LDS Freedom Forum

I thought receiving this email from Avraham Gileadi was very timely considering some of the discussions currently going on...

An Endtime Exodus out of Babylon to Zion

by Avraham Gileadi Ph.D.

Of the more than thirty ancient events of which Isaiah predicts endtime versions, one is a new exodus that is patterned after Israel’s exodus out of Egypt and that is similarly followed by a new wandering in the wilderness. The endtime exodus, however, is out of all the world—out of “Babylon”—which is about to be destroyed: “Go forth out of Babylon, flee from Chaldea! Make this announcement with resounding voice; broadcast it to the end of the earth. Say, ‘Jehovah has redeemed his servant Jacob.’ They thirsted not when he led them through arid places: he caused water to flow for them from the rock; he cleaved the rock and water gushed out” (Isaiah 48:20–21).

As the angels led Lot out of Sodom before its destruction, so those who go in the new exodus are led out: “The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought; the godly are gathered out, but no one perceives that from impending calamity the righteous are withdrawn” (Isaiah 57:1). “Come out of her and be pure, you who bear Jehovah’s vessels. But you shall not leave in haste or go in flight: Jehovah will go before you, the God of Israel behind you” (Isaiah 52:11–12). “Let the ransomed of Jehovah return! Let them come singing to Zion, their heads crowned with everlasting joy; let them obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing flee away” (Isaiah 51:11).

2. 2. 2011

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"The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought"... Reminds me of the book "Atlas Shrugged".

"The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought; the godly are gathered out, but no one perceives that from impending calamity the righteous are withdrawn"...

Do you all see this as a physical separation from 'Babylon' at some point? (Perhaps being called out to the New Jerusalem? or?)


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BrianM wrote:I thought receiving this email from Avraham Gileadi was very timely considering some of the discussions currently going on...

An Endtime Exodus out of Babylon to Zion

by Avraham Gileadi Ph.D.

Of the more than thirty ancient events of which Isaiah predicts endtime versions, one is a new exodus that is patterned after Israel’s exodus out of Egypt and that is similarly followed by a new wandering in the wilderness. The endtime exodus, however, is out of all the world—out of “Babylon”—which is about to be destroyed: “Go forth out of Babylon, flee from Chaldea! Make this announcement with resounding voice; broadcast it to the end of the earth. Say, ‘Jehovah has redeemed his servant Jacob.’ They thirsted not when he led them through arid places: he caused water to flow for them from the rock; he cleaved the rock and water gushed out” (Isaiah 48:20–21).

As the angels led Lot out of Sodom before its destruction, so those who go in the new exodus are led out: “The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought; the godly are gathered out, but no one perceives that from impending calamity the righteous are withdrawn” (Isaiah 57:1). “Come out of her and be pure, you who bear Jehovah’s vessels. But you shall not leave in haste or go in flight: Jehovah will go before you, the God of Israel behind you” (Isaiah 52:11–12). “Let the ransomed of Jehovah return! Let them come singing to Zion, their heads crowned with everlasting joy; let them obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing flee away” (Isaiah 51:11).

2. 2. 2011

Subscribe to the Isaiah Report at: http://isaiahreport.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought"... Reminds me of the book "Atlas Shrugged".

"The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought; the godly are gathered out, but no one perceives that from impending calamity the righteous are withdrawn"...

Do you all see this as a physical separation from 'Babylon' at some point? (Perhaps being called out to the New Jerusalem? or?)

Also could be a gathering out via destroying angels - i.e. plague. Everyone is so caught up trying to escape the rotting tongue and eyeballs that they miss who is and isn't sick (quarantine would make that difficult also). Not limited to just plague of course....all the "natural" disasters!

Of the more than thirty ancient events of which Isaiah predicts endtime versions, one is a Sodom and Gomorrah type of destruction. Endtime Babylon will be thrown down “as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah” (Isaiah 13:19). In his oracle addressed to “Babylon,” however, Isaiah defines Babylon as both a people and a place—the “sinners” and the “wicked” of the “earth” and the “world.” He predicts that Jehovah will “make the earth a desolation, that sinners may be annihilated from it.” Jehovah has “decreed calamity for the world, punishment for the wicked.” He will “end the arrogance of insolent men and humble the pride of tyrants” (Isaiah 13:1, 9–13).

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Great topic Brian, I feel that it is very timely.

BrianM wrote: "The righteous disappear, and no man gives it a thought; the godly are gathered out, but no one perceives that from impending calamity the righteous are withdrawn"...

This quote is most interesting. How do people disapper without other people noticing? I suppose a few people could put moving signs out each month and slowly migrate to a gathering location. Perhaps this is happening now and people are unaware. But not everyone at one time, that would be noticed in a neat structured organized society.

I would suggest that in Egypt today, because of the unrest, that many hundreds if not thousands of people could dissappear and nobody would notice. Did anyone notice Lehi's families departure? Or Jareds or Muleks? Times of unrest or mass migrations allow people to disappear and gather without being noticed.

I just hope that if, or when, there is a physical exodus, that I am in-tune with the Spirit enough to receive that guidance from the Lord to know when to go, where to go, etc.

BrianM wrote:I just hope that if, or when, there is a physical exodus, that I am in-tune with the Spirit enough to receive that guidance from the Lord to know when to go, where to go, etc.

...time will tell the story eh?

These verses from D&C 103 are very helpful. It is all in the context of the redemption of Zion and the Saints being in bondage:

15Behold, I say unto you, the redemption of Zion must needs come by power;

16Therefore, I will raise up unto my people a man, who shall lead them like as Moses led the children of Israel.

17For ye are the children of Israel, and of the seed of Abraham, and ye must needs be led out of bondage by power, and with a stretched-out arm.

18And as your fathers were led at the first, even so shall the redemption of Zion be.

19Therefore, let not your hearts faint, for I say not unto you as I said unto your fathers: Mine angel shall go up before you, but not my presence.

20But I say unto you: Mine angels shall go up before you, and also my presence, and in time ye shall possess the goodly land.

BrentL wrote:the physical exodus will take place after the spiritual one.

another case of the first shall be last and the last shall be first? It was the other way around in the first exodus, hence they had to wander 40 years so the old wicked generation would die off. I've kind of seen things unfolding along similar lines (at least that is my perception) that rather than an exodus we will have a cleansing and then the remnant will still have some serious repentance/learning/etc. but you may be right, may need to make the spiritual exodus to even be able to survive the cleansing.

Isaiah makes it clear that a physical exodus WILL take place after a spiritual one. Perhaps this other post by Gileadi will explain it more.

7. Zion—Codename for Persons Who Repent by Avraham Gileadi Ph.D.

Several ideas about Zion exist in the scriptures. Zion was the “citadel” David captured from the Jebusites that became the “City of David” (1 Chronicles 11:4–7). The “holy hill of Zion” was the place where Jehovah dwelt (Psalms 2:6; 9:11). Isaiah’s definition of Zion appears from several literary devices. Forty instances of the name Zion in the Book of Isaiah reveal a literary pattern associated with the name Zion. That pattern consists of Jehovah’s deliverance of his righteous people at the time he destroys the wicked from the earth. This event occurs at the presence of a Davidic king whom Isaiah identifies either directly or indirectly under one of several aliases.

By definition, Zion are those of Jehovah’s people Jacob or Israel who “repent” (Hebrew swb) of transgression (Isaiah 1:27; 59:20). It is also the place to which they “return” (swb) from among the nations in an endtime exodus (Isaiah 35:10; 52:11) at the time the wicked perish. In the Book of Isaiah, Zion, together with Jerusalem, is one of seven spiritual levels or categories of people. They consist of persons who ascend from a Jacob/Israel category to the Zion/Jerusalem category. They receive a remission of their sins when they renew their covenantal allegiance to Jehovah. In the end, the whole world divides into categories who are affiliated with either Zion or Babylon.

I imagine the exodus begins by leaving the world, then you will be invited by the spirit to leave society at the right time. Leaving the world is not an easy thing. Great topic.

Just found a post that gives a good decription of what Babylon looks like.

6. Babylon–Codename for Today’s World by Avraham Gileadi Ph.D.

The use of codenames by ancient prophets who predict endtime events occurs throughout the scriptures. In the Book of Revelation, John uses the name “Babylon” to depict a materialistic socio-economic system that runs a world ripening in wickedness (Revelation 17–18). And yet, in John’s day the empire that once was Babylon no longer existed. Daniel predicts a great world conflict involving the kingdoms of Persia, Greece, and other nations of his day. However, the angel who shows him these things tells him to shut up the words and seal them in a book because they aren’t about Daniel’s day but about the “time of the end” of the world (Daniel 11:1–12:4).

Anciently, the Babylonian empire epitomized an idolatrous, materialistic world civilization. Isaiah combines this model with others to create a composite entity, a kind of “Greater Babylon.” A seven-part literary structure in the Book of Isaiah pulls an entire series of foreign nations and entities that once came under Babylon’s influence into this “Babylon” conglomerate (Isaiah 13–23, 47). Forming a part of this arch entity is Tyre’s ancient worldwide shipping empire (Isaiah 23). It is Isaiah’s model John draws upon in projecting his endtime “Babylon the Great.” Of course, Isaiah’s use of codenames extends beyond the name “Babylon” to all others in his book.

Seems as if we are most definitely living in Babylon!

I appreciate everyone's input on this. great discussion.

I asked Avraham Gileadi for some more insight into this exodus out of babylon and into Zion. Here is his response (more food for thought):

The scripture from Isaiah 57:1 follows the model of the angels taking Lot out of Sodom, which is physical. This begins, or is the prelude to, the new exodus to the New Jerusalem for LDS (see D&C 103:15-20; caution: verse 21 starts an entirely new revelation), for Lehi's descendants, and for the lost Ten Tribes; and to the Old Jerusalem for the Jews (see D&C and TPJS). The new wandering in the wildernes that follows will take some time, so temple building in the New Jerusalem will not start immediately. The new exodus follows three years of warning, an event that has yet to occur, and the wandering in the wilderness will likely be about the same.

I should also like to mention, regarding Gileadi's newsletters, they "attempt to explain different facets of Isaiah's prophecy, so that, over time, people will get the whole picture." This is also the purpose of his books, lectures and seminars. His websites are: http://isaiahreport.com/ and http://josephandjudah.com/ and http://isaiahinstitute.com/

There have been many separations of the righteous before:

1. Abraham flees his father
2. the ancient Isrealites
3. Lehi flees Jerusalem
4. Nephi flees his brothers
5. the first Mosiah flees to Zarahemla
6. Limhi and his people flee the lamanites
7. Alma and his people flee Noah
8. the 10 tribes flee north from Assyria
11. The early saints flee to rocky mountians
12. the early saints from Jerusalem to Pella

This is all I can think of at the moment. No doubt you all will think of many more. It seems to me to be a pattern, that when things get to the point of the destruction of the righteous, the Lord will call us out.

BrianM wrote:I just hope that if, or when, there is a physical exodus, that I am in-tune with the Spirit enough to receive that guidance from the Lord to know when to go, where to go, etc.

Yep and heed the Prophet for he will be the one to lead us

What happens to those who are physically unable to go? (i'm worried about my father and my husband. They couldn't do it.)

I think that those who merit it, no doubt your husband and father, a way will be provided.

kathyn wrote:What happens to those who are physically unable to go? (i'm worried about my father and my husband. They couldn't do it.)

The Lord will provide a way...be at peace sister, He will work his wonders to accomplish his work...

There have been many separations of the righteous before:

1. Abraham flees his father
2. the ancient Isrealites
3. Lehi flees Jerusalem
4. Nephi flees his brothers
5. the first Mosiah flees to Zarahemla
6. Limhi and his people flee the lamanites
7. Alma and his people flee Noah
8. the 10 tribes flee north from Assyria
11. The early saints flee to rocky mountians
12. the early saints from Jerusalem to Pella

This is all I can think of at the moment. No doubt you all will think of many more. It seems to me to be a pattern, that when things get to the point of the destruction of the righteous, the Lord will call us out.

I had a "call-out" that was an amazing experience. Some may poo-poo this, but I testify that it is true.

I have always been on my father's "list" meaning, he has always resented my joining the church and standing up for truth and righteousness. Over the years he has done many unkind and horrible things to me to make my life particularly difficult. Ten years ago, (it is a long story so I won't go into too many details) but I "sensed" something wasn't right. I could feel that something was very wrong with my father towards me but I couldn't get a handle on it. It was a very strong feeling. My husband was looking for a job and got one in AZ. I was left behind to sell the house and settle our affairs. It was during this time, I had this feeling. I was impressed when our house sold and closed in less than 2 months. I was on my way. The day I was to leave, I had a meal with my father and he just "looked" evil. I kept a low profile and left to join my husband in AZ. Everything broke loose in AZ. My father did have a plan and put it into action once I was done. Nothing can be said about it except it left me reeling. It involved a son who attempted suicide. I was beside myself with worry and I could not comprehend why my father had done what he had. I strongly petitioned Heaven in my behalf to understand why a father would do this thing. Oddly enough, on one day when I was crying and trying to figure it out, a knock came on the door and it was the cable guy to install the cable. He saw my Book of Mormon and asked if I was Mormon. I then said yes. Being new in town, I knew no one and so I asked if he too was Mormon, and he replied yes. I then asked if he could give me a blessing. After he was done, he told me where the Temple was and how to get there.

I spent weeks pondering over my "problem" and asking Father why had he brought me to AZ. I received the most amazing answer through the scriptures. One day, as I was flipping through looking for answers, I happened upon this scripture in Abraham.

Abraham 1:16 And his voice was unto me: aAbraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father’s house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;

As I read this, I did a double take,'surely the Lord can't mean me in this scripture, although it fits perfectly.' And so in my doubting heart, I closed the book and reopened it. Miraculously, the book opened to this scripture in Hebrews.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

It was a confirmation to me that the Lord had "called" me out of the land of my father, and into a strange new land. I was at peace about things after that, although, I have great reservations as to my father's intentions even to this day.

So my thoughts are these, that the Lord can "call" us out of the lands into new lands, and we are not even aware that it is all a part of His purposes.

Kathlyn, remember...with the Lord, nothing is impossible. An endtime exodus is to spare the righteous from the Lords judgement. It has nothing to do with who is more "able" to go or not.

The Lord will save His own, and he will even save some in behalf of others. Remember Lot was spared for Abrahams sake. Other righteous individuals can interceed with the Lord on behalf of others. It is part of the gospel. Our Savior has interceeded on all of our behalf with the Father. Parents have often interceeded with the Lord on behalf of their children in the scriptures.

The Lord will not abandon us, it is we who abandon Him.

Songbird, very moving story. Thanks for sharing

Songbird wrote:

kathyn wrote:What happens to those who are physically unable to go? (i'm worried about my father and my husband. They couldn't do it.)

The Lord will provide a way...be at peace sister, He will work his wonders to accomplish his work...

There have been many separations of the righteous before:

1. Abraham flees his father
2. the ancient Isrealites
3. Lehi flees Jerusalem
4. Nephi flees his brothers
5. the first Mosiah flees to Zarahemla
6. Limhi and his people flee the lamanites
7. Alma and his people flee Noah
8. the 10 tribes flee north from Assyria
11. The early saints flee to rocky mountians
12. the early saints from Jerusalem to Pella

This is all I can think of at the moment. No doubt you all will think of many more. It seems to me to be a pattern, that when things get to the point of the destruction of the righteous, the Lord will call us out.

I had a "call-out" that was an amazing experience. Some may poo-poo this, but I testify that it is true.

I have always been on my father's "list" meaning, he has always resented my joining the church and standing up for truth and righteousness. Over the years he has done many unkind and horrible things to me to make my life particularly difficult. Ten years ago, (it is a long story so I won't go into too many details) but I "sensed" something wasn't right. I could feel that something was very wrong with my father towards me but I couldn't get a handle on it. It was a very strong feeling. My husband was looking for a job and got one in AZ. I was left behind to sell the house and settle our affairs. It was during this time, I had this feeling. I was impressed when our house sold and closed in less than 2 months. I was on my way. The day I was to leave, I had a meal with my father and he just "looked" evil. I kept a low profile and left to join my husband in AZ. Everything broke loose in AZ. My father did have a plan and put it into action once I was done. Nothing can be said about it except it left me reeling. It involved a son who attempted suicide. I was beside myself with worry and I could not comprehend why my father had done what he had. I strongly petitioned Heaven in my behalf to understand why a father would do this thing. Oddly enough, on one day when I was crying and trying to figure it out, a knock came on the door and it was the cable guy to install the cable. He saw my Book of Mormon and asked if I was Mormon. I then said yes. Being new in town, I knew no one and so I asked if he too was Mormon, and he replied yes. I then asked if he could give me a blessing. After he was done, he told me where the Temple was and how to get there.

I spent weeks pondering over my "problem" and asking Father why had he brought me to AZ. I received the most amazing answer through the scriptures. One day, as I was flipping through looking for answers, I happened upon this scripture in Abraham.

Abraham 1:16 And his voice was unto me: aAbraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father’s house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;

As I read this, I did a double take,'surely the Lord can't mean me in this scripture, although it fits perfectly.' And so in my doubting heart, I closed the book and reopened it. Miraculously, the book opened to this scripture in Hebrews.

By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

It was a confirmation to me that the Lord had "called" me out of the land of my father, and into a strange new land. I was at peace about things after that, although, I have great reservations as to my father's intentions even to this day.

So my thoughts are these, that the Lord can "call" us out of the lands into new lands, and we are not even aware that it is all a part of His purposes.

Thank you for sharing such a powerful message Songlbird. The Lord knows each of us and desires to help us. Thanks again.

kathyn wrote:What happens to those who are physically unable to go? (i'm worried about my father and my husband. They couldn't do it.)

Maybe they'll be called to "go" somewhere else?! Maybe they'll be called "home". (no offense intended)

In the mean-time we should ALL be doing whatever possible to prepare ourselves spiritually and physically for such things.

In the mean-time we should ALL be doing whatever possible to prepare ourselves spiritually and physically for such things.

Yes, (less time on the computer)

There will be good people whether they be LDS or not seeking safe places and preparing them to shelter even more people, whether they be LDS or not. There will be many places of refuge. Not everyone knows where all of them are. I feel that most of the people who prepare and fill these places MAY be LDS. I think that' it's important to be provident and be prepared spiritually and temporally, in part because people will have to not only store food to eat, but also when to gather to one of these places to be safe.

Just go with me here on speculation. When the Lord visited Moses before Moses went back to Egypt, the whole of the place where Moses was standing was consumed by fire and an earthquake. Could this be a sign of the returning of the Lord perhaps at ADA that a consuming fire, smoke and earthquake appear. I make this question in that Moses was the only one who saw the Lord, and the area was protected by the Lord during the visit. I know the whole of the saints will not know about ADA, but perhaps a few signs will be visible to the saints.

Chapter 3
Ex:3:2- The Lord appears to Moses (1st Vision, ADA?). Lords appearance caused smoke, fire, earthquake

3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Fire Footnote- Exodus 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

:-BD My "exodus" is from the TV to the Temple.

Book of Ruth wrote:Just go with me here on speculation. When the Lord visited Moses before Moses went back to Egypt, the whole of the place where Moses was standing was consumed by fire and an earthquake. Could this be a sign of the returning of the Lord perhaps at ADA that a consuming fire, smoke and earthquake appear. I make this question in that Moses was the only one who saw the Lord, and the area was protected by the Lord during the visit. I know the whole of the saints will not know about ADA, but perhaps a few signs will be visible to the saints.

Chapter 3
Ex:3:2- The Lord appears to Moses (1st Vision, ADA?). Lords appearance caused smoke, fire, earthquake

3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Fire Footnote- Exodus 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Oh, joy! Another acronym to complicate my life, please use English. What the hello is ADA?