Open carry of firearm

[JerL]

For many years I have held the belief that more people ought to openly carry a firearm. Most especially bank tellers, and convenience store clerks. They would be the most benefited by doing so, in my opinion. Until recently I didn't have a firearm that I could fit in my pocket. Earlier this year I finally had the chance to exercise the right to openly carry a firearm. Before I decided to try it though I figured that I had better research the laws regarding firearms. I came across the website http://opencarry.org/. I found it to be very informative, but not in the way you might think.

Things I learned:
(I live in Utah so some things may be state specific.)

1. Laws only restrict. I was looking for the law that allowed for the open carry of a firearm and could not find it. It was mentioned that if some thing is not specifically outlawed, it is then by default legal.
2. I learned that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. Various experiences with law officers were recounted in which those who were open carrying were within the law, while the officers were adamant about what they were doing was illegal. So now when I hear that some one asked the police and they said I take it with a grain of salt.
3. I learned that I don't need to present ID when asked. Only name and address.
4. I learned the difference between being "detained" and having a chat with an officer.
5. I went through the threads and watched as laws were changed (for the better).
6. I watched as people were able to change minds and attitudes of others in a positive way by interacting with and educating them.
7. When they were asked to cover up or leave, they took action by contacting the management to find out what policy was or if it was an employee was enforcing their opinion.

Finally I learned that rights need to be stood up for especially the less popular ones.

I have enjoyed the right to open carry, feeling safer and better able to defend myself and my family.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Most important here is knowing how to safely use the gun and have great accuracy if ever needed. I lack the latter.

[mirkwood]

If I were the bad guy, with intent to do harm, the open carrier is the first person I would take out. Now I have two guns. Something to think about.

[wiser2]

Those who have read the Bill of Rights should be aware that people, in the US, have a federal permit to "keep and bear" arms, including guns and missiles. Federal law requires that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It claims/implies that there needs to be an active, drilled, armed force controlled independent of the government if we want to have a free/reasonable government.

Our choice not to have that armed force to threaten the government to stay legal is likely why we are not very free today.

[Tribunal]

For many years I have held the belief that more people ought to openly carry a firearm. Most especially bank tellers, and convenience store clerks. They would be the most benefited by doing so, in my opinion. Until recently I didn't have a firearm that I could fit in my pocket. Earlier this year I finally had the chance to exercise the right to openly carry a firearm. Before I decided to try it though I figured that I had better research the laws regarding firearms. I came across the website http://opencarry.org/. I found it to be very informative, but not in the way you might think.

Things I learned:
(I live in Utah so some things may be state specific.)

1. Laws only restrict. I was looking for the law that allowed for the open carry of a firearm and could not find it. It was mentioned that if some thing is not specifically outlawed, it is then by default legal.
2. I learned that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. Various experiences with law officers were recounted in which those who were open carrying were within the law, while the officers were adamant about what they were doing was illegal. So now when I hear that some one asked the police and they said I take it with a grain of salt.
3. I learned that I don't need to present ID when asked. Only name and address.
4. I learned the difference between being "detained" and having a chat with an officer.
5. I went through the threads and watched as laws were changed (for the better).
6. I watched as people were able to change minds and attitudes of others in a positive way by interacting with and educating them.
7. When they were asked to cover up or leave, they took action by contacting the management to find out what policy was or if it was an employee was enforcing their opinion.

Finally I learned that rights need to be stood up for especially the less popular ones.

I have enjoyed the right to open carry, feeling safer and better able to defend myself and my family.

You learned the seven points from the link you provided?

I wish more people would open carry. Our neighborhoods would be much safer!

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Frankly, I don't want a return to the wild west. I do advocate fairly lenient ability to get a concelled permit. That way a criminal will be at risk because he/she never knows who has a weapon ready to respond.

[Tribunal]

Frankly, I don't want a return to the wild west. I do advocate fairly lenient ability to get a concelled permit. That way a criminal will be at risk because he/she never knows who has a weapon ready to respond.

I agree with you Samuel but it is nice to see someone walking around with a pistol at their hip. If more people carried like this don't you think the bad people would be less likely to do something stupid like muggings and robberies?

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Tribunal: behavior is best shaped by varaible reinforcment techniques. Not knowing who has a gun allows those who don't wish to carry to know that criminal doesn't KNOW. Sorry to get technical with behavioral ppsychology.

[Tribunal]

Tribunal: behavior is best shaped by varaible reinforcment techniques. Not knowing who has a gun allows those who don't wish to carry to know that criminal doesn't KNOW. Sorry to get technical with behavioral ppsychology.

I agree with you!

[mes5464]

For many years I have held the belief that more people ought to openly carry a firearm. Most especially bank tellers, and convenience store clerks. They would be the most benefited by doing so, in my opinion. Until recently I didn't have a firearm that I could fit in my pocket. Earlier this year I finally had the chance to exercise the right to openly carry a firearm. Before I decided to try it though I figured that I had better research the laws regarding firearms. I came across the website http://opencarry.org/. I found it to be very informative, but not in the way you might think.

Things I learned:
(I live in Utah so some things may be state specific.)

1. Laws only restrict. I was looking for the law that allowed for the open carry of a firearm and could not find it. It was mentioned that if some thing is not specifically outlawed, it is then by default legal.
2. I learned that "law enforcement officers" don't always know the law. Various experiences with law officers were recounted in which those who were open carrying were within the law, while the officers were adamant about what they were doing was illegal. So now when I hear that some one asked the police and they said I take it with a grain of salt.
3. I learned that I don't need to present ID when asked. Only name and address.
4. I learned the difference between being "detained" and having a chat with an officer.
5. I went through the threads and watched as laws were changed (for the better).
6. I watched as people were able to change minds and attitudes of others in a positive way by interacting with and educating them.
7. When they were asked to cover up or leave, they took action by contacting the management to find out what policy was or if it was an employee was enforcing their opinion.

Finally I learned that rights need to be stood up for especially the less popular ones.

I have enjoyed the right to open carry, feeling safer and better able to defend myself and my family.

Thank you for this. I also wish more people carried openly.

[mes5464]

Frankly, I don't want a return to the wild west. I do advocate fairly lenient ability to get a concelled permit. That way a criminal will be at risk because he/she never knows who has a weapon ready to respond.

I believe we must follow all of the Lord's council. How can we effectively follow the council below if we are not prepared to do so? Carrying a firearm is just being a good Scout. Be prepared.

Alma 48
14 Now the Nephites were taught to defend themselves against their enemies, even to the shedding of blood if it were necessary; yea, and they were also taught never to give an offense, yea, and never to raise the sword except it were against an enemy, except it were to preserve their lives.

[mirkwood]

If more people carried like this don't you think the bad people would be less likely to do something stupid like muggings and robberies?

No. They would plan their attacks (i.e. ambush) better. Carry concealed and be the grey man instead. Having the CCW permit sends a stronger message of support for the right to keep and bear arms.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Mirkwood: You have a good sense of warfare against crime. Yes, with open carrying you give ways for criminals to better prepare.

[Henmasher]

If more people carried like this don't you think the bad people would be less likely to do something stupid like muggings and robberies?

No. They would plan their attacks (i.e. ambush) better. Carry concealed and be the grey man instead. Having the CCW permit sends a stronger message of support for the right to keep and bear arms.

I have to disagree. When you practice a law that infringes on the second ammendment you authorize the right to infringe. Either you carry anyway you want without permit. Or you say its ok to tell me how to exercise my rights with a concealed permit. The CCW is an exactly what we are against. You want freedom than deny the permit from the man that oppresses you :ymparty:

PS. they would not plan their attacks better either. They would just not enter a grocery store where everybody had a gun :-ss

[Samuel the Lamanite]

We will have to just agree to disagree.

[JerL]

If I were the bad guy, with intent to do harm, the open carrier is the first person I would take out. Now I have two guns. Something to think about.

This is a straw-man argument, most criminals are gutless, and only a few are ruthless. With the ruthless it won't matter if you are armed or not, except that the unarmed won't be able to fight back. Most criminals would prefer to go somewhere else than have a life or death confrontation. Also the chances of my being spotted before a robbery or shooting occurs is no greater than any other. If you think about the Trolley Square shooting awhile back, the probability of being where the shooter was, was slim.

Open carry is a deterrent, and my preferred method of carry.

[Samuel the Lamanite]

Jerl: For what's its worth, I would support open arms laws but watch clsoely what happened.

[fps.sledge]

I agree that exercising your right to carry is fine. I also don't have any problem with anyone carrying, despite the attention they get.

Although the sad reality of my understanding and experiences with the legal system have taught me that exercising this right is more dangerous than you might think. While it may save your life in the event that a crime may occur, it will also increase the likelihood the legal system attacks. All it takes is one incident for the system to belief you were a danger and sentence you to prison.

In other words, I have every reason to fear the government at this point in time than I do criminals on the street.

Think you can handle the consequences? Prepare yourself with these potential scenarios on top of the original post.

-Do you know how the judicial system works?
-Would you know how to file a legal action in court?
-Are you confident you could get the media to report in your favor?
-Do you have the money to fund a legal defense and/or offense?
-Will your family be provided for during this time of being in prison for a certain allegation

I don't remember the mans name (I believe he was from Florida), who sold barrel adapters for a 2-liter soda bottle. The gov't charged this man with selling silencers without proper authorization. The adapter itself, never fell under the legal definition of a silencer. These allegations were so ridiculous, he eventually won the trail against him, after a couple of million dollars and going out of business.

Think about the reality of the world we live in.

[mirkwood]

This is a straw-man argument, most criminals are gutless, and only a few are ruthless.

No, it is not. There are sufficient numbers of them that are predators and will take you on under any circumstance. This is not speculation on my part, but is based on real world experience.

[SpeedRacer]

Here in VA, there is a part of the state constitution that prohibits a law from being passed that restricts open-carry.

There is also a law that allows businesses the right to refuse service to anyone, and therefore make rules when visiting their businesses that you cannot open carry. There are also federal laws about schools and federal parks that supersede this.

[JerL]

fps.sledge I would urge you to read though the experiences on the Utah open carry forum. I started at the very first one and read though nearly every one of them. I am thoroughly familiar with gun law here in Utah. There are many experiences where people who were open carrying were detained and investigated. That is why I say that one of the things I learned is that cops don't always know the law. I wanted to be absolutely sure that I understood it, so as not to get myself in trouble. No one on the forum has gone to jail for open carrying. There were a few times that charges were filed, but were later dropped.

Samuel the Lamanite, from the research I have done and the experiences I have read, open carry does not leave you more vulnerable. It does deter crime, and desensitizes people from the fear of guns. I have been surprised at how many people don't even realize that I am openly carrying. I don't want to get into a big debate about open carry vs. concealed because I believe that it has been beat to death on other forums. I will provide a coulpe of links if you would like to read up on it.

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forum.php
http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com/

I know open carry is not politically correct, and unpopular, and seen as brazen by a few, perhaps even dangerous, but it is my preferred method of carry.

[mes5464]

What I take away from the verses below is this:
1) The people routinely armed themselves.
2) They were justified by Heavenly Father for defending themselves.
3) One needs to be prepared to defend them self.

Alma 1:9 Now, because Gideon withstood him with the words of God he was wroth with Gideon, and drew his sword and began to smite him. Now Gideon being stricken with many years, therefore he was not able to withstand his blows, therefore he was slain by the sword.

Alma 17:37 But behold, every man that lifted his club to smite Ammon, he smote off their arms with his sword; for he did withstand their blows by smiting their arms with the edge of his sword, insomuch that they began to be astonished, and began to flee before him; yea, and they were not few in number; and he caused them to flee by the strength of his arm.

Alma 20:20 And he stretched forth his hand to slay Ammon. But Ammon withstood his blows, and also smote his arm that he could not use it.

[Galticus]

I know open carry is not politically correct, and unpopular, and seen as brazen by a few, perhaps even dangerous, but it is my preferred method of carry.

Amen!

[InfoWarrior82]

More people need to open carry. Send the message to ignorant citizens & cops that it's legal and an exercise of a civil right.

[davedan]

Maybe we should have 2nd Ammendment Day where eveyone open carries. The security open carry at my hospital. I guess we all are programmed to have anxiety to see anyone with a gun and no badge or uniform.

Maybe we all have seen too many westerns where people just have a showdown at the bar or in the street at the slightest provocation.