Ron Paul runs - Ron Paul Wins!

[LoveIsTruth]

Thank you for the information on Jefferson's feelings about paper money and private banking....much appreciated. So he was against paper and private banking.

Jefferson was against GOVERNMENT FORCED MONOPOLIES, especially in banking. He was NOT against private banking per say!

Great....as you point out with those three great men above....all were for PM money....that is PM government money.

Not necessarily. They were for PM money, whether government or otherwise. That is the beauty of PM money: it DOES NOT NEED GOVERNMENT FORCE to operate, because of its INTRINSIC VALUE, i.e. value INDEPENDENT of the government (or absence of it) or of the whims of politicians and banksters. Joseph Smith and Thomas Jefferson, and Ezra T. Benson said as much! (And you are twisting their words again!)

I have no argument with that. What I am against is the destruction of government and the people that will shortly follow as their last remaining tool is removed.

Destruction of a corrupt and wicked government and replacing it with respect for private property and law of JUSTICE and peace is a good thing. That's what the Founders taught us. Read it for yourself. It is in declaration of Independence, and in many other places. It is the government now that is destroying the people. And the people will be destroyed if they do not wake up to it!

[Jason]

People are ignorant to the true costs of shopping at Walmart....and the reality is most of them are so selfishly short-term oriented...they don't care.

Government monopoly??? Are you saying the franchise to vote doesn't exist???

Agree to disagree with your New York minute....please look up the history of Private military companies (PMCs)/ Private Security Companies (PSCs) like DynCorp - now owned by Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), Blackwater/Xe/Academi, Halliburton, L3 via subsidiary MPRI, BAE Systems - part owned by Carlyle Group which was/is Bush & Bin Laden investment firm, Vinnell - now owned by Northrop but before that by TRW Systems and before that by the Carlyle Group, Executive Outcomes part of the South African-based holding company Strategic Resource Corporation, Sandline International and Rubicon International Services now part of Aegis Defence Services....this might be useful to your education -
The Whistleblower: Sex Trafficking, Military Contractors, and One Woman's Fight for Justice
http://www.amazon.com/Whistleblower-Tra ... 0230108024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What's not hypocritical about your hypothesis'??? Its all pie in the sky that sounds nice....until you try to apply it. Then you end up turning things over to the bankers which is what Ron Paul is all about. Which shouldn't be a shock considering where the funding for the rhetoric and education came from....

Agree to disagree on MBS, derivatives, and other financial instruments. Obviously you aren't up to speed on it....

Anyways the whole rest of this conversation borders on the ridiculous....none of your theories have ever been implemented successfully. Banker funded nonsense...you speak of things like voluntary (you have a voluntary right to vote and have your say)...but because the consensus doesn't go your way (wicked majority) then suddenly people are holding guns to your head keeping you from moving and seeking out new political unifications (and tax systems and everything else that goes with a political unification).

Your arguments are case in point for demonstrating your lack of understanding of government and what it means....fundamentally you are an anarchist.....more power to you....and hopefully you will find your place in the world where ever that may be....

[Jason]

Thank you for the information on Jefferson's feelings about paper money and private banking....much appreciated. So he was against paper and private banking.

Jefferson was against GOVERNMENT FORCED MONOPOLIES, especially in banking. He was NOT against private banking per say!

Great....as you point out with those three great men above....all were for PM money....that is PM government money.

Not necessarily. They were for PM money, whether government or otherwise. That is the beauty of PM money: it DOES NOT NEED GOVERNMENT FORCE to operate, because of its INTRINSIC VALUE, i.e. value INDEPENDENT of the government (or absence of it) or of the whims of politicians and banksters. Joseph Smith and Thomas Jefferson, and Ezra T. Benson said as much! (And you are twisting their words again!)

I have no argument with that. What I am against is the destruction of government and the people that will shortly follow as their last remaining tool is removed.

Destruction of a corrupt and wicked government and replacing it with respect for private property and law of JUSTICE and peace is a good thing. That's what the Founders taught us. Read it for yourself. It is in declaration of Independence, and in many other places. It is the government now that is destroying the people. And the people will be destroyed if they do not wake up to it!

Well this is where we fundamentally disagree.....the people are destroying themselves...government (political entanglements of the people) involvement is just a symptom!!! Also demonstrates your complete lack of understanding of what government means and how it works (beyond pie in the sky abstract thoughts)....

[LoveIsTruth]

...you speak of things like voluntary (you have a voluntary right to vote and have your say)...but because the consensus doesn't go your way (wicked majority) then suddenly people are holding guns to your head

Majority has no right to vote on private property of anyone. Private Property is NOT subject to the vote of a majority, mister collectivist and self-proclaimed statist who says we need a police state (your words) and forget the free market. You should be ashamed of yourself because you are teaching the doctrines of tyrants and mass murderers (just a historical fact: Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc. all believed as you do, and taught the same doctrine.)

You have no idea what Liberty is. You are clueless, therefore you cannot defend it because the moment you win you will institute another "benevolent" dictatorship. Hell is full of the rulers of your type. Welcome to the party of the damned. (2 Nephi 24:9) Sad, but true. Welcome. Sad, indeed!

But the truth speaks for itself, and you can prevail against it no more than you can prevail against God!

He who has ears to hear let him hear.

[Jason]

...you speak of things like voluntary (you have a voluntary right to vote and have your say)...but because the consensus doesn't go your way (wicked majority) then suddenly people are holding guns to your head

Majority has no right to vote on private property of anyone. Private Property is NOT subject to the vote of a majority, mister collectivist and self-proclaimed statist who says we need a police state (your words) and forget the free market. You should be ashamed of yourself because you are teaching the doctrines of tyrants and mass murderers (just a historical fact: Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc. all believed as you do, and taught the same doctrine.)

You have no idea what Liberty is. You are clueless, therefore you cannot defend it because the moment you win you will institute another "benevolent" dictatorship. Hell is full of the rulers of your type. Welcome to the party of the damned. (2 Nephi 24:9) Sad, but true. Welcome. Sad, indeed!

But the truth speaks for itself, and you can prevail against it no more than you can prevail against God!

He who has ears to hear let him hear.

LOL...is that why The Cato Institute is one of the largest think tanks in Washinton DC????

....a think tank that is governed by four people, each with a 25 percent stake in the organization....a stake that can be bought and sold for cash...that espouses free-market economics and limited government????

...ever look into who founded (paid for) your libertarian philosophy??? any coincidences with the same folks who funded those guys you mention above (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc)????

[moonwhim]

...ever look into who founded (paid for) your libertarian philosophy??? any coincidences with the same folks who funded those guys you mention above (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc)????

Your info dumps still don't prove that Ron Paul is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan that you have asserted. Let's see your white paper with the proper scholarship and evidence to prove your points.

[Jason]

...ever look into who founded (paid for) your libertarian philosophy??? any coincidences with the same folks who funded those guys you mention above (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc)????

Your info dumps still don't prove that Ron Paul is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan that you have asserted. Let's see your white paper with the proper scholarship and evidence to prove your points.

You first with one proving he isn't....lead by example!!!

[moonwhim]

...ever look into who founded (paid for) your libertarian philosophy??? any coincidences with the same folks who funded those guys you mention above (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc)????

Your info dumps still don't prove that Ron Paul is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan that you have asserted. Let's see your white paper with the proper scholarship and evidence to prove your points.

You first with one proving he isn't....lead by example!!!

You've got to be kidding me Jason, your response above is one of the oldest tricks and distractions in the book! You are responsible for proving your assertions.

[Jason]

Your info dumps still don't prove that Ron Paul is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan that you have asserted. Let's see your white paper with the proper scholarship and evidence to prove your points.

You first with one proving he isn't....lead by example!!!

You've got to be kidding me Jason, your response above is one of the oldest tricks and distractions in the book! You are responsible for proving your assertions.

I've posted plenty of evidence for those will to take the time to go through it (information dumps aren't really information dumps if one doesn't read through it)....no trick here (or kidding)...just lack of patience! As well as some curiosity as to what you could come up with....since all I've ever seen you produce is cut n' paste Alex Jones articles...

[moonwhim]

I've posted plenty of evidence for those will to take the time to go through it (information dumps aren't really information dumps if one doesn't read through it)....no trick here (or kidding)...just lack of patience! As well as some curiosity as to what you could come up with....since all I've ever seen you produce is cut n' paste Alex Jones articles...

Again, Jason, it is not my responsibility to prove that Ron Paul is not controlled by the NWO and is not a tool of satan.....you made the assertion that he is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan.......if your "lack of patience" is the only excuse you can up with then maybe you don't have the evidence to prove your assertions, or you don't care if you back up your info dumps with a focused paper so that all can see and judge your evidence.

[LoveIsTruth]

LOL...is that why The Cato Institute is one of the largest think tanks in Washinton DC????

....a think tank that is governed by four people, each with a 25 percent stake in the organization....a stake that can be bought and sold for cash...that espouses free-market economics and limited government????

...ever look into who founded (paid for) your libertarian philosophy??? any coincidences with the same folks who funded those guys you mention above (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc)????

My proof is The Fundamental Principles of Liberty. You CANNOT disprove them anymore than you can unseat God. They are Eternal as God himself. Ron Paul squares with these principles almost perfectly. That is my proof. Not who paid what. Truth is truth not matter the source. Brigham Young said: There is truth even in hell, and a lot of it. In fact, Truth from hell is just as true as truth from heaven, only heaven has more of it. We are duty bound to accept true principles no matter where they come from. So grow up, "Jason!" What Ron Paul and Mises.org teach is almost entirely truth (at least what I have seen so far as it pertains to principles of Liberty). If you don't like the source, argue this with Brigham Young, it is still the truth no matter where it comes from.

The problem with you is that you are not guided by principles but by names. That is your weakness. You will be forever blind if you go that way. Principles tramp names of imperfect men. Principles are eternal. True Principles of Liberty are from God. That is my only authority (not your list of names). So get over it. Truth speaks for itself.

[Jason]

I've posted plenty of evidence for those will to take the time to go through it (information dumps aren't really information dumps if one doesn't read through it)....no trick here (or kidding)...just lack of patience! As well as some curiosity as to what you could come up with....since all I've ever seen you produce is cut n' paste Alex Jones articles...

Again, Jason, it is not my responsibility to prove that Ron Paul is not controlled by the NWO and is not a tool of satan.....you made the assertion that he is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan.......if your "lack of patience" is the only excuse you can up with then maybe you don't have the evidence to prove your assertions, or you don't care if you back up your info dumps with a focused paper so that all can see and judge your evidence.

LOL...you are making the assertion that he isn't.

I've already told you my stance. Until I see you put something forward...I'm not going to the work and effort just to please you when you can't take the time to utilize what I've already provided at a significant cost of time.

[Jason]

LOL...is that why The Cato Institute is one of the largest think tanks in Washinton DC????

....a think tank that is governed by four people, each with a 25 percent stake in the organization....a stake that can be bought and sold for cash...that espouses free-market economics and limited government????

...ever look into who founded (paid for) your libertarian philosophy??? any coincidences with the same folks who funded those guys you mention above (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, etc)????

My proof is The Fundamental Principles of Liberty. You CANNOT disprove them anymore than you can unseat God. They are Eternal as God himself. Ron Paul squares with these principles almost perfectly. That is my proof. Not who paid what. Truth is truth not matter the source. Brigham Young said: There is truth even in hell, and a lot of it. In fact, Truth from hell is just as true as truth from heaven, only heaven has more of it. We are duty bound to accept true principles no matter where they come from. So grow up, "Jason!" What Ron Paul and Mises.org teach is almost entirely truth (at least what I have seen so far as it pertains to principles of Liberty). If you don't like the source, argue this with Brigham Young, it is still the truth no matter where it comes from.

The problem with you is that you are not guided by principles but by names. That is your weakness. You will be forever blind if you go that way. Principles tramp names of imperfect men. Principles are eternal. True Principles of Liberty are from God. That is my only authority (not your list of names). So get over it. Truth speaks for itself.

So gays in the military is as eternal as God???? GoProud!

You don't have any fundamental principles...that's why there are so many disputations among the libertarians and they can never agree on anything. Its all pie in the sky that when attempted to actually apply....falls apart into fighting and bickering.

Its like you stating your mantra on property rights and then turning around and saying its okay to steal intellectual property....garbage with no real foundational principles. But that shouldn't be a shock considering the minds that came up with it and those who funded them....

You want principles....what's the 1st great commandment and how does libertarianism fit into that???

[moonwhim]

I've posted plenty of evidence for those will to take the time to go through it (information dumps aren't really information dumps if one doesn't read through it)....no trick here (or kidding)...just lack of patience! As well as some curiosity as to what you could come up with....since all I've ever seen you produce is cut n' paste Alex Jones articles...

Again, Jason, it is not my responsibility to prove that Ron Paul is not controlled by the NWO and is not a tool of satan.....you made the assertion that he is controlled by the NWO and a tool of Satan.......if your "lack of patience" is the only excuse you can up with then maybe you don't have the evidence to prove your assertions, or you don't care if you back up your info dumps with a focused paper so that all can see and judge your evidence.

LOL...you are making the assertion that he isn't.

I've already told you my stance. Until I see you put something forward...I'm not going to the work and effort just to please you when you can't take the time to utilize what I've already provided at a significant cost of time.

It's not just me Jason, I bet there are plenty on this forum that would like to see your white paper....but you obviously aren't going to produce it......instead you try to turn the responsibility on me......you will never back up your assertions in a scholarly way. I see that now.

[Jason]

LOL...you are making the assertion that he isn't.

I've already told you my stance. Until I see you put something forward...I'm not going to the work and effort just to please you when you can't take the time to utilize what I've already provided at a significant cost of time.

It's not just me Jason, I bet there are plenty on this forum that would like to see your white paper....but you obviously aren't going to produce it......instead you try to turn the responsibility on me......you will never back up your assertions in a scholarly way. I see that now.

I'm glad you are finally beginning to see the light....LOL....you better set a scholarly example for me to follow on this FORUM (by the way - when was a white paper last presented on this forum to express someone's thoughts about something???) so I don't waste away in laziness and irresponsibility....because so far (your last 90 posts - 3/8/12) all I see is mostly cut 'n' paste (48 cut n' paste posts of "data dump"? - 42 articles, 5 videos, and 1 picture) as well as what you refer to as ("a few conjectured statements") - 42 posts. Of those 42 posts: 20 are replies to me (mostly ignorant and completely ignoring the material provided at the expense of my time...or hammering away at me for not presenting the information in the format that YOU want), 8 replies to Semp (much of the same), and 11 replies to other members (mostly the same).

.....and a whole whopping 3 posts out of 90 of your own stated opinion of which only 2 were barely more than a one liner (Thou Shalt Not Steal)...one of which barely a paragraph (more than one sentence) and there no real presentation of thoughts WITH supporting articles and links...

....so you are ripping on me about a white paper when 2.2% of your last 90 posts contain an original thought that exceeds 1 sentence but doesn't exceed 5 and not so much as a single link or reference to back up your thoughts. So much for your own thoughts and presentation of ideas....speaking of willingness to produce scholarly works (kettle calling itself black or put another way - only seeing the reflection in the mirror)....what's the definition of hypocrisy???

Here is what I suggest...how about you wrap up your 42 cut 'n' paste articles from Alex Jones and Mike Adams into a single white paper???? I'll even make it worth your while since I'm the one asking for it (its not much but at least a little courtesy with respect for your precious time).....for every 10 original and referenced pages I'll send you a 5 dollar bill with a limit of 50 pages. Any plagiarism and you get nothing. You lead out and I'll follow your lead....

White Paper Basics
http://www.canrightcommunications.com/s ... Basics.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are you trying to emulate me with the.....between thoughts?

[LoveIsTruth]

My proof is The Fundamental Principles of Liberty. You CANNOT disprove them anymore than you can unseat God. They are as Eternal as God himself.

So gays in the military is as eternal as God???? GoProud!

Really? You are a liar, and you know it. Either that or you just can't read. May be it is a bit of both. A liar who cannot read.

Its like you stating your mantra on property rights and then turning around and saying its okay to steal intellectual property....

Yep, definitely a liar! Please show me where I have said that, or accept the fact that you are a liar.

You want principles....what's the 1st great commandment and how does libertarianism fit into that???

The Fundamental Principles of Liberty I advocate are in perfect harmony with this and all other commandments, including "Thou shall not steal," which you statists have a real problem with.

[Jason]

My proof is The Fundamental Principles of Liberty. You CANNOT disprove them anymore than you can unseat God. They are as Eternal as God himself.

So gays in the military is as eternal as God???? GoProud!

Really? You are a liar, and you know it. Either that or you just can't read. May be it is a bit of both. A liar who cannot read.

Its like you stating your mantra on property rights and then turning around and saying its okay to steal intellectual property....

Yep, definitely a liar! Please show me where I have said that, or accept the fact that you are a liar.

You want principles....what's the 1st great commandment and how does libertarianism fit into that???

The Fundamental Principles of Liberty I advocate are in perfect harmony with this and all other commandments, including "Thou shall not steal," which you statists have a real problem with.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LoveIsTruth]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101

And...? What exactly does that prove?

[Jason]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101

And...? What exactly does that prove?

Whole thread where you repeatedly rationalize the theft of intellectual property....

[LoveIsTruth]

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... ty#p184101

And...? What exactly does that prove?

Whole thread where you repeatedly rationalize the theft of intellectual property....

Prove it. Where did I do that? In fact I said that using another's work without proper compensation was immoral. So I said exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of!

[Jason]

Prove it. Where did I do that? In fact I said that using another's work without proper compensation was immoral. So I said exactly the opposite of what you are accusing me of!

....yeah you said this -

2) I never said that creator of information should have no compensation. I said that there are proper and improper ways to achieve that compensation. Again, the proper way, consistent with fundamental principles of liberty and with scripture is: 1) Use the information yourself; 2) Secure contract of first use; 3) ask for donations. The improper way is to use force upon your neighbor.

...and I said this -

How exactly can you accomplish #3 when you fail at #2?

If no one respects IP then you go back to the dark ages because you can't adequately secure contract of first use because you can't get adequately compensated for it......which means you don't eat and your family doesn't eat.....which means you work on something else that will put food on the table.....which means the IP never gets invented.....which means nobody benefits from it!

Put a price on the 1st music cd sale if that buyer then makes a copy and distributes to the world for free.....and then try to get someone to purchase that cd for that price!

....again I reiterate to your regurgitation.....pie in the sky until it comes to application (especially in a wicked society). But you'll continue to insist that these hypothesis' of yours are fundamental principles (although never actually applied successfully) and that they automatically equate to FREEDOM and LIBERTY no matter what the real implications are.....which boils down to the similitude of.....a couple of guys asking "how is this teaching being received?"...."very well....EXCEPT...this man does not believe what is being taught"....oh yeah...received very well indeed.

Sort of like recommending privatizing the military, education, TSA, FAA, etc etc etc (the election system for government ???)....all while spouting off that we need to get rid of the "privatized" (Federal Reserve and fractional private banking) money creation system....

....and you respond to such criticism with more pie-

But it will cultivate morals much better than a government monopoly....In a free market people will put an end to it quick. (New York minute.)

...but fail to address actual history...

Agree to disagree with your New York minute....please look up the history of Private military companies (PMCs)/ Private Security Companies (PSCs) like DynCorp - now owned by Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), Blackwater/Xe/Academi, Halliburton, L3 via subsidiary MPRI, BAE Systems - part owned by Carlyle Group which was/is Bush & Bin Laden investment firm, Vinnell - now owned by Northrop but before that by TRW Systems and before that by the Carlyle Group, Executive Outcomes part of the South African-based holding company Strategic Resource Corporation, Sandline International and Rubicon International Services now part of Aegis Defence Services....

...to each their own...we definitely have different definitions of "theft" as well as "liberty" and "freedom". Cue rampant venomous response of "liar" "statist" "grow up" "blind" "weakness" "damned" "tyrant" etc etc etc...

Agree to disagree!!!

Time will tell the story on how this -
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 40#p265538" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...plays out! For better or worse....

[SempiternalHarbinger]

Dang Jason, You stole all my thunder. Haven't been on the forum this week. Now that I have some time I see you covered all the nonsense I was expecting. And Loveistruth, you really need to stop acting as if all the founding fathers agree with you and Ron Paul. As if Ron Paul belongs in that group. Especially Jefferson. I would assume he would get a good laugh at Ron Paul's views on economics and liberty.

[Juliette]

Dang Jason, You stole all my thunder. Haven't been on the forum this week. Now that I have some time I see you covered all the nonsense I was expecting. And Loveistruth, you really need to stop acting as if all the founding fathers agree with you and Ron Paul. As if Ron Paul belongs in that group. Especially Jefferson. I would assume he would get a good laugh at Ron Paul's views on economics and liberty.

Glad you are back Semp! We need you here....The party is more fun!! :ymparty:

[liberty_belle]

Ron Paul: Not it in it for power

Sorry, I cant seem to get the whole embed code for some reason when I click on the clip

Face the Nation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTXwoWdi ... r_embedded

[LoveIsTruth]

And Loveistruth, you really need to stop acting as if all the founding fathers agree with you and Ron Paul. As if Ron Paul belongs in that group. Especially Jefferson. I would assume he would get a good laugh at Ron Paul's views on economics and liberty.

Jefferson, Washington, Madison, Adams, Joseph Smith, and Ezra T. Benson, all agreed with Ron Paul on sound, 100% commodity based money.


But I don't really care for names. I care for Eternal and Fundamental Principles of Liberty, and these principles also agree with Ron Paul on the issue, which means God agrees with Ron Paul on the issue of sound money, and that matters to me (maybe not to you).