LDS Freedom Forum

Elias Returns wrote:I am an ordinance worker in the Boise Idaho Temple, and there are......I repeat, there are only certain places, that certain ordinances should be discussed, and that is not to be the outside of His Holy House in Babylon. We make covenants to this degree, and those that break those covenants I pray that the Lord has mercy upon their souls. There is a reason why we can discuss the Baptismal Ordinance performed there, because if you notice it is conducted and performed at the lowest level in the Temple itself. This is symbolic.

I think this interpretation on personal revelation is taken a bit too far. If personal revelation were the exclusive vehicle we should use when attempting to learn any gospel principle, then why would the Lord say , "And I give unto you a commandment that you shall teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom"?(D&C 88:77) Why would we have general conference, sunday school, and any other form of teaching if we were simply meant to receive personal revelation exclusively?

Doctrine & Covenants 42
12 And again, the elders, priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, in the which is the fulness of the gospel.

13 And they shall observe the covenants and church articles to do them, and these shall be their teachings, as they shall be directed by the Spirit.

14 And the Spirit shall be given unto you by the prayer of faith; and if ye receive not the Spirit ye shall not teach.

15 And all this ye shall observe to do as I have commanded concerning your teaching, until the fulness of my scriptures is given.

Doctrine & Covenants 50
10 And now come, saith the Lord, by the Spirit, unto the elders of his church, and let us reason together, that ye may understand;

11 Let us reason even as a man reasoneth one with another face to face.

12 Now, when a man reasoneth he is understood of man, because he reasoneth as a man; even so will I, the Lord, reason with you that you may understand.

13 Wherefore, I the Lord ask you this question—unto what were ye ordained?

14 To preach my gospel by the Spirit, even the Comforter which was sent forth to teach the truth.

2 Nephi 28
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

31 Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.

buffalo_girl wrote:I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't teach one another. I'm saying that imposing on another person - one's own spiritual insights given in or about the temple - 'corrupts' that other person's opportunity to receive pure insight for him or herself in the temple.

Who is imposing spiritual insights on people around here?

Is there a person on the forum or was there a post where someone was trying to impose their spiritual insights on people?

buffalo_girl wrote:I'm not sure where you got the notion that I receive personal revelation without study, prayer, and gospel discussion.

So what would be the point of imposing something I learned on him?

NOT discussing what we do in the temple allows room for each to experience unprejudiced access to the Holy Spirit's direct communication

I look to Personal Revelation to answer all my questions and allow others the same privilege.

I'm saying that imposing on another person - one's own spiritual insights given in or about the temple - 'corrupts' that other person's opportunity to receive pure insight for him or herself in the temple.

I don't think anyone would argue that the greatest wisdom comes in living principles. But that is a topic for another thread.

ChemtrailWatcher wrote:

I don't think anyone would argue that the greatest wisdom comes in living principles. But that is a topic for another thread.

True. But I believe it is related.

Each person arrives at 'greater' spiritual understanding in his/her own time, according to that particular individual's level of spiritual commitment to living the principles as exemplified in our Savior.

BG I understand exactly where you are coming from.

And we certainly CAN teach each other or provide them with ideas that they are free to investigate, ponder and pray and thus we help them learn something sooner than they otherwise might have. I had the experience many times in martial arts - you teach FAR more effectively when you hint at something,a nd if it arouses their curiosity and then they go out and LEARN what you hinted at on their own - it is a FAR more valuable and ENJOYABLE experience for them than if you just hand over the information. Inisght not struggled for is not appreciated and quite honestly is unlikely to make a permanent impression than if a person is allowed to have their OWN "AHA!" moment.

ChemtrailWatcher wrote:For me personally, I think commentaries and other scholarly articles have their place, and I do appreciate them a lot. I find them really fascinating. I don't believe they're necessary, though. And I don't consider what they have to say as complete gospel truth. I also tend NOT to be a frequent shopper at the local Church bookstore. I prefer to get others' spiritual insights for free if I can. Did the Saviour charge people to learn at His feet? The price for His truth is obedience, not money. But that's another subject I guess....

"Be willing to receive the truth, let it come from whom it may; no difference, not a particle. Just as soon receive the Gospel from Joseph Smith as from Peter, who lived in the days of Jesus. Receive it from one man as soon as another. If God has called an individual and sent him to preach the Gospel that is enough for me to know; it is no matter who it is, all I want is to know the truth (DBY, 11)."

"I want to say to my friends that we believe in all good. If you can find a truth in heaven, earth or hell, it belongs to our doctrine. We believe it; it is ours; we claim it (DBY, 2)."

"Mormonism," so-called, embraces every principle pertaining to life and salvation, for time and eternity. No matter who has it. If the infidel has got truth it belongs to "Mormonism." The truth and sound doctrine possessed by the sectarian world, and they have a great deal, all belong to this Church. As for their morality, many of them are, morally, just as good as we are. All that is good, lovely, and praiseworthy belongs to this Church and Kingdom. "Mormonism" includes all truth. There is no truth but what belongs to the Gospel. It is life, eternal life; it is bliss; it is the fulness of all things in the gods and in the eternities of the gods (DBY, 3).

In a word, if "Mormonism" is not my life, I do not know that I have any. I do not understand anything else, for it embraces everything that comes within the range of the understanding of man. If it does not circumscribe every thing that is in heaven and on earth, it is not what it purports to be (DBY, 2).

[The gospel] embraces all morality, all virtue, all light, all intelligence, all greatness, and all goodness. It introduces a system of laws and ordinances (DBY, 3).

Such a plan incorporates every system of true doctrine on the earth, whether it be ecclesiastical, moral, philosophical, or civil; it incorporates all good laws that have been made from the days of Adam until now; it swallows up the laws of nations, for it exceeds them all in knowledge and purity, it circumscribes the doctrines of the day, and takes from the right and the left, and brings all truth together in one system, and leaves the chaff to be scattered hither and thither (DBY, 3-4).

It is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their Elder Brother, being at their head) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, ... to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every nation, kindred, tongue, and people and bring it to Zion (DBY, 248).

All knowledge and wisdom and every good that the heart of man can desire is within the circuit and circle of the faith we have embraced (DBY, 446).

It embraces every fact there is in the heavens and in the heaven of heavens--every fact there is upon the surface of the earth, in the bowels of the earth, and in the starry heavens; in fine, it embraces all truth there is in all the eternities of the Gods (DBY, 448).

Our religion measures, weighs, and circumscribes all the wisdom in the world--all that God has ever revealed to man. God has revealed all the truth that is now in the possession of the world, whether it be scientific or religious. The whole world are under obligation to him for what they know and enjoy; they are indebted to him for it all, and I acknowledge him in all things (DBY, 2).

It comprehends all true science known by man, angels, and the gods. There is one true system and science of life; all else tends to death. That system emanates from the Fountain of life (DBY, 2).

Truth will abide when error passes away. Life will remain when they who have rejected the words of eternal life are swallowed up in death. I like the truth because it is true, because it is lovely and delightful, because it is so glorious in its nature, and so worthy the admiration, faith and consideration of all intelligent beings in heaven or on the earth (DBY, 9).

I delight in this, because truth is calculated to sustain itself; it is based upon eternal facts and will endure, while all else will, sooner or later, perish (DBY, 11).

Every individual that lives according to the laws that the Lord has given to his people, and has received the blessings that he has in store for the faithful, should be able to know the things of God from the things which are not of God, the light from the darkness, that which comes from heaven and that which comes from somewhere else. This is the satisfaction and the consolation that the Latter-day Saints enjoy by living their religion; this is the knowledge which every one who thus lives possesses (DBY, 35).

How easy it is to live by the truth. Did you ever think of it, my friends? Did you ever think of it, my brethren and sisters? In every circumstance of life, no matter whether among the humble or lofty, truth is always the surest guide and the easiest to square our lives by (DBY, 11).

Our religion is simply the truth. It is all said in this one expression--it embraces all truth, wherever found, in all the works of God and man that are visible or invisible to mortal eye (DBY, 2).

Personally, I prefer to spend most of my time in the scriptures and I have gone over the idea of purchasing books that have spiritual insights, etc. I've come to the conclusion that there isn't anything wrong with people researching a topic or sharing general principles or life experiences that could assist others in their journey. The apostles sell books and so do many others. How many of us spend our money paying $10 a ticket to see a movie just for entertainment when we could spend $10 on a book that explores truths of our existence. Books aren't free to make, they cost money, they used to sell the Book of Mormon to people in the beginning to recoup their costs.

The greatest thing about principles is that they bring everything back to black and white, the place where most of us will find that we agree with one another.