What constitutes APOSTASY? And helping each other avoid it

[TheBrotherOfJared]

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[TheBrotherOfJared]

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[Captain Moroni]

Brother, no I'm not. The beats will arise before the end of the 3 1/2 year tribulation period
which IMO began in October, 2008 with the Global meltdown. I would expect that IF Obama is elected, the beast will come in his administration.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

I think that there are many saints that would leave all behind if the channels were the correct channels, whether it be through personal revelation like Lehi, or an exodus.

My family has a long history of leaving everything and just going. I experienced this in my childhood, and also in my marriage. We left pretty much everything when we moved to Missouri.

We took our records, one set of dishes per person including one set of utensils, 7 outfits, one sauce pan, one frying pan, what food we could fit in the 1989 Ford Taurus around the 4 car seats and 2 adults, pillows and blankets, a can opener, and the only non essential I brought was a sentimental tapa cloth. I ended up giving it away later.

[Captain Moroni]

Proud, God has blessed you with these es]xeperiences. They will come in handy in the last day events. I hope you've thanked Him.

[shadow]

Brother of Jared, here is my scenario.

Probably in early April, 2009 (remember GC occurs then), each Stake President and then to the Bishops will receive a PRIVATE communication from The 1st Presidency to contact all his members privately and have them bring their year's supply to the Wardhouse to dedicate it. Everyone will thus have partially started living the Law of Consecration.

The Church will have detaiuled directions of exactly what to do including renting U-Hauls, etc to consolidate the dedicated food supplies. This will have a deadline of 72 hours before the trucks leave for the MW wilderness. The saints will NOT be asked to dedicate their 72 hour kit. With constant driving, the saints anywhere in the USA can reach the MW wilderness. Wise virgins in other lands will have safe haven provided.

Then members will journey into the MW wilderness to their assigned locations leaving all behind just like Lehi had to do. The Church is good at organizating such matters. Also, remember that each SP should have a satellite telephone as part of Emergency Preparedness.

Honestly, let each of us do some deep soul searching. How many saints including me and you would leave all behind? In essence to be willing to live the FULL LofC? Only, the wise virgins who are praped both spiritually and physically.

We will see by April, 2009 if my scenario or something like happens in just 6 MONTHS. If I'm wrong, so be it. You will be better prepared both spiritually and physically. In other words, a win-win situation.

Make sure you have a current TR and USE it as mcuh as possible. This will greatly increase our level of spirituality and committ,ment to live all Covenants.

Search your heart and soul so you are 100% committed to living the FULL LofC. You can't wait until April,2009 to do this just like the unwise virgins tried to do but the door was locked.

[oneClimbs]

The best thing we can do is to get connected with the Spirit of the Lord and help others do the same by following the council given to us at General Conference and at the local level. Obedience brings the Spirit and the Spirit empowers us to know all things.

40 days after Moses left the children of Israel, they were bowing to a golden calf. Do we remember what we were instructed to do 40 days after Conference, 2 days? We need to rise up and be the people Joel prophesied about, do we ALWAYS have the Spirit with us? Or are we too consumed with the world and too trusting in the arm of the flesh (looking for the answers mostly in conspiracy theories, or the wisdom of men) or do we humble ourselves and gain insight from the one who sees all.

Whatever the future holds, Zion will be a community of those who can hear the voice of the Lord. I take great comfort in knowing that there were people like the converts of Ammon. I know that we can be the same today.

Alma 23:6 - And as sure as the Lord liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge of the truth, through the preaching of Ammon [Monson] and his brethren, according to the spirit of revelation and of prophecy, and the power of God working miracles in them—yea, I say unto you, as the Lord liveth, as many of the Lamanites as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away.

[Swmorgan77]

Lets also point out that variance from the LDS culture at large, in some aspect therof that is extra-doctrinal or anti-doctrinal is most decidedly NOT apostasy and in fact would be required to avoid apostasy in the case of the latter.

[CHH]

MW= Moutain West, NOT just Utah and not just the USA. IF the call comes to leave your home like Lehi did and go into the wilderness, IT WILL COME THORUGH PRIESTHOOD CHANNLES. DON'T LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU DIFFERENTLY.

So if God tells you directly don't believe Him?

[CHH]

Make sure you have a current TR and USE it as much as possible. This will greatly increase our level of spirituality and commitment to live all Covenants.

Search your heart and soul so you are 100% committed to living the FULL LofC. You can't wait until April,2009 to do this just like the unwise virgins tried to do but the door was locked.

[/quote]

And if you don't have a Year Supply ahead because you had to use it because the Cops hurt you and financially cripple you you can be sure that you will be unable to go.

So be sure to buy your Year Supply ahead and go to the temple using the money you get from Unemployment benefits or Social Security.

Oh yes. Be sure to do all your church work paid for by your check from the government.

And remember that you cannot be living the FULL LofC while being a Socialist.

So where does that leave most members? On the other side of a locked door locked to keep the Socialists and wards of the Government out.

[Swmorgan77]

MW= Moutain West, NOT just Utah and not just the USA. IF the call comes to leave your home like Lehi did and go into the wilderness, IT WILL COME THORUGH PRIESTHOOD CHANNLES. DON'T LET ANYONE CONVINCE YOU DIFFERENTLY.

So if God tells you directly don't believe Him?

Good question. So WHO is the "priesthood channel" for a decision for your family? Whose stewardship is that? Did Lehi get his instruction to leave from the ordained priests at Jerusalem?

[shadow]

CHH, you quoted incorrectly (slandered). It wasn't I that made those posts, it was "Captain Moroni". I was just quoting him. Please edit/correct your post! He and I did not agree on much. He belittled those that did not believe as he did. His prediction of the April 2009 conference call-out is at the door. I just wanted to remind him in case he drops by again.
Thanks.

[CHH]

CHH, you quoted incorrectly (slandered). It wasn't I that made those posts, it was "Captain Moroni". I was just quoting him. Please edit/correct your post! He and I did not agree on much. He belittled those that did not believe as he did. His prediction of the April 2009 conference call-out is at the door. I just wanted to remind him in case he drops by again.
Thanks.

Sorry! I am on drugs. and that is not a joke.

[shadow]

Sorry! I am on drugs. and that is not a joke.

Sweet!

I hope you get feeling better soon.

[TheBrotherOfJared]

Brother of Jared, here is my scenario.

Probably in early April, 2009 (remember GC occurs then), each Stake President and then to the Bishops will receive a PRIVATE communication from The 1st Presidency to contact all his members privately and have them bring their year's supply to the Wardhouse to dedicate it. Everyone will thus have partially started living the Law of Consecration.

The Church will have detaiuled directions of exactly what to do including renting U-Hauls, etc to consolidate the dedicated food supplies. This will have a deadline of 72 hours before the trucks leave for the MW wilderness. The saints will NOT be asked to dedicate their 72 hour kit. With constant driving, the saints anywhere in the USA can reach the MW wilderness. Wise virgins in other lands will have safe haven provided.

Then members will journey into the MW wilderness to their assigned locations leaving all behind just like Lehi had to do. The Church is good at organizating such matters. Also, remember that each SP should have a satellite telephone as part of Emergency Preparedness.

Honestly, let each of us do some deep soul searching. How many saints including me and you would leave all behind? In essence to be willing to live the FULL LofC? Only, the wise virgins who are praped both spiritually and physically.

We will see by April, 2009 if my scenario or something like happens in just 6 MONTHS. If I'm wrong, so be it. You will be better prepared both spiritually and physically. In other words, a win-win situation.

Make sure you have a current TR and USE it as mcuh as possible. This will greatly increase our level of spirituality and committ,ment to live all Covenants.

Search your heart and soul so you are 100% committed to living the FULL LofC. You can't wait until April,2009 to do this just like the unwise virgins tried to do but the door was locked.

Anyone here received a communication from their Bishops regarding your food supply to be taken down to the Bishops Warehouse to prepare for transporting yourself to the wilderness?

[firend]

Hello Captain Moroni,

There is no way that we would be required to give all of our food, etc over to the bishop without a stewardship being given back. Am I reading this right? That you think we are to give our food, water, etc over to the bishop, then just get on a bus or something and off to our assigned mountain hideaway? That would be theft from the bishops, and the PTB could come in and in one swift stroke all the Mormons food and supplies is gone.

The whole purpose of the LOC and UO is to protect not only the church rights, but the individuals rights. If we give all our supplies by demand, and no stewardship is given back as legal protection, that is theft. That would not be demanded.

Lehi's story was much different in context. Also if you have been a wise virgin, why would God have the church take your stuff, and give it to the many unwise virgins.

The power of a callout would be in individual stewardship rights under the direction of administative authority of the bishops in temporal affairs. Every person who has been a wise virgin will be able to continue to take care of their supplies. If all is taken by the church , and we just take a number with the rest of the mormon crowd.....wow! If all is taken, then the PTB can sweep in and clean all the supplies away, since all were given to the church, and your storeroom is now empty.

[kathyn]

The whole purpose of the LOC and UO is to protect not only the church rights, but the individuals rights. If we give all our supplies by demand, and no stewardship is given back as legal protection, that is theft. That would not be demanded.

Firend, that is correct. Too many people have a skewed notion about the Law of Consecration. It gives protection to the individual as well as the church. Previously, when a man donated everything to the church, the church deeded the land he needed back to him. It was the excess donation that didn't return to him, especially if he left the church. But his property was legally his. We aren't excused from living the LOC right now. It's never been rescinded and if you go to the temple you'll know this is true. We are to give of our excess substance, time and talents now. The law of tithing isn't a "lesser" law. It is part of the LOC. We aren't fully living the Law of Consecration right now, I wish we were. We'd all be a lot better off. We all have stewardship and accountability right now. It's about how we use what we've been given.

The Lord said if we didn't have charity, we were nothing. If we see others in need and we don't help, we are condemned. We need to take care of ourselves and our families first and then help others where we can. This is how we'll become a Zion people. Heck, we can't even seem to be good home and visiting teachers and see that as a chore. It's the front line effort of becoming a Zion people and the quicker we learn that, the closer we'll be to becoming a Zion people.

Everything is the Lord's anyway. We're just supposed to use what we have to take care of our families and each other.

[shadow]

Brother of Jared, here is my scenario.

Probably in early April, 2009 (remember GC occurs then), each Stake President and then to the Bishops will receive a PRIVATE communication from The 1st Presidency to contact all his members privately and have them bring their year's supply to the Wardhouse to dedicate it. Everyone will thus have partially started living the Law of Consecration.

The Church will have detaiuled directions of exactly what to do including renting U-Hauls, etc to consolidate the dedicated food supplies. This will have a deadline of 72 hours before the trucks leave for the MW wilderness. The saints will NOT be asked to dedicate their 72 hour kit. With constant driving, the saints anywhere in the USA can reach the MW wilderness. Wise virgins in other lands will have safe haven provided.

Then members will journey into the MW wilderness to their assigned locations leaving all behind just like Lehi had to do. The Church is good at organizating such matters. Also, remember that each SP should have a satellite telephone as part of Emergency Preparedness.

Honestly, let each of us do some deep soul searching. How many saints including me and you would leave all behind? In essence to be willing to live the FULL LofC? Only, the wise virgins who are praped both spiritually and physically.

We will see by April, 2009 if my scenario or something like happens in just 6 MONTHS. If I'm wrong, so be it. You will be better prepared both spiritually and physically. In other words, a win-win situation.

Make sure you have a current TR and USE it as mcuh as possible. This will greatly increase our level of spirituality and committ,ment to live all Covenants.

Search your heart and soul so you are 100% committed to living the FULL LofC. You can't wait until April,2009 to do this just like the unwise virgins tried to do but the door was locked.

Interesting.
You were flat out wrong BTW.

And just to clarify in case some people here don't know- Captain Moroni now goes by Samuel the Lamanite.

[Rose Garden]

What else? (In other words, how do we prepare to AVOID falling away?)

But the best thing is just to be firm, steadfast, and immovable. We have a great example from some Lamanites in the Book of Mormon. Alma 23:6. "And as sure as the Lord liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge of the truth, through the preaching of Ammon and his brethren, according to the spirit of revelation and of prophecy, and the power of God working miracles in them—yea, I say unto you, as the Lord liveth, as many of the Lamanites as believed in their preaching, and were converted unto the Lord, never did fall away."

That is pretty powerful--never did fall away.

So really, it is going to come down to how much resolve we have. How much do we desire to be faithful no matter what.

Zion or bust, I liked all your points. This one stood out to me because we have been given the key to becoming like these Lamanites. We can find that key here, in 3 Nephi 9: 20
And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not.

Many members seem to believe that once they have been baptized by immersion in a font or other body of water, they are done with baptism. However, Alma the younger made an interesting statement along those lines in Alma 5:62:
I speak by way of command unto you that belong to the church; and unto those who do not belong to the church I speak by way of invitation, saying: Come and be baptized unto repentance, that ye also may be partakers of the fruit of the tree of life.

Why would he be commanding members of the church to be baptized? Baptism is more than just the physical ordinance of being dunked in the water. Once we have completed that step, we are under the obligation to seek the baptism of fire. This baptism is the process of actually becoming like Christ, making His teachings so much a part of us that we no longer desire to sin. Those who truly desire this second baptism will eventually receive it, and that is the key to becoming strong enough to withstand apostasy. It is not a guarantee that you will not fall away, but it does mean you will be strong enough, as long as you don't turn away at that point, to withstand apostasy.

I like the word you used "desire". It truly is the key. We can't of ourselves change our hearts; however, if we have the desire and keep working toward this end, the Savior will lead us along, changing us along the way, until we have completed this great journey. See Elder Oaks Conference talk from this past Conference for more information on the power of desire.

Wow! Just noticed I was two years late answering this post! Oh, well, it's still all true.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

SW: Great question. My trust is first in the HG message and then the GAs IFthe HG confirms. I certainly hope that our Brethren will do as God asks.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Shadow and others: Did you notice the big IF in the predictions? Do you have the courage to tell us who you are? The only thing that hasn't happened is the timing. *I stand by the other items. I've found as I exercise the gift given me in my PB that I'm "inpatient" and thus expect the events to occur sooner than they will. It seems that God refuses to tell the exact day and hour of the 2nd Coming. Js knew the Cival War would happen but didn't give a date but said it would start in SC. That war occured after his death. Peopl who fail to receive dreams often attack those who do. I would suggest that this attitude is THE reason they don't receive dreams.

For those who think that the Law of Consecration will NOT be implemented before the "calling out," you have a very shallow understanding. We willingly donate (apparently you're too selfish to share with the less fortunate so you probably won't be called out) . That way when food is redistributed, all will be equal. NOT all will have a year's supply for a number reasons but they have their hearts in the right place and good intentions. We will have to be united during the period of the calling out, learninbg to toatlly live Celestail Law. We will have a great teacher... Jesus Christ. many of the called out will be in the Army of Israel and be at AOA. The remainder will travel and help Lamanites build NJ.

Could my scenario be wrong? Yes. But as I said in the messaage posted here, IF I'm off on a few details, you still win because you will have developed the preparation needed both phyiscally and more improtant be better able to live the Celstial Laws gained in the Law of Consecration.

I have no problem with anyone thinking I'm crazy and/or totally dismissing what I say. It does disturb me the mocking given. It is much easier for me to remain silent, allowing others to find out the hard way.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Brother: The cynicism and mocking sounds just like those who mock the Saints because Jesus has delayed His coming. It is harmful because it gives justification to slack off in preparing. Is that your motivation or simply putting down me and others who believe there will be a calling out?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Shadow: I didn't use the handle Captain Moroni as it was already taken. I never meant any deception as you implied in your post. I will even give my name: Doug Schell, King, NC. The only reason I didn't use my real name is NOT out of fear/paranoia but this didn't seem to be the way of this particular forum. Brother of Jared and Shadow, will give out your real names or stand behind the "curtain?"

[Samuel the Lamanite]

We may again be rebaptized in the future. Why? The CofJCLDS is a foreerunner to the Church of the Frist Born which likely will be the Church in the call out. Could I be wrong? Certainly but it fits God's patterns.

[shadow]

Shadow: I didn't use the handle Captain Moroni as it was already taken (It's taken by you!). I never meant any deception as you implied in your post. I will even give my name: Doug Schell, King, NC. The only reason I didn't use my real name is NOT out of fear/paranoia but this didn't seem to be the way of this particular forum. Brother of Jared and Shadow, will give out your real names or stand behind the "curtain?"

I wasn't implying at all that you're deceptive for using two different names, I just wanted the readers to know that Captain Moroni and Samuel the Lamanite are the same person. Many people here have used different names, I'm not one of them.