'Communism is no longer a threat'

For discussion of secret combinations (political, economic, spiritual, religious, etc.) (Ether 8:18-25.)
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Col. Flagg
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'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Col. Flagg »

I'm hoping Mark sees this - the subject line were the words and was the message from our Stake High Council last week in sacrament meeting.

sbsion
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by sbsion »

fortunately, he's not an annoitted one

Silas
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Silas »

Riiiight, cause Satan usually gives up whenever he meets any resistance...

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Original_Intent
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Original_Intent »

Silas wrote:Riiiight, cause Satan usually gives up whenever he meets any resistance...
Or Satan doesn't know how to deceive. So many authoritative books on this - Perestroika Deception, New Lies for Old....

medved
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by medved »

And that statement may be correct. The word "threat" implies an impending and/or intent to cause harm. In my mind if the harm has materialized it ceases to be a threat or an eventuality and becomes an existing harm. For example, if Thug A says to Victim B "hey, give me your money or I will shoot you," that's a threat. Once Thug A shots Victim B the harm has materialized and ceases to be a threat and has rather evolved into reality.

If the statement in your caption can be read to indicate that communism, or likely more accurately socialism, is no longer a threat because it has arrived, there may be some truth to that.

However, I am inclined to disagree if he really meant that communism qua communism is no longer a threat a la' the cold war. This ignores the Red Dragon nation. Which, IMO, has gone on for far too long and will result in some as yet unrealized harm, and is therefore a current threat.

What do you think?

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Original_Intent
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Post by Original_Intent »

In his 1984 book, New Lies for Old, KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn not only warned of the fake collapse of the Soviet Union years before it happened, but also warned that their would be a new military alliance with China during the final phase of the plan around 1999! Along with Gen. Jan Sejna, a high ranking Czech defector who provided similar warnings in his 1982 book, We Will Bury You, Golitsyn warned that the entire KGB effort was to be a grand deception to first disarm the West by faking the Soviet collapse, then to steal the West’s technology and money, and finally, to use it to destroy the West.

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mes5464
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by mes5464 »

Col. Flagg wrote:I'm hoping Mark sees this - the subject line were the words and was the message from our Stake High Council last week in sacrament meeting.
All I can say is Ezra T Benson would have rebuked this.

jeanpierre
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by jeanpierre »

Col., please let us know what more comes of that statement. It should be rebuked.

Amore Vero
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Amore Vero »

Col. Flagg wrote:the subject line were the words and was the message from our Stake High Council last week in sacrament meeting.

This just shows us how dire & black things are today.

And if we don't have the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth of all things, we're going to be easily & quickly deceived, even while sitting in Church.

lundbaek
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by lundbaek »

As I think about this, it would help to know the full context in which the statement was made. It is a statement that by itself I find difficult to rebutt in a convincing manner. Since it was spoken by a local church leader, it would take a statement to the contrary by an apostle or the First Presidency to refute it. And I don't think one could wring such a statement out of any General Authority at this time.

How can one make a convincing statement in 4-5 sentences that Communism is alive and well, How can one make a convincing statement in 4-5 sentences that our constitutional republic is being replaced with a socialist dictatorship ?

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Moss Man
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Moss Man »

Was this Councilor speaking on assignment from the Stake (they usually do)? If so, does it tell you the mind of your Stake leadership? What areas of the Stake (missionary, YM, YW, etc.) does this Councilor oversee?

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Col. Flagg
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Col. Flagg »

Moss Man wrote:Was this Councilor speaking on assignment from the Stake (they usually do)? If so, does it tell you the mind of your Stake leadership? What areas of the Stake (missionary, YM, YW, etc.) does this Councilor oversee?
Yes - when the High Council speaks on a certain topic, they are typically doing so on assignment from the Stake Presidency (as was the case here). I fully understand the comments coming from those who disagree with the statement and I agree, to a lesser extent, that there is still a threat from Russia/China militarily, but as far as the threat of communist deception designed to fool the west (us) into thinking that the USSR is dead so that one day the deception can be used against us unknowingly, that is no longer in existence - the USSR collapsed in 1989 and broke into several independent states. Here we are 22 years later and communism, as a whole, is no longer the threat it once was. Where is the real power and control in the world today? With the international financiers. Are they all communists in disguise? No. Who controls world finance today? The IMF, the BIS, the Bank of England and the 'Fed', with two controlling families at the top (Rothschilds and Rockefellers).

These 'banksters' are solely responsible for the misery, death, looting, plunder, theft and austerity measures being forced upon people today. Likewise, has Vladamir Putin or Medvedev been shredding our Constitution, groping genitals in our airports, spying on U.S. citizens or demolishing 3 skyscrapers to justify wars of aggression for money, power and control and to cover-up massive financial crimes while cleverly getting rid of two asbestos-filled, condemned structures in a slick cost-saving, money-making scheme? Have they been demanding that we increase our debt ceiling? Have they been causing riots in other countries because of austerity measures enacted by governments as a pretext for more bail-out money? Are they responsible for the torture of innocent rebels in secret prisons and detention centers? Are they responsible for the infringement of our civil liberties under the so-called 'Patriot Act'? Communist threat? Hardly - I call them secret combinations and conspiring men - look up Ether chapter 8 in the B of M for further details. Furthermore, who was Christ's greatest threat during his earthly ministry and mission? The money-changers (San Hedron) which is most of the reason he was crucified - he was challenging their power and authority and exposing them for their fraud and evil practices of usurpation.

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Songbird
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Songbird »

sbsion wrote:fortunately, he's not an annoitted one
Anyone who has received his/her endowments in the temple has been anointed.

JohnnyL
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by JohnnyL »

Anyone who has received his/her endowments in the temple has been anointed.
Yes... but different anointing, and spoken of in different contexts.

If communism is no longer a threat, I wonder what govt. will exist when WW3 starts and the USA fights Russia...

Though I agree that communism isn't, and never has been, the biggest threat--but those behind those behind it.

loquaciousmomma
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by loquaciousmomma »

medved wrote:And that statement may be correct. The word "threat" implies an impending and/or intent to cause harm. In my mind if the harm has materialized it ceases to be a threat or an eventuality and becomes an existing harm. For example, if Thug A says to Victim B "hey, give me your money or I will shoot you," that's a threat. Once Thug A shots Victim B the harm has materialized and ceases to be a threat and has rather evolved into reality.

If the statement in your caption can be read to indicate that communism, or likely more accurately socialism, is no longer a threat because it has arrived, there may be some truth to that.

However, I am inclined to disagree if he really meant that communism qua communism is no longer a threat a la' the cold war. This ignores the Red Dragon nation. Which, IMO, has gone on for far too long and will result in some as yet unrealized harm, and is therefore a current threat.

What do you think?
This is interesting. I was just thinking about this very thing today when I was reading about the Rural Council that the president created.

There is no threat, only reality. Remember "capitalism is dead". We hear so many things that we discard most of what we hear. There is a reason they said this.

sbsion
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by sbsion »

Songbird wrote:
sbsion wrote:fortunately, he's not an annoitted one
Anyone who has received his/her endowments in the temple has been anointed.
sooooooooooooo.......he can speak

lundbaek
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by lundbaek »

The 10 Planks of the Communist Manifesto:

1.) The abolition of private property

2.) A heavy progressive tax on income - a graduated income tax

3.) The abolition of all rights of inheritance

4.) The confiscation of all property from emigrants and rebels

5.) The centralization of credit in the hands of the state by means of a national bank (an exclusive money monopoly by the state)

6.) Centralization of communication into state control

7.) Extension of factories and other production owned by the state. Also bringing waste lands into cultivation and the improvement of the soil generally in accorcance with a common plan

8.) Equal liability of all to labour, establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture

9.) The combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equirable distribution of population over the country

10.) Free education for all children in publid schools, abolition of children's factory labour in its present form, and combination of education with industrial production

Where do we stand today in America along this path, and toward which of these planks are we progressing the fastest ?

I think some of you realize now that Russia and the USSR were made into a formidable enemy of the United States by certain Americans and other Westerners for the express purpose of playing the Hegelian game and among other things, altering the USA from a constitutional repupblic ito a socialist dictatorship. I've posted my personal evidences of this elsewhere, along with info about it from sources I trust more than I would trust ....I'd best not go there.

Mr Lonely
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Mr Lonely »

JohnnyL wrote:
Anyone who has received his/her endowments in the temple has been anointed.
Though I agree that communism isn't, and never has been, the biggest threat--but those behind those behind it.
I agree with this, but with the thought that China, and a few others, are still Communist. And have some mighty BIG rocks they can throw around. What worries me is that we are allowing them to establish colonies here, in the US. I don't have the reference, but there is a thread about Idaho working with them to establish a free trade zone South of Boise. It would be 30,00 acres, or about 6 square miles. It would be under the jurisdiction of the Chinese govt owned company, and security would be provided by the Chinese military. Sounds to me like a colony, same thing we do at our bases around the world. And for the same purpose, I think. But, what do I know?

BTW, could you give us an outline of his talk? Maybe I'm getting my daily exercise by jumping to conclusions?

Mr Lonely

davedan
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by davedan »

Well there is no threat to Zion. But President George Albert Smith, Joel, and John see the heathen armies (Russia and China) burn the heck out of Babylon.

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clarkkent14
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by clarkkent14 »

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
 
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

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Mark
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Mark »

Col. Flagg wrote:I'm hoping Mark sees this - the subject line were the words and was the message from our Stake High Council last week in sacrament meeting.

Pardon me for not joining in on the festivities but having served in a high council before I would very much doubt that a Stake President would assign his high councilors to speak on the threat of communism in a ward. In fact I would bet my food storage that this topic was not assigned to the high council by the Stake President. Are you sure Col. that you weren't comatose during this talk and just dreamed all this? :)) I know that I have put many a member to sleep during some of my talks so it has been known to happen..

freedomforall
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lundbaek
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by lundbaek »

I don't ever remember hearing a talk about the danger or threat of Communism in a church meeting except those statements made years ago in general conferences, especially by President McKay and Ezra Taft Benson. While living in W. Germany in 1973 I was told that a member speaking in a sacrament meeting in another ward had made some disparaging remarks about communism and the E. German governemnt which later that same week were brought to the attention of the E. German mission president by some E. German government official.

I do not doubt that Col. Flagg heard correctly. A few months ago our ward was advised by our high council Rep. that we should not concern ourselves with conspiracy theories. He said it in a way milktoast way that disuaded me from later challenging the statement. Our current high council Rep. is very much on the same page with many of us, and even asked me this week for a list of general authority statements about our responsibility to the US Constitution and its preservation. I do not expect his to push that subject in our meetings, but he is awake and aware.

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Col. Flagg
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by Col. Flagg »

Mark wrote:
Col. Flagg wrote:I'm hoping Mark sees this - the subject line were the words and was the message from our Stake High Council last week in sacrament meeting.

Pardon me for not joining in on the festivities but having served in a high council before I would very much doubt that a Stake President would assign his high councilors to speak on the threat of communism in a ward. In fact I would bet my food storage that this topic was not assigned to the high council by the Stake President. Are you sure Col. that you weren't comatose during this talk and just dreamed all this? :)) I know that I have put many a member to sleep during some of my talks so it has been known to happen..
Mark, I cannot claim to know what the exact topic was he was assigned to speak on, but a good portion of the address was in reference to the history of communism, the Baltic states, control of others and restricting man's free agency and near the end of his talk, he uttered the exact words 'communism is no longer a threat'.

freedomforall
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Re: 'Communism is no longer a threat'

Post by freedomforall »

lundbaek wrote:I don't ever remember hearing a talk about the danger or threat of Communism in a church meeting except those statements made years ago in general conferences, especially by President McKay and Ezra Taft Benson. While living in W. Germany in 1973 I was told that a member speaking in a sacrament meeting in another ward had made some disparaging remarks about communism and the E. German governemnt which later that same week were brought to the attention of the E. German mission president by some E. German government official.

I do not doubt that Col. Flagg heard correctly. A few months ago our ward was advised by our high council Rep. that we should not concern ourselves with conspiracy theories. He said it in a way milktoast way that disuaded me from later challenging the statement. Our current high council Rep. is very much on the same page with many of us, and even asked me this week for a list of general authority statements about our responsibility to the US Constitution and its preservation. I do not expect his to push that subject in our meetings, but he is awake and aware.
Waking up is key.

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