LDS Freedom Forum

Can anyone expand on the sacrament and the passover? I found this:

President Howard W. Hunter, in the Clyde Williams edition of the Teachings of Howard W. Hunter, once characterized the Passover as a "covenant of safety." For Israel there was safety only in the blood of the paschal lamb.

Does partaking of the sacrament each week "mark" you, so that the destroying angels will passover you? Is this how it is a covenant of safety?

Book of Ruth wrote:Can anyone expand on the sacrament and the passover? I found this:

President Howard W. Hunter, in the Clyde Williams edition of the Teachings of Howard W. Hunter, once characterized the Passover as a "covenant of safety." For Israel there was safety only in the blood of the paschal lamb.

Does partaking of the sacrament each week "mark" you, so that the destroying angels will passover you? Is this how it is a covenant of safety?

there may be something in it, but i think having fulfilled the law of moses we are judged/ saved by our obedience, actions, behaviour, rrighteousness, and not outward signs.

christ broke bread and said eat this in remembrance of my body and blood, fulfilling the law of moses

there is reference in teh book of revelation in regards to "hurt not the earth" that cold have reference.

lets not forget when we go to the temple we are blessed and anointed, i'd suggest that is certainly more pertinent to your query

sacrament, no. its a time to reflect, repent, recommit, and remember the saviour

Last fall at our stake conf, the wife which ever seventy was there said something that I have pondered a lot since then. She was quoting Pres. Hinckley who said something about if we would pick just one of the covenants that we have made and focus on it and really make sure we are keeping it totally, our lives would change significantly.

I decided to examine the sacrament since we all renew it so often. My conclusion is that we do not keep even this most basic, foundational covenant. Think about it. Assuming that Lord means what he says then we are promising to ALWAYS remember him. Always. That means all of the time. We are also promising to take his name upon us. And keep his commandments. How many of us actually keep all of the 10 commandments, let alone anything higher? Everytime we take the sacrament we are "witnessing to the Father" that we are going to do these things. I wonder what type of condemnation is bropught on someone when they make a promise to God and then break it.

It makes me consider things a little differently when I hear someone tell me that "as long as they keep their covenants" the Lord will protect them. I think we don't even begin to "keep our covenants" like we should as a people, beginning with this most basic one of the sacrament.

In a talk given by Randall C Bird, he spoke on marking your forehead with righteousness and compared it to the door post during the passover. This talk is on youtube, but I haven't looked for the talk again, but I will soon. He talked about the mark of the beast being voluntary, but that we mark ourselves as we partake of the sacrament. Then I found the statement by Pres. Hunter on the ordinance of safety.

Richard Draper wrote a paper and spoke about how the mark of the beast would be a voluntary thing, and that we would voluntarily mark ourselves to the Lord. Again, I can get the references, just not at the moment.

I'm just wondering if I have been missing something huge as part of the sacrament? With this added knowledge that a protection can be upon you and your families, I would think that members would be anxious to partake of the sacarment, that there would not be a seat left in chapel, and no one would be late. Please feel free to correct my errors!!

One thing I think a lot of people miss is that the "sacrament table" is really a misnomer. It is in reality an altar and the sacrifice (or a representation of Who was sacrificed) is upon that altar in the form of bread and water. When I think of it in this way, I partake with a much greater sense of the importance of the ordinance of which I'm participating.

Here is the link to a talk given by Bro. Randall C Bird. The whole talk is excellent, which is 7 parts on youtube, but this part I have pasted is the specific mention of the sacrament and the mention of "marking ourselves"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm5zyaRf ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For quick reference, Bro. Bird talks about Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

He goes on to talk about the seal of righteousness and how we receive this seal in us when we partake of the sacrament.

I'm taking this as the inward putting of Jesus Christ ALWAYS in our minds remembering and that is the "marking". (Compared to the Mosaic Law of putting the scrolls outwardly on the forehead) I'm not sure, my thoughts are not complete on this subject yet.

Book of Ruth wrote: For quick reference, Bro. Bird talks about Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

He goes on to talk about the seal of righteousness and how we receive this seal in us when we partake of the sacrament.

I'm taking this as the inward putting of Jesus Christ ALWAYS in our minds remembering and that is the "marking". (Compared to the Mosaic Law of putting the scrolls outwardly on the forehead) I'm not sure, my thoughts are not complete on this subject yet.

I think your on the right track. But I don't think that it ends with just taking the sacrament. I think it includes that certainly, but a whole lot more as well. If we look in D&C there are a couple of verses that shed a bit more light on what is required to have "the seal of righteousness".

D&C 76:53-54
53And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

54They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

So we need to be sealed with the holy spirit of promise, and belong to the church of the first born. Then in chapter 77 it tells us how we get sealed and/or come to the church of the firstborn.

D&C 77:11
11-
Q. What are we to understand by sealing the one hundred and forty-four thousand, out of all the tribes of Israel—twelve thousand out of every tribe?
A. We are to understand that those who are sealed are high priests, ordained unto the holy order of God, to administer the everlasting gospel; for they are they who are ordained out of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people, by the angels to whom is given power over the nations of the earth, to bring as many as will come to the church of the Firstborn.

Notice this sealing or ordination is done by angels.

durangout wrote:One thing I think a lot of people miss is that the "sacrament table" is really a misnomer. It is in reality an altar and the sacrifice (or a representation of Who was sacrificed) is upon that altar in the form of bread and water. When I think of it in this way, I partake with a much greater sense of the importance of the ordinance of which I'm participating.

I really like that symbolism. Thank you for pointing it out.

Here is some research I've done on the topic that may be of interest, I love the topic of the sacrament. That was right on about the whole table = altar. The secularization of our language has distorted the meaning of many sacred things.

Here: http://oneclimbs.com/2010/11/08/sacrame ... e-willing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and here: http://oneclimbs.com/2010/08/11/cut-a-covenant/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks again to the corrections in my thinking. I've really appreciated all the help with symbolism of the sacrament. I've been studing Exodus, and the parallels between our world today and the ancient world is uncanny. I'll post a seperate topic on Moses' interaction with the government and the plagues that followed with our day at some point.

Here are a few connections that I've made:

Passover 1st introduction of:
• Bread-symbol of the Body
• Blood- symbol of blood spilt by the Lamb
o Specifically it is the “saving” blood of the Lamb that is spilt that protects the Israelites from death. Physical death at this time, but also symbol of “saving” from the spiritual death that only the Savior can provide.
Exodus:
Chapter 2 vs 11- Moses witness smiting of “Hebrew”
Chapter 3 after the speaking of the Lord in the burning bush, vs 6 “Israelite” remembrance- God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob
Chapter 12: “covenant” that Israelites entire family participated in- same as our sacrament (only ordinance). Israelites did not have baptism to take upon them the name of Christ, the marking of their doorpost marked them as Christ’s covenant people. Outward sign. Our baptismal covenant marks us as Christ’s covenant people, we take His name upon us. Remembrance of this covenant is the Sacrament.

There is an old story about a woman who while crossing the plains blessed the sacrament, apparently there were no priesthood holders with her. I think this was Jerusha Smith? I can't even prove that this story is legit, but I just wondered what is it about the sacrament that would drive a woman to bless it herself. If this story is true, the woman must of had a very serious physical, spiritual need to partake of the sacrament. Can anyone verify this story?

Twice in Alma 5 we are asked if we have received the image of God in our countenances (verses 14 and 19). I believe that the forehead is symbolic of loyalty in Jewish tradition and in this sense, having the image of God in our countenances would signify that we have faith in him, obey his commandments and are loyal to the Savior.

This seems to be what John is referring to when he speaks of having the seal of God on our foreheads. This is just my opinion, but I think interpreting this as referring to the sacrament or to the Church of the Firstborn might be too narrow.

patriotsaint wrote:Twice in Alma 5 we are asked if we have received the image of God in our countenances (verses 14 and 19). I believe that the forehead is symbolic of loyalty in Jewish tradition and in this sense, having the image of God in our countenances would signify that we have faith in him, obey his commandments and are loyal to the Savior.

This seems to be what John is referring to when he speaks of having the seal of God on our foreheads. This is just my opinion, but I think interpreting this as referring to the sacrament or to the Church of the Firstborn might be too narrow.

Yes, you're right, I forgot about this, and my interpretation is way too narrow. Dang, I thought I was finally getting somewhere.