President Monson's conference talk RE marriage

[HeirofNumenor]

HeirofNumenor, I appreciate your reply, but I must take exception. I knew a guy whose wife left him. He was in his mid 30s and he had a discussion with his stake patriarch on marriage. The advice he got was that he was not to be concerned with age since earthy age does not correspond with eternal age (a 20 year old may actually be thousands of years older than her 35 or 45 year husband, and that will become apparent in the next life). he, that's what he told him. His ex bishop suggested he take summer classes at BYU to meet some young 20 somethings and start a family while his bishop called him in and told him it was his duty as a father of several young boys, as well as a devout priesthood holder, to find a wife who would be a good example to his sons and also so he and this woman could have children together.

And that man followed the counsel of his priesthood authorities. My stake president acted in his stewardship as well - and properly, given the demographics and geography of San Diego County.

[Obiwan]

I wanted to throw this out there for discussion since I didn't agree 100% with it. During conference over the weekend, Pres. Monson spoke about marriage and the importance of our young people finding a suitable companion with whom to settle down with and start a family, etc. instead of simply enjoying the ease of life and being satisfied by being single and traveling, hanging out with friends, having the time to do what you want when you want, etc. The impression I got from him was that whether it be a young woman or a young man of marriage age (21+), that they have a sacred obligation and duty to find someone with the same ideals, goals, spiritual values, etc. (wanting a family, temple marriage, steady career, et. al.) in order to fulfill Heavenly Father's plan of eternal life with your spouse, family and children in the celestial kingdom and that if you are able to find someone like that, what are you waiting for?

While I think the advice is good, I think Pres. Monson left out one very crucial and important factor in determining whether or not to marry someone and that is the deep emotional attachment and love for someone. I know I couldn't just marry some girl I was physcially attracted to who shared the same values and goals I did if I didn't love her or have feelings for her. There is a big difference and I think Pres. Monson missed it. I know far too many young people who have done just that (simply marrying the first good, spritual person they dated whom they were attracted to without being 'in love' per se), figuring it would work out just fine since they shared similar goals and values, but then after a while, with no real genuine love for the other person, they end up having problems and then divorce. I'm curious to know what others think about this? I know I would and could never marry someone I didn't have deep emotional attachment to or 'feelings for' and would probably rather remain single than marrying for the sake of marrying. Thoughts?

People get divorced even if they were "in love" with the person..... Being "in love" is ultimately a choice, and is created by certain choices and actions, and thoughts, which ultimately create the love. Being "in love" is a fleeting emotion that simply doesn't last nor is created unless both party's are doing what they are supposed to be doing in the relationship. While I can appreciate your perspective, because my own wife left me, giving as one of the excuses was that she wasn't "in love" with me. The fact is, is we can actually be with anyone and even love them, if we choose to. We can love the person if we choose to. Of course, if the other person is also doing their part. My ex was only ever "in love" with me when things were good, when she was actually there, and doing her part to create love. But, most of the time she wasn't alienating herself from me, and so she feel out of love. One thing you learn as you get older, and you are an actual loving person, is that the "feeling" of love is irrelevant to it all. While it's important, ones actions which create those feelings is the important thing. Me, I could be with and love anyone. Obviously I have my preferences and ideals, but, I could be with anyone, including my ex even with all the evils she has done and still does. However, the problem I'm having at the moment is I don't want to be with anyone else. I want to be with the woman I convented with before God, the mother of my children, etc. Unfortunately, she simply never gave herself to the marriage and the relationship, she always held herself back, thus it was easy for her to run away. All she had to do was actually follow what the Gospel teaches, and we would have all had the happiness and love we both desired.

Thus, what President Monson taught is absolutely correct.

[mes5464]

I wanted to throw this out there for discussion since I didn't agree 100% with it. During conference over the weekend, Pres. Monson spoke about marriage and the importance of our young people finding a suitable companion with whom to settle down with and start a family, etc. instead of simply enjoying the ease of life and being satisfied by being single and traveling, hanging out with friends, having the time to do what you want when you want, etc. The impression I got from him was that whether it be a young woman or a young man of marriage age (21+), that they have a sacred obligation and duty to find someone with the same ideals, goals, spiritual values, etc. (wanting a family, temple marriage, steady career, et. al.) in order to fulfill Heavenly Father's plan of eternal life with your spouse, family and children in the celestial kingdom and that if you are able to find someone like that, what are you waiting for?

While I think the advice is good, I think Pres. Monson left out one very crucial and important factor in determining whether or not to marry someone and that is the deep emotional attachment and love for someone. I know I couldn't just marry some girl I was physcially attracted to who shared the same values and goals I did if I didn't love her or have feelings for her. There is a big difference and I think Pres. Monson missed it. I know far too many young people who have done just that (simply marrying the first good, spritual person they dated whom they were attracted to without being 'in love' per se), figuring it would work out just fine since they shared similar goals and values, but then after a while, with no real genuine love for the other person, they end up having problems and then divorce. I'm curious to know what others think about this? I know I would and could never marry someone I didn't have deep emotional attachment to or 'feelings for' and would probably rather remain single than marrying for the sake of marrying. Thoughts?

Wow! 6 pages of comments. I might as well throw in my 2¢.

1) We should already love (deep emotional attachment) everyone. I think that is what the pure love of Christ is.

2) We should be able to make a successful marriage with anyone HF pares us with. Wasn't it Issac who's wife was selected for him by Abraham's servant? Didn't he pick the woman by asking for a sign? We are fortunate to be able to pick our spouses but I don't think it would always have to be this way. I could see HF making an assignment. If both parties are righteous (I would presume the HF would pick a righteous spouse for each of us) then the two should be able to make it work.

[Amore Vero]

"In this day when 'modern thought & liberal mindedness' take hold of the people, as it did in the days of Noah before the flood, the sacredness of marriage has largely been lost, if not entirely lost."

Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History & Modern Revelation, 4:159-160.

[Amore Vero]

All she had to do was actually follow what the Gospel teaches, and we would have all had the happiness and love we both desired.

Actually, I believe that if 'you' follow what the Gospel teaches & still keep your covenants to her, you both can still have all the happiness & love you both desired 'together'.

For one day she must return & repent & make it all up to you, if you really want to faithfully wait that long for her til she does. True Love is rare but possible.

Divorce or even remarriage are only valid with God if it's 'justified', otherwise the people will one day have to return & repent to the spouse they abandoned, if their spouse wants them back.

"I am convinced that the Lord will force some couples who separate without justification, after they have been sealed in the House of the Lord, back again to each other."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation 4:160-161.

"Do you think you have obtained a bill of divorce? No, nor ever can. It takes a higher power than a bill of divorce to take a woman from a man (or man from a woman) who is good & honors his Priesthood... else the spouse is bound to their spouse & will be forever & ever.
You might as well ask me for a piece of blank paper for a divorce, as to have a little writing on it... it is all nonsense & folly; There is no such thing in the ordinances of the House of God; You cannot find any such law."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17

"There is no ecclesiastical law to free a wife from a man to who she has been sealed, if he honors his Priesthood."
Discourses of Brigham Young, p.196.

"You may just as well tear off a piece of your shirt tail, & lay it by & call it a divorce, so far as any good that piece of paper called divorce will do you."
Brigham Young, A Few Words of Doctrine, Oct. 8, 1891.

"No judge in this world in any court of the land can annul a marriage for time & all eternity. He may separate the husband & wife by legal enactments so far as this world is concerned, but he cannot separate that husband & wife so far as the next world is concerned."
Joseph Fielding Smith, CR Apr. 1961.

[HeirofNumenor]

People get divorced even if they were "in love" with the person..... Being "in love" is ultimately a choice, and is created by certain choices and actions, and thoughts, which ultimately create the love. Being "in love" is a fleeting emotion that simply doesn't last nor is created unless both party's are doing what they are supposed to be doing in the relationship. While I can appreciate your perspective, because my own wife left me, giving as one of the excuses was that she wasn't "in love" with me. The fact is, is we can actually be with anyone and even love them, if we choose to. We can love the person if we choose to. Of course, if the other person is also doing their part. My ex was only ever "in love" with me when things were good, when she was actually there, and doing her part to create love. But, most of the time she wasn't alienating herself from me, and so she feel out of love. One thing you learn as you get older, and you are an actual loving person, is that the "feeling" of love is irrelevant to it all. While it's important, ones actions which create those feelings is the important thing. Me, I could be with and love anyone. Obviously I have my preferences and ideals, but, I could be with anyone, including my ex even with all the evils she has done and still does. However, the problem I'm having at the moment is I don't want to be with anyone else. I want to be with the woman I convented with before God, the mother of my children, etc. Unfortunately, she simply never gave herself to the marriage and the relationship, she always held herself back, thus it was easy for her to run away. All she had to do was actually follow what the Gospel teaches, and we would have all had the happiness and love we both desired.

Thus, what President Monson taught is absolutely correct.

sorry you had to go through that Obiwan...

Every situation is different. I myself had to wait 40 years to find a woman who would marry me...we dated for 4 1/2 years, got married, then divorced 3 years later...Both of us ignored the red flags we kept seeing, because we had a powerful connection and I served her immensely. That, and the fact that when I prayed about marrying her, I missed the realization that when I would tell HF how much I loved her, and the thought immediately slammed into my mind "but we are always fighting - she is always yelling at me" - well, I didn't make the connection that that WAS my answer - NOT a good match...(she also had the answer "Yes, you CAN marry him...BUT...it is going to be a lot more difficult than it should be)...

We were so fundamentally different. 10 years older than me, multiple divorces prior, 7 kids nearly all grown, 13 grandkids...all to my - nothing... Plus, we each brought our baggage into the marriage. Naturally we disagree as to who was at fault. In my case, it was 3 years of Hell nearly everyday, once we got back from the Honeymoon. I'm sure she feels much the same. Of course, we didn't have ANY money for counseling of any sort - nor may it have done any good if one party refuses to see her(or his) fault and weaknesses - especially coming from things that happened in childhood, that don't want to be acknowledged. In leaving, I had the support of not only my own family, but also her adult children (I was one step away from a complete emotional and mental breakdown - getting away from her was the only option for health and safety). We tried to see if reconciliation was possible - yet while we were more courteous and kind to each other, the basic problems were still there. I could never shake the feeling in prayer that divorce was the only "healthy"/healthiest option - and any other will result in the Lord being displeased and left to suffer out my folly. Going to the temple the week of this last Gen Conf, and also the week after... I got massive confirmations of peace and confidence that divorce in this case was acceptable and right. incidentally, she hit me hard with Pres. Monson's talk on marriage...saying why divorce is not an option (she has been divorced multiple times already). Now I feel horrible, I didn't get married to get divorced, and if she ever healed completely, we MIGHT be able to work things out and peaceably coexist. But that is not likely in this life.

Yes, Pres. Kimball said any two righteous people can make a marriage work. what is forgotten is that it will be so much harder, unless you are a good fit to begin with. The Church's institute manual for marriage prep makes a good point - one which prophets and apostles have generally been saying anyway - find someone close enough to you in background, temperament, expectations, values, etc., so that you can easily work together and match/complement each other. The world teaches that opposites attract - that is true: but only in the sense of initial out-of-control passion. Once the hormones fade (or are indulged and sated), reality kicks in, and you find you really don't get along, or like the same things.

As an example, while I am not trying to date now, I am attempting to socialize with women - basically as penpals. I have written and spoken with a few by phone. For some, I can feel their hearts, minds, and spirits. Connections are made mentally, emotionally, and spiritually (without getting into physical desires). Granted, some feel I am too newly divorced, others feel that we would be awesome friends, but not so good marriage partners - based on life differences...and given what I just went through, who could argue? Ironically, one woman really likes me, but I feel nothing there beyond "she's hot!" we have not been able to turn the corner and have meaningful conversation. in this case, how likely is it there could be a successful marriage? Nothing in common but wanting an eternal marriage - once the passion fades, then we struggle to coexist both wanting totally separate things, never liking what the other wants to do. Sure...as long as we both are righteous...but you have both have to share enough likes attitudes, and values to make it work more smoothly. Gone are days when it was enough for the man to be a hard worker and good provider (and not be a drunkard or a striker), and the woman to be a good mother and cook (without being a lush or a spendthrift).

Just my thoughts...

[HeirofNumenor]

All she had to do was actually follow what the Gospel teaches, and we would have all had the happiness and love we both desired.

Actually, I believe that if 'you' follow what the Gospel teaches & still keep your covenants to her, you both can still have all the happiness & love you both desired 'together'.

For one day she must return & repent & make it all up to you, if you really want to faithfully wait that long for her til she does. True Love is rare but possible.

Divorce or even remarriage are only valid with God if it's 'justified', otherwise the people will one day have to return & repent to the spouse they abandoned, if their spouse wants them back.

"I am convinced that the Lord will force some couples who separate without justification, after they have been sealed in the House of the Lord, back again to each other."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation 4:160-161.

"Do you think you have obtained a bill of divorce? No, nor ever can. It takes a higher power than a bill of divorce to take a woman from a man (or man from a woman) who is good & honors his Priesthood... else the spouse is bound to their spouse & will be forever & ever.
You might as well ask me for a piece of blank paper for a divorce, as to have a little writing on it... it is all nonsense & folly; There is no such thing in the ordinances of the House of God; You cannot find any such law."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17

"There is no ecclesiastical law to free a wife from a man to who she has been sealed, if he honors his Priesthood."
Discourses of Brigham Young, p.196.

"You may just as well tear off a piece of your shirt tail, & lay it by & call it a divorce, so far as any good that piece of paper called divorce will do you."
Brigham Young, A Few Words of Doctrine, Oct. 8, 1891.

"No judge in this world in any court of the land can annul a marriage for time & all eternity. He may separate the husband & wife by legal enactments so far as this world is concerned, but he cannot separate that husband & wife so far as the next world is concerned."
Joseph Fielding Smith, CR Apr. 1961.

All this is true....until a sealing cancellation is granted by the First Presidency. Usually, this will only happen once the woman/ex-wife is engaged to be married, and both her and fiancee are worthy and have current temple recommends. Then she gets a sealing clearance. The man/ex-husband who seeks another sealing will only obtain a sealing clearance - he will never get a cancellation unless his ex-wife is engaged - though sometimes a cancellation will be granted in the case of adultery, child molestation, physical abuse, etc.

According the the various former temple presidents and GA 70's that were in my last married ward in Orem, what is happening now is that absent abuse/adultery, if the woman seeks to be sealed to a new husband (whether she is divorced or widowed) the Church is now sealing her without cancelling the first sealing. This leaves it for the Millennium/spirit world for the various spouses to straighten things out - who they want to be with for eternity, if worthy of exhaltation.

[Silas]

I thought they only did that for deceased women.

[HeirofNumenor]

evidentally not now

[Amore Vero]

All this is true....until a sealing cancellation is granted by the First Presidency. Usually, this will only happen once the woman/ex-wife is engaged to be married, and both her and fiancee are worthy and have current temple recommends. Then she gets a sealing clearance. The man/ex-husband who seeks another sealing will only obtain a sealing clearance - he will never get a cancellation unless his ex-wife is engaged - though sometimes a cancellation will be granted in the case of adultery, child molestation, physical abuse, etc.

According the the various former temple presidents and GA 70's that were in my last married ward in Orem, what is happening now is that absent abuse/adultery, if the woman seeks to be sealed to a new husband (whether she is divorced or widowed) the Church is now sealing her without cancelling the first sealing. This leaves it for the Millennium/spirit world for the various spouses to straighten things out - who they want to be with for eternity, if worthy of exhaltation.

Wow, that is new, if true, that they are allowing women to be 'sealed' to more than one 'living' husband. Interesting. I guess they realize that many people do not tell the whole story about the divorce to their leaders & so they realize only Heavenly Father can decide in the next life who is worthy of who or what.

For yes, people can get sealed to other people, but it's all only valid if the people were truly worthy of the sealings & justified & innocent in the divorce. There are people who deceive their way past leaders & into the temple to be sealed & remarried. The church says that those are not valid unless they were truly righteous & worthy & justified in their divorce.

The church also says that when there is a 'sealing cancellation' then usually in most cases 'one or both' spouses are excommunicated for the sins that caused the divorce.

[HeirofNumenor]

All this is true....until a sealing cancellation is granted by the First Presidency. Usually, this will only happen once the woman/ex-wife is engaged to be married, and both her and fiancee are worthy and have current temple recommends. Then she gets a sealing clearance. The man/ex-husband who seeks another sealing will only obtain a sealing clearance - he will never get a cancellation unless his ex-wife is engaged - though sometimes a cancellation will be granted in the case of adultery, child molestation, physical abuse, etc.

According the the various former temple presidents and GA 70's that were in my last married ward in Orem, what is happening now is that absent abuse/adultery, if the woman seeks to be sealed to a new husband (whether she is divorced or widowed) the Church is now sealing her without cancelling the first sealing. This leaves it for the Millennium/spirit world for the various spouses to straighten things out - who they want to be with for eternity, if worthy of exhaltation.

Wow, that is new, if true, that they are allowing women to be 'sealed' to more than one 'living' husband. Interesting. I guess they realize that many people do not tell the whole story about the divorce to their leaders & so they realize only Heavenly Father can decide in the next life who is worthy of who or what.

For yes, people can get sealed to other people, but it's all only valid if the people were truly worthy of the sealings & justified & innocent in the divorce. There are people who deceive their way past leaders & into the temple to be sealed & remarried. The church says that those are not valid unless they were truly righteous & worthy & justified in their divorce.

The church also says that when there is a 'sealing cancellation' then usually in most cases 'one or both' spouses are excommunicated for the sins that caused the divorce.

You raise good point. It caught me off guard when it was first mentioned in Gospel Doctrine, and the 70 (now A temple pres) confirmed it. Granted, it was not a detailed explanation. And yes, many people lie.

As far as sealing cancellation and excommunication...that statement applies primarily sometime before a remarriage, when the injured spouse (usually ex-wife) wants nothing to do with the ex because he was a wife-beater, serial adulterer, child molester, etc. in that case, the First Pres. will often grant the cancellation so the woman will have no binding ties to the man ( or the other way around, if the case). The children are still sealed to both parents - though the tie between the parents is broken.

[Nan]

All this is true....until a sealing cancellation is granted by the First Presidency. Usually, this will only happen once the woman/ex-wife is engaged to be married, and both her and fiancee are worthy and have current temple recommends. Then she gets a sealing clearance. The man/ex-husband who seeks another sealing will only obtain a sealing clearance - he will never get a cancellation unless his ex-wife is engaged - though sometimes a cancellation will be granted in the case of adultery, child molestation, physical abuse, etc.

According the the various former temple presidents and GA 70's that were in my last married ward in Orem, what is happening now is that absent abuse/adultery, if the woman seeks to be sealed to a new husband (whether she is divorced or widowed) the Church is now sealing her without cancelling the first sealing. This leaves it for the Millennium/spirit world for the various spouses to straighten things out - who they want to be with for eternity, if worthy of exhaltation.

Wow, that is new, if true, that they are allowing women to be 'sealed' to more than one 'living' husband. Interesting. I guess they realize that many people do not tell the whole story about the divorce to their leaders & so they realize only Heavenly Father can decide in the next life who is worthy of who or what.

For yes, people can get sealed to other people, but it's all only valid if the people were truly worthy of the sealings & justified & innocent in the divorce. There are people who deceive their way past leaders & into the temple to be sealed & remarried. The church says that those are not valid unless they were truly righteous & worthy & justified in their divorce.

The church also says that when there is a 'sealing cancellation' then usually in most cases 'one or both' spouses are excommunicated for the sins that caused the divorce.

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

[HeirofNumenor]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

naturally, without question.

[Amore Vero]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

[Jason]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

Well unfortunately for you it is. Otherwise one would bind two individuals together who are on different ground....unfair to both! In other words unjust....and God is a just God.

[Silas]

Yeah, its not enough to go to the temple and have the ordinance performed you and your spouse have to live worthy of the blessings of it throughout your lifetime.

[Nan]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

By your incorrect belief you are using force to have your former spouse with you in the celestial kingdom. Not only that, you are saying that someone who is unworthy to be with God, will have to be with God which would actually be hell for that person. Your belief in this area is absolutely incorrect. The reason for keeping our covenants is so that we can be with God. And if we keep our covenants, God will give us someone else who also kept his covenants.

[Amore Vero]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

By your incorrect belief you are using force to have your former spouse with you in the celestial kingdom. Not only that, you are saying that someone who is unworthy to be with God, will have to be with God which would actually be hell for that person. Your belief in this area is absolutely incorrect. The reason for keeping our covenants is so that we can be with God. And if we keep our covenants, God will give us someone else who also kept his covenants.

Only Heavenly Father can explain these things to us & give us a testimony about the truth of it all, if a person is really sincere & wants to know. I encourage you to study it out more.

[Jason]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

By your incorrect belief you are using force to have your former spouse with you in the celestial kingdom. Not only that, you are saying that someone who is unworthy to be with God, will have to be with God which would actually be hell for that person. Your belief in this area is absolutely incorrect. The reason for keeping our covenants is so that we can be with God. And if we keep our covenants, God will give us someone else who also kept his covenants.

Only Heavenly Father can explain these things to us & give us a testimony about the truth of it all, if a person is really sincere & wants to know. I encourage you to study it out more.

I would encourage you to do likewise!!! You are not doing yourself any favors by building on sandy ground.....

You CANNOT live in the Celestial Kingdom without being obedient to the required principles.

There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

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That bodies who are of the celestial kingdom may possess it forever and ever; for, for this intent was it made and created, and for this intent are they sanctified.

And they who are not sanctified through the law which I have given unto you, even the law of Christ, must inherit another kingdom, even that of a terrestrial kingdom, or that of a telestial kingdom.

For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.

And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial glory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.

They who are of a celestial spirit shall receive the same body which was a natural body; even ye shall receive your bodies, and your glory shall be that glory by which your bodies are quickened.

Ye who are quickened by a portion of the celestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

And they who are quickened by a portion of the terrestrial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

And also they who are quickened by a portion of the telestial glory shall then receive of the same, even a fulness.

And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place, to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.

For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.

And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.

That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.

All kingdoms have a law given;

And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

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These are they who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.

For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared.

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It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance

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For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

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For if you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you.

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[shadow]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

I agree with you Amore so long as the wayward spouse repents, however long that takes.

[Silas]

If they repented then they wouldn't be unworthy anymore now would they?

[SpeedRacer]

Goodness gracious this got long fast.

My short 15 years of marriage comes down to one thing. Selfish vs. Selfless.

While President Monson came out loud and clear on the stand, Elder Scott backed him up and went further. He described an Eternal Marriage shared by he and his wife. I felt bad for him. Not for all his loss, but for the fact that short sighted people would take his talk as a story, and not see that he was sharing some of his most intimate and sacred experiences hoping that these young people would actually yearn for the same. He gave us a glimpse of what it is like in a home centered on Christ's love.

So like I started, selfish people endure a relationship or get a divorce, selfless people thrive, and humbly accept the responsibility that God will inevitable heap upon them. Things like Celestial Glory. Glory is short for the reward for a ton of work.

[tsc]

The sealing is also only valid if both people are worthy in the celestial kingdom. The sealing doesn't stick if one of them is not worthy to go to the celestial kingdom no matter how worthy the other spouse is.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

I agree with you Amore so long as the wayward spouse repents, however long that takes.

I think the example of Adam and Eve sets the course for this type of situation - Adam was not able to wait for Eve to repent so that she could possibly be allowed to remain in the Garden of Eden. He either would not follow her actions, and remain alone, or follow her, and be cast out, which of course he ultimately did.

Us getting into the celestial kingdom with our spouses will work the same way.

[Jason]

I'm sorry, but I do not believe that is true.

I agree with you Amore so long as the wayward spouse repents, however long that takes.

I think the example of Adam and Eve sets the course for this type of situation - Adam was not able to wait for Eve to repent so that she could possibly be allowed to remain in the Garden of Eden. He either would not follow her actions, and remain alone, or follow her, and be cast out, which of course he ultimately did.

Us getting into the celestial kingdom with our spouses will work the same way.

....once the probationary period is passed and we've hit the judgement seat.....until then there is opportunity to repent and reconcile ourselves (become obedient) to all of God's commandments!

[shadow]

If they repented then they wouldn't be unworthy anymore now would they?

That's right. The question is if the current worthy spouse has the patience to wait for the unworthy one to repent as he/she must do. Amore seems to have the patience and the willingness to forgive (if indeed her spouse is wayward). Good for her!