DO WE HAVE TO STRIVE FOR UNCONDITIONAL LOVE?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

http://lds.org/liahona/2003/02/divine-l ... ional+love" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In this talk, Elder Nelson differentiates between Dive Love saying such love is still conditional. What say ye?

[Songbird]

What is "dive" love? Did you mean divine love?

[keeprunning]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 32&t=11121" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You can see this huge thread that had it hashed out pretty well!

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Songbird: Thanks for correcting me. Yes, divine love.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Keep: I've only been here for about two monts so I wasn't aware that this issue had been hashed over. Is there a way to withdraw this thread? If so, I will remove it. Sorry

[sbsion]

"have ye experience a might change...."? How?

[LukeAir2008]

Keep: I've only been here for about two monts so I wasn't aware that this issue had been hashed over. Is there a way to withdraw this thread? If so, I will remove it. Sorry

This particular thread caused a war last time with people leaving the forum and getting extremely upset. Are you sure you want to run with this one again?

[keeprunning]

No need to apologize, I was just giving you the link in case you wanted to read it!

This is good from lds.org

“Some gifts coming from the Atonement are universal, infinite, and unconditional,” taught Elder Holland. “These include His ransom for Adam’s original transgression [and] the Resurrection from the dead of every man, woman, and child who lives, has ever lived, or ever will live on earth.

“Other aspects of Christ’s atoning gift are conditional. They depend on one’s diligence in keeping God’s commandments.”

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Luke: Tell me a way to remove this thread and I will do so.

[LukeAir2008]

No need to apologize, I was just giving you the link in case you wanted to read it!

This is good from lds.org

“Some gifts coming from the Atonement are universal, infinite, and unconditional,” taught Elder Holland. “These include His ransom for Adam’s original transgression [and] the Resurrection from the dead of every man, woman, and child who lives, has ever lived, or ever will live on earth.

“Other aspects of Christ’s atoning gift are conditional. They depend on one’s diligence in keeping God’s commandments.”

And this is an example of why there was a lot of confusion over this subject. This thread should be about God's love but you are speaking about gifts and rewards which Is a seperate subject often confused with God's love.

[LukeAir2008]

This is an excellent talk by Dallin H Oaks which clarifies the subject and corrects any misconceptions that may have been attributed to Elder Nelson's talk.

http://lds.org/general-conference/2009/ ... w?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Amore Vero]

I believe that not only is Heavenly Father & Christ's love completely 'unconditional', they expect us to have this same kind of 'unconditional' love for others, especially our spouse & children. Possessing 'unconditional love' (Charity) is the true test for Exaltation. Without it we are nothing.

Being able to 'feel' Heavenly Father's unconditional love & receive all of his blessings & gifts here & in eternity, is what is 'conditional' & usually depends on our worthiness & whether we also possess unconditional love.

Only those who possess unconditional love can completely understand it & know of it's truthfulness.

Those who don't believe in having 'unconditional' love just don't want to have to do what it takes to gain it. For it's the hardest thing to obtain in this life & requires the most sacrifice. But those who do possess it, 'it shall be well with them at the last day.'

And as Christ taught, even the wicked can love those who love them, that is no test or proof of righteousness, while only the righteous can love unconditionally, even those who don't love them.

There seems to have been more Prophets & G.A.'s who have taught & believed in Heavenly Father's unconditional love, then there are who haven't believed in it.

If Christ didn't show 'unconditional' love for us by his Atonement, then I don't know what we would call it. He suffered & died for his enemies, like Hitler, just the same as for the righteous, & would have still done so even if Hitler had been the only person on earth.

For 'unconditional love' has nothing to do with what the other person is like, or if they are worthy or deserving of our love, it's all about our 'willingness & ability' to love, serve & sacrifice for them 'unconditionally' forever, no matter what the other person feels, thinks or does.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Amore: I think you're right in line with what I beleive. The blessings are conditional but not the love. Food for thought: does God with His unconditional love for all His children, can he love at a differnt level of intensity for the obedient vs the disobedient and the willfully disobedient?

Also, its good to see even the GAs can disgaree on some issues. This is human. IF peolle think all GC talks are scripture, then should I live which scripture? The divene love one or the unconditional love one? What say ye?

[Nan]

Amore: I think you're right in line with what I beleive. The blessings are conditional but not the love. Food for thought: does God with His unconditional love for all His children, can he love at a differnt level of intensity for the obedient vs the disobedient and the willfully disobedient?

Also, its good to see even the GAs can disgaree on some issues. This is human. IF peolle think all GC talks are scripture, then should I live which scripture? The divene love one or the unconditional love one? What say ye?

The problem comes in with how people define unconditional love. Some people define it as: If you unconditionally love me, than anything I do is okay and acceptable and I will still get to be in God's presence.

[Amore Vero]

The problem comes in with how people define unconditional love. Some people define it as: If you unconditionally love me, than anything I do is okay and acceptable and I will still get to be in God's presence.

True, people often confuse 'love with blessings or rewards'. Just because Heavenly Father loves us no matter what we do, he still can't bless us with even his presence or other blessings, for all blessings are predicated upon obedience to certain laws, that even He must follow.

So he shows his love for us by continually trying to persuade us to be 'worthy' of these blessings & able to come back into his presence.

[Amore Vero]

does God with His unconditional love for all His children, can he love at a differnt level of intensity for the obedient vs the disobedient and the willfully disobedient?

I'm not sure about intensity, but I believe his children can bring Him more 'joy or more sorrow' depending on whether they are righteous or not.

I have also found that it seems very rare for people in the Church to really believe in having Christ's 'true unconditional love' today. Most everyone seems to believe in 'conditional love' these days, especially for their spouse.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

nan And Amore: What a love filled discussion we're having. I'm a person who really struggles with having unconditional love. Given this, I still KNOW that God unconditionally loves me. Does that sound strange?

[Amore Vero]

I'm a person who really struggles with having unconditional love. Given this, I still KNOW that God unconditionally loves me. Does that sound strange?

No, for believing in & striving for 'unconditional love' is one thing, possessing the full measure of this unconditional or 'perfect' love is another.

Joseph Smith said that completely possessing this 'perfect love' of which we speak, is the blessing & key for having our promise of Exaltation made sure & once possessed of it, we cannot be deceived by anyone.

"Until we have perfect love we are liable to fall; and when we have a testimony that our names are sealed in the Lamb's book of life, we have perfect love, and then it is impossible for false Christs to deceive us."
Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, p. 105.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Amore; If I undertsand correctly, the ONLY way to develop perfect love is when you have the 2nd Comforter seal you? I know 100% then that I lack perfect love. (

[Amore Vero]

Amore; If I undertsand correctly, the ONLY way to develop perfect love is when you have the 2nd Comforter seal you? I know 100% then that I lack perfect love. (

I do believe that gaining 'unconditional true everlasting love', especially for God & our spouse, & then all others, is the key to achieving our calling & election made sure & having this love become completely 'perfect'.

But if we possess 'Christ-like love' to the degree that we at least have the Holy Spirit as our guide, we are well on our way to this 'perfect love', which you probably are, with the way you strive to learn & grow & serve.

I think it's interesting that Christ said that it is only by 'love' that we can 'discern' who his true disciples are. Without this love we will be deceived to follow those who really arent' his true disciples.

Meaning I think, the pure love we possess allows us to see clearly if people are righteous or not & if they also have such love or not, which their fruits will prove it.

Joseph Smith also once said that we must gain more knowledge than the devil, if we want to not be deceived by him. The thing he knows nothing about is 'true unconditional everlasting love'. Those who don't possess it cannot understand it or beat it. For true love always wins in the end. It is the greatest power there is.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Amore: Chicken or egg dilemna? Can one only achieve the 2nd Comforter by already having pure love OR does true love come only after one has the 2nd Comforter? Perhaps some of both?

I want to thank you for the kind and loving dialogue we have. Some feel that asking thought questions somehow is wrong and even sneaky. Thers' a whole new thread on this. It might be ineteresting for you to post there given your kind manner.

[Amore Vero]

Amore: Chicken or egg dilemna? Can one only achieve the 2nd Comforter by already having pure love OR does true love come only after one has the 2nd Comforter? Perhaps some of both?

I believe that we can & must pray for & do our best to practice showing a higher & higher degree of this pure love, over maybe a period of years, 'before' we will receive the confirmation that our names are written in the Lamb's book of life & then such love will have become perfected in us.

Such love is an 'endowment' from heaven, as Elder Holland once said. For it is not possible for us to love so unconditionally without Heavenly Father's added gifts & revelation. But we can do it to a great measure even before our love becomes perfect.

I believe loving one's enemies is perhaps the fastest way to gain this perfect love & our calling & election made sure. If we can love & serve our enemies, starting with those closest to us in our family, who may not deserve our love or treat us right, it will perfect our soul & cause us to grow by leaps & bounds.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Amore, you're a true breath of fresh air. If you go to 60 posts thread and now the cliques thread, you'll fully understand why I say a breth of fresh Mormon air.

[sbsion]

Luke: Tell me a way to remove this thread and I will do so.

WHY?............it's so simple..............by the principles of intelligence that we manifest is our nature

[Original_Intent]

Amore, you're a true breath of fresh air. If you go to 60 posts thread and now the cliques thread, you'll fully understand why I say a breth of fresh Mormon air.

Welcome back, brother! You were sorely missed!