LDS Freedom Forum

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I thought this was a well written post on good defenses against possible economic collapse in America. It goes over the merits of each type of response: nothing; beg/barter/steal; organized raiding; banding; bugout/hide/compound; wilderness isolation/survival.

The part I liked the most in this post was his description of the benefits of banding together as a religious group. Although not everyone in the religious group will have food storage and resources, there are other benefits. 1. Accepted Leadership and Organization (less to fight about) 2. Accepted Rules (less to fight about) 3. Strength in Numbers.

According to the post, the problem with trying to stay in your home alone would be trying to defend your food storage from the endless onslaught of brigands, pirates, looters and raiders. You cannot possibly hold them off forever. Even in a rural area, the bands of raiders will eventually find you and any small group would be easy pickings. However, if an LDS group banded together, combined resources, and turned the church building into a shelter, then looters and raiders may think twice about attacking the group. thinking about it, what good is having food storage if it can so easily be stolen?

I was hoping 1. looters wouldn't want storage wheat. 2. FEMA would get hungry people get on trains toward emergency food distribution centers away from my location.

That said, there is a weakness to the post. While the post addresses an appropriate response to financial collapse (Patriots) or EMP/CME (One Second After), it does not necessarily do a good job addressing other scenarios such as Depression/Civil War/Nuclear First Strike/Invasion as described in Pres George A. Smith Vision.

I really think our best bet is to band together as wards or neighborhoods, if at all possible.

kathyn wrote:I really think our best bet is to band together as wards or neighborhoods, if at all possible.

I think we underestimate this method of defense and protection. The way that people prosper, whether in tough times or good times, is through voluntary trading, specialization, and hard work. We musn't do everything on our own. We will not be completely alone - do not underestimate the power of righteous bands of people, whether it be family, ward families, or other honorable/trustworthy people. We are building Zion not just for preparation for the 2nd advent of the Savior, but for all the events leading up to that advent.

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I freely admit that I am evil, carnal and devilish. Why do I say this? The reason is that I don't plan on giving away my food storage that I have "hoarded" to those who are starving and allow my wife and kids to starve too. In fact, I don't remember the prophet telling us to do this (as was suggested in an earlier post) so maybe I'm not all THAT bad.

The only thing I would suggest to all of those who say they will do this when armageddon hits is why wait 'till then? You could give away all your food, money, suppliers, etc... right now. There are plenty of poor people that could use it. In my evil, carnal and devilish opinion, all the talk of giving food storage away is just that: talk.

IF I am asked by church authroity to do it I will, or if I have a surplus for my family's needs for a year, I will. In the absence of the formal request, I will do what it says is the responsibility of a father in The Family: A Proclamaiton To The World and provide for my family.

durangout-

I am not saying that, turning in food storage will necessarily be required or asked for. My point is that the post that I listed did give a good reason why it might be a good idea to do it if church authorities requested that members all congregate to the Church building and turn it into one big shelter.

The protection in numbers may be worth it. Also, our goal is not to live a year on our food supply. The goal is to just outlive 95% of the people who haven't saved. Those that aren't prepared should probably be starved out in 3 months. With 95% of the people gone, then it would be easier to start to plant and find food other ways.

But maybe it won't come to that. It is difficult to see just what will be going on after the BIG CRUNCH. But, after reading the post I listed, I think i am more apt to obey, if leadership asks. i was just surprised that the post I referenced left me more open-minded.

There are several scenarios which would prevent Bands of Raiders, looters, Pirates, and Brigands.
THAT WOULD BE DISEASE and Self-Quarantine, NUCLEAR FALLOUT, invasion and martial law.

1. Disease: Potential thieves would fear contact with others because the disease is more of an immediate threat than starvation.

2. Nuclear Fallout: Potential thieves roaming from place to place are exposed to radiation

3. Invasion: Easier to work for and be fed by invading armies than try to form your own group.

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Rincon wrote:Scripture makes it clear that 1/3 of the world population will end up in the cemetery. That is quite a significant event.

Please share these scriptures. Plus, all of us will end up in the cemetery, I guess except those who are 'twinkled.'

iamse7en wrote:

Rincon wrote:Scripture makes it clear that 1/3 of the world population will end up in the cemetery. That is quite a significant event.

Please share these scriptures. Plus, all of us will end up in the cemetery, I guess except those who are 'twinkled.'

Isaiah says it will be more like 90%.

ISaiah 6:13
13¶But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return,...

Gives a different persective to scriptures like this, when you look at it in light of the tithe being in people, and not money.

D&D 64:23-Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

I feel all the quotes below pretty well spell it out on food storage. Having said that, will I share? I will do what I can as long as I am not putting my own family in need or danger. Based upon the Spirit..... If someone comes knocking on my door asking for help then they will receive what I can provide. It they come with the attitude of taking what I have, then they will receive what they deserve...they will be fed with lead.


President Spencer W. Kimball identified who the Ten Virgins are in the Church. “I believe that the Ten Virgins represent the people of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and not the rank and file of the world. All of the virgins, wise and foolish, had accepted the invitation to the wedding supper. They had knowledge of the program and had been warned of the important day to come.
They (the foolish) knew the way, but gave only a small measure of loyalty and devotion. I ask you, what value is a car without an engine, a cup without water, a table without food, or a lamp without oil? Hundreds of thousands of us today are in this position. Confidence has been dulled and patience worn thin. It is so hard to wait and be prepared always. But we cannot allow ourselves to slumber. The Lord has given us this parable as a special warning. The foolish asked others to share their oil, but spiritual (as well as temporal) preparedness cannot be shared in an instant. The wise had to go, else the bridegroom would have gone unwelcomed. They needed all their oil for themselves, they could not save the foolish. The responsibility was each for himself”.
(From: Faith Precedes The Miracle, pg. 253)



"The responsibility for each person’s social, emotional, spiritual, physical, or economic well-being rests first upon himself, second upon his family, and third upon the Church if he is a faithful member thereof.

"No true Latter-day Saint, while physically or emotionally able will voluntarily shift the burden of his own or his family’s well-being to someone else. So long as he can, under the inspiration of the Lord and with his own labors, he will supply himself and his family with the spiritual and temporal necessities of life."

-Spencer W. Kimball

"Be not so unwise as to sell the bread that you and your children need...and remember that you cannot buy any from me, unless you pay a fair price for it."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 256

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"The Saints have been advised to pay their own way and maintain a cash reserve. Recent history has demonstrated that in difficult days it is reserves with intrinsic value that are of most worth, rather than [cash] reserves, the value of which may be destroyed through inflation."
Ezra Taft Benson, “Prepare Ye,” Ensign, Jan. 1974

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"Consider this comparison. In the welfare program we have been counseled for generations by the leaders of the Church to secure for ourselves a year’s supply of food and clothing, and if possible fuel, and to be concerned for our shelter. This is a responsibility laid upon the individual members of the church, upon each family. The commodities are to be stored at home. They are to be privately purchased, privately stored, and in time of crisis, privately used.
It is not ever suggested that because we have bishop’s storehouses there would be no need for individual families to maintain their year’s supply. The counsel for the individual to protect himself and his family has never been withdrawn. It has been continually emphasized."
Boyd K. Packer, “The Holy Temple”

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"Our bishops' storehouses are not intended to stock enough commodities to care for all the members of the Church. Storehouses are only established to care for the poor and the needy. For this reason, members of the Church have been instructed to personally store a year's supply of food, clothing, and, where possible, fuel. By following this counsel, most members will be prepared and able to care for themselves and their family members, and be able to share with others as may be needed."
Ezra Taft Benson, "Ministering to Needs through the Lord's Storehouse System" Ensign, May, 1977

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“The Church cannot be expected to provide for every one of its millions of members in case of public or personal disaster.”
James E. Faust

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“We are approaching troublesome times. I have been talking about them for years. They seem to be upon us. We shall have a period, how long I know not, of what we shall call prosperity; and then there will be something else. I have felt from the time this plan was put into operation that what we were really doing here was not alone caring for our people at this time, where there were so many other avenues open for them to get their help. But we were building for future times, when we might need all of our experience, all of our training and skill, all of our intelligence, to preserve ourselves and those who might be less fortunate among us than we ourselves may personally be.
I for one can visualize a condition, it may or may not come, when the best of us today, will be not much better off than the poorest of us are now, I do not want to seem too pessimistic, but the world faces one of the greatest crisis in its history, and no mortal man, without the inspiration of the Lord, can tell where it will lead.”
Reuben J. Clark Jr., The Deseret News, February 8, 1941

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Rincon wrote:The members in our ward and stake have pretty near zero storage.

Our Stake President said something about the level of debt within the stake a few years ago. He was worried that so many members were living with excessive credit card and mortgage debt. If so many people are living with debt, I wonder how many of them have obeyed the prophets' admonitions to store up 1 year's supply of food etc.

Our ward is so spread out. My wife and I are the only members in our village.