LDS Freedom Forum

OK, I just wanted to throw this out there since a friend of mine (Natasha) brought it up today and I thought she had a pretty good point. We know how in the last days temples will dot the earth in preparation for all of the work that will be done for the dead during the millennium, right? Obviously, if it is going to take most, if not all of the millennium to complete the work for the dead, we're going to need temples everywhere, but right now there are only what, just under 115 world-wide? It would cost the church a LOT of money to build temples that dotted the earth, but is there a possibility that ward houses and stake centers around the world (ones with baptismal fonts) can be dedicated and used as temples so that hundreds or thousands more don't necessarily have to be constructed per se? It just seems like the 2nd coming is getting closer and closer with each passing month and if hundreds more temples still need to be built to satisfy the demands of the work to be done in the millennium, I think we'd still be 100 years away from Christ's return and I doubt we have that much time left. I don't know how this (wards houses and/or stake centers being used as temples) would work when it comes to initiatories, endowments, sealings, etc., but at least the baptisms and confirmations could take place. This line of thought makes sense to me and so I wanted to throw it out there to see what everyone else thinks.

From: 'TEACHINGS OF EZRA TAFT BENSON' - p. 247

"We preside over the great redemptive work for the dead. Before the Savior can present this kingdom to His Father, all the descendants of Shem, Ham and Japheth who have not received the gospel in the flesh must have the opportunity to hear the gospel. That work is going forward on the other side of the veil with greater acceleration than it is here. Our work is to officiate in the temples of God for them. We don't build temples until the Church is well established in a country. Our predecessors have prophesied that temples will dot the landscape of North and South America, the isles of the Pacific, Europe, and elsewhere. If this redemptive work is to be done on the scale it must be, hundreds of temples will be needed."

Church could really get the Devil's goat by purchasing an old cruise ship, converting it into a floating temple that could circumnavigate the globe and stop in various ports of call. All of those tiny islands, far-flung seaside countries get an annual temple weekend aboard the temple, when it pulls into their nearby port...

Col. Flagg wrote:but right now there are only what, just under 115 world-wide?

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/statistics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temples in operation 134
Temples under construction 10
Temples that are announced 13
TOTAL 157

Temple building will accelerate during the millennium IMO, but for now the earth is already dotted with Temples. Obviously there will eventually be more "dots".
As to Col. Flaggs question regarding Stake centers becoming Temples??? All it would take is a prophet dedicating it as such. But then a person would need a recommend to enter...

JulesGP wrote:

shadow wrote:Temple building will accelerate during the millennium IMO, but for now the earth is already dotted with Temples. Obviously there will eventually be more "dots".
As to Col. Flaggs question regarding Stake centers becoming Temples??? All it would take is a prophet dedicating it as such. But then a person would need a recommend to enter...

If it were dedicated as a temple, wouldn't it then BECOME a temple, and require a recommend for entrance?

Yep.

StuckInIowa wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote:but right now there are only what, just under 115 world-wide?

http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/statistics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temples in operation 134
Temples under construction 10
Temples that are announced 13
TOTAL 157

Thanks!

shadow wrote:

JulesGP wrote:

shadow wrote:Temple building will accelerate during the millennium IMO, but for now the earth is already dotted with Temples. Obviously there will eventually be more "dots".
As to Col. Flaggs question regarding Stake centers becoming Temples??? All it would take is a prophet dedicating it as such. But then a person would need a recommend to enter...

If it were dedicated as a temple, wouldn't it then BECOME a temple, and require a recommend for entrance?

Yep.

During the millennium, Satan will have no power over the hearts of men and only the righteous will be living upon the earth (LDS and non-LDS) since the wicked and all things corrupt would have been destroyed/burned before Christ's reign as King of Kings over the whole earth - thus, is it not reasonable to assume that one would not need a temple recommend to enter into the house of the Lord, thus, nullifying needing a temple recommend to enter a ward house or stake center? Will we even need Sunday services anymore with which to use these buildings?

Col. Flagg wrote:During the millennium, Satan will have no power over the hearts of men and only the righteous will be living upon the earth (LDS and non-LDS) since the wicked and all things corrupt would have been destroyed/burned before Christ's reign as King of Kings over the whole earth - thus, is it not reasonable to assume that one would not need a temple recommend to enter into the house of the Lord, thus, nullifying needing a temple recommend to enter a ward house or stake center? Will we even need Sunday services anymore with which to use these buildings?

During the millennium (a terrestrial kingdom) not everyone will be members and not every member will be worthy to get a recommend. Thus a recommend would still be required. In the Celestial kingdom, that would be a different story O:-)

shadow wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote:During the millennium, Satan will have no power over the hearts of men and only the righteous will be living upon the earth (LDS and non-LDS) since the wicked and all things corrupt would have been destroyed/burned before Christ's reign as King of Kings over the whole earth - thus, is it not reasonable to assume that one would not need a temple recommend to enter into the house of the Lord, thus, nullifying needing a temple recommend to enter a ward house or stake center? Will we even need Sunday services anymore with which to use these buildings?

During the millennium (a terrestrial kingdom) not everyone will be members and not every member will be worthy to get a recommend. Thus a recommend would still be required. In the Celestial kingdom, that would be a different story O:-)

You've got a good point there (the earth still being in a terrestrial state and not everyone being worthy). I'm just trying to hypothesize how wards/stakes could be utilized as temples while still serving the needs of the wards on Sundays (if that will still be going on) so that you don't have to present a recommend to enter?

I don't know, but I'm convinced Ron Paul is going to the Celestial Kingdom.

More information to ponder:

CR,L RICHARDS - OCT:1959
In 1906 I heard President Joseph F. Smith make this statement in Rotterdam, Holland: "The day will come when temples of the Lord will dot this whole land of Europe," and I have lived long enough to see two of them there, and I tell you it is changing the feeling of our people toward the Church to know that these glorious blessings are coming within their reach.

CR,NA MAXWELL OCT:1981
Yes, there will be wrenching polarization on this planet, but also the remarkable reunion with our colleagues in Christ from the City of Enoch. Yes, nation after nation will become a house divided, but more and more unifying Houses of the Lord will grace this planet. Yes, Armageddon lies ahead. But so does Adam-ondi-Ahman!

A couple of other things to keep in mind regarding the building of temples:
Temples are built where there is a need. As worthy temple goers we can help create additional needs by going more frequently.

Many places do not have temples currently, because the need does not yet exist, because there aren't the members there to attend. The souls of those who have left this earth are desperately waiting for their work to be done, but much of this work must be and will be completed by their descendants, who, in many cases, are not yet members themselves.

Therefore missionary work must proceed temple work in many places to prepare the people of those lands to be able to enter The House of the Lord, and do the work for themselves as well as for their ancestors.

Imagine how quickly this work willl accelerate once the ten tribes have been prepared to join in this sacred work.

Check out this map from the church website:

http://lds.org/church/temples/around-th ... p?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as using EXISTING ward and stake building as temples...how many of these will survive the destruction associated with massive persecution and natural disasters - cleansings?

mattctr wrote:Church could really get the Devil's goat by purchasing an old cruise ship, converting it into a floating temple that could circumnavigate the globe and stop in various ports of call. All of those tiny islands, far-flung seaside countries get an annual temple weekend aboard the temple, when it pulls into their nearby port...

I totally love that idea... and, I've never been on a cruise before!

BrianM wrote:

mattctr wrote:Church could really get the Devil's goat by purchasing an old cruise ship, converting it into a floating temple that could circumnavigate the globe and stop in various ports of call. All of those tiny islands, far-flung seaside countries get an annual temple weekend aboard the temple, when it pulls into their nearby port...

I totally love that idea... and, I've never been on a cruise before!

I'm sure there would be enough members willing to fill assignments to form an all volunteer staff. B-)
Same remodel concept could be done with that airliner Huntsman Sr. lets the church borrow...

Since I was the one who was talking to Col. Flagg about this I thought I would clarify. Several years ago my husband and I were Stake Missionaries in the panhandle of Florida. After a meeting of several Stake Missionaries in the area people were just standing around talking and eating the refreshments that had been provided. Someone asked the question about temples dotting the land. That perked everyone's interest and one of the leaders said that he could visual "PORTIONS" of each Stake and/or Ward building being dedicated for that purpose. No one mentioned dedicating the whole of each building...rather, just a portion....probably in and around the area of the baptismal font. Regular meetings could still take place in each Ward or Stake building which would then, of course, allow those not holding a recommend to have access. Whether this is probable or not, I don't know. I know that in Utah, usually just Stake buildings have a baptsimal font. Having lived in the "mission field" most of my life, regular Ward buildings are built WITH a baptismal font.

But then where would the new members get baptized?

It's probably a moot point, Shadow...because it was just something that was discussed at a meeting I attended. However, since you posed the question...there's no reason that EVERY building that had a baptismal font would be used for temple work. During the same period that my husband and I served as Stake Missionaries, we attended several meetings where leaders there had expressed the possibility in ensuing years that portions of Ward buildings could be dedicated to be used for temple work. No biggie...just a thought thrown out there. The Lord can do whatever he wants. It'll all get done!

BrianM wrote:

mattctr wrote:Church could really get the Devil's goat by purchasing an old cruise ship, converting it into a floating temple that could circumnavigate the globe and stop in various ports of call. All of those tiny islands, far-flung seaside countries get an annual temple weekend aboard the temple, when it pulls into their nearby port...

I totally love that idea... and, I've never been on a cruise before!

Can you imagine the initial reaction from church members... 'today the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints announced that it has negotiated the purchase of a cruise ship from Carnival Cruise Lines- details of the transaction are still unclear - church officials declined to comment on the purchase'.

shadow wrote:But then where would the new members get baptized?

In the nearest river, of course.

shadow wrote:But then where would the new members get baptized?

Well, the tabernacle in the wilderness was used as a temporary temple, so I see no reason why church buildings can't be appointed and dedicated for temple work on a temporary basis either.
Sun = Church/Interviews
Mon = FHE/Maintenance/Set-Up
Tues - Fri = Dedication/Temple Work
Sat = Take down/Baptisms/Activities/Etc.

Of course, whatever will be will be.

temple ordinances were performed in "bowrey houses" on temple square before the temple was completed. I know that one of the gardeners ( I should say the 2 main gardeners) were sent to Independence, MO around 1990 to landscape with the idea of "a temple without wall". That was their instruction from the 1st Pres. of the church.

I know that one of the gardeners ( I should say the 2 main gardeners) were sent to Independence, MO around 1990 to landscape with the idea of "a temple without wall". That was their instruction from the 1st Pres. of the church.

That also could have been just to make the grounds beautiful (sacred feeling), due to the fact there currently is not a temple there...be ready for it later.

waking wrote:temple ordinances were performed in "bowrey houses" on temple square before the temple was completed. I know that one of the gardeners ( I should say the 2 main gardeners) were sent to Independence, MO around 1990 to landscape with the idea of "a temple without wall". That was their instruction from the 1st Pres. of the church.

Before the Bowery Houses, ordinances were performed on the top of Ensign Peak just north of downtown SLC. It's worth a short hike up there to comtemplate that it is consecrated holy ground.