LDS Freedom Forum

BrianM wrote:

Jason wrote:

lundbaek wrote:Not everybody can connect the dots between political/economic freedom and moral freedom.

True....but you are complaining about lack of direction concerning the focus of individual efforts to bail water out of the Titanic (my impression from your post)....when the direction that was given is precisely what is needed at this point in time (individual life jackets).

lunbaek, I also very much love those past general conference talks on Freedom, Constitution, etc... but I think Jason has a point here. Consider what President Benson said on multiple occasions:

Will we be prepared? Will we be among those who will “bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction”? If we desire to be numbered among those who will, here are some things we must do:

1. We must be righteous and moral. We must live the gospel principles-all of them. We have no right to expect a higher degree of morality from those who represent us than what we ourselves are. To live a higher law means we will not seek to receive what we have not earned by our own labor. It means we will remember that government owes us nothing. It means we will keep the laws of the land. It means we will look to God as our Lawgiver and the source of our liberty...

2. We must learn the principles of the Constitution and then abide by its precepts...
3. We must become involved in civic affairs. As citizens of this republic, we cannot do our duty and be idle spectators...
4. We must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, and our advice...

He always listed "being righteous" first. And as multiple prophets have stated: "righteousness exalteth a nation"... Perhaps recent messages from the prophets are a sign that the world, including the members of the church in general, have become too wicked, too complacent, too apathetic, too prideful, etc... and so the message right now is "you guys better shape up! Be righteous, read the Book of Mormon, start living the most basic principles of the Gospel"...

We still have a duty to stand up for Freedom, but it will do no good if we are wicked, Freedom only works for a righteous people. We must escape spiritual bondage (as Alma and his people when in captivity to the Lamanites) before the Lord will provide us a way out of physical/political bondage.

+1

.

Perhaps you all are happy to have your friends roast in the conflagrations that are coming. I am not. I see so much good in the world today, and I'm not talking about materialism but of the good nature of men in general. It is sad to me that we can only reach so many with the gospel, that the gospel light just won't make into every person' life. The Second Coming will be glorious beyond belief, but I am not looking forward to the pain and anguish of so many souls that will die in the process, many of them good people with good hearts. In all probability, most of my family may not survive to see the Second Coming. Some won't make it even to first base when things really start rockin' and rollin'.

The good-hearted people you speak of would be considered Terrestial level, so long as they are not committing Telestial sins (particularly immorality) - as such. they would also be caught up to meet the Saviour when He comes in glory. Sadly, they may not have the spiritual fortitude to endure the trials before hand, or the ability to hear and heed the promptings of the Spirit to change course quickly...but as also pointed out, so many in the Church are also weak in these things.


What struck me was that all 3 members of the First Presidency spoke in Priesthood session hitting on how far below our rights and privileges of the Priesthood is where a great amount of the men are currently living, and not living up to their priesthood potential.

Zowieink wrote:Ok, I am not speaking of THE BRETHREN as in those we sustained on Sat. afternoon. I'm speaking to the generic male members of the church. The statistics in this area of Zion, where I live, generally show a vibrant positive strong membership. However, under the surface you find that 50 to 60 percent have had some encounters with porn, and that a good 25% are addicted. This doesn't mean they don't pay tithing, obey the word of wisdom, etc. It just means we, as brethren in the priesthood, need to buckle down and get to work. Look at the other statistics in the Church...say home teaching (maybe 35% worldwide?). How about tithing worthiness...say 50% on a good week?) Or how about even general attendence at sacrament meeting....what 40% these days? All I'm saying is that we men, as a group, need to step it up. For these and many other reasons, I say that the men of the priesthood, as a group, have a very long way to go in order to measure up to the challenges that are forthcoming.

Perhaps you all are happy to have your friends roast in the conflagrations that are coming. I am not. I see so much good in the world today, and I'm not talking about materialism but of the good nature of men in general. It is sad to me that we can only reach so many with the gospel, that the gospel light just won't make into every person' life. The Second Coming will be glorious beyond belief, but I am not looking forward to the pain and anguish of so many souls that will die in the process, many of them good people with good hearts. In all probability, most of my family may not survive to see the Second Coming. Some won't make it even to first base when things really start rockin' and rollin'.

So please don't misunderstand. Conference was inspirational. I'm only sad for those who won't make it through the tough times and that don't have the light of the gospel in their lives. And personally, I really don't relish living in a tent with the Chinese army at my door and herding me into a compound somewhere. Starvation, deprevation, loss of family, and hardships of all kinds...we will all have to live through these things, no matter how well prepared we are.

So while I am excited about the future and the glories that will be revealed, I am also scared to death about the trials and tribulations that await us.

The church leaders seem to agree with you on the preparedness of the general brethren of the church. I have also felt a sense of distress in the past for my loved ones who are so incredibly unprepared and who will be shocked and frightened by the coming destruction. All righteous people have to carry this burden of sorrow for the wickedness of others. However, the Lord has assured me through His Spirit, that all will be well with my family in the end.

I have learned much on the principles of justice this past while and am greatly comforted by them. We can find peace in the fact that all things will be made right in the end. Any injustice suffered in this life will be righted in the next. That idea didn't always comfort me, because I didn't always want to wait for the next life, but I am now convinced that the promised blessings will be glorious and will truly make up for all the pains suffered by myself and my loved ones in this life.

Might I put a plug in for missionary work? If we truly want to save our freedoms, it should be one of our first priorities. I have begun to see things in a new light. It is my job to find investigators for the missionaries to teach. It is my job to encourage the other members to find investigators for them to teach. It is my job to seek the inactive and less active members and encourage them in their faith. It is my job to help young men and women prepare for missionary service. All things in wisdom and order, of course. As I've made these my personal priorities, the Lord has blessed me with ways to overcome my personal weaknesses so I can succeed.

If the brethren are truly expecting many new converts in the next short while, it will only be because the membership steps up to the plate and does their job. We are the ones who make the difference, who draw people to seek the missionaries or draw members to further seek the Lord. When we're busy doing this, we don't have as much time to feel sad about the state of those around us.

Zowieink wrote:Ok, I am not speaking of THE BRETHREN as in those we sustained on Sat. afternoon. I'm speaking to the generic male members of the church. The statistics in this area of Zion, where I live, generally show a vibrant positive strong membership. However, under the surface you find that 50 to 60 percent have had some encounters with porn, and that a good 25% are addicted. This doesn't mean they don't pay tithing, obey the word of wisdom, etc. It just means we, as brethren in the priesthood, need to buckle down and get to work. Look at the other statistics in the Church...say home teaching (maybe 35% worldwide?). How about tithing worthiness...say 50% on a good week?) Or how about even general attendence at sacrament meeting....what 40% these days? All I'm saying is that we men, as a group, need to step it up. For these and many other reasons, I say that the men of the priesthood, as a group, have a very long way to go in order to measure up to the challenges that are forthcoming.

Perhaps you all are happy to have your friends roast in the conflagrations that are coming. I am not. I see so much good in the world today, and I'm not talking about materialism but of the good nature of men in general. It is sad to me that we can only reach so many with the gospel, that the gospel light just won't make into every person' life. The Second Coming will be glorious beyond belief, but I am not looking forward to the pain and anguish of so many souls that will die in the process, many of them good people with good hearts. In all probability, most of my family may not survive to see the Second Coming. Some won't make it even to first base when things really start rockin' and rollin'.

So please don't misunderstand. Conference was inspirational. I'm only sad for those who won't make it through the tough times and that don't have the light of the gospel in their lives. And personally, I really don't relish living in a tent with the Chinese army at my door and herding me into a compound somewhere. Starvation, deprevation, loss of family, and hardships of all kinds...we will all have to live through these things, no matter how well prepared we are.

So while I am excited about the future and the glories that will be revealed, I am also scared to death about the trials and tribulations that await us.

Thanks for the clarification, sorry for misinterpreting it. When I hear Brethren and Conference my mind immediately thinks GAs. Sorry to have misunderstood what you said. To me, in my personal use of words I would say "members" and not brethren because not only are the men not prepared but the women are not prepared either. Therefore members is the term I would have related to the most in discussing who is not prepared, yet I understand what you were trying to say now. Thanks again for the clarification. Sorry for the misunderstanding

I feel the same why you do in regards to the future tribulations. I do not look forward to see the suffering of anyone. I also realize that the suffering will not just be on the wicked (who I still feel sorry for) but also wonderful people will suffer including many that I personally know and love. Staying faithful, obedient, submitting to the Lord and enduring to the end will be harder then I think ANY of us can imagine. We will lose wonderful people spirituality and many physically. It will be a time of great sorrow as we have been told. Yet we know that this life is only temporary and the eternal perspective is what we need to keep our eye on. If we keep our eye single to the Glory of God regardless if we live or die we have endured to the end. If we live through these last-days and see the the miracles and then finally the Second Coming what a great honor that will be. For me it does not matter to me if I am taken early or my life preserved for I know either way will be the will of the Lord.

Rosabella, thanks. You have put it very nicely. I'm not that great with words. The coming events will test men's (and women's) souls. I wonder about those that say they can live in an isolated area and pass through all the events of the future. I believe we will all be tested in order to become gold in HIS hands, and it doesn't matter where you live.

Nevertheless, Heavenly Father IS in control. Only our outstanding righteousness will allow us a glimpse into the future, and many, such as Wilford Woodruff asked the Lord to shut it up because it was so terrible. I do not look forward to this, yet I will not shirk either.

Conference was a beautiful experience, but also much more forthright than it has been in the past. The GAs are becoming explicit, and that's what we need. I'm sure their words will become much more black and white and much less gray.

Zowieink wrote:Rosabella, thanks. You have put it very nicely. I'm not that great with words. The coming events will test men's (and women's) souls. I wonder about those that say they can live in an isolated area and pass through all the events of the future. I believe we will all be tested in order to become gold in HIS hands, and it doesn't matter where you live.

Nevertheless, Heavenly Father IS in control. Only our outstanding righteousness will allow us a glimpse into the future, and many, such as Wilford Woodruff asked the Lord to shut it up because it was so terrible. I do not look forward to this, yet I will not shirk either.

Conference was a beautiful experience, but also much more forthright than it has been in the past. The GAs are becoming explicit, and that's what we need. I'm sure their words will become much more black and white and much less gray.

I completely agree with you my brother! I have never felt, or at least personally felt the G.A's being so forward and to the point... Elder Holland's talk about the Trump being sounded gave me chills...I know what it means... I feel it is what it is... and we must prepare...

Original_Intent wrote:mattctr,
I feel prompted to share my own dating/courtship experiences. (this could get long.) ... I guess the whole point is just be faithful, do the right thing, submit to the will of the Lord in everything and there will be a great outcome! I hope seeing some of the challenges I faced before marrying at 29 helps you as well.

Thanks, OI, for taking the time to write your inspiring story for me. It means a lot, and it is a testament of who you are and to the goodness you strive to represent. I've read it a couple of times today, as doubts and emotions have tried to creep in. There are several parallels between your experiences and some of my own. Of course, there are differences, as well, but I was touched by your willingness to share your story. I have been helped by it. May you be blessed for your kindness!

loquaciousmomma wrote:I would encourage you to fast this week and pray fervently that the Lord send you peace and direction in responding to the admonition given in conference.
I'll be praying for you.

Thanks, loquaciousmomma, for your great suggestion and prayers.

Janadele wrote:Not being married at 32 is not a sign of not being worthy or attractive enough to be so.

:ymsigh: Janadele, I wish this statement were true in my case, but I sure do appreciate your attempt to console me. I'm glad you're back and adding to various discussions.

ALL: I'm sorry to detract from the discussion by bringing my personal situation into it, but I am grateful for your kind responses and encouragement. The prophet and several apostles have spoken. The truth in their words rings loud and clear. The Spirit testifies of their message, and it is now up to me and others in my boat to respond accordingly and with faith that the Lord can direct things for our good.

To those of you who are wondering why there is no mention of secret combinations, the wickedness around us, defending the constitution, gathering together for defense,----the answer is in the thread, "Quotes to remember for conference. Sometimes I think there are some who do not want to know the answer.


Believer

My adult life I have been single many more years then married. So I feel I understand the pain of those that are single. While people all around me were getting married I was not. I dated A LOT of people but it was very hard to find someone that was compatible.

Since love and marriage is a very emotional issue I think sometimes when the GAs or Bishops etc. talk about singles needing to get marriage some feel like "I am doing all I can!" Finding our eternal companion is what we are supposed to put first. Some do not put that first in their life so they need a firm reminder. We must remember that the GAs are talking to ALL singles. If one is really trying to find a spouse and doing all they can, there is nothing more expected. If, though, they are procrastinating marriage because of worldly things, that is different.

I found many singles had too high expectations of a spouse and focused on their check list of things they wanted, yet spent little time improving themselves to be the kind of person that their ideal spouse would desire. The best advice I heard from a talk for singles once was to become the kind of person you are looking for and to put your effort into that, then that kind of person will be attracted to you. I am not talking about just all the physical shallow stuff. I mean the deep-soul character.

There is great pressure spoken or unspoken to be married in the LDS Church, but that is not a bad thing. Marriage is a Holy estate, and one that brings much joy. So we should be encouraged to participate in this great experience. The world though is telling us differently, so it is the Church's responsibility to take a strong stand for marriage.

I have a dear friend that is 44 and she never has married. She is a wonderful person and would make a man a wonderful wife, but she is looked over because she has some physical difficulties (even by men with physical difficulties themselves). It saddens me to see her dreams of having a family drift away. In her situation I feel that there are plenty of men that she would be a wonderful wife to, but they have a fantasy in mind of their ideal wife, who does not exist. This goes both ways, women do that too. We need to realize no one is perfect, we all are flawed, we just need to find the person that loves us in spite of or even because of our particular flaws or weaknesses and us them I had a friend tell me once how they did not want to marry someone perfect because they were not perfect, I think that was quite wise. They wanted to marry someone that would be willing to try to become perfect together.

My heart goes out to those that are struggling with being single. I know the loneliness and the pain and even the fear of making a wrong choice. To truly have joy we have to have to have pain also. It is hard to take that risk, to get out there and take the chance of rejection, or heartbreak, or even divorce, but I testify it is worth it. If it is fear that is holding one back from marriage one has to replace that with faith. If one is too picky we need to really look inside ourselves and see if we are that kind of person we are looking for. There are so many reasons why people are single, we cannot be offended by talks from the GAs for they are trying to cover all the different kinds of situations that exist, not just ours. Elder Holland really clarified that in his talk.

Praying and letting go of one's own will I found to be the best way to find a companion. I did all I could do and was asked to do but then I let go and let God assist me.

I completely understand the idea of being single is better than being in a bad marriage. That is why we must make the right choice and have God also assist and confirm. This choice I found had to be between me and God and not just me and my potential husband. I prayed to know if each person I dated was the right one or better said the "right kind of man" that would make a good companion. I would get clear impressions because I let go of my own will and my own expectations. Originally I had a check list and then I mentally threw it out and instead asked the Lord for His check list. In doing that I found someone that surpassed my original check list.

I think we are in a time when we may receive more pressure to marry because time is of the essence. I think the GAs do not want us alone during these last days, but to have the support of a family unit to help give us a firmer foundation. It may become harder to find a companion during tribulations. I have never heard them say to just pick anyone, but to pick very carefully, yet do not procrastinate this for the wrong reasons.

May God bless those that are single and struggling with His wisdom, and His strength to follow His will whatever that may be. If it is to find their companion in this life regardless how long it takes or if not I pray that they have the peace and assurance to know that God has not forsaken them and they will have those blessings if not in this life then the next.

The same goes for those that find themselves single after being married, there is hope after divorce. The Lord will sustain you if you allow Him to by seeking His will in all things.

May the Lord be with you

As performed at LDS General Conference on Saturday. http://fb.me/Hk5MAMBY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

audio of "The Spirit of God" from LDS General Conference. http://fb.me/vGAY9gut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://lds.org/general-conference/musi ... ail-shared" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Spirit of God http://fb.me/HLemjcdi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Spirit of God Video

https://lds.org/general-conference/musi ... edia=video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zowieink wrote:Rosabella, thanks. You have put it very nicely. I'm not that great with words.

Thanks, though I think you are great with words yourself, I am just obviously not great at reading them! LOL

Renee wrote:

Palmoni Scrolls peg the establishment of Zion (implementation of the Law of Consecration) at the end of this year. Be interesting to see if they are on target....

Jason, what are these 'Palmoni scrolls'?

Several threads on them here....but here are the websites (last one is probably the best viewing them through Gigapan) -
http://www.ldspalmoni.com/Angel_Palmoni/Welcome.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ldspalmoni.com/Angel_Palmoni/QA_Scrolls.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://scripturalsecrets.blogspot.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....and this one will get to the heart of it -
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/70656/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

....with these as supporting material -
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69352/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69425/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69419/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69467/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69478/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69584/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/69915/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gigapan.org/gigapans/fullscreen/70655/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you Rosabella....

i too echo the importance of "choosing wisely"...and what can come about from not choosing wisely, as well as not being worthy in your dating....if is so easy to sell yourself short, or to settle...don't ever let desperation, fear, or physical or emotional needs and desires get the upper hand....

Janadele wrote:Thank you Rosabella many will find your post inspiring.

Indeed Sisters. If the Lord ever decides to re-instate polygamy the LDSFF will be one of the first stops I make on the road to multiple marital bliss. )

Mark wrote:

Janadele wrote:Thank you Rosabella many will find your post inspiring.

Indeed Sisters. If the Lord ever decides to re-instate polygamy the LDSFF will be one of the first stops I make on the road to multiple marital bliss. )

You are an idiot.

And I say that with love and affection :ymhug:

reese wrote:

Mark wrote:

Janadele wrote:Thank you Rosabella many will find your post inspiring.

Indeed Sisters. If the Lord ever decides to re-instate polygamy the LDSFF will be one of the first stops I make on the road to multiple marital bliss. )

You are an idiot.

And I say that with love and affection :ymhug:

=)) Taken as such.

reese wrote:

Mark wrote:

Janadele wrote:Thank you Rosabella many will find your post inspiring.

Indeed Sisters. If the Lord ever decides to re-instate polygamy the LDSFF will be one of the first stops I make on the road to multiple marital bliss. )

You are an idiot.

And I say that with love and affection :ymhug:

You are more right then you know ,reese. Take a look at typical Family Home Evening activity in Mark's family:

So Mazal, which one is Mark......the one with the really curly, short hair, with the pink headband?

reese wrote:So Mazal, which one is Mark......the one with the really curly, short hair, with the pink headband?

Nothing gets pass you

Sweet vid Mazal. I only wish I had been able to attend the filming with my chainsaw.

patriotsaint wrote:Sweet vid Mazal. I only wish I had been able to attend the filming with my chainsaw.

=)) :ymdevil:

I have been debating for a while now on whether or not to create this post. However, I finally felt it was a good thing to do. I had the opportunity to re-listen to the April conference a couple of times and took simple notes as I listened. I have also read other threads that discussed whether or not the Brethren are providing us with what we need for the upcoming trials. After re-reading my list of quick notes on each conference talk, I have to disagree that they are not telling us what we need to know. Although they may not be testifying of the corruption, conspiracies, etc. in the world today, they are giving us (and people around the world) what we need to survive the journeys our lives take be, it the trials and tribulations of the last days or a more personal experience.

I did not include the speakers as I wanted to focus mainly on the message of their talks and what it meant to me.

1. 3 new temples announced; humanitarian efforts in the latest disasters
2. Keep the Sabbath Day holy; study New Testament, it should be central to our lives as the Savior should be central to our lives
3. Children are examples of faith
4. Following Christ through difficulties ahead, it may mean sacrificing everything as Ruth
5. Pain is for our benefit and is a gauge of the healing process and teaches us patience, faith, fortitude, and humility
6. LDS women are incredible and divinely blessed
7. Welfare system and service for fellow man; take the opportunities offered to serve
8. We are Christians; everyone is tested; if you are carrying some burden, forget it, leave it alone
9. Do not let your fears displace your faith; one can combat fears by strengthening faith; difficult days are ahead, press forward with faith
10. Strengthen your family; get married; establish a Christ-centered home
11. Testimonies need care; gain and retain a testimony of Jesus Christ
12. Desires dictate our priorities, our priorities shape our choices, our choices determine our actions; desire, labor, faith; readjust our priority to focus on celestial desires
13. Try to keep our lives simple; focus on what matters most; Love thy God with all thine heart and love thy neighbor as thyself; Charity is like small flecks of gold
14. Preparing for the 2nd coming; missionary work
15. Hope and work; many hopes have been dashed or unfulfilled because of laziness and no work; spiritual challenges of today require no more faith than previous
16. Presidency of the priesthood
17. Are we living below our privileges as priesthood holders?; become an expert in your field and the doctorines of the gospel
18. Worthiness required to use the power of the priesthood; choose your love, love your choice
19. People are waiting to be compelled to believe; we should not wait on the road to Damascus; let us be the ones that the Lord can rely on; service, missionary work, move forward with faith, hope, charity
20. Earth life contains test, trials, and tribulations; vitally important to putting on our divine nature; marvelous blessings usually come on the heels of great trials
21. Welfare; self reliance; distinguishing between needs and wants
22. Love God and neighbors; serve one another; welfare, self reliance
23. Spirit of revelation and patterns of revelations; gradual (like the sunrise) or instantaneous (like a light switched on)
24. Welfare, blessings of the temple
25. Family and sealing ordinances; get married, marriage is wonderful
26. Our Heavenly Father is a God of high expectations; work to become; willingly accept and seek correction/chastening
27. Be honest; pay tithing of firstlings of income, be it great or small; pay it first, pay it honestly
28. Be as Christ; To Be or Not to Be; things we do and need to be
29. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; members of the church who live the gospel and follow the council of the prophets will, little by little, be sanctified
30. The eternal gift of the Atonement; repentance
31. Conference testifies to everyone; the path is narrow; God will have his voice heard; every sermon given at Conference is a testimony of love and warning
32. Be good citizens, neighbors, and examples to others

My take on what was talked about in conference:
Of the 32 talks I made notes on, 24 talks included faith and strengthening our faith; 8 were about service and helping our fellow man; 7 included trials and tribulations in this life (and the faith needed to overcome them); 3 were about the priesthood, its power and the worthiness for that power; and 3 discussed marriage and families, especially the women and children. Many of the talks covered more than one topic, thus the total does not equal 32.

To me, the focus of the Brethren is on building our faith to be able to withstand upcoming difficulties, strengthening our relationships with our fellow man and our families in order to help each other through whatever trials and tribulations come our way, and being worthy to wield/use the priesthood in any capacity that is asked of us.

That's an awesome list! Thanks for posting.