Holy Ghost: Good Feeling OR Intelligence, Light and Truth?

[creator]

I just came across a post by Denver Snuffer regarding the Holy Ghost. I will post some excerpts below and also link to the full post:

Guidance from the Spirit
I've been reflecting on a commonly held belief concerning the Holy Ghost. Among Latter-day Saints the assertion is widely believed that the Holy Ghost will always leave a "good feeling" as the evidence of a message coming from God. This is in contrast with Joseph Smith's correct description of the Holy Ghost as delivering "intelligence" or "sudden insight" or, to use scriptural language, "light and truth." The feelings which follow an authentic encounter with the Holy Ghost can be anything from fear and dread to joy and rejoicing. Our emotional reaction to the message can vary depending upon the information we've been given. But "feeling good" about something is separate from the Holy Ghost...

...The one thing I do know, and the truth I can proclaim is this: Truth will come through and confirm itself when measured against the standard of: 1) imparting truth and light, which is intelligence; and 2) whether the message leads to greater belief in, understanding of and testimony of Christ. These standards do not involve "feeling good." They do, however, involve enlightenment and edification. Even if the result of gaining more light is to see yourself in a new way, requiring repentance, confession of sin, re-baptism, breaking your heart and becoming contrite in spirit. Anyone who can teach a message which will pass this standard, whether they are high or low, rich or poor, great or obscure, has given something of value.

Link: http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... pirit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anyone know of the source of this "Joseph Smith's correct description of the Holy Ghost as delivering "intelligence" or "sudden insight""?

This definitely brings up more questions in my mind in regards to the holy ghost and how it is manifest in our lives.

I intend to do further personal research on this matter and wanted to get this discussion started as well.

[Original_Intent]

I do not know the source quote, Brian, but I have long "preached" against the "warm fuzzies" as I feel that Satan is expert in making us feel good. Thw burning in the bosom is indeed a wonderful and enjoyable manifestation of the Holy Ghost. I'd agree with Denver that depending on the truth that is being testified of it could bring lots of different emotions, although I question fear. Sorrow, yes, righteous anger yes, but fear...I don't believe so. I mean, I guess if it was testifying of my unrighteousness and need to repent, it could cause me to fear for my eternal salvation (or damnation) so maybe fear also.

I'd say the one common factor is the certitude that whatever is being testified of is true (or in the case of the stupor of thought, false).

[Samuel the Lamanite]

The following is the revelation I received while serving as a senior Institute Mission in Philly while preparing to answer the exact question that BrianM asks. And, I've expreinced that sudden rush of pure light as perhaps you''ll have done. Just in case, you haven't, the best I can describe it is that whereas your mind might have received an inch in diameter, now it is a mile in diameter. Pure intelligence. It's my understanding that when we put away this mortal tabernacle, the spirit will absorb lighht and knowdgele and unbelieverable speeds. It would have to because we are destined to be gods with all knowldge.

Now to what I've learned:

1. D+C 8 and 9. Threee things must occur simoultaneously: a. speak to yourr mind, b. spek to your heart and c. DWELL in your heart. C is hardly ever recognized as a requirement. It can dwell actually for days at a time or as short as a few minutes BUT it must dwell

2. The three above MUST be acommanied by several of the fruits of the spirit mentioned in Galatians 5. You see the three above can be copied by Satan but NOT any fruit of the spirit... NEVER

So, you can be certain that the HG has spoken to you when all the four criteria are present. The pure flow of intelligence has only come twice in my life... In both cases in the Temple.


I hope this helps?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Brent: At the time it was occuring, I was alone waiting as a patron in the Prayer room in the Nauvoo Temple. Normally I would have been serving as a worker but not that day because we didn't have enough patrons. The other time was the day of my baptism. I really didn't know what was happening but I do KNOW that the words that came out of my mouth were not mine. I was toonew to have known the words I spoke. Several people there said that my face shined as did Moses. I hope that I have many more expereinces and everyone here on the forum has at least one such experience. You will never be the same.

[Like]

“When you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.”
( Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 151.)

Joseph Smith - The first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge … (History of The Church, v. 3, p. 380)

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Like: That exactly describes the situation that happened to me. Have you ever tried to explain what the HG speaking to you is like to a person who hasn't ever experienced it? Multiple this cahllenge a 1000 times and we begin to understand the pure flow of intelligence. IMO, we will experience this constantly in the Celstial Kingdom. Almost a daily occurence. I can tell you this. The joy I expereinced was ???? I know that the D+C says when our spirit and resurrected body come together forever, we then experience a FULLNESS of Joy.

I just rememberd another experience with that pure flow of intelliegnce. It occured while I was sitting at my desk at IBM in White Plains, NY. I had been fasting for three days because I had to know who my future wife would be. I then heard a voice behind my left shoulder at the ceiling and then came pure flow of knowledge. I looked around and no one was there. I'm glad the door was closed because I began dancing literally around my desk with joy. They would have fired me on the spot.

Within two months of this event, I met my future wife and in six weeks time, we were sealed in the SLC Temple. We've now been married 42 years. Of course, we've had our ups and downs as most couples do. When its down, I dwell on that experience and the problems/disagreements dissolve.

[kgrigio]

“When you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas, so that by noticing it, you may find it fulfilled the same day or soon; (i.e.) those things that were presented unto your minds by the Spirit of God, will come to pass; and thus by learning the Spirit of God and understanding it, you may grow into the principle of revelation, until you become perfect in Christ Jesus.”
( Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 151.)

Joseph Smith - The first Comforter or Holy Ghost has no other effect than pure intelligence. It is more powerful in expanding the mind, enlightening the understanding, and storing the intellect with present knowledge … (History of The Church, v. 3, p. 380)

When I read the above quote from the Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith several years ago I had one of the sweetest spiritual experiences of my life because that quote describes almost perfectly how I receive inspiration and revelation. Up to that point in my life I had rarely received the "burning in the bosom" so often talked about and I wondered what was wrong with me. I did however frequently have "sudden strokes of ideas" and marveled at how things worked out after these ideas came. It wasn't until I read this quote that I finally understood from where the ideas sprang from. I always felt that I was being guided by the Lord, but didn't know really how to explain it compared to the conventional wisdom.

I find this type of inspiration comes for me a lot when in councils in the church when dealing with particularly hard matters where the path isn't clear and then all of a sudden thoughts of things to say, things to do, etc... start flowing freely. I love those times and feel very close to the Lord, but again, it usually isn't accompanied by the burning part, for me at least.

[Like]

Have you ever tried to explain what the HG speaking to you is like to a person who hasn't ever experienced it?

Yes, I have used these quotes when doing so. I also will open up the scriptures usually to the topical guide and go through the scriptures that describe the Holy Ghost if I am given a chance to.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

K: You've been truly blessed to have so many experiences.

[Ben McClintock]

Is this what you are looking for?

History of the Church, 3:381

if you don't have that set, hopefully this will encourage you to get it

[Amore Vero]

I believe the influence of the Holy Ghost is pure intelligence & also it is felt as the feelings of 'pure love'. Christlike love or Charity is the Spirit within us. Those who possess this love possess the companionship of the Holy Ghost & thus can receive pure intelligence as needed.

[mattctr]

I'd agree with Denver that depending on the truth that is being testified of it could bring lots of different emotions, although I question fear. Sorrow, yes, righteous anger yes, but fear...I don't believe so. I mean, I guess if it was testifying of my unrighteousness and need to repent, it could cause me to fear for my eternal salvation (or damnation) so maybe fear also.

I have felt feelings of "dread" that accompanied certain, direct, clear revelations, as they were direct trials of my faith. Dread, fear, sinking also accompanies certain moments when the veil is pulled back. Hindsight, the Lord always rewards faith.
Just my two cents...

[Tetraman]

Our consciousness consists of a constant stream of thoughts. I believe that every so often the HG drops a thought into that stream and most of us never know it. I think this has probably happened to everyone of God children at one time or another. We are all enticed to do good things. I think when we find out just how involved God has been in our lives, we will be amazed. We only tend to notice the "big things", and only when we are really in tune.

This is one way that God has poured out his spirit upon all flesh and how all the amazing technology we have today has come about. I don't give much credit to human kind for coming up with ideas on their own. Usually when we have an "ah hah!" moment, it's been after a long culmination of little things and we finally get it. Of course this does not preclude having gushers of inspiration, but those tend to be rare.

Of course Satan can also entice us to do that which is not right probably in much the same way. When we are full of anger or hatred or other strong negative emotions, we block out God and open our selves up to Satan.

[liberty2]

I have felt the Spirit in many different ways depending on the situation.

I do get warm fuzzies. Usually during particularly sincere testimony bearing.

I also get flashes of light, intelligence and truth. These have come on spiritual topics but have also come on diverse topics such as Organic chem (I would have failed without it ), principles of government and liberty, help in writing my thesis, and parenting.

I have also felt charity the pure love of Christ twice. Incredible.

I have also felt the dread. This was in the temple when I gave an offering and was told in my mind that my offering was not what the Lord wanted me to give. He wanted my will. I had some impressions about what that full commitment would require. I was overwhelmed with dread for a time. Comfort came shortly after.

I have also been chastized. As I prayed for a spiritual gift I was impressed that I could have the gift I wanted if I was more diligent in my prayers (not just roll in bed and say "Thanks for the day, Amen") I knew God was dissapointed and sad that I was keeping myself from blessings I wanted and that he wanted to grant. But I also felt such love.

There is not just one "right" way to feel the Spirit.

[bbrown]

I typed up a post of goodly length then it was lost! Guess that is the Lord's way of telling me to be more concise.

I understand why he is making the distinction (in the quote, I didn't read the entire article), likely because of a general lack of understanding of the spirit's role and how to identify it's presence, but I don't think the separation can truly be made. It isn't an either/or thing. One cannot really separate the emotional self from the logical self. Both are needed, must be mastered, and work together. They really are just parts of one whole, much like "spiritual knowledge" and "secular knowledge" cannot really be separated despite our constant efforts to do so. I think when one is influenced by the spirit there is usually a strong emotional response and presence. That isn't to say that emotion = being touched by the spirit or even that it is always a "good" feeling. We can have emotion without it being spiritual, but to try to say it isn't part of the equation at all just seems silly. One cannot have a mighty change of heart without feelings and the inability to be touched by the spirit is described in scripture as being "past feeling." My experience tells me that the truth most-frequently imparted durring priesthood blessings is that God loves us. That truth is accompanied by the "good feeling" of love.

C Brown

[Rand]

Brent, I will respond to your question or thought. I don't believe that the influence of the Spirit is anything other than the Virtues mentioned in the scriptures in Galatians, " 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance" or "faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, godliness, charity, humility, diligence." as mentioned in the DC section 4. We may experience Dread, or Fear, but these are not the fruits of the Spirit but our reaction to the challenge it has given us. A soon as we align ourselves with that divine attitude and prompting, the dread and fear dissipate and we will be filled with the expectant virtues.

So in essence, I am not in agreement with Denver's post.

[Rand]

Darn, I guess I have to agree with him then. Thanks for the correction. I misread his comment. Thanks.

[AshleyB]

I love this topic so much. It is after all one of the most important I have found. Learning to recognize the holy ghost and how it speaks to us is one of the most important things we have to learn in this life that helps us to return to the Father. And I have had many different kinds of experiences with communications. Some with the Holy Ghost. Some of which I believe came from Angels when I heard audible sounds or voices for brief moments and sometimes through dreams. But I am realizing there are lots of different ways we are communicated with on a regular basis and may even over look it if not practiced in noticing these things. I love the quote where he talks about pure intelligence or strokes of ideas being fulfilled. That has happened to me quite a few times. Once would be a few weeks ago when I was working on food storage. Then I started to think about a cousin of mine who I have talked a lot about food storage with and have encouraged her to get some. She's really receptive to all things Gospel oriented lately which is really exciting. Id love fore more people in my family to be converted. Anyway, I was thinking about her and I suddenly decided that I needed to have some food storage items shipped to her to start off her food storage because then she would be inspired to keep going and do more...then it occurred to me that she is not the type of person that would be comfortable with me just shipping her stuff like that for no reason so I thought oh no...I dont want to make her uncomfortable. But then the thought came that I should send her some and tell her that its for her birthday. That same day I decided I would call her and find out when her birthday was. I have a lot of cousins and dont know all their birthdays. Well later I called her and totally forgot about asking about her birthday but during our conversation she just happened to casually mention that, that it was her birthday that day. LOL. I was like really? Today is your birthday? haha. I have since sent her the stuff and she was really happy about it and has started to get some more things to add to it.

[Amore Vero]

We may experience Dread, or Fear, but these are not the fruits of the Spirit

I agree with you Rand. 'Perfect love' which is the Spirit within us, casteth out all fear.

We cannot possess the Holy Ghost & have fear or other such negative feelings at the same time. The Spirit always uplifts us & edifies us, even with warnings that don't cause fear but just an awakening to a need for action.

[LukeAir2008]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall eburn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me. D&C 9:8-9

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

There is no fear or doubt or stupor or anguish mentioned here. Those are not fruits or signs of the Holy Ghost.

[AshleyB]

ick thats pretty terrible that they would try to have them partake in cannibalism :ymsick:

[SpeedRacer]

I just came across a post by Denver Snuffer regarding the Holy Ghost. I will post some excerpts below and also link to the full post:

Guidance from the Spirit
I've been reflecting on a commonly held belief concerning the Holy Ghost. Among Latter-day Saints the assertion is widely believed that the Holy Ghost will always leave a "good feeling" as the evidence of a message coming from God. This is in contrast with Joseph Smith's correct description of the Holy Ghost as delivering "intelligence" or "sudden insight" or, to use scriptural language, "light and truth." The feelings which follow an authentic encounter with the Holy Ghost can be anything from fear and dread to joy and rejoicing. Our emotional reaction to the message can vary depending upon the information we've been given. But "feeling good" about something is separate from the Holy Ghost...

...The one thing I do know, and the truth I can proclaim is this: Truth will come through and confirm itself when measured against the standard of: 1) imparting truth and light, which is intelligence; and 2) whether the message leads to greater belief in, understanding of and testimony of Christ. These standards do not involve "feeling good." They do, however, involve enlightenment and edification. Even if the result of gaining more light is to see yourself in a new way, requiring repentance, confession of sin, re-baptism, breaking your heart and becoming contrite in spirit. Anyone who can teach a message which will pass this standard, whether they are high or low, rich or poor, great or obscure, has given something of value.

Link: http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/2011/ ... pirit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anyone know of the source of this "Joseph Smith's correct description of the Holy Ghost as delivering "intelligence" or "sudden insight""?

This definitely brings up more questions in my mind in regards to the holy ghost and how it is manifest in our lives.

I intend to do further personal research on this matter and wanted to get this discussion started as well.

It is funny, I never reviewed GC more than a once over in the Ensign in the past, but now I have them all in MP3 in my car and review them every couple of weeks during the commute. Elder Bednar went over this very topic in detail, and explained that there is no OR. The HG works in both ways, more often than not in a gradual feeling way, and less and less in the sudden flow of truth. I suggest you read the talk and seek to have the HG testify of its truth to you, as he revealed it to Elder Bednar.

I can personally attest to this as I have learned line by line, gradually with feelings moving me one way or another, but have also had very distinct flows of intelligence on rare occasion. Those sudden flows of intelligence are generally very sacred and only shared with a spouse or close family member as the spirit allows.

[Nan]

One way the holy ghost works with me is to get me to do something that I would not usually do. And I start doing it without thinking and then in my head I am going "what the heck am I doing?" For instance, when I was on a mission we were asked to go onto a commune and check on a less active member. My entire mission I introduced myself verbally as sister ____. We walked up the hill near the houses and a man asked who we were. (he was the guard) I showed him my name tag and said we wear this so people will know who we are and who we represent. As I was saying it I realized the man couldn't read. He let us on to the commune because he was to embarrassed to tell us he couldn't read. I don't know why we were supposed to be on that commune that day because the man we were to see was gone. We did talk to a couple other people. But it is the only time on my entire mission that I introduced myself that way and I did it without thinking. And he is the only man I met on my mission who couldn't read. (I went to a mission in the united states.)

[Amore Vero]

The HG works in both ways, more often than not in a gradual feeling way, and less and less in the sudden flow of truth.

I believe the goal is to get to the point where we have both the 'intense feeling of love & peace' & 'the flow of revelation & spiritual insights into our mind' continually throughout each day.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

What a wonderful dialogue here. I admit that I subscribe to the idea that the HG will NOT try to cause us fear but will always provide one or more of the Fruits of the Spirit in Galatiuans 5.

Let us all remember that according to Moroni 10, that with the right attitudes and earnest seeking, we may KNOW the TRUTH OF ALL THINGS. This is the foundation of the Missionary effort and the only way a person is truly converted.

When I'm close to the HG promptings, I don't worry about being led to sin and false ideas. I used this quite often during my 30 years as a University Business Professor. I always wanted to teach TRUTH but I'm sure I failed at times.