LDS Freedom Forum

W. Cleon Skousen tidbit - part 1

I have the wonderful opportunity of being taught by the great LDS Author/Speaker & Constitutionalist W. Cleon Skousen. He is called the greatest constiutional authority in the world because of his knowledge of the Constitution, teachings of the Founding Fathers and his spiritual understanding of this subject. The information taught by him and others is something I treasure; Throughout the lectures I have written notes of things important or interesting to me. So that these teachings are not forgotten and kept in the dark I present them to you. This is part 1...

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ADDITION: I have uploaded the audio recording of my meeting with W. Cleon Skousen on May 29, 2005. This was recorded (filmed actually), and is being shared, with Brother Skousen's permission. This was a meeting with myself, and my in-laws who are close relatives to Brother Skousen.

As I was going through the recording, making any edits I felt necessary, taking out some of the irrelevant parts, I noted some of the topics being discussed:

W. Cleon Skousen - May 29, 2005. (click to play, or right-click and choose 'save as' to download)

Topics discussed:
Mormon, Moroni, and the defensive wars of the book of Mormon. The unconstitutional war in Iraq. John Taylor's vision of some events of the last days tribulations, destruction in Salt Lake City, as well as the events after the cleanse. Parable of the foolish virgins. Church condemnation the Lord declared in D&C 84. The antonement of Jesus Christ. Intelligence and matter. Mission experience in England. Priesthood authority and power. Isaiah. Adam & Eve, Garden of Eden. Spiritual Death. The Spirit World. The pre-mortal counsel. War and Peace. Republican and Democrat Parties. Constitution Party. Bruce R. McKonkie. Ann Tracy, author of Prozac: Panacea or Pandora? discussing antidepressants with Brother Skousen.

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Now for part 1 of the written notes...

16 June 2005

Dr. Skousen served the FBI for 16 years (1935-1951), and worked closely with J. Edgar Hoover.

In 1956 he was asked to serve as Chief of Police of Salt Lake City. He was doing all the right things, especially fighting against vice, gambling and other crimes. There were corrupt individuals who didn't like what he was doing (who wouldn't like a reduction in crime?) so they made sure to elect a Mayor who would fire Skousen, and they did. According to his nephew, Joel Skousen, "The city's Mayor, J Bracken Lee reportedly called Skousen into his office and explained to him "how the world works" in any big city and why he needed to stop being so zealous in his prosecution of gambling and prostitution. Interestingly enough, Mayor Lee was no liberal in the political spectrum--he was a conservative Republican. But clearly his conservative leanings did not spill over into the moral realm. Cleon Skousen refused to ease up on crime and was fired. The scandal broke wide open when Skousen revealed what the Mayor had tried to get him to do, but the media was able to put the issue to sleep by selective spin control." The Mayor, J. Bracken Lee, said that the 3 days following were the worst of his career (because of all the people who protested the Mayor's action.)

The Salt Lake City Police Department has been corrupt ever since.

W. Cleon Skousen tidbit - part 2

16 June 2005 (Continued)

Currently in Cleon Skousen's class we are learning things from his book "The Five Thousand Year Leap". It is one of his many great books about correct government principles.

There is no denying that the Secret Combination spoken of in Ether Chapter 8 of the Book of Mormon exists today. Dr. Skousen spoke about the "War in Iraq," informing us that it is unconstitutional and a war the Founding Fathers would have never gotten involved in. He said President Bush is taking orders from a higher power. One lady in the room asked, "who, Heavenly Father?" At that moment I began laughing in my mind, because I knew the truth was completely opposite. Dr. Skousen responded by saying it is the World Banks, the Rothchild's, Rockefeller's - the money powers, etc. They are the ones who are really in power. They are the ones who ordered the war.

Dr. Skousen said the Lord wants us to put good men in office, but "we are delinquent there."

He later explained that the crimes of the King against the people, that are stated in the Declaration of Independence, are the "same crimes that are there today with our leaders."

"We've degenerated into a democracy." stated Cleon Skousen. "We have really commercialized our politics."

Dr. Skousen gave a wonderful story of how it would be if we were living the law of consecration. Regarding this law he said: "We're lacking people righteous enough for the law of consecration (United Order, not to be confused with the New World Order) to work."

Later we were talking about government officials and I thought - Wouldn't it be nice if we had more people who volunteered their time for this public service. If Presidents, Senators, etc. didn't get a salary unless they really needed it. Many of them were already wealthy before they got into public office. Others, as Cleon Skousen explained "Senator's came in as poor men and left rich men." While he was working for the FBI in Washington D.C. he saw that money really does influence the way the Senator's vote. They follow the money.

W. Cleon Skousen tidbit - part 3

23 June 2005

"One of the greatest sins is that we've turned against the God of this land."

Throughout my Cleon Skousen tidbits I will not be giving details about everything taught because you can read his book "The Five Thousand Year Leap" and learn everything. Currently we have read up to Principle 6. I am interested in giving you tidbits of other important things that are discussed during these meetings.

On June 23rd we found out about the Supreme Court ruling allowing property seizures for private interest. While discussing this terrible decision Dr. Skousen said about those in the Supreme Court who voted for this, "they are wicked and completely unpatriotic." Dr. Skousen went on to discuss the Secret Combination which has infiltrated our government. He also told us of a book about the Illuminati / Secret Combinations, being written by a man who attends our classes. Dr. Skousen said he is proof-reading the book and recommended that we purchase it as soon as it is released.

Regarding the Illuminati. They infiltrated the Free Masons first in Europe, and then in America. Some may wonder why Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other Latter-Day Saints were Masons. It was basically a fraternity club for them. Because of the growing persecution against the Church in those days, they wanted to make friends with the non-LDS in the community, so they joined the Masons. It wasn't until 1870 that American Freemasonry became combined with European Freemasonry. And even then only the highest levels have any sign of Lucifarianism, Illuminati, etc.

Alexis de Tocqueville, an aristocratic Frenchman, who wrote the book "Democracy in America" made a prediction about America that the super-rich will take over and all people will be getting handouts. Dr. Skousen said "these things are happening now."

Dr. Skousen said that "We should seperate Church and State, but not State and Religion." Thomas Jefferson had similard ideas when he said there should be "seperation of church and state." Jefferson put bibles in all the schools. Some would wonder how this is seperation of church and state? The part of the Constitution that mentions this is the 1st Amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Thus seperating Church from State, but not State and Religion. Our country is founded based on the belief that our unalienable rights come from God.

W. Cleon Skousen tidbit - part 4

30 June 2005

I went to another class at W. Cleon Skousen's home. He showed us a great video about the truth of JFK's assassination. It's called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy".

At the beginning of the meeting Cleon spoke about Secret Combinations and corruption in politics/government. He related the story of how Reagan chose Bush Sr. as his Vice President when just days before he had promised he wouldn't… he said it was because of men such as Kissinger and Walter Cronkite who made him do that.

Cleon read 2 Ne. 26:20-22 to us (with a focus on 22):

22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

He related that scripture to what's going on today, and said that these secret combinations today include the Illuminati, CFR (Council on Foreign Relations – of which our Governor, Huntsman, is or was a member), Bilderbergs, Rockefeller's, World Banks, etc…

Cleon said that he stopped telling his story about the truth of JFK's assassination because no one would believe him. He is glad he was able to find these video-documentary's about the true JFK story.

"After the death of Kennedy the Government was taken over and they are still there." (they, as in the secret societies and powerful men who really control the Government.) Cleon then went on to talk about the New World Order and said "we are right in the midst of that. Right now."

He said that the New World Order which is in control right now (relating to the prophecies of the last days, Book of Revelation, etc.) is the "1st dictatorship".

Later, after The Cleanse, there will be a "2nd dictatorship", or world power, that we know of in the scriptures from the story about Gog & Magog. Cleon Skousen and others have an inkling that Gog is alive and living in Russia, he is currently The Russian Deputy Parliament Speaker: Vladimir Zhirinovsky. Do a Google search for Vladimir Zhirinovsky, and read about his book The Final Push South.

Cleon believes that while the second dictatorship is operating in the rest of the world, in America we will be safe from that and building up the New Jerusalem. (This is something I am very interested in and hope someday to discuss it with Cleon further).

Some other comments Skousen made:

"The Democratic Party is filled with wickedness just like the Republican Party."

"You don't know it, but you've lost your country." Meaning that most people don't realize what is truly going on. He also said, "this thing is so complex now" (secret combinations / corruption).

"We're not preaching doomsday, we're preaching – be ready to ride through the storms. Stay close to the Prophet, get out of debt, get your food storage…"

"Those prophecies of secret combinations are coming to pass even today."

President Ezra Taft Benson told Cleon Skousen – don't worry that you're only dealing with little groups, you only need 3%. The Revolution was won with only 3%. The Constitution can be saved with only 3%.

"The (Iraq) War is not necessary." – Cleon Skousen.

"The Powers that be dictate both parties – who runs and who wins." – Cleon Skousen.

After the meeting I asked Cleon Skousen some questions.

Brian: Do you agree with the PATRIOT Act?
Cleon: No I don't! It's just another tool of power.

Brian: A friend of mine thinks that since President Reagan we've been getting better, America is getting better.
Cleon: No! We've been going downhill ever since, getting worse and worse with each election, even with Bush, though people thought he would be different.

W. Cleon Skousen tidbit - part 5

14 July 2005

“And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.” D&C 29:7

It’s not too late. President Hinckley has been focusing on the fact that it’s not too late if the people will repent they will not be destroyed. See D&C 112

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face. Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord. And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord; First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.” D&C 82:23-26

W. Cleon Skousen related these stories to us; the story of The Plague and how it starts in the Lord’s House, the Lord’s Temples, or rather it begins with those who have been in His Temples unworthily and have blasphemed His name.

He also related a fabulous vision of John Taylor.

Dr. Skousen also spoke of our rights regarding the law. He said, “Everyone can choose right from wrong. But there is no right to do wrong.” He went on to explain “There is no right to abort a baby.” Just as there is no right to murder or steal. There was a man in the class who asked if it right for the Government to control certain things and to this Dr. Skousen responded “You are not violating their rights by not allowing them to do wrong. . . If you are not obedient to God you have no agency.”

I was interested to hear how closely Skousen has been involved with the LDS Church leaders throughout the years. He was asked by the Prophets to write many of the books he has published such as "The Making of America" and "The Majesty of God's Law." David O. McKay encouraged Skousen in his spreading of the truth about the Founding Fathers and the Constitution.

W. Cleon Skousen tidbit - part 6

21 July 2005

The Founding Fathers were “Pro-Separatism not Isolationists.” The belief of the Founding Fathers was that we should allow trade with other countries but should not be involved in entangling treaties such as we have today (NAFTA, CAFTA, FTAA, GATT, etc.) We should not be giving “favored nation status’” especially to communist countries like China.

In Utah, in the beginning, the Church discouraged the purchasing of goods from any store that sent the money back east (like the Jews were doing). The reason was simply to allow Utah to become independent; to improve its economy.

28 July 2005

Before 1913, when the Sixteenth Amendment to the Constitution passed, Federal Income Taxes had only been levied during the civil war to help cover war costs. As of 1913 with the 16th Amendment “a socialist monopoly was created.” This was the beginning of the big problem with Government "taking money from Peter to pay Paul."

“In the beginning, hardly anyone had to file a tax return because the tax did not apply to the vast majority of America's work-a-day citizens. For example, in 1939, 26 years after the Sixteenth Amendment was adopted, only 5% of the population, counting both taxpayers and their dependents, was required to file returns. Today, more than 80% of the population is under the income tax.”

Along with the Tax problem, there is another problem with the World Banks, as they have “become so powerful that we can’t do anything about it.” Skousen also mentioned that “the Banks have the power to demand payment in full on a loan (at any time) or they seize your house (or other belongings).

Skousen spoke on another topic and quoted Spencer W. Kimball, who said, “the day of the gentile is over; it is now the day of the Jew and the Lamanite.”

Regarding the Last Days, Skousen said, “I won’t be surprised if Gog rises out of Russia” [possibly Vladimir Zhirinovsky]. “When Gog takes over as a dictator he won’t touch Zion.” During that period of time there will be great storms that make it impossible to cross the oceans that divide America from the rest of the world.

4 August 2005

“Men are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights.” [Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness/property.]

“There are certain rights which cannot be denied unless you forfeit those rights through your own disobedience.”

If a person commits a crime it is his own responsibility to repay his debts. “It is not the responsibility of the Government to repay the victim.”

“To protect man’s rights, God has revealed certain principles of divine law.”

18 August 2005

“This is the beginning of the fall of the United States of America. . . It will most likely take an intervention from the Lord to save us.”

A great source of up to date information and truth can be obtained from Howard Phillips and the Conservative Caucus.

Regarding Iraq, “We’re fighting a war that will never end, the way it’s going.” We’ve been in Iraq for over 2 ½ years, supposedly giving them freedom and democracy. Iraq will soon have a new Constitution; regarding this, Dr. Skousen said that in Iraq they will “not get a stable government” but rather “civil war.”

Dr. Skousen told us the reason he is teaching this class is to make us aware of how government should be and what it actually is. He is informing us of where our leaders have gone wrong and what we, the people, can do about it. He is teaching us about the US Constitution and the proper role of government.

“The United States of America shall be a Republic.” The Constitution gave us a Republic, not a democracy. Democracy ends in tyranny, as history has proved. Democracy is the majority rule “right or wrong” and polls often decide what the majority thinks. As long as the people choose righteous and moral leaders, a Republican form of government will not fail, and will always protect the God-given rights of the people.

Over 20 years ago Dr. Skousen met with Latin American leaders to teach them about righteous government. They wanted a Latin American Constitution. The leaders were very accepting of Skousen’s teachings until his last lecture. He told them that this would only be possible with moral and righteous leaders. The Latin American leaders rejected this idea because they did not want to abandon their immoral behavior.

Skousen proclaimed that, sadly, “we are a socialist society.” Quoting Adam Smith, he also said, “We must have freedom to try, freedom to buy, freedom to sell, and freedom to fail.” Dr. Skousen went on to explain that “FDR (Franklin D. Roosevelt) was terrible! The worst leader.” The socialists have been in charge for over 60 years, and according to FDR, “it doesn’t matter if the Democrats or Republicans are in power, the Socialists are still in charge.”

25 August 2005

Cleon Skousen’s Grandson is currently in Iraq. According to him, their worst enemy in Iraq is the press. They are always getting in the way, tagging along with the soldiers. These embedded reporters want the soldiers to wait for them while they set up their cameras. Basically, his grandson said that their [the soldiers] hands are tied; they can’t do all that they want to do. He also reported that the Iraqis are not too friendly; they hate being occupied. One problem is that if America gets out of Iraq now, there will immediately be a civil war.

Dr. Skousen said “we’re in a war that the Founding Fathers warned against.”

President Ezra Taft Benson warned the Saints. He told them to become well informed on the Constitution. “The Saints are not doing this,” Skousen said. “Only small groups are.” The Saints ignored much of the prophet’s counsel. Both President Benson and McKay requested that W. Cleon Skousen teach, meet, and have discussions about the Constitution, with all who have ears to hear.

Dr. Skousen informed us that we also need to learn about Government and Economics. The “Free Trade agreements have all been unconstitutional, and hurt our economy.” The majority of Americans don’t understand this, and have been misinformed by those in power whom promoted these Trade Agreements.

We are losing our Constitutional Rights. “The
Butler Case did more to destroy the people’s rights than any other case.” That was the end of the Constitution.”

Regarding the Republicans and Democrats, Skousen said that “they are enmeshed in the Secret Combination.” Many of the Saints “are sound asleep” and have yet waken up to this awful reality. “It is important that you [the informed] get the people awakened in an intelligent and careful way.”

My favourite memory of Brother Skousen goes back to late 1971, when he was my landlord. He did two things which left a lasting impression on me. First, when I told him I was considering a job with the CIA, he asked why. In response to one of my reasons, he stated that I'd be doing more good for the other side because the CIA was so infiltrated. And I guess Ames and Hanssen proved him right. The other thing he did which I greatly admired was at considerable expense to himself and with I believe considerable financial backing in addition to his own resources, established the Freeman Institute for the purpose of teaching Americans about the US Constitution and the threats to destroy it and merge America into a one world political, economic and military unit. The Freeman Institute eventually evolved into the National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS)

Most of you probably know that as a university professor, Brother Skousen wrote in his book "The Naked Capitalist" , on Pg. 1, the following: ""I think the Communist conspiracy is merely a branch of a much bigger conspiracy'. The above statement was made to this reviewer several years ago by Bella Dodd, a former member of the National Committee of the U.S. Communist Party. Dr. Dodd said she first became aware of some mysterious super-leadership right after World War II when the U.S. Communist Party had difficulty getting instructions from Moscow on several vital matters requiring immediate attention. The American Communist hierarchy was told that any time they had an emergency of this kind they should contact any one of three designated persons at the Waldorf Towers. Dr. Dodd noted that whenever the Party obtained instructions from any of these three men, Moscow always ratified them. What puzzled Dr. Dodd was the fact that not one of these three contacts was a Russian. Nor were any of them Communists. In fact, all three were extremely wealthy American capitalists." I have further personal correspondence from him on this subject, basically telling me that Bella Dodd never knew who the “wealthy American capitalists were. A few years ago Dr. Skousen, in reply to my inquiry about Dr. Dodd having spoken of “wealthy Americans” who at times gave direction to the Communist Party USA right after World War 2, wrote to me: “...April 23, 1962. Bella Dodd told me that while she was working as a member of the national committee of the Communist Party, she learned from William Z. Foster, head of the American Communist Party, that if they couldn’t make a decision on any particular problem they should go to the Waldorf Astoria for instructions. Their courier always took these inquiries to Arthur J. Goldsmith. However, she did not know whether he was one of the three or merely a go between who delivered the message to the three wealthy contacts and then later brought back the answer.”

September 1, 2005


When Dr. Skousen was in the FBI they had rated New Orleans the 3rd most wicked city (based on crime rates), after New York and Chicago. Could the tragedy in New Orleans have been a warning? A call to repentance? We don’t know, but what we do know is that “this is just one disaster of more to come.”

It’s not too late, we can still restore the Constitution and our God-given rights. Skousen told us about FDR and the terrible things he did while President. “He was the biggest fake and liar,” Skousen told us.

Jefferson lamented: “We are completely saddled and bridled and… The Bank is so firmly mounted on us that we must go where [it] will guide.”

Cleon Skousen also taught us some things about the Rockefellers and Rothschilds. The Rothschilds own the Bank of England. They are the richest family in the World. Both the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers are working together towards their globalistic, one-world goals, but they are also competing for power at the same time. Their influence comes from their massive amounts of wealth. The Rothschilds “practically own the world” and “have the most gold of anyone in the world.” The Rothschilds also have much influence in the media, they are the ones who setup Reuters news. Skousen told us that these families are part of the Secret Combination. “Our people know so little about this Secret Combination (Secret Conspiracy) that they don’t believe it when they hear it.”

September 8, 2005


"And many people shall go and say, Come ye and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."[Isaiah 2:3]

President David O. McKay read that scripture to W. Cleon Skousen and said, “this is not yet fulfilled.” He then continued and explained “I want you to fulfill it.”

It is my opinion (you’re welcome to prove me otherwise) that Dr. Skousen has done more than any other person in researching, compiling and understanding the works and mission of the Founding Fathers of this nation. He has written many books about the Constitution, principles taught by the founding fathers, Communism, Capitalism, Freedom, the proper role of government and much more.

Problems with people today:

1. Our people lack knowledge of the Constitution.
2. We lack good people running for office.
3. We lack people who understand what’s going on and understand when and where the Constitution isn’t being followed.

Usurpation is a problem with our government today. Our leaders have made treaties that encroach on our rights. Usurpation starts with the President. Executive Order 11490 is one of the things that have done away with state government. The Federal Government can take over food, transportation, emergency preparedness functions, etc. There have been far too many dangerous executive orders. “It’s gotten to such a point that we almost need our Heavenly Father to intervene.

Even as of this year Skousen has been actively engaged in a good cause. He encouraged Senator Orrin Hatch to vote against the Free Trade Laws, because these are communistic acts.

“Schools are spreading socialist propaganda.”

“There is a Globalist movement that is now underway.”

“World government is never the answer,” it always ends up as a dictatorship.

President McKay asked Dr. Skousen to write an outline on how to restore the Constitution. McKay said “organize the people the way chapter 1 of Deuteronomy says.”

The resulting book is: “The Majesty of God’s Law.” If I were to recommend you read any book, it would be this one. As Dr. Skousen was doing research for this book, he realized that Thomas Jefferson knew a lot about running a ward! In this book you will see the similarities of teachings from the Law of Moses, the government of the Anglo-Saxons, the Founding Fathers, the U.S. Constitution, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Also, this book goes into depth regarding the Law of Consecration, or United Order, and the form of government that God will have on the earth during the Millenium.

September 15, 2005


President David O. McKay told Ezra Taft Benson and W. Cleon Skousen to keep teaching politics even though many members and even some of the apostles didn’t agree with them. There are some who would like to believe that Ezra Taft Benson “repented” of talking politics when he became the President of the Church. This is hogwash! Benson continued on, even stronger than before, proclaiming the duties we have in defending the Constitution and principles of freedom.

“Bush is a globalist. He says the right things, but is not doing the right things.”

“The Constitution is hanging by a thread”

“The meat consists of the mysteries of the gospel” (D&C 88:37)

Dr. Skousen used to be a Democrat because they were the conservative party before.

Skousen spoke to us about President Benson, and also referred to a talk given by President Hinckley at President Benson’s funeral:


“…I am confident that it was out of what he saw of the bitter fruit of dictatorship that he developed his strong feelings, almost hatred, for communism and socialism. That distaste grew through the years as he witnessed the heavy-handed oppression and suffering of the peoples of eastern Europe under what he repeatedly described as godless communism.”

“…These experiences further strengthened his love for the land of his birth. He had grown up in big sky country, where there was a spirit of freedom and independence. He had grown up in the tradition of his forebears, who spoke reverently of those who were raised up by the Almighty to establish this nation and who had pledged “their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor” to the cause of liberty. He never got over his boyhood love for freedom. Rather it grew within him, nurtured by what he saw of oppression in other lands and by what he observed firsthand of a growing dominance of government in this land over the lives of the people.”

“Ezra Taft Benson was the fearless and outspoken enemy of communism, a man who with eloquence and conviction preached the cause of human freedom, one who loved and worshipped the Prince of Peace, the Redeemer of mankind. He died in the love of people across the world, a man respected and reverenced, a man for whose well-being millions constantly prayed…”

"As has been indicated, the Book of Mormon was his love. He read it. He quoted it in his teachings. His voice rang out in eloquent warning of the fate that could overtake this nation unless the people of the land walk in righteousness and serve the God of the Land, who is Jesus Christ. As holder of the keys of the priesthood, restored in this dispensation, he blessed the people he loved. He honored the sacred office to which he had been called..." [Gordon B. Hinckley, “Farewell to a Prophet,” Ensign, July 1994, 37.]

Give me more insight into the sons of Cleon. I know his son Harold is an active LDS Patriot and has been involved with sometrhing called Freedom Fest. i do not know if this is still the case? He also did video editting for the Liberty Dollar video.

What of his other sons or daughters? Are they all active members? I know there was a link to one here somewhere. What work do the sons and daughters carry on within the church and within the Freedom movement?

Brian, On Dec 5, you said Bro Skousen said “This is the beginning of the fall of the United States of America. . . It will most likely take an intervention from the Lord to save us.”

In what context was this. What is the beginning of the fall?

Husband of Liberty

Brian, On Dec 5, you said Bro Skousen said “This is the beginning of the fall of the United States of America. . . It will most likely take an intervention from the Lord to save us.” In what context was this. What is the beginning of the fall?

This was regarding all of the events happening in the world, the secret combinations, the socialism, the unjust wars, the wickedness of the people.. basically Cleon Skousen believed that the only way we'll get out of this mess were in is by an intervention of the Lord.

Give me more insight into the sons of Cleon. I know his son Harold is an active LDS Patriot and has been involved with sometrhing called Freedom Fest. i do not know if this is still the case? He also did video editting for the Liberty Dollar video.

I don't know much about his sons. I know Paul is active with FreeCapitalist.com as well as Glen Kimber (Cleon's son-in-law). I know that they aren't as outspoken and blunt about the Secret Combinations as Cleon was, but they are definitely constitutionalists.

What of his other sons or daughters? Are they all active members? I know there was a link to one here somewhere. What work do the sons and daughters carry on within the church and within the Freedom movement?

I believe they are all active members, but I've only personally met Paul Skousen. I don't know to what extent they are involved in the freedom movement except for those two I mentioned above. I may be wrong, but from what I can tell, they aren't quite like their father and don't seem to be as involved as I would have hoped in the freedom movement. (but maybe they are, I don't know his sons/daughters well enough to have a solid opinion.)

Thanks for all of that. That was some awesome reading and great links. Br. Skousen was a great guy and patriot. I hope there will be others like him who rise up and fight.

Do you know if he believed that 9/11 was an inside job? I've been looking but haven't found anything yet?

Do you know if he believed that 9/11 was an inside job? I've been looking but haven't found anything yet?

He did have Steven Jones come speak at his home about the 9/11.

I don't have an exact quote regarding that, but from what he said at various times it seems that Dr. Skousen believed that 9/11 was an inside job, at least to some extent. Whether he believe the gov. fully orchastrated it, I don't know? Maybe he believe that the gov. allowed it to happen, or knew of it, and didn't prevent it... I don't remember his specific beliefs on that. I think he did mention that the Rothschilds were involved somehow.

The Rothschilds and Rockerfellers are in competition with each other it seems, so trying to get advantage over the other by creating wars, so that they can loan more money and make more money seems logical to me.

Uh... you've lost me here.

I agree that Cleon did many extra ordinary things and was a great man. I was a student and fan of his until the last years. My falily studied all his books and pamplets. But, as truth is its own servant, maybe he is being painted a touch to bright. I was considering a campaign against Sen. Hatch, plus I had just finished writing "where have you been" .(posted at http://www.stanwarner.com) So, I went and spoke with him twice over about two weeks. Things that he had taught for years seemed not to matter as he defended everything Hatch had been involved with. Cleon had a great life, I suspect it was filled with ups and downs, mostly ups, I hope, as he sure earned them. God bless Cleon.

Stan,

I am curious to learn more about what Cleon told you as you were discussing running against Orrin Hatch? What was he defending about Orrin Hatch? And what year was this?

In 2005 Cleon encouraged me to support the Constitution Party and even said that he had voted for the Constitution Party presidential candidate in 2004. Also, Cleon told us many times about his disappointments with bills that Hatch was voting on.

I am very interested in understanding why someone who understands the principles, like Cleon does, would defend another who is violating those principles? Is there some kind of "greater" principle he believed applied in the situation? I'd love to know more.

Thanks for posting the notes of your meetings. I had the chance to meet with Brother Skousen a couple of times and he was a marvelous man. You mentioned that their was a man attending those meetings/classes who was writing a book about the Illuminati / Secret Combination's. What is the name of the book?

The book about the Illuminati / Secret Combination's was written by Ken Bowers, "Beneath the Tide: Who Really Runs the World?" See: http://www.latterdayconservative.com/fr ... d-mp3.html

Dr. Skousen said that he thought Ken's book is the most accurate book he had read on the subject of Secret Combinations.