LDS Freedom Forum

I was just wondering what all the other financial experts' opinions are here in the forum regarding how much longer we have before 'government' begins to confiscate 401k, retirement funds and even precious metals under the guise of 'national security' in order to prevent an outright default by the feds and disintegration of the dollar and to also bail itself out and give them even more time before the system implodes? My wife and I have a 401k and I'm 60-40 for cashing it out and taking the penalty, but part of me feels like if I do, the ponzi scheme artists and criminals in Washington, the 'Fed' and Wall Street will manage to continue this financial facade and charade for another 10+ years. Joel Skousen was on Liberty Roundtable this morning and virtually said as much - that these con men and fraudsters in Washington know how to control everything from inflation to deflation to artificial wealth creation to wealth destruction without everything unraveling and it was his opinion that they can keep inflation under control and the system from imploding for many more years by just tweeking it slowly the way they are. Anybody else beg to differ?

Col. Flagg wrote:I was just wondering what all the other financial experts' opinions are here in the forum regarding how much longer we have before 'government' begins to confiscate 401k, retirement funds and even precious metals under the guise of 'national security' in order to prevent an outright default by the feds and disintegration of the dollar and to also bail itself out and give them even more time before the system implodes? My wife and I have a 401k and I'm 60-40 for cashing it out and taking the penalty, but part of me feels like if I do, the ponzi scheme artists and criminals in Washington, the 'Fed' and Wall Street will manage to continue this financial facade and charade for another 10+ years. Joel Skousen was on Liberty Roundtable this morning and virtually said as much - that these con men and fraudsters in Washington know how to control everything from inflation to deflation to artificial wealth creation to wealth destruction without everything unraveling and it was his opinion that they can keep inflation under control and the system from imploding for many more years by just tweeking it slowly the way they are. Anybody else beg to differ?

I agree with Joel on it (surprising I know)....but that's only in isolation. Sure they control the supply of money....but they cannot control natural law. Violation of laws bring consequences.

For example they can steal from me and give to you.....but sooner or later I run out of money....and they can't control my reaction. We are witnessing this in Egypt right now. Of course they could give money back to me....but that would go against their inherent nature.

Man may appear to have the capability to stop water from running down hill....but its an illusion. The illusion is created by a given set of boundaries....at any point if those boundaries are exceeded....or miscalculated....disaster results.

They don't control God! Disaster will result. Timing is anybody's guess. My guess is we will see some major changes implemented this year and next....and I would be greatly surprised if the country survives 2012 with the government intact as we know it today. In fact 2011 could prove to be a major hurdle for them....at least according to the Palmoni Scrolls. To each their own opinion, study, and inspiration on it!

That's a great question Col. I wish I knew the answer. It's really anybody's guess. Maybe that's the point. I mean; maybe we're just supposed to live by faith without knowing the anwers to a lot of questions.

My thought is that they can keep the system going for quite a while barring a wildcard event (major natural disaster, dirty nuke...) If i were forced to pull a number out of the air I'd say it (the system) can't suvive past 2025.

I agree...I think they can keep it going for quite a while...That said, I disagree that it could last until 2025. We the budget in a shambles I just don't know how it could last that long....If I thought I did not need my money, I would spend it all so they couldn't have it when they came to get it. but, I need to save it for taxes and the like...truly the answer to your question is anybody's guess. Then my last piece of advice is to pray about it, which I am sure you already have....

maybe, until THANKSGIVING

sbsion wrote:maybe, until THANKSGIVING

LOL....yeah once you cross the tipping point.....its a pretty rapid slide! Egypt decayed into chaos in what....a couple days.

Trouble is Egyptians knew they were living under martial law, most Americans still think they are free. The few that realize they are not free blame thier problems on the other party (Republicans balme Dems and vice-versa).

tribrac wrote:Trouble is Egyptians knew they were living under martial law, most Americans still think they are free. The few that realize they are not free blame thier problems on the other party (Republicans balme Dems and vice-versa).

Realizations can change in seconds.....

When the Lord came to the New World the last time it took 3 hours....and 3 days of contemplation....to create a mighty physical, mental, and spiritual change. Also had 3 years as "tribes" after the government collapsed due to wickedness....lots of 3's.

Doesn't guarantee that it will happen this month, next year, or in the next decade....but when it does it can happen very very quickly!

"happy" Halloween............will it be T---- or T----?

I agree...I think they can keep it going for quite a while...That said, I disagree that it could last until 2025.

I'm just hoping we can get to Jan 20. , 2017, when we'll see what a post-Obama presidency looks like - if he hasn't declared martial law....

Good heavens Flag! BEGIN to confiscate 401K’s?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?

Or did you mean..... until they finish cleaning your clock?

I pulled all the retirement funds I could in 2009 and I plan to pull the rest this week (I can now because of job loss). I was pondering your question just this morning. I wondered (and kinda hope) whether they can keep the system together for another 12 or so years (I'll have my mortgage paid then). I have 20 years before I could start taking any retirement money without penalties. I give it 90%+ that the current system will not exist then, so I'm playing the odds.

Something to consider in regards to Joel Skousen's analysis, Most of the time he is speaking on a non religious forum. His comments and analysis is usually geared for the political environment, and as such, doesn't necessarily include the last days prophetic view although that is where he is coming from. Im fairly confident that he is well versed on latter day prophecy and prophetic warnings and would have great insight on just what is happening and what is soon to happen, considering the environment he grew up in. Thus most of his political analysis leaves out the conclusions he would naturally have if he was speaking to a well versed LDS group. Mainly due to the burden of sound argument and valid proof, since a lds view would require lds and biblical references he avoids these sorts of things in order to speak to a much broader group who would not give him audience if he were speaking as a "mormon". Thus he might say on the Alex Jones Show that the PTB can maintain this financial fraud for 10+ years but if he were to speak to an lds group that time line might be substantially shorter given many prophetic elements.

I personally think his analysis is spot on, and if you haven't heard his most recent lecture on why the Constitution is essentially dead and what we can do about it, I highly recommend it.

IMHO.

FWIW, I sense a sea-change in world attitudes towards the dollar as the world currency, and an awakening regarding what is happening (not so much in the US, unfortunately, but certainly in China and Egypt etc).

With this awakening, I have to differ with Joel Skousen -- I don't think "they" can maintain the charade for 10+ years.

Rather, I side with mummy:

I would be greatly surprised if the country survives 2012 with the government intact as we know it today. In fact 2011 could prove to be a major hurdle for them.

Look at the trends -- the Gadiantons take our money by huge Bail-outs (both by Bush/Cheney and by Obama). Then they use "stimulus money" -- to the big corporations. Next comes Quantitative Easing, which leads to the "hidden tax" of inflation. ARe these not the actions of Gadianton robbers? What makes you think they will not try to get the big remaining funds soon -- the retirement funds in particular? That's what I think they are after next... and soon, based on these recent trends and the world-wide (except US) awakening.

I recommend putting dollars into food storage and paying off debts, as the Prophets have said, and into other tangibles. Money in the banks, IMO, could be wiped out quite easily by an EMP over the nation (blamed on the next group we will be taught to hate). Do you have communication and other critical gear in a Faraday box yet? why not? OK -- I admit I still have some work to do in this arena myself, but I am getting out of the banks, in which money is really just ciphers in some computer system which is highly vulnerable to an EMP attack by "terrorists". (Will the REAL terrorists please stand up?)

As the BoM says, riches will become "slippery". Count on it.

Considering the Milton Musser Letter, and Pres. George A Smith Vision I don't see that we have much time left. Many say if 2010 made your head spin, 2011 will be worse. Mormon warned us about the city of Ammonihah how it was destroyed in just one day.

Both the Milton Musser letter and the George A. Smith vision talk about the devaluation of the US Dollar and other countries not accepting dollars in trade. Lindsey Williams has been warning about the devaluation of the dollar as well and not being able to afford to buy things on store shelves because of 5-6$ gasoline. We have already seen China broker deals with Iran, Russia and Brazil to exhange currency and import oil in Yuan. The Petro-Dollar system is the only thing propping up the Dollar. Now that the Petro-Dollar system is broken, the Great Global Ponzi scheme is bust.

If we see 5$ gas, people are gonna be hurting to buy basic necessities. So much of our economy depends on cheap gas. and it's not hard to imagine hungry people taking to the streets in protest. Protests turn into riots. Then you get martial law and gun confiscation.

Money in the banks, IMO, could be wiped out quite easily by an EMP over the nation (blamed on the next group we will be taught to hate).

An EMP can also be caused by massive solar flares, which is what scientists are beginning to panic over.

I still think a Russia/China combined nuke strike would be just as likely.

I have heard that the only thing that is supporting the Stock Market right now, is that International Cooperations have $1 Trillion in overseas/offshore profits and have brokered a deal with the US government to bring this money back into the US to help the economy in exchange for only 5% tax rate. But instead of helping the economy, what these mega-corps are doing is buying their own stock at the same time the CEO's are cashing out of their stock options. With the TARP money money is all spent, and when this offshore money is gone, I don't see that there is any other scheme to keep the illusion of stability going. The Petro-Dollar system is dead with China buying oil in Yuan and brokering currency exchange deals with Russia and Brazil.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06183.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to Milton Musser and David Horne, the devaluation of the US Currency to the point where other nations no longer accept the US Dollar will mark the beginning of the Second Great US Civil War (beginning in Chicago). And then at some point thereafter, after an election and before the inauguration of a new President following the "Greek" President, the Soviets hit when we are weak and poor and divided and before a new POTUS can begin to turn things around.

So, the question is, will Obama win another 4 years. Will he even run for another 4 years. If Obama runs again in 2012, with the electronic voting he could conceivably win another 4 years. Or if there was another "Oklahoma City" event or Major Disaster (New Madrid or Wasatch Quake?) and FEMA actually did a good job of dealing with it. Or FEMA was perceived to do a good job in the media, that could be a cover story for fraud that gets Obama another 4 years.

I think the real determining factor in how long they can hold things together will be weather/natural disasters.

Everything is very precarious right now, but they keep propping it up. A big enough event (major hurricane, earthquake, etc.) will push the first domino over, and it will all go from there.

This is, of course, out of anyone's control and unpredictable. They'll do the best they can for as long as they can, but something out of their control will take it all out of their hands.

I agree with those here that say the current "balancing act" by the gadiantons will come crashing down sooner rather than later. But, I wonder, if this was actually their plan all along. They want fundamental change right? Seems to me, the way history repeats itself, there's going to be an event which triggers this shift towards one-world government. I'm betting the collapse of our economy is just the start. Perhaps the "pit" that they fall into could be world war 3, which may have unintentional results for the gads.

Col. Flagg wrote:I was just wondering what all the other financial experts' opinions are here in the forum regarding how much longer we have before 'government' begins to confiscate 401k, retirement funds and even precious metals under the guise of 'national security' in order to prevent an outright default by the feds and disintegration of the dollar and to also bail itself out and give them even more time before the system implodes? My wife and I have a 401k and I'm 60-40 for cashing it out and taking the penalty, but part of me feels like if I do, the ponzi scheme artists and criminals in Washington, the 'Fed' and Wall Street will manage to continue this financial facade and charade for another 10+ years. Joel Skousen was on Liberty Roundtable this morning and virtually said as much - that these con men and fraudsters in Washington know how to control everything from inflation to deflation to artificial wealth creation to wealth destruction without everything unraveling and it was his opinion that they can keep inflation under control and the system from imploding for many more years by just tweeking it slowly the way they are. Anybody else beg to differ?

Some people emplace a corrosion resistant, water tight container in the ground containing important documents, money, silver or gold and any other essentials. Maybe this is a good idea. Didn't we learn in scouts "always be prepared"? Don't trust 401k's, CD's, Stocks or any other program that offers suppose "real" gain. Ya, right, the gain could only go to the Gads. What they don't know about is maintained by the owner. When I had a 401K, I had already decided that as long as I got back the equivalent of the amount I put in, anything above that was a mere bonus. Cut's the stress that way. I know a lot of guys that lost thousands of dollars because they had all of their eggs in the same basket, and put too much trust in stocks.

I think that things will continue going south, but there will not be a total collapse as long as missiounaries are out in the field. There has to be some way of supporting them. If there is a total collapse, that will be impossible. President Monson has been emphasizing the great need for more missionaries. It seems to me that he is trying to greatly increase the number of missionaries being called. Maybe this will be the last roundup so to speak, but it doesn't seem to be over yet.

That being said, if the Muslum world all goes to Muslim and scheria law, with their hatred of Isreal, and the U.S., perhaps Armegeddin might be in a few years. It will take some time to get all of that organized, however. The rest of the Muslim world needs to follow Egypt first.

At least that is the way I see it. In the meantime, the signs will be coming faster and faster.


Believer

davedan wrote:If we see 5$ gas, people are gonna be hurting to buy basic necessities. So much of our economy depends on cheap gas. and it's not hard to imagine hungry people taking to the streets in protest. Protests turn into riots. Then you get martial law and gun confiscation.

Looks like it is picking up steam in Suez.....

Suez Canal workers go on strike
Ahram Online, Tuesday 8 Feb 2011

Suez Canal Company workers from the cities of Suez, Port Said, and Ismailia began an open-ended sit in today. Disruptions to shipping movements, as well as disasterous econmic losses, are expected if the strike continues. Over 6000 protesters have agreed that they will not go home today once their shift is over and will continue their in front of the company's headquarters until their demands are met. They are protesting against poor wages and deteriorating health and working conditions.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... rike-.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was just thinking about pulling everything from my 401K too but found out that with all the restrictions, its basically stuck unless I lose my job or I am in serious need of money due to an emergency. If I were you (assuming you CAN pull the money out) I would do so myself. But for you, you will have to decide, after seeking some guidance through prayer.

But I do believe we have some great nuggets on this post to help anyone in a similar dilemna:

Col. Flagg wrote:Joel Skousen was on Liberty Roundtable this morning and virtually said as much - that these con men and fraudsters in Washington know how to control everything from inflation to deflation to artificial wealth creation to wealth destruction without everything unraveling and it was his opinion that they can keep inflation under control and the system from imploding for many more years by just tweeking it slowly the way they are.

Joel could be right. Japan has been in economic trouble for about two decades now (forget the lost decades, it is now two) and are running a GDP to debt ratio of over 200%. If Japan central bank could pull this off for this long, I would have to believe it is a possibility here as well.

Mummy wrote:They don't control God! Disaster will result. Timing is anybody's guess. My guess is we will see some major changes implemented this year and next....and I would be greatly surprised if the country survives 2012 with the government intact as we know it today. In fact 2011 could prove to be a major hurdle for them....at least according to the Palmoni Scrolls. To each their own opinion, study, and inspiration on it!

Bu then Mummy makes a great point here. Disaster will result. And when it does, everything will be turned upside-down in a hurry. I just started studying the Palmoni scrolls. Lot's of good research to dig through. 2011 seems to be pretty important. But then again, Palmoni isn't perfect and could be wrong.

believer wrote:if the Muslum world all goes to Muslim and scheria law, with their hatred of Isreal, and the U.S., perhaps Armegeddin might be in a few years. It will take some time to get all of that organized, however. The rest of the Muslim world needs to follow Egypt first.

Egypt is very interesting. If more of the Middle East follows their lead, I would expect Israel to be under siege soon after. Could this initiate Armageddon? (Ezekiel 38-39) It remains to be seen.

Toto wrote:

davedan wrote:If we see 5$ gas, people are gonna be hurting to buy basic necessities. So much of our economy depends on cheap gas. and it's not hard to imagine hungry people taking to the streets in protest. Protests turn into riots. Then you get martial law and gun confiscation.

Looks like it is picking up steam in Suez.....

Suez Canal workers go on strike
Ahram Online, Tuesday 8 Feb 2011

$5 gas could definitely wake up America from its deep sleep. Would this push American out to the streets? Although the Fed and their cohorts in media claim that the rising cost of food and energy is nothing to worry about, I think that when the average mother and father find it impossible to provide FOOD, shelter and clothing for their families due to food/energy prices skyrocketing, those once peaceful fathers will be looking for their pitchforks...

believer wrote:I think that things will continue going south, but there will not be a total collapse as long as missiounaries are out in the field. There has to be some way of supporting them. If there is a total collapse, that will be impossible. President Monson has been emphasizing the great need for more missionaries. It seems to me that he is trying to greatly increase the number of missionaries being called. Maybe this will be the last roundup so to speak, but it doesn't seem to be over yet.

That being said, if the Muslum world all goes to Muslim and scheria law, with their hatred of Isreal, and the U.S., perhaps Armegeddin might be in a few years. It will take some time to get all of that organized, however. The rest of the Muslim world needs to follow Egypt first.

At least that is the way I see it. In the meantime, the signs will be coming faster and faster.


Believer

I think that this latest call for more missionaries could be a test for the members of the church. I think it's definitely going to be the last roundup before the tribulations. Reminds me of the Lord commanding the early saints to build the Nauvoo temple just to leave it behind.

InfoWarrior82 wrote:Reminds me of the Lord commanding the early saints to build the Nauvoo temple just to leave it behind.

Good point IW.

I thought I would add to Dr. Jones inspired comments.

DrJones wrote:I am getting out of the banks

:ymapplause:

Word on the street is that the coming Bank Holiday will last three months, so I emphasize the wisdom of having (three months) cash on hand. While I don’t believe nuclear war is a viable option for the PTB, I think recent rumors of cyber war and/or natural disasters, possibly future solar activity, are more probable than an EMP as PTB are not exempt from the ramifications of nookular activity.

I finally closed my account at the J.P. Morgue after being as much of burden as possible, but they wanted 14 monetary units of no –Thing, or a 5K balance, just to maintain a free checking account, so I finally ostracized the wicked corporation. (used the balance to acquire some more silver, snicker) It was like a giant weigh was lifted off my shoulders! I always felt like I was walking into a tub of scorpions there, post WAMU.

"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing - When you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors - When you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don‘t protect you against them, but protect them against you - When you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice - You may know that your society is doomed." -- Ayn Rand, "Atlas Shrugged", 1957

Did you know Atlas Shrugged was commissioned by, and all about the Rothschilds?