Open carry of firearm

[InfoWarrior82]

Maybe we should have 2nd Ammendment Day where eveyone open carries. The security open carry at my hospital. I guess we all are programmed to have anxiety to see anyone with a gun and no badge or uniform.

Maybe we all have seen too many westerns where people just have a showdown at the bar or in the street at the slightest provocation.

I think that's a great idea! A national open carry day (of course in states and cities where it is legal).

[Fairminded]

If more people carried like this don't you think the bad people would be less likely to do something stupid like muggings and robberies?

No. They would plan their attacks (i.e. ambush) better. Carry concealed and be the grey man instead. Having the CCW permit sends a stronger message of support for the right to keep and bear arms.

It depends on whether you consider criminals to be completely soulless monsters or humans making a mistake.

Open carry allows for de-escalation of the situation right from the get go, discouraging would be criminals from attempting a crime. With concealed carry you give them confidence to attempt something, at which point they're invested and usually feel there's no way out but to take the situation to the extreme. In other words hide your gun and there's a greater chance someone dies, while if you carry it openly there's a greater chance you'll be a target in a situation that's less likely to happen.

But even there you'll be an even greater target if you fail to use the surprise of a concealed weapon to your advantage and the criminal survives. The situation will have escalated from a standoff to a gunfight, and they'll be afraid of the same thing you are-that the other person is willing to use lethal force. Therefore the concealed weapon will INCREASE the chance of you getting shot.

[uglypitbull]

When you practice a law that infringes on the second ammendment you authorize the right to infringe. Either you carry anyway you want without permit. Or you say its ok to tell me how to exercise my rights with a concealed permit. The CCW is an exactly what we are against. You want freedom than deny the permit from the man that oppresses you

Amen, this is why all states should follow VT, AZ, and AK....and allow Constitutional Carry. No permits!!

I guess we all are programmed to have anxiety to see anyone with a gun and no badge or uniform.

This is exactly correct...and its been done by design over the years, and is not only taught in schools but in television programs.

[freedomforall]

Maybe we should have 2nd Ammendment Day where eveyone open carries. The security open carry at my hospital. I guess we all are programmed to have anxiety to see anyone with a gun and no badge or uniform.

Maybe we all have seen too many westerns where people just have a showdown at the bar or in the street at the slightest provocation.

I think that's a great idea! A national open carry day (of course in states and cities where it is legal).

How could police arrest 1000's of people open carrying a sidearm anywhere? The system would be overwhelmed.

Likewise, do we think that legislators would be able to pass illegal gun control laws if enough people swarmed their offices with letters, phone calls and personal visits? They get away with it because of apathy.

I'm thinking of open carrying in my state, which is legal.

[bobhenstra]

I prefer to carry concealed, I don't want the bad guy nor the busy body next to me to know I'm armed.

[InfoWarrior82]

I prefer to carry concealed, I don't want the bad guy nor the busy body next to me to know I'm armed.

I carry concealed... I simply just don't want the hassle of being harassed by ignorant people/police. But, I am looking into joining my state's/county's open carry group so that we can be in a large group carrying openly while at the same time increasing awareness in our communities that open carry should be a normal, everyday, sighting. This is probably the best way to do it. It will act sort of like a snowball effect until it catches on.

THE reason why open carriers get harassed by police is this: Cop- "We got a 911 call about a guy carrying a gun."

Here's a brilliant idea: Have mandatory training of all dispatchers to ask this question to all ignoramuses who call in seeing someone carrying openly.

Dispatcher- "Ma'am/Sir, is he/she carrying the gun in his/her hand or in a holster?"
Ignoramus- "It's in a holster."
Dispatcher- "Sir/Ma'am, it is completely legal to carry openly in the state of _____. Have a nice day."

PROBLEM SOLVED.

[freedomforall]

I prefer to carry concealed, I don't want the bad guy nor the busy body next to me to know I'm armed.

I'm with you only, for some people, in some cases, it would take too long to unzip a fanny pack and get the gun, as opposed to just reaching over and having the gun in a flash. For those using a shoulder holster...maybe not so difficult.

i haven't been able to decide whether carrying a gun is paranoid or wise, considering today's challenges. Is carrying a pride thing, a power thing...or a necessity?

[bobhenstra]

During Winter months I CC in my coat pocket, stashed in a pocket holster with a hole in the fabric where the barrel points out. In an emergency I'll simply fire my weapon while in my pocket. That's been my MO for years, but I don't get around much anymore, so I have a PDW in every room in my house. And my PU! Might put a hole in my nice leather jacket, but I'll wear it with pride!

[InfoWarrior82]

I prefer to carry concealed, I don't want the bad guy nor the busy body next to me to know I'm armed.

I'm with you only, for some people, in some cases, it would take too long to unzip a fanny pack and get the gun, as opposed to just reaching over and having the gun in a flash. For those using a shoulder holster...maybe not so difficult.

i haven't been able to decide whether carrying a gun is paranoid or wise, considering today's challenges. Is carrying a pride thing, a power thing...or a necessity?

Why wouldn't it be a necessity? Is protecting your life, your family's life, & other innocent people around you a necessity? The founding fathers thought it was a necessity. I'm going to go with... necessity.

[freedomforall]

I prefer to carry concealed, I don't want the bad guy nor the busy body next to me to know I'm armed.

I'm with you only, for some people, in some cases, it would take too long to unzip a fanny pack and get the gun, as opposed to just reaching over and having the gun in a flash. For those using a shoulder holster...maybe not so difficult.

i haven't been able to decide whether carrying a gun is paranoid or wise, considering today's challenges. Is carrying a pride thing, a power thing...or a necessity?

Why wouldn't it be a necessity? Is protecting your life, your family's life, & other innocent people around you a necessity? The founding fathers thought it was a necessity. I'm going to go with... necessity.

If a young, teenage son is told by his father that he, the son, would be protected from harm, accident and evil throughout his life if he lives right...should the son believe it enough so as to not by a gun for protection, or should the son not only buy, but wear a gun irregardless of the promise? Or is it a 50-50 deal?

[InfoWarrior82]

If a young, teenage son is told by his father that he, the son, would be protected from harm, accident and evil throughout his life if he lives right...should the son believe it enough so as to not by a gun for protection, or should the son not only buy, but wear a gun irregardless of the promise? Or is it a 50-50 deal?

That's a good question. It's more likely a 50-50 deal. Just like our garments. We are told we will be protected from harm so long as we are keeping the commandments. There are many examples in the scriptures where individuals and groups of people used weapons to defend themselves. Ammon, Nephi, Captain Moroni, etc. I think the Lord wants us to do everything in our power, with the tools at our disposal, to keep our lives safe from harm. (Seat belts, helmets, etc.). Why not a handgun in defense of someone trying to kill you?

[freedomforall]

If a young, teenage son is told by his father that he, the son, would be protected from harm, accident and evil throughout his life if he lives right...should the son believe it enough so as to not by a gun for protection, or should the son not only buy, but wear a gun irregardless of the promise? Or is it a 50-50 deal?

That's a good question. It's more likely a 50-50 deal. Just like our garments. We are told we will be protected from harm so long as we are keeping the commandments. There are many examples in the scriptures where individuals and groups of people used weapons to defend themselves. Ammon, Nephi, Captain Moroni, etc. I think the Lord wants us to do everything in our power, with the tools at our disposal, to keep our lives safe from harm. (Seat belts, helmets, etc.). Why not a handgun in defense of someone trying to kill you?

I ask because it boils down to a matter of trust. If the guy buys and wears a gun, does it show trust for that which was told him, as being true? Would the father figure his son doesn't trust his word? Would the father be absolved of his promise if the son wears a gun.
Or would the father be happy that the son sets out to help the father in his promise, and the father aids the son by giving the son extra strength and protection as a team or partnership?

[bobhenstra]

What was the reason Nephi made swords? Were the young men, his sons, trained in the proper use of swords? I suspect so!

[freedomforall]

What was the reason Nephi made swords? Were the young men, his sons, trained in the proper use of swords? I suspect so!

Why did all attempts to kill Samuel, The Lamanite with arrows fail? How and why did they all miss? Had he been told by God that he would be protected, or were all the shooters bad shots?

Had Nephi received the same promise?

[InfoWarrior82]

What was the reason Nephi made swords? Were the young men, his sons, trained in the proper use of swords? I suspect so!

Why did all attempts to kill Samuel, The Lamanite with arrows fail? How and why did they all miss? Had he been told by God that he would be protected, or were all the shooters bad shots?

Had Nephi received the same promise?

Prophets cannot be killed until they complete their mission. We aren't prophets. Heck, even Joseph Smith Jr. carried a gun... and even used it in the short gun fight before he was shot and killed.

[bobhenstra]

Nephi might have had the same promise, the scripture isn't clear on that, but the people Nephi was sworn to protect because he was their leader obviously did not have that promise. I know that me and mine do not have that promise, and was it the Lord or Satan who inspired the inclusion of the Second Amendment in our Constitution?

The Sons of Helaman (son's of converted Lamanites) were trained and went into battle, killed many wicked Lamanites even while under the promise they themselves would be protected. So it's very clear, even to my small intellect, that having the promise may also require the use of self defense tactics, even to the killing the wicked!

Bob

[TZONE]

If a man was sick would he get a blessing or just take the medication that was given him of God? Or trust God will Heal us when he has already given us the means to do so. I think either way if the promise is there we will be protected either via the spirit telling us not to go somewhere or some other way. I would want to look at it as showing the Lord "I am willing to do everything I am able to do" and leave the rest up to you.

[freedomforall]

If a man was sick would he get a blessing or just take the medication that was given him of God? Or trust God will Heal us when he has already given us the means to do so. I think either way if the promise is there we will be protected either via the spirit telling us not to go somewhere or some other way. I would want to look at it as showing the Lord "I am willing to do everything I am able to do" and leave the rest up to you.

I suppose one way to look at is this. Even though one person may have the gift of protection, that doesn't mean one should not carry a gun because it may be required to save someone else's life.

I don't understand why when a person obtains a certain blessing...there are no boundaries given, limitations or explanation spoken of in how, when or with whom it is to be used.

Either way, if it were me I guess I would have to start packing just in case.

[JerL]

There is always the option of open carry, and stopping the commission of a crime before it is ever committed. Protection by a show of willingness to use force if necessary. Now the last thing on my list is to shoot someone, but it's on the list.

[Tribunal]

For many years I have held the belief that more people ought to openly carry a firearm. Most especially bank tellers, and convenience store clerks. They would be the most benefited by doing so, in my opinion. Until recently I didn't have a firearm that I could fit in my pocket. Earlier this year I finally had the chance to exercise the right to openly carry a firearm. Before I decided to try it though I figured that I had better research the laws regarding firearms. I came across the website http://opencarry.org/. I found it to be very informative, but not in the way you might think.

Interesting!

Things I learned:
(I live in Utah so some things may be state specific.)

1. Laws only restrict. I was looking for the law that allowed for the open carry of a firearm and could not find it. It was mentioned that if some thing is not specifically outlawed, it is then by default legal.

This goes without saying. Some laws are vague enough that anyone can become criminal by default. If a LEO watches a person long enough he can observe any number of violations of 'some' law.

2. I learned that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. Various experiences with law officers were recounted in which those who were open carrying were within the law, while the officers were adamant about what they were doing was illegal. So now when I hear that some one asked the police and they said I take it with a grain of salt.

You are totally correct that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. LEOs only know what they are trained to do for liability reasons, not to be good and effective public servants. Although LEOs are called public servants, they don't work for the public, they work for the government (agency) that hired them.

3. I learned that I don't need to present ID when asked. Only name and address.

I honestly don't know why a LEO would ask for your ID unless you were violating the law or you called on the police to file a complaint.

4. I learned the difference between being "detained" and having a chat with an officer.

This is good information for any person to know. Everyone should have a clear understanding of their rights.

5. I went through the threads and watched as laws were changed (for the better).

Could you list some examples of laws that were changed for the better?

6. I watched as people were able to change minds and attitudes of others in a positive way by interacting with and educating them.

Good!

7. When they were asked to cover up or leave, they took action by contacting the management to find out what policy was or if it was an employee was enforcing their opinion.

This is also good!

Finally I learned that rights need to be stood up for especially the less popular ones.

Wish there were more people willing to stand up for their rights. One of the sad facts that I've learned from a law enforcement perspective is "those who do not know their rights have no rights". They can be easily manipulated or abused.

I have enjoyed the right to open carry, feeling safer and better able to defend myself and my family.

...and as a law enforcement officer I enjoy your right to open carry, and I actually feel safer knowing fellow citizens are able and willing to defend their person and their family.

I personally prefer that people conceal carry but I would never challenge your right to open carry. In my opinion if everyone conceal carried then the bad people wouldn't know who did or didn't have a weapon. I also recommend that everyone take a conceal carry course. This class is very informative.

[freedomforall]

For many years I have held the belief that more people ought to openly carry a firearm. Most especially bank tellers, and convenience store clerks. They would be the most benefited by doing so, in my opinion. Until recently I didn't have a firearm that I could fit in my pocket. Earlier this year I finally had the chance to exercise the right to openly carry a firearm. Before I decided to try it though I figured that I had better research the laws regarding firearms. I came across the website http://opencarry.org/. I found it to be very informative, but not in the way you might think.

Interesting!

Things I learned:
(I live in Utah so some things may be state specific.)

1. Laws only restrict. I was looking for the law that allowed for the open carry of a firearm and could not find it. It was mentioned that if some thing is not specifically outlawed, it is then by default legal.

This goes without saying. Some laws are vague enough that anyone can become criminal by default. If a LEO watches a person long enough he can observe any number of violations of 'some' law.

2. I learned that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. Various experiences with law officers were recounted in which those who were open carrying were within the law, while the officers were adamant about what they were doing was illegal. So now when I hear that some one asked the police and they said I take it with a grain of salt.

You are totally correct that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. LEOs only know what they are trained to do for liability reasons, not to be good and effective public servants. Although LEOs are called public servants, they don't work for the public, they work for the government (agency) that hired them.

3. I learned that I don't need to present ID when asked. Only name and address.

I honestly don't know why a LEO would ask for your ID unless you were violating the law or you called on the police to file a complaint.

4. I learned the difference between being "detained" and having a chat with an officer.

This is good information for any person to know. Everyone should have a clear understanding of their rights.

5. I went through the threads and watched as laws were changed (for the better).

Could you list some examples of laws that were changed for the better?

6. I watched as people were able to change minds and attitudes of others in a positive way by interacting with and educating them.

Good!

7. When they were asked to cover up or leave, they took action by contacting the management to find out what policy was or if it was an employee was enforcing their opinion.

This is also good!

Finally I learned that rights need to be stood up for especially the less popular ones.

Wish there were more people willing to stand up for their rights. One of the sad facts that I've learned from a law enforcement perspective is "those who do not know their rights have no rights". They can be easily manipulated or abused.

I have enjoyed the right to open carry, feeling safer and better able to defend myself and my family.

...and as a law enforcement officer I enjoy your right to open carry, and I actually feel safer knowing fellow citizens are able and willing to defend their person and their family.

I personally prefer that people conceal carry but I would never challenge your right to open carry. In my opinion if everyone conceal carried then the bad people wouldn't know who did or didn't have a weapon. I also recommend that everyone take a conceal carry course. This class is very informative.

Now days, how do we stand up for our rights when detained without due process? How do we treat not having the opportunity of legal counsel? How do we get out of being treated as a terrorist because of so many twisted laws and new ones that hamper our freedom?
I have a card that I can give to an officer if I feel I am being detained for any reason beyond what I feel is reasonable. It reads:

This person is a member of the Legal Shield program and has 24-hour telephone access to legal representation by a law firm provided by Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc. (NOW LEGAL SHIELD)
To any law enforcement officer or security personnel "If it is your intention to question, detain or arrest me, please allow me to call an attorney immediately."

[freedomforall]

A word to the wise. When a person applies for a CCW their personal history and mental competency is then up for review.

[JerL]

Tribunal wrote:

5. I went through the threads and watched as laws were changed (for the better).

Could you list some examples of laws that were changed for the better?

I remember the days when we could carry a side arm no big deal, have a gun rack in the truck with guns actually in it. I'm pretty sure I remember a few trucks like that at my high school. I didn't even bat an eye at those. Now this thread was started nearly 2 years ago and at that time the pendulum of gun law seemed to be swinging towards freedom around gun laws. I was mainly referring to changes concerning carry in a car in Utah. It had gone from needing to be visible and I don't think it could be loaded without a permit. Now I can have a hand gun concealed, visible, loaded, or not, in my car, or someone elses (with their permission) with or with out a permit. Also Utah has a law against the confiscation of gun during an emergency, because of what happened in the aftermath of Katrina.

Tribunal wrote:

I personally prefer that people conceal carry but I would never challenge your right to open carry. In my opinion if everyone conceal carried then the bad people wouldn't know who did or didn't have a weapon. I also recommend that everyone take a conceal carry course. This class is very informative.

I'm glad you respect my right to carry as I prefer. I also agree that those that feel comfortable should take a conceal carry course and carry how they prefer, making it safer for as a whole.