatest blessings in my life.

Great thread. I have been gone for a while, last time I visited the forum it was so full of fighting, and other garbage so I stayed away. I stopped by today looking for a pick-me up, and this is a nice surprise. 'Like', your story sounds painfully familar, 10 years for me and I have found that I have to be very careful when I am stressed, tired, or presented with a new problem. My initial reactions usually fall back to what I observed as a kid--and that isn't always good.

Recently, two of my good friends from the ward told me their wives want divorces. One was a complete surprise to the guy. It left me feeling vulnerable and led to many long talks with my sweetheart about our relationship. We do a lot of things good for/with each other, and there are some things I can improve. Some of the things my wife does that I love:
• After I get home I greet her and the kids , then she tries to give me 5 minutes or so to relax and transform from employee to father. She rarely jumps me with a list of things to do or an emergency. This wasn’t always so, but this has really helped me.

• She asks for my opinion/input on things that she could easily do herself.

• When I give her my ideas and she doesn’t agree she never laughs or degrades me, she responds with a “I’ve never thought of it that way” , “you might be right” or “yes, dear”

• She never intentionally puts me down or nags me in front of others.

• She lets me ‘overhear’ her praising me to her parents, siblings, or her friends. She is sincere in her compliments.

• She asks about my work, my church calling, my friends.

• She asks if I can help her by watching the kids, while she does whatever she wants/needs to do.

• Except for removing the mouse, she’s never asked me to do a job she wasn’t willing to work with me on or try herself.

• She shows an interest in my hobbies and pastimes.

• She has never criticized me for not making more $$$, asked for a bigger house, a newer car, more clothes etc. But I know she goes without compared to some of her friends.

• When she calls me with little random tid-bits during the day; I know that she is thinking of me.


I might just ask her tonight, What could I do to improve our marriage relationship.

Like: Terrific. This is excellent preparation to serve senior couple missions. When you're together 24/7 there better be great communications.

Tribrac, thanks for listing all those things you like about your wife. Those were really nice things to hear. It's wonderful to have examples like yours & Like's to read & learn from. It sounds like you both are wonderful husbands with wonderful wives, your children are very blessed.

I am sure though, that you & others on here with strong marriages, know of many couples in your family, friends & ward who are struggling, abusive things going on, etc., & it is wonderful when strong couples can take a close couple or two under their wing & see if they can help strengthen them & encourage them on how to have happier marriages.

Don't be afraid to ask a husband or wife that is close to you both, who seems like they might be having trouble, if he or she is happy & if there is anything you can do for them or to help their spouse treat them better, etc. When couples are having trouble or when one is being abused, they often are very quiet about it & don't tell anyone, unless they feel they can trust that person. But they usually really want help & someone to talk to, but just don't dare ask. It's best for both you & your wife to go together to ask the person or only have the wife ask the woman or the man ask the husband.

The Proclamation calls for us to do all we can to help strengthen families to stay together & be happy. As we help to save other's marriages, we secure & protect our own & create a better safer world for us & our children.

tribrac wrote:Great thread. I have been gone for a while, last time I visited the forum it was so full of fighting, and other garbage so I stayed away. I stopped by today looking for a pick-me up, and this is a nice surprise. 'Like', your story sounds painfully familar, 10 years for me and I have found that I have to be very careful when I am stressed, tired, or presented with a new problem. My initial reactions usually fall back to what I observed as a kid--and that isn't always good.

Recently, two of my good friends from the ward told me their wives want divorces. One was a complete surprise to the guy. It left me feeling vulnerable and led to many long talks with my sweetheart about our relationship. We do a lot of things good for/with each other, and there are some things I can improve. Some of the things my wife does that I love:
• After I get home I greet her and the kids , then she tries to give me 5 minutes or so to relax and transform from employee to father. She rarely jumps me with a list of things to do or an emergency. This wasn’t always so, but this has really helped me.

• She asks for my opinion/input on things that she could easily do herself.

• When I give her my ideas and she doesn’t agree she never laughs or degrades me, she responds with a “I’ve never thought of it that way” , “you might be right” or “yes, dear”

• She never intentionally puts me down or nags me in front of others.

• She lets me ‘overhear’ her praising me to her parents, siblings, or her friends. She is sincere in her compliments.

• She asks about my work, my church calling, my friends.

• She asks if I can help her by watching the kids, while she does whatever she wants/needs to do.

• Except for removing the mouse, she’s never asked me to do a job she wasn’t willing to work with me on or try herself.

• She shows an interest in my hobbies and pastimes.

• She has never criticized me for not making more $$$, asked for a bigger house, a newer car, more clothes etc. But I know she goes without compared to some of her friends.

• When she calls me with little random tid-bits during the day; I know that she is thinking of me.


I might just ask her tonight, What could I do to improve our marriage relationship.

Thanks for that post. Exactly what I was hoping we might gain from this thread. It sounds like your wife is a special person, and loves you with a pure love. You are a lucky man.

Fiannan wrote:

It goes both ways...why should the husband/wife in a relationship who may NOT have a high sex drive have to conform to the husband/wife who does want to have sex often? If a person is enough of an adult to get married, hopefully they're mature enough to realize compromise is needed in any marriage and they may not always get exactly what they want.

Okay, I think maybe everyone has given in to their spouse at a time they felt too tired, too stressed, etc. to be intimate. On the same token everyone has probably been turned down by their spouse when they have really wanted intimacy.

I can say that the mental energy that one has when they have to just try is not going to be negative unless the other spouse is a total jerk in some way or another. However, the mental energy created in the mind of someone who feels rejected in their advances is always going to be negative. If this becomes commonplace then a man/woman is going to become bitter and that is dangerous because there is always someone out there who is going to consciously or sub-consciously going to take advantage of the weakness of the relationship.

I know this is an emotionally charged subject, but think in terms of agency. If you let your spouses use of their agency to not be intimate, which is their right, as a reason to use your agency to be offended, you are not choosing wisely. This approach is not going to build a relationship of love and respect.

Intimacy is to build posterity and to build closeness. But, expecting your spouse to be intimate because it fits your agenda, and you haven't served, nurtured and edified them to the point they feel that close to you, or they are that tired and overdone to the point it isn't on their agenda, then your appetites are not being used to nurture you and your relationship, but to control you. That is not a good path.

+1 To Rand's post!

Nan, I am in good company when you agree with me.

Nan wrote:Men usually feel closer to their wives when they have sex. Women need to feel close to their husband to have sex. Most men don't figure that out very well or quickly enough. Frankly the best sex is when you are also experiencing emotional and spiritual intimacy on a regular basis as well.

BINGO!

A cake needs all the ingredients to taste good. If you leave something out, it just doesn't work. Same with marriage.

My favorite saying in marriage is "People expect marriage to be a treasure box full of exotic things. Marriage is an empty box, it only contains what we put in it....."

Rand wrote:I know this is an emotionally charged subject, but think in terms of agency. If you let your spouses use of their agency to not be intimate, which is their right, as a reason to use your agency to be offended, you are not choosing wisely. This approach is not going to build a relationship of love and respect.

Intimacy is to build posterity and to build closeness. But, expecting your spouse to be intimate because it fits your agenda, and you haven't served, nurtured and edified them to the point they feel that close to you, or they are that tired and overdone to the point it isn't on their agenda, then your appetites are not being used to nurture you and your relationship, but to control you. That is not a good path.

Awesome post, Rand! :ymapplause:

What some husbands have figured out is they don't have to pressure their wives for sex because when the husbands are "plugged in" (in other words...emotionally available) and are being loving, caring, and sincerely solicitous towards their wives, it's a natural occurrence that a wife most of the time will want to be intimate. Of course, there are always days when things aren't going right or somebody's crabby, so to quote Scarlett O'Hara..."After all, tomorrow is another day".

I also like your favotire saying, Galticus.