Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Teancum-Old
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Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

Post by Teancum-Old »

I recently came across the following New York Times article written by a non-LDS lawyer (Jeffrey Rosen) on "Radical Constitutionalism":

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/magaz ... lab-t.html

This Rosen character really got me fired up with lines like:

"Lee (new Utah Tea Party Senator) offer glimpses of a truly radical vision of the U.S. Constitution"

The constitutionalism of many Tea Partiers is "eccentric and extreme" and "a comprehensive, if startling, worldview about the proper roles of government and faith in American life"

"Skousen, a Mormon who died in 2006 at 92, was for years dismissed by many mainstream conservatives, including William F. Buckley Jr., as a conspiracy-mongering extremist; he was also eventually criticized by the Mormon Church."

"Skousen’s vision of the Constitution was no less extreme."

Skousen's constitutional arguments offer "eccentric view the Supreme Court has rejected"

Is Rosen an idiot, completely ignorant, or a gadianton? I know we all expect this type of garbage from most media outlets these days since they are mostly controlled by the PTB but what bothers me the most is that so many conservatives and Mormons seem to be falling right behind this "constitution is radical" line. Of course the constitution is radical to Gadiantons! They can't stand it. Just like Lucifer could not stand the fact that his tyranical plan was rejected over Christ's plan of freedom! Yet many members of the Church keep right on voting for Harry Reid and electable candidates like Mitt Romney and then defend their doing so!

I have heard of an instance or two where members of the Church criticize Skousen (probably a mix of Reid and Romney supporters). I never have understood how anyone Mormon could do such a thing. To me, criticizing Skousen is Pres. Benson/McKay taught? Is this Rosen character accurate in his assertion that Skousen was "eventually criticized by the Mormon Church" or is he completely fabricating at this point? Anyone have any details on this?

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

Post by buffalo_girl »

The constitutionalism of many Tea Partiers is "eccentric and extreme" and "a comprehensive, if startling, worldview about the proper roles of government and faith in American life"

"Skousen, a Mormon who died in 2006 at 92, was for years dismissed by many mainstream conservatives, including William F. Buckley Jr., as a conspiracy-mongering extremist; he was also eventually criticized by the Mormon Church."

Consider the 'source' of these comments.

The New York Times is a globalist propaganda tool.

William f. Buckley Jr., was a member of Yale's Skull & Bones secret society, an unblinking sociopath, and very 'integrated' into the NWO matrix.

I have no problem with Skousen's take on the Constitution. I don't necessarily agree with his take on Capitalism (watch the blowback on that statement). I think Conservative thought tends to equate Capitalism exclusively with unalienable rights. I don't.

It seems to me the Constitution is pretty straight forward as far as it goes. I see a couple of areas having to do with Executive Power during wartime that makes me wish it could be fine tuned a bit.

As far as I'm concerned, the 'conspiracy-mongering extremists' are those pointing a finger at those of us trying to preserve our constitutionally guaranteed unalienable rights. They are the extremists and a threat to our sovereignty and liberty as a people and a nation.

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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The wicked take the truth to be hard.

believer
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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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If Cleon Skousen was on the outs with the LDS church, why did President Monson speak at his funeral?-----and he spoke favorably at that.


Believer

Silas
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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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I have heard some members trying to pass around a rumor that he was excommunicated from the church because of his "extremist views", which of course is entirely false. The church withdrew its support for the Freemen Institute but they never condemned Skousen or what he was doing. I think a lot of people are scared of Skousen, and while I don't think I agree with everything he wrote, I don't hesitate to say that there are few who have as good an understanding of the Constitution as he did. Besides that the Constitution is extreme, our founders were extremist. Freedom is an extreme concept no one should be afraid of that.

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Spence
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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Brian knew him personally. Maybe he can clear it up.

EDIT: Wikipedia says that the first presidency asked for Freeman Institute meetings not to use church facilities and not be promoted or endorsed at church. But that is no different than any not church function. Also considering the ilk of journalists these days, I bet that is where he did his research... :|

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Teancum-Old
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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

Post by Teancum-Old »

Thanks for the info. I forgot about the Church and the Freeman Institute. Perhaps that's what people extrapolate from to get the idea that Skousen was criticized by the Church. Also nice to be reminded of Pres. Monson at Skousen's funeral (thanks believer ;) ). I just may send the New York Times some of this info to show them what they plainly left out of their article. But perhaps it is not worth the time or the effort.
BrentL wrote:
buffalo_girl wrote:
I don't necessarily agree with his take on Capitalism (watch the blowback on that statement). I think Conservative thought tends to equate Capitalism exclusively with unalienable rights. I don't.

I don't think he had a very favorable view of capitalism.


About capitalism, Skousen's "The Naked Capitalist" is definitely critical of capitalism as it exists today. Here he writes about how the capitalists in charge today are basically heading up the secret combination the BOM warns us about. But is he critical about pure capitalism? Would we agree that pure capitalism is nothing more than the free market our Founding Fathers planned on? If not, please explain. BrentL, buffalo_girl?

Also, has anyone else had a real run-in with an LDS Skousen-hater? What is their logic? Since Brian knew Skousen personally, it would be nice for him to chime in here as well.

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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This is my take on why various people oppose Dr. Skousen:

Liberals & socialists obviously hate him along with elder Ezra Taft Benson for their views.

BYU professors and wannabe intellectuals resent him because:

1) he was appointed a religion professor by President David O. McKay who said the Church doesn't have any real scholars of religion who are LDS (BYU had to hire non-member professors). This was a HUGE insult to the religion department (not sure how Nibley, Madsen, Sperry, et. al. took this), which led directly to lies told to Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith about the doctrinal correctness of Dr. Skousen's books. This has led to a belief in the Church that Dr. Skousen's teachings are NEVER to be mentioned in church talks & lessons, and some members will walk out of sacrament meeting and other classes if he is mentioned.

2) He is resented because while he obtained a law degree, he became a professor ONLY because the Prophet appointed him, rather than he having to go the traditional route of graduate student, teaching assistant, Master's degree (thesis defense), Ph.D. program (dissertation defense), instructor, associate professor, assistant professor, full professor (tenure track), etc. He is resented for being called "Dr." In 1994, George Wythe College (now University) awarded Cleon Skousen the Chancellor's degree - recognition for having done enough research and publishing to be granted 6 Ph.D's in different fields. BYU has only 2 chancellor degree holders: Karl Maeser and Hugh Nibley.

3) He published his works through Bookcraft and other small publishers, rather submitting his works to be peer-reviewed through places such as the University of Chicago Press. This charge I repeatedly heard while at BYU. Therefore, he is NOT intellectually sound.

4) Hugh Nibley is the darling of the BYU professors and LDS wannabe intellectuals, yet Hugh Nibley never sold anywhere near the numbers of books, nor had the high following Cleon Skousen had/has. The problem here is that Nibley is hard to understand, while Skousen taught in naturally easier manners, verbage, and examples that the non-intellectual "commoner" could grasp.

5) Political Bias: Dr. Skousen was well-known as a Constitutional Conservative/anti-communist. Not surprisingly, every LDS wannbe intellectual that I have met who admits they disagree with Skousen's political positions end up admit they are a follower of Nibley, and his more "moderate" political positions (yea, even in Nibley's book "Approaching Zion" where he chastises Ronald Reagan for opposing the Warsaw Pact - "They were only trying to better the lives of their citizens, on their way to the United Order - unlike greedy capitalism" (my paraphrase)). They consider themselves political moderates, unlike those knee-jerk hardliner conservative republicans. I should mention that these people are much more inclined to favor Sunstone & Dialogue, than the general church membership.

At Dr. Skousen's funeral, Pres. Monson declared "That Cleon Skousen was faithful to the gospel all his life. In no way did he ever err." According to one of Cleon's sons, Pres. Monson was speaking in a sunday school class relating Dr. Skousen' "Personal Search for the Meaning of the Atonement" (the concepts, not by name), when a lady in the class said "President Monson, that sounds a lot like Skousen! I thought we were never to mention Skousen in church!" Pres. Monson replied incredulously: "Where did you hear THAT!?"
Last edited by HeirofNumenor on October 5th, 2011, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Silas
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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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I've read some of Nibley's approaching Zion. I felt like he didn't do a very good job distinguishing the united order from socialism. Which whenever I hear members of the church arguing for more government programs and more government involvement in our lives it confuses me. They make it sound like I am unrighteous for not wanting to pay higher taxes to help people and come closer to living the united order. But none of them have been able to explain to me how I am suppose to give everything to the church if the government has already taken it via taxation. If I get to keep more of my money then I can give more of it to the church, therefore the church will be able to do more good things. I much prefer that President Monson lead us to the united order than President Obama. I trust the first one much more than the other.

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Silas wrote:I much prefer that President Monson lead us to the united order than President Obama. I trust the first one much more than the other.
Understatement of the year....Prophet vs. CIA stooge....

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Teancum-Old
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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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HeirofNumenor wrote:This is my take on why various people oppose Dr. Skousen:

Liberals & socialists obviously hate him along with elder Ezra Taft Benson for their views.

BYU professors and wannabe intellectuals resent him because:

1) he was appointed a religion professor by President David O. McKay who said the Church doesn't have any real scholars of religion who are LDS (BYU had to hire non-member professors). This was a HUGH insult to the religion department (not sure how Nibley, Madsen, Sperry, et. al. took this), which led directly to lies told to Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith about the doctrinal correctness of Dr. Skousen's books. This has led to a belief in the Church that Dr. Skousen's teachings are NEVER to be mentioned in church talks & lessons, and some members will walk out of sacrament meeting and other classes if he is mentioned.

2) He is resented because while he obtained a law degree, he became a professor ONLY because the Prophet appointed him, rather than he having to go the traditional route of graduate student, teaching assistant, Master's degree (thesis defense), Ph.D. program (dissertation defense), instructor, associate professor, assistant professor, full professor (tenure track), etc. He is resented for being called "Dr." In 1994, George Wythe College (now University) awarded Cleon Skousen the Chancellor's degree - recognition for having done enough research and publishing to be granted 6 Ph.D's in different fields. BYU has only 2 chancellor degree holders: Karl Maeser and Hugh Nibley.

3) He published his works through Bookcraft and other small publishers, rather submitting his works to be peer-reviewed through places such as the University of Chicago Press. This charge I repeatedly heard while at BYU. Therefore, he is NOT intellectually sound.

4) Hugh Nibley is the darling of the BYU professors and LDS wannabe intellectuals, yet Hugh Nibley never sold anywhere near the numbers of books, nor had the high following Cleon Skousen had/has. The problem here is that Nibley is hard to understand, while Skousen taught in naturally easier manners, verbage, and examples that the non-intellectual "commoner" could grasp.

5) Political Bias: Dr. Skousen was well-known as a Constitutional Conservative/anti-communist. Not surprisingly, every LDS wannbe intellectual that I have met who admits they disagree with Skousen's political positions end up admit they are a follower of Nibley, and his more "moderate" political positions (yea, even in Nibley's book "Approaching Zion" where he chastises Ronald Reagan for opposing the Warsaw Pact - "They were only trying to better the lives of their citizens, on their way to the United Order - unlike greedy capitalism" (my paraphrase)). They consider themselves political moderates, unlike those knee-jerk hardliner conservative republicans. I should mention that these people are much more inclined to favor Sunstone & Dialogue, than the general church membership.

At Dr. Skousen's funeral, Pres. Monson declared "That Cleon Skousen was faithful to the gospel all his life. In no way did he ever err." According to one of Cleon's sons, Pres. Monson was speaking in a sunday school class relating Dr. Skousen' "Personal Search for the Meaning of the Atonement" (the concepts, not by name), when a lady in the class said "President Monson, that sounds a lot like Skousen! I thought we were never to mention Skousen in church!" Pres. Monson replied incredulously: "Where did you hear THAT!?"
Great insights! I knew I could count on getting some answers to this question from users on this forum. Thanks.

Anyone esle have any other personal insights??

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Teancum wrote:..."Skousen, a Mormon who died in 2006 at 92, was for years dismissed by many mainstream conservatives, including William F. Buckley Jr., as a conspiracy-mongering extremist; he was also eventually criticized by the Mormon Church."...
Interpret it as you will, but I wouldn't say Skousen was criticized by the Church... but this is the reason people say that the Church distanced from Skousen...

In a letter “[t]o All Stake Presidents, Bishops, and Branch Presidents in the United States,” the First Presidency issued a statement that read:

“It has come to our attention that in some areas announcements have been made in Church meetings of lectures to be given by those connected with the Freemen Institute. This is to inform you that no announcements should be made in Church meetings of these, or other similar, lectures or events that are not under the sponsorship of the Church.

“This instruction is not intended to express any disapproval of the right of the Freemen Institute and its lecturers to conduct such meetings or of the contents of the lectures. The only purpose is to make certain that neither Church facilities nor Church meetings are used to advertise such events and to avoid any implication that the Church endorses what is said during such lectures.”

(letter from the Office of the First Presidency, Spencer W. Kimball, N. Eldon Tanner, Marion G. Romney, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah, 15 February 1979)

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Teancum wrote:"Skousen, a Mormon who died in 2006 at 92, was for years dismissed by many mainstream conservatives, including William F. Buckley Jr., as a conspiracy-mongering extremist; he was also eventually criticized by the Mormon Church."
Comments like this, especially from Latter-day Saints, are what prompted me to write this "Open Letter to Detractors of W. Cleon Skousen and His Works". (click the link to read it)

In the letter I mentioned the fact that Pres. McKay asked Cleon to write some of the books he wrote, that McKay and Benson both endorsed one of Skousen's books in General Conference, and quoted the many good things President Monson said about him, including the First Presidency Letter (Hinckley, Monson, Faust) praising Skousen.

“Everyone he spoke to, everyone he taught, is closer to Christ than before they met Cleon Skousen.”

“Our lives are better because of him whom we honor.”

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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BrentL wrote:I don't think he had a very favorable view of capitalism.
Hmmm... I never heard him speak against capitalism, but I suppose it also depends on what you mean by "capitalism"... you could say he didn't have a favorable view of evil capitalists, but he like the good ones :)

Skousen was definitely in favor of a free enterprise system.

He also recognized (and it was the basis of his book "The Naked Capitalist") that... well, I'll just quote from the description of the book:
"It reveals how some of the richest people (capitalists) in the world have supported communism and socialism. Why would they support what appears to be the pathway to their own destruction? Dr. Quigley has been associated with many of these dynastic families of the super-rich. He therefore writes as an authority on the world’s secret power structure. His answers to the above question may astonish you."

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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BYU professors and wannabe intellectuals resent him because:
Here I might also add that Dr. Skousen was a main point of contact for professors from Hebrew University when they began working on an archeological dig that they discovered a cave in the 1960's, and began working on it in the 90's. The site is called Keir Beit Lehi (the Ruins of the House of Lehi), so named by the Arab nomads whose legends tell of a prophet named Lehi who lived an taught in the village just before Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon. The Israelis, with assistant from Cleon Skousen, and his son-in-law Glen Kimber (and Kimber's private HS students) have excavated what appears to be at least a Christian church, if not a temple dating back to at last 400 AD, with some caves excavated appearing to be a refuge cave dating back to 600 BC.

Now for the kicker:

Dr. Skousen and Hebrew Univesity invited BYU to participate in the dig, which would have greatly hlped BYU's stature in Israel and the scientific world, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO....the BYU academics/administrators refused to have ANYTHING to do with Cleon Skousen, so they passed on the project....

Today, Utah Valley University has the honors of participating with Hebrew University and UVU is doing an AWESOME job helping the dig come along, much to the chagrin of BYU.

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Comments like this, especially from Latter-day Saints, are what prompted me to write this "Open Letter to Detractors of W. Cleon Skousen and His Works". (click the link to read it)
thank you Brian~! That is a wonderful open letter! I am going to post parts of it here.

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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From President Thomas S. Monson at W. Cleon Skousen's funeral:
At the funeral of author W. Cleon Skousen, Thomas S. Monson recited, from memory, a passage found in The First 2,000 Years (by Skousen). President Monson said that he had previously quoted this to a man who had asked about Skousen’s character:

“Often the wisdom of God is foolishness to men, but the greatest single lesson to be learned in mortality is that when God commands and a man obeys, that man will always be right.”

President Monson also said: “Everyone he spoke to, everyone he taught, is closer to Christ than before they met Cleon Skousen.”

Other comments made at Skousen’s funeral by President Monson, who at the time was the first counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

“He (Cleon Skousen) has lived a wonderful life, extended, look at all these years, but he has never ever deviated.”

“…and the song that Cleon Skousen is hearing: ‘well done thy good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.’”

President Thomas S. Monson went on to read a message from the LDS First Presidency (Gordon B. Hinckley, Thomas S. Monson, James E. Faust) to Skousen’s wife, Jewel. Some excerpts from that letter:

“We were saddened to hear of the passing of… our friend” President Monson then interjected “The Savior used the word Friend…”

“Skousen was indeed an extraordinary man who set a high standard of integrity and achievement…”

“His fierce loyalty to our country and his attempts to protect our freedoms are well-recognized. As he lifted his voice, both in the books he authored and the speeches he delivered, he was a powerful influence for good…”

“His vision and achievements will remain a lasting legacy and blueprint for others to follow…”

After reading the letter, President Monson also said:

“Our lives are better because of him whom we honor.”
Thank you BrianM for putting this together :)

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Brother Skousen spoke to my Father's Army Special Forces Unit in Bad Tolz, Germany on the threat of communism.
Since my Father was the Branch President, Brother Skousen visited our home and talked more about communism
in relation to the last days and the church. I believe it was about 1958 or 59. I was spellbound by the films I was
allowed to watch and the stories and teachings of Brother Skousen. To call him a 'conspiracy-mongering extremist'
is nothing short of ridiculous. In this case I would respond to the arrogance and ignorance of that statement by
quoting Shakespeare...."Methinks thou doth protest too much, methinks."

Some folks still suffer from the 'frog in the pot' syndrome. I have watched in earnest as our country has slowly
subcumbed to communism just as Brother Skousen predicted while the masses sleep mentally and physically...
including BYU professors. For some it will be too little too late by the time they awake.

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It would seem that there are many in the true church who insist on entertaining and spreading myths. Cleon had a brother named Max, and its true that Cleon is often confused with Max and "his" problems. The same types of things have happened to many of the great scholars in the Church. Hyrum Andrus, Reed and Hugh Nibley, there's always somebody spreading lies and rumors about them. Bruce R. McConkie, B.H. Roberts, J. Golden Kimball. The rumors and myths never stop. Even todays apostles have their detractors, supposedly good members of the church! I remember being told by an old man that if Ezra Taft Benson was ever made the prophet he (the old man) would leave the church. I sure hope the poor old guy died first.

There was a movie out there some time ago called the God Makers, terrible movie! There should be a movie called the Myth Makers, as a church, we're pretty darn good at it!

Bob

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bobhenstra wrote:It would seem that there are many in the true church who insist on entertaining and spreading myths. Cleon had a brother named Max, and its true that Cleon is often confused with Max and "his" problems. The same types of things have happened to many of the great scholars in the Church. Hyrum Andrus, Reed and Hugh Nibley, there's always somebody spreading rumors about them. Bruce R. McConkie, B.H. Roberts, J. Golden Kimball. The rumors and myths never stop. Even todays apostles have their detractors, supposedly good members of the church! I remember being told by an old man that if Ezra Taft Benson was ever made the prophet he (the old man) would leave the church. I sure hope the poor old guy died first.

There was a movie out there some time ago called the God Makers, terrible movie! There should be a movie called the Myth Makers, as a church, we're pretty darn good at it!

Bob
YUP....I heard they were going to construct a new building downtown right next to the conference center to 'house' all those rumors.
Isn't ironic that we don't have to watch TV to see and hear the soap operas. They continue to go on within our own church. You'd think
some members would have better things to do.

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Ya see! There ya go, starting another rumor-------

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

Post by Teancum-Old »

Again, great info from everyone. It is all much appreciated.

The only question that still hangs over me is this: Should I send my kids to BYU or not??? :-\ With so many professors there teaching socialism, as Verlan Andersen also believed, is BYU still a good choice? Yet General Authorities regularly speak there and give great firesides. So much good still comes from BYU. It seems to be a much better choice than sending kids to these other completely immoral schools. But of course, there will always be some bad apples...

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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Teancum wrote:Again, great info from everyone. It is all much appreciated.

The only question that still hangs over me is this: Should I send my kids to BYU or not??? :-\ With so many professors there teaching socialism, as Verlan Andersen also believed, is BYU still a good choice? Yet General Authorities regularly speak there and give great firesides. So much good still comes from BYU. It seems to be a much better choice than sending kids to these other completely immoral schools. But of course, there will always be some bad apples...
I think that deserves a completely different thread. However I do not have an opinion yet, though my daughter is stating that is where she want to go. Guess I better get one.

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Re: Skousen: "a conspiracy-mongering extremist"?

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HeirofNumenor wrote:
BYU professors and wannabe intellectuals resent him because:
Here I might also add that Dr. Skousen was a main point of contact for professors from Hebrew University when they began working on an archeological dig that they discovered a cave in the 1960's, and began working on it in the 90's. The site is called Keir Beit Lehi (the Ruins of the House of Lehi), so named by the Arab nomads whose legends tell of a prophet named Lehi who lived an taught in the village just before Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon. The Israelis, with assistant from Cleon Skousen, and his son-in-law Glen Kimber (and Kimber's private HS students) have excavated what appears to be at least a Christian church, if not a temple dating back to at last 400 AD, with some caves excavated appearing to be a refuge cave dating back to 600 BC.

Now for the kicker:

Dr. Skousen and Hebrew Univesity invited BYU to participate in the dig, which would have greatly hlped BYU's stature in Israel and the scientific world, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO....the BYU academics/administrators refused to have ANYTHING to do with Cleon Skousen, so they passed on the project....

Today, Utah Valley University has the honors of participating with Hebrew University and UVU is doing an AWESOME job helping the dig come along, much to the chagrin of BYU.
Sometimes I wish I had taught at UVU -- they did invite me to give a major talk there in 2006 as some of you may recall. Wonderful reception. Good people in general.

W. Cleon Skousen invited me to speak at his home in October 2005 -- about my research on 9/11 and the fall of WTC 7. I think Brian M. was also there. Right after my talk, I asked Dr. Skousen this question -- should I just stick to the physics of my 9/11 research, or should I include the "political implications" also? It was a tough question for me. He said I really could not separate the 9/11 research from implications regarding who was involved, and urged me to include discussion of the implications. Dr Skousen was very supportive of my 9/11 work and talk. Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta's testimony regarding the inaction of Dick Cheney, the lack of air defenses that day which implicated Cheney directly, became one of my major themes, which continues to this day.

I don't think UVU would EVER have given an honorary PhD to Dick Cheney as BYU did in 2007.
BYU's action here should never be forgotten. They continue to invite leading CFR people to speak and be honored on campus... Cheney, Brzezinski, coming up, quoting from a BYU site:
Distinguished Lecture in International Affairs

Dr. John Nagl is the President of the Center for a New American Security. He is also a member of the Defense Policy Board, a Visiting Professor in the War Studies Department at Kings College of London, a life member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Veterans of Foreign Wars, and a member of the International Institute of Strategic Studies.

Dr. Nagl was a Distinguished Graduate of the United States Military Academy Class of 1988 who served as an armor officer in the U.S. Army for 20 years, retiring with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. His last military assignment was as commander of the 1st Battalion, 34th Armor at Fort Riley, Kansas, training Transition Teams that embed with Iraqi and Afghan units. He led a tank platoon in Operation Desert Storm and served as a tank battalion operations officer of a tank battalion task force in Operation Iraqi Freedom. He earned his doctorate from Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar.

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gooseguy11 wrote:
Teancum wrote:Again, great info from everyone. It is all much appreciated.

The only question that still hangs over me is this: Should I send my kids to BYU or not??? :-\ With so many professors there teaching socialism, as Verlan Andersen also believed, is BYU still a good choice? Yet General Authorities regularly speak there and give great firesides. So much good still comes from BYU. It seems to be a much better choice than sending kids to these other completely immoral schools. But of course, there will always be some bad apples...
I think that deserves a completely different thread. However I do not have an opinion yet, though my daughter is stating that is where she want to go. Guess I better get one.
As suggested, I have continued this topic on a new thread (http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 19&t=16249)

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