LDS Freedom Forum

Why didn't Elder Hales give a talk? Is he sick?

Deleted

NoGreaterLove wrote:...God has commanded us to find a mate and marry in the temple. What was said in conference comes from God, not man. So if that is considered pressure, then so be it.

Agreed 100%. I am a single never-married at almost 32, so I'd like to respond to this with excerpts from the debate occurring on my FB wall:

For all the "marrieds" out there who feel the prophet has given you ammo with which to criticize your single counterparts, there was just as much counsel and correction offered to married couples during conference... So get busy fixing your crappy marriages! Hopefully, I'll get to fix my own crappy marriage someday, or maybe, I'll just learn from all of your mistakes? Negative much? It's just a positive little defensive maneuver... All in good fun. Which came first the mote or the beam? (Answer: the chicken)

They say, if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who yelps is the one who got hit... Just sayin'. We love ya Mattctr, in all your single splendor!

‎"Yelp!" Correction, singledom has very little splendor in and of itself. Imagine walking through all of life's ups and downs with no one to love and no one to love you in return. "Yelp!"

Elsewhere, where a similar FB debate rages in which ALL single men were being derided by a pack of rabid wol...women, I responded in blue:

Gina: "Conference talks to COMFORT the AFFLICTED and AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE! Awesome!"

Gina, great application of that message. However, many men who really have options to choose from will brush it off and do their thing. Meanwhile, there are men who REALLY, TRULY have desired marriage and a family, and for one reason or another, have not had the same prospects/opportunities as others or have not been able to seal the deal.
Unfortunately, it is this latter group that tries (in their weakness), but has thus far been unsuccessful, that will feel the most "afflicted" by these words, while most of the comfortable will go on feeling comfortable. You might call it the "Afflicted who feel even more Afflicted" category.
To all the men who desire marriage while facing disadvantages like weakness, illness, ugliness/physical defects, red flags about earning potential, lack of education, red flags about lack of mission, learning/other disabilities, recovery from past mistakes, and a whole host of other traits YW leaders, well meaning church leaders, and society have brainwashed women into thinking are "deal breakers," I say "HOLD ON! KEEP TRYING! KEEP PRAYING & HOPING & SEARCHING!" When you feel life has passed you by and the Lord has abandoned you, be still and know that He is there and will bless you for your efforts. As Elder Holland has said, "Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some won't come until heaven, but for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come." Exercise your priesthood and engage yourself more fully in the work of the Lord, while seeking this most important blessing. Have faith that EVENTUALLY your efforts WILL yield fruit.

I spent Saturday night feeling dejected and hopeless about the whole situation, afflicted, if you will. Some men have truly suffered through no or little fault of their own, due to adversity, and my heart reaches out to them. I have one friend whose mental illness has kept him from marriage who became distraught and tried to take his life this weekend... He tries so hard, but women, probably wisely, reject him due to his illness.
Personally, I had to swallow the fact that my own choices have not always been what they ought to have been. I spent several years away from full activity in the church, which began following a long series of heartbreaks =(( and failed attempts to obey, and it has been a steady but slow climb back to become fully active and feel worthy again. Sadly, in recent attempts to date, my previous inactivity was given as the "red flag" reason for new rejections. Seems painfully cyclical. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

This emphasis, while personally momentarily discouraging, was inspired, and I hope the atonement is big enough to provide for me, if I continue to make attempts.

Scarecrow wrote:

Quiet Cricket wrote:Why didn't Elder Hales give a talk? Is he sick?

Not sure about his health, but I once did a study and found that typically each conference there will be one member of the Qof12 who will not speak. Not exactly sure why, but maybe it is just to give them a break.

He had oxygen and other medical stuff sitting with him on the stand, so it might be fair to assume he wasn't feeling up to it.
Sometimes you might see empty chairs, when a few of the apostles or seventies will sit and preside in other overflow areas around temple square.

1984Orwellherenow wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:You think they would wait for the collective mass of the members to wake up before they said anything different? Would kind of suck for those that have been striving to obey in all things for decades, eh?

The collective mass of the members in my ward are very collectively awake. You should attend church sometime and see this thing. Many, many, many awake people. Expecially when I talks. Do you wanna come and pray together?

=)) =)) =))

mattctr wrote:
Sometimes you might see empty chairs, when a few of the apostles or seventies will sit and preside in other overflow areas around temple square.

There are always at least 2 empty apostle chairs.

mattctr,

I feel prompted to share my own dating/courtship experiences. (this could get long.)

After I returned from my mission, I seriously was looking for my wife. I wasn't overly stressed about it, but I definitely was not a "play the field" type. Each girl that I dated was, in my opinion, a potential eternal companion. I will say that I had been prompted that I was to ask my wife to marry me in the celestial room - so I tended to date returned sister missionaries, since they were already endowed. I also dated girls who were not RMs. Dated various girls until I was about 25 - the vast majority weren't interested in getting married (at least to me.) they didn't mind dating, but were pretty clear that it was casual and jsut for fun and nothing would come of it. (Not that I was pushing getting married, I just tried to get to know them and see how things went.)

Around this time a girl that I had grown up with who was an RM moved into the area and we dated for a while. She was beautiful, smart, and we developed a close relationship. Of all the girls that I dated, she was the first one that I truly loved in the Agape sense. I think she felt the same way about me and we discussed marriage. My hopes were high, she seemed perfect. We decided to fast and pray about it.

The answer that we both received was "no". I called her up and we talked about it. I expected to be devastated, as I had been by being "kicked to the curb" by girls that I had cared far less about. We decided that since we had gotten a difintive answer that we probably should stop dating so that we could "move on" in our search for eternal companionship. (I'll admit, I still wanted to date, but I agreed with her that continuing to do so would just interfere with the objective that we both were after.)

After I hung up, I laid down on my bed expecting to have a good cry, and expecting to feel completely dejected for the next six months to a year. Of course at the time you feel that you will never recover. However, as I laid down on the bed I had possibly the most powerful spiritual experience of my life. I was completely filled with the love of our Heavenly Father, and the feeling that he was very pleased that I had had the strength to follow His prompting in opposition to what I personally wanted so very badly. I can honestly say that I have never felt such pure JOY (this includes my eventual marriage, the birth of my children, etc.) as I did in the few hours after breaking up with this wonderful girl.

Certainly in the following weeks I missed the friendship and companionship, and we did see each other a few times such as when a close relative of hers passed and she need comforting. So "letting go" still had it's difficulties. But I did move forward confident that the Lord had someone specific in mind for me.

I then met a girl at an institute dance that I could have married, and even felt prompted that she would be a good wife for me. She was physically anything I could hope for. She confided in me that she had been a porn actress, but had joined the church, fully repented, and wanted a temple marriage. This was a struggle for me but I accepted it. Although I was not ready to propose, I still felt like this would be a marriage that we would be blessed by Heavenly Father, and she very much wanted to get married. Also, her family was wealthy, and her father was dangling very good financial prospects for his future son-in-law (which didn't hurt.)

The thing that I was too weak to accept was when I found out that she had two children - one half black and the other I am not sure - I never met the kids. While I was glad that she had not had an abortion, which would have been a "deal breaker" for me, I struggled with this more than the fact of her past life. I could not see myself being a good father to those boys, I felt like I would always be resentful and they would be "ever present reminders" to me of her past. And frankly, there was an ego issue as well, I will admit that I was worried about feeling ashamed of them at, for instance, church meetings. In other words, I felt like I would be diminished and that certain members would always consider my wife "a whore".

I'll admit it, this was 100% a pride issue with me. I struggled with it but felt like it was something that I would never deal with properly so I broke things off.

Started dating another girl from the singles ward, honestly was not really physically attracted, but thought she was awesome and smart and thought she might be the one.

Then I met Barbara in martial arts class. Did something I had never done, which was to date more than one person at a time. After dating Barbara for a few months I broke things off with the other girl. I feel the need to defend myself a bit about dumping this other girl. I had never so much as kissed her, everything we had done dating was very casual and more getting to know each other. I did feel guilty about dumping her but I just felt like Barbara was the one and it wasn't right to continue seeing her.

I dated Barbara for a few months, she said that she felt like things were "not going where I thought they were going." bummer.

Then a month later I got the impression to call Barbara to just go our casually and have fun and no pressure. We started dating again, and within a few months she started warming to the idea of getting more serious. a month or two later we started attending the temple together. Interesting note: she was not a RM, but a couple of years before, her bishop had counselled her to take out her endowment, and a year before he had promised her that she would meet her future husband within a year.

About the third or fourth temple session we did, we were in the celestial room and I distinctly heard a voice say - "ask her to marry you - now." It was something I had thought about but had PLANNED on doing probably a few months later. I was hesitant to do it but I did go to one knee right there and asked her. She was shocked, and asked for a week. We returned a week later and I got the official answer (although I was pretty confident what it would be.) Married 4 months later, and 19th anniversary this coming June.

I guess the whole point is just be faithful, do the right thing, submit to the will of the Lord in everything and there will be a great outcome! I hope seeing some of the challenges I faced before marrying at 29 helps you as well.

Thank you for this post Mattctr, and also for the earlier one ( which you deleted )
Not being married at 32 is not a sign of not being worthy or attractive enough to be so. No one should feel pressured into having to get married whether one has found someone one wants to marry or not, or if the one you want does not feel the same. It is far better to be single and not having married than to marry for the wrong reasons and later be divorced or separated or to be living a nightmare with someone who you do not want to be with. A single life can be fulfilling and rewarding.

mattctr wrote:

NoGreaterLove wrote:...God has commanded us to find a mate and marry in the temple. What was said in conference comes from God, not man. So if that is considered pressure, then so be it.

Agreed 100%. I am a single never-married at almost 32, so I'd like to respond to this with excerpts from the debate occurring on my FB wall:

For all the "marrieds" out there who feel the prophet has given you ammo with which to criticize your single counterparts, there was just as much counsel and correction offered to married couples during conference... So get busy fixing your crappy marriages! Hopefully, I'll get to fix my own crappy marriage someday, or maybe, I'll just learn from all of your mistakes? Negative much? It's just a positive little defensive maneuver... All in good fun. Which came first the mote or the beam? (Answer: the chicken)

They say, if you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who yelps is the one who got hit... Just sayin'. We love ya Mattctr, in all your single splendor!

‎"Yelp!" Correction, singledom has very little splendor in and of itself. Imagine walking through all of life's ups and downs with no one to love and no one to love you in return. "Yelp!"

Elsewhere, where a similar FB debate rages in which ALL single men were being derided by a pack of rabid wol...women, I responded in blue:

Gina: "Conference talks to COMFORT the AFFLICTED and AFFLICT the COMFORTABLE! Awesome!"

Gina, great application of that message. However, many men who really have options to choose from will brush it off and do their thing. Meanwhile, there are men who REALLY, TRULY have desired marriage and a family, and for one reason or another, have not had the same prospects/opportunities as others or have not been able to seal the deal.
Unfortunately, it is this latter group that tries (in their weakness), but has thus far been unsuccessful, that will feel the most "afflicted" by these words, while most of the comfortable will go on feeling comfortable. You might call it the "Afflicted who feel even more Afflicted" category.
To all the men who desire marriage while facing disadvantages like weakness, illness, ugliness/physical defects, red flags about earning potential, lack of education, red flags about lack of mission, learning/other disabilities, recovery from past mistakes, and a whole host of other traits YW leaders, well meaning church leaders, and society have brainwashed women into thinking are "deal breakers," I say "HOLD ON! KEEP TRYING! KEEP PRAYING & HOPING & SEARCHING!" When you feel life has passed you by and the Lord has abandoned you, be still and know that He is there and will bless you for your efforts. As Elder Holland has said, "Some blessings come soon, some come late, and some won't come until heaven, but for those who embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, they come." Exercise your priesthood and engage yourself more fully in the work of the Lord, while seeking this most important blessing. Have faith that EVENTUALLY your efforts WILL yield fruit.

I spent Saturday night feeling dejected and hopeless about the whole situation, afflicted, if you will. Some men have truly suffered through no or little fault of their own, due to adversity, and my heart reaches out to them. I have one friend whose mental illness has kept him from marriage who became distraught and tried to take his life this weekend... He tries so hard, but women, probably wisely, reject him due to his illness.
Personally, I had to swallow the fact that my own choices have not always been what they ought to have been. I spent several years away from full activity in the church, which began following a long series of heartbreaks =(( and failed attempts to obey, and it has been a steady but slow climb back to become fully active and feel worthy again. Sadly, in recent attempts to date, my previous inactivity was given as the "red flag" reason for new rejections. Seems painfully cyclical. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

This emphasis, while personally momentarily discouraging, was inspired, and I hope the atonement is big enough to provide for me, if I continue to make attempts.

Not being married at 32 is not a sign of not being worthy or attractive enough to be so. No one should feel pressured into having to get married whether one has found someone one wants to marry or not, or if the one you want does not feel the same. It is far better to be single and not having married than to be divorced or separated or to be living a nightmare with someone who you do not want to be with.

The key in Pres. Monson's priesthood talk was "Choose wisely, one with whom you can truly be compatible."

Often easier said that done...

BrianM wrote:

mattctr wrote:Anybody know what congregation laughed at with Elder Eyring?

I was wondering the same thing. ??? :-\

I think what you're referring to is when Pres. Eyring was conducting, he got up after the choir sang Have I Done Any Good, and said something to the effect of, "I especially appreciate the choir singing that hymn!" with emphasis on "especially". He had a big, boyish grin when he said it, and the audience gave a good laugh. Earlier, when he'd given his address, he commented that was his favorite hymn.

Mattcr: I can't imagine the pain and frustration you are feeling right now! I think the key of the talks in general conference was that you are actively looking for a spouse. The Lord knows your heart. He knows that you have tried and been unsuccessful. He loves you and will bless you as you continue to seek an eternal companion.

Please don't allow discouragement to overtake you!

I would encourage you to fast this week and pray fervently that the Lord send you peace and direction in responding to the admonition given in conference.

I'll be praying for you.

I am reluctant to broach this subject, but did anybody hear a word about FREEDOM in Conference ? And I'm on about the kind of freedom that would come from abiding by constitutional principles in government, the freedom that a secret combinations is seeking to overthrow. At 73, I can still remember the General Conference talks on this subject as far back as 1960, and of course I've read those given much earlier.

Could it be that if Church leaders and members began talking once again about freedom, constitutional principles, and the secret combination working to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries , those latter-day gadiantons would attack the Church and take away our 501 status, and disrupt our missionary and building programs? Would they persuade gay couples to demand the right to be "sealed" in the temples and judges be found to decide in their favour?

Or might it be that Church members generally need to experience the results of our having been delinquent in those things?

My wife reminded me that mention was made about studying the scriptures. Maybe that's where we are to get the messages about freedom, the US Constitution, and warnings about secret combinations striving to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries.

lundbaek wrote:I am reluctant to broach this subject, but did anybody hear a word about FREEDOM in Conference ? And I'm on about the kind of freedom that would come from abiding by constitutional principles in government, the freedom that a secret combinations is seeking to overthrow. At 73, I can still remember the General Conference talks on this subject as far back as 1960, and of course I've read those given much earlier.

Could it be that if Church leaders and members began talking once again about freedom, constitutional principles, and the secret combination working to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations and countries , those latter-day gadiantons would attack the Church and take away our 501 status, and disrupt our missionary and building programs? Would they persuade gay couples to demand the right to be "sealed" in the temples and judges be found to decide in their favour?

Or might it be that Church members generally need to experience the results of our having been delinquent in those things?

My wife reminded me that mention was made about studying the scriptures. Maybe that's where we are to get the messages about freedom, the US Constitution, and warnings about secret combinations striving to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries.

I assume you are talking about political/economic freedom (since moral freedom was covered on most points - neglecting the ills of socialism).....If so.....at this point in time....what's the point????

Not everybody can connect the dots between political/economic freedom and moral freedom.

lundbaek wrote:Not everybody can connect the dots between political/economic freedom and moral freedom.

True....but you are complaining about lack of direction concerning the focus of individual efforts to bail water out of the Titanic (my impression from your post)....when the direction that was given is precisely what is needed at this point in time (individual life jackets).

It's pretty clear what the priorities are. I like the lifejacket analogy. My post was not a complaint. I am asking if I missed something, and what others' thoughts are on the omision of the topic.

lundbaek wrote:It's pretty clear what the priorities are. I like the lifejacket analogy. My post was not a complaint. I am asking if I missed something, and what others' thoughts are on the omision of the topic.

Rodger....and sorry for the personal inflections.

I watched Conference with much anticipation and curiosity. The usual - signs of the times, fulfillment of prophecy, what's next, etc. My take away was need for basics (life jackets)....and the continuing need to speak to the tares in hopes of wheat (or keep wheat from becoming tares - etc).

I hadn't realized it was the 75 year anniversary of the welfare program.....that was interesting. Palmoni Scrolls peg the establishment of Zion (implementation of the Law of Consecration) at the end of this year. Be interesting to see if they are on target....

Also curious about leadership's reaction and planning concerning Japan.....some was said but not much. A little more in the Special Report.....nice to have nuclear physicists on the council (Elder Scott).....not that the Lord can't provide far more insight and direction.

Zowieink wrote:Usually at General Conference I come away with a very uplifting feeling. Today, it just made me sad. Thinking how far we have to go, how the brethren are completely unprepared, and how soon the bloodshed and terrible things will start.
:-\

The Brethren are completely unprepared?????

I felt very impressed and uplifted from Conference and yet heard their warnings clearly. They have to do two things Warn and Comfort. I think they did a wonderful job (as always) balancing those and covering exactly what the Lord wants us to hear. I know they are prepared and well aware of the problems of the world and the problems to come. They are guiding our Church exactly the way the Lord is commanding them to, it is us that need to heed the words they say to be truly prepared.

bbrown wrote:You can ask yourself a few simple questions, as with anything taught by church leaders, to help you understand and accept (even learn to love and appreciate) doctrine:

1. Do you believe the Lord knows more than you?
2. Do you believe He reveals truth today?
3. Do you believe the Prophets and Apostles (and on down the road...) are His chosen spokesmen on the earth today?

If your answer to all three is yes, than there can be no argument and only rationalization. I suggest anyone thinking they need to teach or wake up the Lord's anointed thoroughly consider the above questions, and if your answers are in the affirmative, follow the Lord's commandments by faith and ask that He soften your heart to help you understand.

Catherine

AMEN

It all boils down to pride and humility. We must be submitting to Father's will. If we are truly submitting our will to Father we will heed the words of His mouth pieces on earth as if they were His words directly to us, for they are. If we reject those words, we are rejecting God's words, then we are not truly following Father and submitting to His will.

Rosabella wrote:

Zowieink wrote:Usually at General Conference I come away with a very uplifting feeling. Today, it just made me sad. Thinking how far we have to go, how the brethren are completely unprepared, and how soon the bloodshed and terrible things will start.
:-\

The Brethren are completely unprepared?????

I felt very impressed and uplifted from Conference and yet heard their warnings clearly. They have to do two things Warn and Comfort. I think they did a wonderful job (as always) balancing those and covering exactly what the Lord wants us to hear. I know they are prepared and well aware of the problems of the world and the problems to come. They are guiding our Church exactly the way the Lord is commanding them to, it is us that need to heed the words they say to be truly prepared.

Echo that - If anyone is unprepared....its the people!!!

"In every chain of reasoning, the evidence of the last conclusion can be no greater than that of the weakest link of the chain, whatever may be the strength of the rest."

Zowie and Rosie need to come to some agreement on the difference between the Brethren and the brethren. And probably the rest of us too.

lundbaek wrote:Zowie and Rosie need to come to some agreement on the difference between the Brethren and the brethren. And probably the rest of us too.

LOL....all in the subtleties!

Jason wrote:

lundbaek wrote:Not everybody can connect the dots between political/economic freedom and moral freedom.

True....but you are complaining about lack of direction concerning the focus of individual efforts to bail water out of the Titanic (my impression from your post)....when the direction that was given is precisely what is needed at this point in time (individual life jackets).

lunbaek, I also very much love those past general conference talks on Freedom, Constitution, etc... but I think Jason has a point here. Consider what President Benson said on multiple occasions:

Will we be prepared? Will we be among those who will “bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction”? If we desire to be numbered among those who will, here are some things we must do:

1. We must be righteous and moral. We must live the gospel principles-all of them. We have no right to expect a higher degree of morality from those who represent us than what we ourselves are. To live a higher law means we will not seek to receive what we have not earned by our own labor. It means we will remember that government owes us nothing. It means we will keep the laws of the land. It means we will look to God as our Lawgiver and the source of our liberty...

2. We must learn the principles of the Constitution and then abide by its precepts...
3. We must become involved in civic affairs. As citizens of this republic, we cannot do our duty and be idle spectators...
4. We must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, and our advice...

He always listed "being righteous" first. And as multiple prophets have stated: "righteousness exalteth a nation"... Perhaps recent messages from the prophets are a sign that the world, including the members of the church in general, have become too wicked, too complacent, too apathetic, too prideful, etc... and so the message right now is "you guys better shape up! Be righteous, read the Book of Mormon, start living the most basic principles of the Gospel"...

We still have a duty to stand up for Freedom, but it will do no good if we are wicked, Freedom only works for a righteous people. We must escape spiritual bondage (as Alma and his people when in captivity to the Lamanites) before the Lord will provide us a way out of physical/political bondage.

I hate to think that our general lack of righteousness is such that we cannot be distracted from the more basic principles of the Gospel, but perhaps the need for improvement in home/visiting teaching, charity, temple preparedness, temple attendance, tithing payment, faith and repentance is such that we really need to avoid the distractions of principles that have the potential of causing divisions among members.

Ok, I am not speaking of THE BRETHREN as in those we sustained on Sat. afternoon. I'm speaking to the generic male members of the church. The statistics in this area of Zion, where I live, generally show a vibrant positive strong membership. However, under the surface you find that 50 to 60 percent have had some encounters with porn, and that a good 25% are addicted. This doesn't mean they don't pay tithing, obey the word of wisdom, etc. It just means we, as brethren in the priesthood, need to buckle down and get to work. Look at the other statistics in the Church...say home teaching (maybe 35% worldwide?). How about tithing worthiness...say 50% on a good week?) Or how about even general attendence at sacrament meeting....what 40% these days? All I'm saying is that we men, as a group, need to step it up. For these and many other reasons, I say that the men of the priesthood, as a group, have a very long way to go in order to measure up to the challenges that are forthcoming.

Perhaps you all are happy to have your friends roast in the conflagrations that are coming. I am not. I see so much good in the world today, and I'm not talking about materialism but of the good nature of men in general. It is sad to me that we can only reach so many with the gospel, that the gospel light just won't make into every person' life. The Second Coming will be glorious beyond belief, but I am not looking forward to the pain and anguish of so many souls that will die in the process, many of them good people with good hearts. In all probability, most of my family may not survive to see the Second Coming. Some won't make it even to first base when things really start rockin' and rollin'.

So please don't misunderstand. Conference was inspirational. I'm only sad for those who won't make it through the tough times and that don't have the light of the gospel in their lives. And personally, I really don't relish living in a tent with the Chinese army at my door and herding me into a compound somewhere. Starvation, deprevation, loss of family, and hardships of all kinds...we will all have to live through these things, no matter how well prepared we are.

So while I am excited about the future and the glories that will be revealed, I am also scared to death about the trials and tribulations that await us.