LDS Freedom Forum

Janadele wrote:

Mahonri wrote:

Janadele wrote:There is too much expectation and pressure on singles to marry. No wonder the divorce rate is so high.

ya, obeying the commandments leads to divorce 8-|

Such an attitude as the above response from Mahonri is neither edifying nor appreciated. There is no escaping the facts of the high rate of divorce among the LDS, even of those married in the Temple.

LDS singles do not need the constant harassment they receive regarding their single status.

Finding the right companion is a serious matter, marrying just anyone who happens to be available just to succumb to the constant pressure to marry, or leaving the Church to escape the ribbing and comments, is far too often the result of this well meaning but undermining focus. It is beyond time that leaders and members realised this.

I think the leaders of the Church are trying to teach and help give direction from the Lord and much time and prayer goes into these talks. I heard no harrassment at all. I think our leaders are well aware of the fact that finding the right companion is a serious matter. Maybe it's just me but I've never heard any ribbing comments or constant harrassment in the church about ones single status.

You can ask yourself a few simple questions, as with anything taught by church leaders, to help you understand and accept (even learn to love and appreciate) doctrine:

1. Do you believe the Lord knows more than you?
2. Do you believe He reveals truth today?
3. Do you believe the Prophets and Apostles (and on down the road...) are His chosen spokesmen on the earth today?

If your answer to all three is yes, than there can be no argument and only rationalization. I suggest anyone thinking they need to teach or wake up the Lord's anointed thoroughly consider the above questions, and if your answers are in the affirmative, follow the Lord's commandments by faith and ask that He soften your heart to help you understand.

Catherine

And to get back on track:

Twice I was struck by the power with which the brethren counseled us about tithing and that following that commandment would bless us and more specifically, that it would save us from being burned.

Many young men needed to hear that message. I did not hear harrassment, I heard inspired counsel.

Having been a youn man, and also having associated with many as friends and associates, there is no question that many delay marriage FOR MANY YEARS so that they can extend the dating experience and the opportunity to "sample the affections" of many young women. I did not hear counsel to rush into marriage with the first person available, rather I heard counsel that diligence should be given to the serious matter of finding one with whom you can form the beginning of an eternal family - certainly care needs to be given that you are not "unequally yoked" and again, I heard no counsel encouraging rashness or recklessness in this important decision.

This was inpired counsel that was needed. As Elder Holland stated "If we speak by the spirit and you hear by the spirit...a revelatory missive WILL BE DELIVERED. (not exact words, the point being, why would you centend against a message clearly repeated which multiple individuals were prompted to speak?)

Original_Intent wrote:a message clearly repeated which multiple individuals were prompted to speak?)

I fear this may be an indicator of our religious freedoms being attacked to the point where we will be required to discontinue temple marriages by legal force (ie, the gay rights movement), and the eventual defilement of the temples.

I thought that Elder Scott's address was done with such tenderness. I certainly didn't get the impression that he was pressuring anyone. Rather, he was encouraging those, who for silly reasons were delaying marriage, not to do so because of the missed blessings.

And I thought Elder Holland's talk was so powerful. Surely all of these brethren were inspired! We need to listen with the Spirit. I find that if I'm critical of any of the talks, I'm the one with the problem. Elder Holland told us that not every talk was aimed at us, but that each of us had needs that were addressed in the talks, if we but listened.

I, for one, thought this was an exceptionally spiritual Conference.

Just a few thoughts I had during conference, Pres. Eyring spoke to the special projects that Bishops would be doing, and he told them to direct these aims at those who are of the kingdom and/or who have ears for the kingdom. I thought this kind of went along with the discont. of Activities Committee that was to invite all members of the community to participate in some activity. My thoughts were, "we're moving forward, hasten your work, and those who have ears will join you."

Elder Hollands talk was excellent, he quoted Isaiah, and Matt 24. Which, he said (to paraphrase) that we had all been taught by angels with a trump, that their message was of warning, and that the Lord would warn us with His voice of earthquakes, etc.

Excellent G.C. Fantastic to live in the true Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

And Elder Bednar's talk on revelation was great! It gave so much material for thought and discussion and teaching, expecially to the young.

Interesting words/phrases/thoughts heard or repeated in conference:

Great Depression, Hyperinflation, silver coins as money, self-reliance/sufficiency, preparation, testimony by destruction (God will be heard), charity/welfare/giving = consecration/united order > Zion, people as angels, single men are bad ( ( ) and should be married, married people are bad ( ) and should be better, Second Coming, more temples to come, etc...

Plus, "Conference Smile Kid" is getting a lot of attention online. Did you see him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfB6iQAIolk

President Monson, Elder Holland, Bedlamites, and ldsconf were all trending topics on twitter earlier today.

Anybody know what congregation laughed at with Elder Eyring?

mattctr wrote: Plus, "Conference Smile Kid" is getting a lot of attention online. Did you see him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfB6iQAIolk

=))

That''s going to be one famous kid.

mattctr wrote: Plus, "Conference Smile Kid" is getting a lot of attention online. Did you see him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfB6iQAIolk

LOL I saw this and had to rewind the DVR for my wife to also see. We did have a good laugh

mattctr wrote:Anybody know what congregation laughed at with Elder Eyring?

I was wondering the same thing. ??? :-\

Usually at General Conference I come away with a very uplifting feeling. Today, it just made me sad. Thinking how far we have to go, how the brethren are completely unprepared, and how soon the bloodshed and terrible things will start.

I feel sad for the human race, that's its in this condition and that the good things of this world must be destroyed (all the beautiful things we are capable of; art, music, dance, science, etc.) in order to be brought back during the millineum in a more perfect form. And all the people who must perish... Does anyone else have such feelings? :-\

mattctr wrote:Interesting words/phrases/thoughts heard or repeated in conference:

Great Depression, Hyperinflation, silver coins as money, self-reliance/sufficiency, preparation, testimony by destruction (God will be heard), charity/welfare/giving = consecration/united order > Zion, people as angels, single men are bad ( ( ) and should be married, married people are bad ( ) and should be better, Second Coming, more temples to come, etc...

Plus, "Conference Smile Kid" is getting a lot of attention online. Did you see him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfB6iQAIolk

President Monson, Elder Holland, Bedlamites, and ldsconf were all trending topics on twitter earlier today.

Anybody know what congregation laughed at with Elder Eyring?

Excellent review of the message they were trying to get across to those who have ears. One other important thing I'd like to add is that the the first talk of the conference on Sat. focused on one issue that Isaiah nailed Isreal (and us of the Latter Days) was Sabath Day observance. Isaiah also comdemed us for idolotry and not caring for the poor (again this was a prominent part of this conference).

Zowieink wrote:Usually at General Conference I come away with a very uplifting feeling. Today, it just made me sad. Thinking how far we have to go, how the brethren are completely unprepared, and how soon the bloodshed and terrible things will start.

I feel sad for the human race, that's its in this condition and that the good things of this world must be destroyed (all the beautiful things we are capable of; art, music, dance, science, etc.) in order to be brought back during the millineum in a more perfect form. And all the people who must perish... Does anyone else have such feelings? :-\

Nope, and I think destructions may be very soon. Everything they said, from the point of view of someone who is worried about these things, I felt assuaged. We are going to be guided by the Holy Ghost, and so we need out lights to shine. When we have the pain of affliction, we use it to purify ourselves. When our homes are gone, we help others with their disasters. The Isaiah stuff is right on the money. What did ancient Ephraim suffer from:

1. Materialism, lack of alms and tithes
2. Lack of Sabbath Observance
3. Lusts of the Flesh
4. Carnal Security

These things were all touched on. Why don't they warn more about what's coming. It's through my studies, particularly in Isaiah, that they are not supposed to. Their mouths have been shut. It confirmed an opinion I have had on this, but Isaiah prophesies that in the last days, the prophets would be silent about these things right before things get really bad. They may telegraph through stories and parables, and those that have ears will hear, but those that don't will just go on feeling good doing their conference "thing" as if it's just a tradition.

pjbrownie wrote:

Zowieink wrote:Usually at General Conference I come away with a very uplifting feeling. Today, it just made me sad. Thinking how far we have to go, how the brethren are completely unprepared, and how soon the bloodshed and terrible things will start.

I feel sad for the human race, that's its in this condition and that the good things of this world must be destroyed (all the beautiful things we are capable of; art, music, dance, science, etc.) in order to be brought back during the millineum in a more perfect form. And all the people who must perish... Does anyone else have such feelings? :-\

Nope, and I think destructions may be very soon. Everything they said, from the point of view of someone who is worried about these things, I felt assuaged. We are going to be guided by the Holy Ghost, and so we need out lights to shine. When we have the pain of affliction, we use it to purify ourselves. When our homes are gone, we help others with their disasters. The Isaiah stuff is right on the money. What did ancient Ephraim suffer from:

1. Materialism, lack of alms and tithes
2. Lack of Sabbath Observance
3. Lusts of the Flesh
4. Carnal Security

These things were all touched on. Why don't they warn more about what's coming. It's through my studies, particularly in Isaiah, that they are not supposed to. Their mouths have been shut. It confirmed an opinion I have had on this, but Isaiah prophesies that in the last days, the prophets would be silent about these things right before things get really bad. They may telegraph through stories and parables, and those that have ears will hear, but those that don't will just go on feeling good doing their conference "thing" as if it's just a tradition.

How's about this for a type PJ? Pres. Monson spoke of the Rome temple in his address Sunday morning and he referenced that the temple stands in the place where Peter and Paul were both martyred as witnesses for Christ. Lets see now. Two witnesses of Christ martyred and soon the Temple will stand in that place. If he would have mentioned anything about Jerusalem in that same paragraph I would have freaked out. )

Gideon wrote:

pjbrownie wrote:
Babylon needs to go if we are start living the way we should.

It will be a great day when Babylon is fully gone, but can we really afford to wait that long before we live as we should?

Therefore, let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest is fully ripe; then ye shall first gather out the wheat from among the tares, and after the gathering of the wheat, behold and lo, the tares are bound in bundles, and the field remaineth to be burned.
(D&C 86:7)

If a rich man waits for Babylon to depart before he lives as he should:

Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!
(D&C 56:16)

How much can our faith grow in a world without great opposition?

And I would submit that a "rich man" is someone who has the ordinances of the Gospel.

How about the Temple in Rome that Pres Monson talked about breifly in the morning session?

Janadele wrote:

Mahonri wrote:

Janadele wrote:There is too much expectation and pressure on singles to marry. No wonder the divorce rate is so high.

ya, obeying the commandments leads to divorce 8-|

Such an attitude as the above response from Mahonri is neither edifying nor appreciated. There is no escaping the facts of the high rate of divorce among the LDS, even of those married in the Temple.

LDS singles do not need the constant harassment they receive regarding their single status.

Finding the right companion is a serious matter, marrying just anyone who happens to be available just to succumb to the constant pressure to marry, or leaving the Church to escape the ribbing and comments, is far too often the result of this well meaning but undermining focus. It is beyond time that leaders and members realised this.

Sorry Jan but I do not agree with you on this one. It sounds like you may have experienced bad pressures in your life, but that is not the constant among the saints. God has commanded us to find a mate and marry in the temple. What was said in conference comes from God, not man. So if that is considered pressure, then so be it.

It was not the mentions at conference I was referring to as pressure No Greater Love, though they will further encourage the prevalent demoralising attitude to singles in day to day and Church activities, and the strain this is for a single person who has not found the person they would want to marry.

I personally know of a number who have left the Church because of this constant badgering, and others who do not attend as regularly as they would have done otherwise. Members need to be more sensitive to the feelings of others.

demoralising attitude to singles in day to day and Church activities

I am sorry you have experienced this. I have never felt it either single or heard it as a married man. This is the first time I have heard someone express this. Not saying it does not happen.

NoGreaterLove wrote:

Gideon wrote:

pjbrownie wrote:
Babylon needs to go if we are start living the way we should.

It will be a great day when Babylon is fully gone, but can we really afford to wait that long before we live as we should?

Therefore, let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest is fully ripe; then ye shall first gather out the wheat from among the tares, and after the gathering of the wheat, behold and lo, the tares are bound in bundles, and the field remaineth to be burned.
(D&C 86:7)

If a rich man waits for Babylon to depart before he lives as he should:

Wo unto you rich men, that will not give your substance to the poor, for your riches will canker your souls; and this shall be your lamentation in the day of visitation, and of judgment, and of indignation: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and my soul is not saved!
(D&C 56:16)

How much can our faith grow in a world without great opposition?

And I would submit that a "rich man" is someone who has the ordinances of the Gospel.

most of what you have posted regarding conference, I have wholeheartedly agreed with, ho9wever, in this case I believe you are mistaken, looking for symbolism when the literal meaning is clear. Elsewhere in comments about conference someone (I think you?) quoted scripture that spelled out who the tares were that drank of the wine of the fornication of the whore...it's the same people and very clear, in my opinion.

Here is the quote you posted that I am referring to:

D&C 88
92 And angels shall fly through the midst of heaven, crying with a loud voice, sounding the trump of God, saying: Prepare ye, prepare ye, O inhabitants of the earth; for the judgment of our God is come. Behold, and lo, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

93 And immediately there shall appear a agreat sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.

94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That agreat bchurch, the cmother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her dfornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the ftares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.

95And there shall be silence in bheaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled.

Songbird wrote:I just want to remind you all that Elder M Russell Ballard said at a Stake Conference not less than a month ago that the Saints will NOT be "hearing" anything "new" until they start living the things that they have been told already.

I would like to believe this. Just want does this mean? 90% tithe paying? Temple attendance is doubled? 90% home teaching by all the world? This is a statement that only a huge paradigm shift in the members attitude toward God would have to take place. In fact I believe we are in this stage of time where nothing will change until the cleansing of America starts. I understand by the warnings of the GAs that in fact persecution is on its way. And the type of persecution that I am hear is worse than in Old Missouri and Navou. Ehmmm they were thrown out of their houses and murdered. I don't see much worse than that.

In any case, we are not prepared for any new (higher) laws and will not be until the cleansing of America and the church. The more righteous will gather together and in this hardship our old ways of life will be striped from us and we will learn a new way of life. Every aspect of life will change. No one who gathers and still wants to support the old Babylon way of doing things will be gathering in my mind. Only those that are open to change and are willing to follow the prophet. This time of hardship will be used as a preparation time for us to see the Savior. Just like Moses tried to prepare the Israelite s to see him we will be preparing to see him our selves. So for now the message will be strength your testimony in the Savior or the time will come when it not be a preparation time but a time to act.

Original_Intent wrote:You think they would wait for the collective mass of the members to wake up before they said anything different? Would kind of suck for those that have been striving to obey in all things for decades, eh?

The collective mass of the members in my ward are very collectively awake. You should attend church sometime and see this thing. Many, many, many awake people. Expecially when I talks. Do you wanna come and pray together?

sbsion wrote:light is only available to those who can precieve it, and can only come from one who has it

+1