Foreboding

[freedomforall]

freedomfighter,

I would agree with you to the extent that circumstances really would not allow it. But would our hypotheticla person in the rental, if they knew that in 3 months that there would be no food whatsoever available, would they "find a way" to store more than three weeks supply? i.e. stack sacks of wheat in the corner of a room if that was the best they could do?

Most of the "circumstances wouldn't allow it" are only excuses. A legitimate reason would be laws that forbid "hoarding" more than a certain supply of food - andI would be "stretching" said laws to the limit.

Good point. I simply think we need to remember that we all are beggars.

And yet as beggars we are still comanded to provide for out families and be self sufficient. If I was just a beggar I wouldn't need to be self sufficient or provide for anyone (including myself) as everything would be given. Yet I do have to work for that which I recieve.

It all depends on where you fit in with regards to this scripture:
Mosiah 4:16
And also, ye yourselves will succor those that stand in need of your succor; ye will administer of your substance unto him that standeth in need; and ye will not suffer that the beggar putteth up his petition to you in vain, and turn him out to perish.

Only you can answer where your heart is. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, however, I think, according to the cited scripture, we are instructed to be charitable no matter what; we can't always pick and choose who we will help or won't help. We are not to judge others by what they may or may not have done in keeping the commandments, as we read in this scripture:

Moroni 7:18
And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

[Jason]

freedomfighter,

I would agree with you to the extent that circumstances really would not allow it. But would our hypotheticla person in the rental, if they knew that in 3 months that there would be no food whatsoever available, would they "find a way" to store more than three weeks supply? i.e. stack sacks of wheat in the corner of a room if that was the best they could do?

Most of the "circumstances wouldn't allow it" are only excuses. A legitimate reason would be laws that forbid "hoarding" more than a certain supply of food - andI would be "stretching" said laws to the limit.

We ARE all beggars.....but we are also supposed to be profitable servants that heed the Master's call. The upper brass have been pushing food storage for how long?

I've been renting for years waiting for the bottom to fall out of the real estate market (looking like another 6 to 12 months locally)....and in past rentals we've had closets stacked to the ceiling with 5 gal buckets.....a stack of 5 gal buckets to the ceiling (4 to 5) behind every bedroom door (that little corner that never gets used)....and myriad other places like a layer under a bed or that the bed rests upon.

Sure there are circumstances where people have done all they can do and will be in desperate need of assistance.....and we heed the Master's call.

That said, the events ahead of us may place us in such a situation that we are all bunkered down in our houses for a time. I had never really considered the aspect of the plague in such detail prior to reading Cleon Skousen's "Cleansing of America". It would basically shut everyone (righteous and wicked) in a voluntary and forced quarantine situation for a period of time that not only would weed out a good portion of the wicked (without them trampling over the righteous in the process) but also break the back of the conspiracy as everything grinds to a halt due to the quarantine gridlock (no people to do anything like drive trucks across the country full of food, fuel, and goods).

I'll type out an excerpt from the book -

The prophets not only predicted that there would be a thorough cleansing of America, but they described how it would occur. The Lord's cleansing will include the destabilizing impact of earthquakes, tornadoes, famine, riots, and civil strife. But the primary destruction will come from a massive, cataclysmic plague. The Lord refers to it as an "overflowing" or "desolating scourge." The Bubonic Plague wiped out nearly half of Europe in a very short time, but the plague predicted for the cleansing of America sounds far worse.

Here is the way the Lord speaks of it:

"And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth amount them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fullness of my gospel; But they receive it not' for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.

"And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass til they shall see an OVERFLOWING SCOURGE; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land."

This overflowing scourge is intended to cleanse and scour America of its wickedness. Therefore, the Lord said to the members of the restored Church in modern times:

...

"All the wicked shall mourn. For behold, and lo, vengeance cometh speedily upon the ungodly as the whirlwind; and who shall escape it?

"The Lord's SCOURGE shall pass over by night and by day, and the report thereof shall vex all people."

Pg. 12
Bold and Underline mine

Cleon then launches into the prophecy of it beginning upon MY HOUSE....then the vision of John Taylor -

I [] went to bed at my usual hour half past nine o'clock. I had been reading the Revelations in the French language. My mind was Calm, more so than usual if possible to be so. I Composed myself for sleep but Could not sleep. I felt a strange stupor Come over me and apparently became partially unconscious. Still I was not asleep, nor awake With stange far away dreamy feelings.

The first I recognized was that I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden sitting on the back seat in the Corner for fear they would Call upon me to Preach, which after singing the second time, they did, by Calling me to the Stand.

I arose to speak and said I did not Know that I had anything special to say Except to bear my Testimony to the Truth of the Latter Day work when all at once it seemed as though I was lifted out of myself, and I said "Yes, I have sumthing to say, it is this--some of my brethren present have been asking me what is Coming to pass, what is the wind blowing up. I will answer you right here what is Coming to pass shortly.

I was imediately in Salt lake City wandering about the streets in all parts of the City and On the door of every house I found a badge of mourning, and I Could not find a house but what was in mourning. I passed by my own house and saw the same sign there, and asked, 'Is that me that is dead?' Sumthing gave me answer, 'No, you [shall] live through it all.'

It seemed strange to me that I saw no person [on] the street in my wandering about through the City. They seemed to be in their houses with their Sick and Dead. I saw no funeral procession, or any thing of that kind, but the City looked very Still and quiet as though the people were praying and had Controll of the disease what ever it was.

I then look in all directions over the Territory, East west North and South, and I found the same mourning in every place throughout the Land. The next I knew I was Just this side of Omaha. It seemed as though I was above the Earth, looking down to it as I passed along on my way East and I saw the roads full of people, principally women, with just what they Could Carry in bundles on their backs traveling to the mountains on foot. And I wondered how they Could get there, with nothing but a small pack upon their backs. It was remarkable to me that there were so few men among them. It did not seem as though the Cars were running. The rails looked rusty, and the road abandoned, And I have no conception how I traveled myself.

As I looked down upon the people I Continued Eastward through Omaha and Council Bluffs which were full of disease, and women every whare. The States of Missouri and Illinois were in turmoil and Strife, Men killing each other, and women joining in the fight, family against family Cutting each other to pieces in the most horrid manner.

The next I was was Washington, and I found the City a desolation. The White House Empty, the Halls of Congress the same Everything in ruins. The people seemed to have fled from the City and left it to take Care of itself.

I was next in the City of Baltimore and in the square where the Monument of 1812 Stands, in front of St. Charles and other Hotels I saw the Dead piled up so high as to fill the square. I saw Mothers Cut the throats of their own Children for the sake of their blood, which they drank from their veins to quench their thirst and then lie down and die. The water of the Chesapeake and of the City were so stagnant and such a stench arose from them on account of the putrefaction of Dead bodies that the very smell Caused Death and that was singular again I saw no men except they were dead, lying in the streets, and vary few women, and they were Crazy mad, and in a dying Condition. Every whare I went I beheld the same all over the City, And it was horrible, beyond description to look at.

I thought this must be the End. But No I was seemingly in Philadelphia, and there every thing was Still. No living soul was to be seen to greet me, and it seemed as though the whole City was without an inhabitant. In arch and Chestnut Street and in fact Every whare I went the putrefaction of the Dead bodies Caused such a stench that it was impossible for any Creature to Exhist alive, nor did I see any living thing in the city.

I next found myself in Broad way New York and here it seemed the people had done their best to overcome the disease. But in wandering down Broadway I saw the bodies of Beautiful women lying stone dead, and others in a dying Condition on the side walk. I saw men Crawl out of the Cellars and rob the dead bodies of the valuables they had on and before they Could return to their coverts in the cellars they themselves would roll over a time or two and die in agony.

On some of the back street I saw Mothers kill their own Children and Eat raw flesh and then in a few minutes die themselves. Wharever I went I saw the same scenes of Horror and Desolation rapine and Death. No Horses or Carriages, No busses or Street Cars, but Death and Destruction every whare.

I then went to the Grand Central Park and looking back I saw a fire Start and just at that moment a mighty East wind sprang up and Carried the flames west over the City, and it burned untill there was not a single building left Standing whole Even down to the wharfs. And the shipping all seemd to be burned and swallowed up in the Common destruction and left Nothing but a Desolation whare the great City was a short time before. The Stench from the bodies that were burning was so great that it Carried a great distance across the Hudson River and bay, and thus spread disease and death wharever the flames penetrated. I Cannot paint in words the Horror that seemed to Encompass me around. It was beyond description or thought of man to Conceive.

I supposed this was the End but I was here given to understand, that the same horror was being enacted all over the Country, North South East and West, that few were left alive. Still there were some.

Immediately after I seemed to be standing on the west bank of the Missouri River opposite the City of Independence but I saw no City. I saw the whole States of Missouri & Illinois and part of Iowa were a Complete wilderness with no living human being in them. I then saw a short distance from the river Twelve men dressed in the robes of the Temple Standing in a square or nearly so. I understood it represented the Twelve gates of the New Jerusalem, and they were with hands uplifted Consecrating the ground and laying the Corner Stones. I saw myriads of Angels hovering over them and around about them and also an immens pillar of a Cloud over them and I heard the singing of the most beautif[ul] music the words 'Now is established the Kingdom of our God and His Christ, and He shall reign forever and Ever, and the Kingdom shall never the Thrown down for the Saints have overcome.' And I saw people Coming from the River and different places along way off to help build the Temple, and it seemed that the Hosts of the angels also helped to get the material to build the Temple. And I saw some Come who wore their Temple...robs to help build the Temple and the City and all the time I saw the great pillar of Cloud hovering over the place.

Instantly I found I was in the Tabernacle at Ogden yet I Could see the building going on and got quite animated in Calling to the people in the Tabernacle to listen to the beautiful music that the Angels were Making. I Called to them to look at the Angels as the House seemed to be full of them and they were saying the same words that I heard Before 'Now is the Kingdom of our God Esstablished forever & Ever.' And then a voice said 'Now shall Come to pass that which was spoken by Isaiah the Prophet 'that seven women shall take hold of one man, saying &c (Isaiah 4:1). ['And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by they name, to take away our reproach.']

At this time I seemed to Stagger back from the pulpit & F D Richards and some one els Caught me and prevented me from falling when I requested Brother Richards to apologize to the audience for me because I stoped so adruptly and tell them I had not feinted but was exhausted. I rolled over in my bed and heard the City Hall Clock Strike Twelve.

http://mysite.verizon.net/pulsar/Librar ... ction.html

and Wilford Woodruff -

You will say: That was in the days when Presidents Benson and Maughan presided over us; that was before New York was destroyed by an earthquake; it was before Boston was swept into the sea, by the sea heaving itself beyond its bounds; it was before Albany was destroyed by fire; yea, at that time you will remember the scenes of this day. Treasure them up and forget them not.”

http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/GenlAuthor ... any_WW.pdf

and Orson Pratt -

This great war is only a small degree of chastisement, just the beginning; nothing compared to that which God has spoken concerning this nation, if they will not repent. For the Lord has said in this book, (the Book of Mormon) which has been published for thirty eight years, that if they will not repent He will throw down all their strongholds and cut off the cities of the land, and will execute vengeance and fury on the nation, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard. That He will send a desolating scourge on the land; that He will leave their cities desolate, without inhabitants. For instance the great, powerful and populous city of New York, that may be considered one of the greatest cities of the world, will in a few years become a mass of ruins. The people will wonder while gazing on the ruins that cost hundreds of millions to build, what has become of its inhabitants. Their houses will be there, but they will be left desolate. So saith the Lord God. That will be only a sample of numerous other towns and cities on the face of this continent.

http://jod.mrm.org/12/338
http://books.google.com/books?id=3Rc47F ... rk&f=false

and of course Patriarch Charles D. Evans -

Charles D. Evans was a church patriarch, in the 1890's, while living in Springville, Utah.

While I lay pondering in deep solitude on the events of the present, my mind was drawn into a reverie such as I had never felt before,--a strong solicitude for my imperiled country utterly excluded every other thought, and raised my feelings to a point of intensity which I did not think it possible to endure.

While in this solemn, profound, and painful reverie of mind, to my infinite surprise, a light appeared in my room, which seemed to be soft and silvery as that diffused from a northern star. At the moment of its appearance, the acute feeling I had experienced instantly yielded to one of calm tranquility.

Although it may have been at the hour of midnight, and the side of the globe whereon I was situated, was excluded from the sunlight, yet all was light and bright and warm as an Italian landscape at noon, but the heat was softer or more subdued.

As I gazed upward, I saw descending through my bedroom roof, with a gently gliding movement, a personage clothed in white apparel, whose countenance was smoothly serene, his features regular, and the flashes of his eye seemed to shoot forth scintillations, to use an earthly comparison, strongly resembling those reflected from a diamond under an intensely illumined electric light, which dazzled but did not bewilder.

Those large, deep, inscrutable eyes were presently fixed upon mine, when instantly placing his hands up on my forehead his touch produced an indescribable serenity and calmness, a calmness not born of earth, but at once peaceful, delightful and heavenly. My whole being was imbued with a joy unspeakable. All feelings of sorrow instantly vanished. Those lines and shadows which care and sorrow impress upon us were dispelled as a deep fog before a blazing sun.

In the eyes of my heavenly visitor, for such he appeared to me, there was a sort of lofty pity and tenderness, infinitely stronger than any such feeling I ever saw manifested in ordinary mortals. His very calm appeared like a vast ocean stillness, at once overpowering to every agitated emotion.

By some intuition, or instinct, I felt he had something to communicate to sooth my sorrows and allay my apprehensions. Thereupon addressing me, he said:

"Son, I perceive thou hast grave anxieties over the perilous state of thy country, that thy soul has felt deep sorrow for its future. I have therefore come to thy relief and to tell thee of the causes that have led to this peril. Hear me attentively.

"Seventy-one years ago [1823], after an awful apostasy of centuries, in which all nations were enshrouded in spiritual darkness, when the angels had withdrawn themselves, the voice of prophets hushed, and the light of Urim and Thummim shown not, and the vision of the seers closed, while heaven itself shed not a ray of gladness to lighten a dark world, when Babel ruled and Satan laughed, and Church and Priesthood had taken their upward flight, and the voice of nations, possessing the books of the Jewish prophets, had ruled against vision and against Urim, against the further visits of angels, and against the doctrine of a church of apostles and prophets, thou knowest that then appeared a mighty angel with the solemn announcement of the hour of judgment, the burden of whose instructions pointed to dire calamities upon the present generation. This, therefore, is the cause of what thou seest and the end of the wicked hasteneth."

My vision now became extended in a marvelous manner, and the import of the past labors of the Elders was made plain to me. I saw multitudes fleeing to the place of safety in our mountain heights. The church was established in the wilderness. Simultaneously the nation had reached an unparalleled prosperity, wealth abounded, new territory was acquired, commerce extended, finance strengthened, confidence was maintained, and peoples abroad pointed to her as the model nation--the ideal of the past realized and perfected--the embodiment of the liberty sung by poets and sought for by sages.

"But," continued the Messenger, "thou beholdest a change. Confidence is lost, wealth is arrayed against labor, labor against wealth, yet the land abounds with plenty of food and raiment, and silver and gold are in abundance. Thou seest also the letters written by a Jew have wrought great confusion in the finances of the nation which, together with the policy of many wealthy ones, has produced distress and do produce further sorrow."

Factions now sprang up as if by magic; capital had entrenched itself against labor throughout the land; labor was organized against capital. The voice of the wise sought to tranquilize these two powerful factors in vain. Excited multitudes ran wildly about; strikes increased; lawlessness sought the place of regular government.

At this juncture I saw a banner floating in air whereupon was written the words, "BANKRUPTCY, FAMINE, FLOODS, FIRE, CYCLONES, BLOOD, PLAGUE." Mad with rage, men and women rushed upon each other. Blood flowed down the streets of cities like water. The demon of bloody hate had enthroned itself on the citadel of reason; the thirst for blood was more intense than that of the parched tongue for water. Thousands of bodies lay untombed in the streets. Men and women fell dead from the terror inspired by fear. Rest was but the precursor of the bloody work of the morrow. All around lay the mournfulness of a past in ruins. Monuments erected to perpetuate the names of the noble and brave were ruthlessly destroyed by combustibles.

A voice now sounded aloud these words, "Yet once again I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word yet once again signifies the removing of things that are shaken, as of things that are made; that those things that cannot be shaken may remain."

Earthquakes rent the earth in vast chasms, which engulfed multitudes; terrible groanings and wailings filled the air; the shrieks of the suffering were indescribably awful. Water wildly rushed in from the tumultuous ocean, whose very roaring under the mad rage of the fierce cyclone, was unendurable to the ear. Cities were swept away in an instant, missiles were hurled through the atmosphere at a terrible velocity, and people were carried upward only to descend an unrecognizable mass. Islands appeared where ocean waves once tossed the gigantic steamer. In other parts, voluminous flames emanating from vast fires, rolled with fearful velocity, destroying life and property in their destructive course.

The seal of the dread menace of despair was stamped on every human visage; men fell exhausted, appalled and trembling. Every element of agitated nature seemed a demon of wrathful fury. Dense clouds, blacker than midnight darkness, whose thunders reverberated with intonations which shook the earth, obscured the sunlight. Darkness reigned unrivaled and supreme.

Again the light shone, revealing an atmosphere tinged with a leaden hue, which was the precursor of an unparalleled plague, whose first symptoms were recognized by a purple spot which appeared on the cheek or on the back of the hand, and which, invariably, enlarged until it spread over the entire surface of the body, producing certain death. Mothers, on sight of it, cast away their children as if they were poisonous reptiles. This plague, in grown persons, rotted the eyes in their sockets and consumed the tongue as would a powerful acid or an intense heat. Wicked men, suffering under its writhing agonies, cursed God and died, as they stood on their feet, and the birds of prey feasted on their carcasses.

I saw in my dream the Messenger again appear with a vial in his right hand, who addressing me, said: "Thou knowest somewhat of the chemistry taught in the schools of human learning, behold now a chemical sufficiently powerful to change the waters of the sea."

He then poured out his vial upon the sea and it became putrid as the blood of a dead man, and every living soul therein died. Other plagues followed which I forbear to record.

A foreign power had inroaded the nation, which, from every human indication, it appeared would seize the government and supplant it with monarchy. I stood trembling at the aspect, when, lo, a power arose in the west which declared itself in favor of the Constitution in its original form; to this suddenly rising power, every lover of constitutional rights and liberties throughout the nation gave hearty support. The struggle was fiercely contested, but the Stars and Stripes floated in the breeze, and bidding defiance to all opposition, waved proudly over the land.

Among the many banners I saw, was one inscribed thus: "The government based on the Constitution, now and forever"; on another, "Liberty of Conscience, Social, Religious, and Political."

The light of the Gospel which had but dimly shone because of abomination, now burst forth with a lustre that filled the earth. Cities appeared in every direction, one of which, in the center of the continent, was an embodiment of architectural science after the pattern of eternal perfections, whose towers glittered with a radiance emanating from the sparkling of emeralds, rubies, diamonds, and other precious stones set in a canopy of gold, and so elaborately and skillfully arranged as to shed forth a brilliancy which dazzled and enchanted the eye, excited admiration and developed a taste for the beautiful, beyond anything man had ever conceived.

Fountains of crystal water shot upwards their transparent jets, which, in the brilliant sunshine, formed ten thousand rainbow tints at once delightful to the eye. Gardens, the perfection of whose arrangement confound all our present attempts at genius, were bedecked with flowers of varied hue to develop and refine the taste and strengthen a love for these nature's chastest adornments.

Schools and universities were erected, to which all had access; in the latter, Urims were placed for the study of the past, present, and future, and for obtaining a knowledge of the heavenly bodies, and of the construction of worlds and universes. The inherent properties of matter, its arrangements, laws, and mutual relations were revealed and taught and made plain as the primer lesson of a child. The conflicting theories of geologists regarding the foundation and age of the earth were settled forever. All learning was based on eternal certainty. Angels brought forth the treasures of knowledge which had laid hid in the womb of the dumb and distant past.

The appliances for making learning easy surpass all conjecture. Chemistry was rendered extremely simple, by the power which the Urims conferred on man of looking into and through the very elements of every kind; a stone furnished no more obstruction to human vision than the air itself. Not only were the elements and all their changes and transformations plainly understood, but the construction, operations and laws of mind were thus rendered equally plain as those which governed the coarser elements.

While looking through the Urim and Thummim, I was amazed at a transformation, which even now is to me marvelous beyond description, clearly showing the manner in which particles composing the inorganic kingdom of nature are conducted upward to become a part of organic forms; another astounding revelation was a view clearly shown me of the entire circulation of the blood, both in man and animals.

After seeing these things and gazing once more upon the beautiful city, the following passage of scripture sounded in my ears: "OUT OF ZION, THE PERFECTION OF BEAUTY, GOD SHINETH."

On this I awoke to find all a dream. I have written the foregoing, which is founded on true principle, under the caption of a dream, partly to instruct and partly to check the folly of reading silly novels now so prevalent.

CHARLES D. EVANS

Springville, Utah

http://www.reliefmine.com/component/con ... ees-future
Bold and Underline mine

also printed in The Contributor, Vol. 15, No. 10 August, 1894, pp. 638-641

...followed by some scripture -

And there shall be weeping and wailing among the hosts of men;

And there shall be a great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth.

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/29?lang=eng

And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.

But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.

And there shall be earthquakes also in divers places, and many desolations; yet men will harden their hearts against me, and they will take up the sword, one against another, and they will kill one another.

And now, when I the Lord had spoken these words unto my disciples, they were troubled.

And I said unto them: Be not troubled, for, when all these things shall come to pass, ye may know that the promises which have been made unto you shall be fulfilled.

And when the alight shall begin to break forth, it shall be with them like unto a parable which I will show you—

Ye look and behold the fig trees, and ye see them with your eyes, and ye say when they begin to shoot forth, and their leaves are yet tender, that summer is now nigh at hand;

Even so it shall be in that day when they shall see all these things, then shall they know that the hour is nigh.

And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man.

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45?lang=eng
bold mine

And thus, with the sword and by bloodshed the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; and with famine, and plague, and earthquake, and the thunder of heaven, and the fierce and vivid lightning also, shall the inhabitants of the earth be made to feel the wrath, and indignation, and chastening hand of an Almighty God, until the consumption decreed hath made a full end of all nations;

http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/87?lang=eng

And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. The people of the Lord, those who have complied with the requirements of the new covenant, have already commenced gathering together to Zion, which is in the state of Missouri; therefore I declare unto you the warning which the Lord has commanded to declare unto this generation, remembering that the eyes of my Maker are upon me, and that to him I am accountable for every word I say, wishing nothing worse to my fellow-men than their eternal salvation; therefore, "Fear God, and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." Repent ye, repent ye, and embrace the everlasting covenant, and flee to Zion, before the overflowing scourge overtake you, for there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled. Remember these things; call upon the Lord while He is near, and seek Him while He may be found, is the exhortation of your unworthy servant.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/P ... swept_away

....needless to say I don't know how it will exactly unfold....but I can envision a situation where everyone is hunkered down living on food storage and I think fear will keep most from leaving their homes except for the utter need of food....and then it may be shoot first ask questions later in terms of law enforcement during a mandatory quarantine. Food for thought....

[lost ark]

Nephi tells us that the Lord will not give us any commandments that we cannot keep. We have to have to faith to keep them first, sometimes without knowing how it will be done, but acting nonetheless.

We lived in tiny apartments for our first three years, but since within about two months of our marriage, we have always had a year's supply of food. I had a year's supply when we married; DH did not. His family did, but I, perhaps recklessly, decided I'd rather build up our own supply than take the 20-year-old stuff from his house. We used wedding gift funds to build our supply up to where it needed to be.

The only people excused from storing food are children who are still dependent on their parents, missionaries, and those who live in areas where laws specifically prohibit it. If it wasn't crystal clear beforehand, the March 2009 Ensign should have eliminated any misunderstanding.

Yes, we are all beggars. No doubt about it. But just because we are beggars does not mean that we can ignore the counsel to provide for our own families and to prepare for prophesied calamities and think that someone else will prepare for us. If someone lacks storage space, he can ask to store food at another member's house. Problem solved. Or come up with some other solution.

We know what many of the disasters that have been prophesied are. What we don't know is how exactly many of them will come about. Disease could result in quarantine. Nobody goes anywhere. It becomes illegal to even open a door. Skyrocketing fuel prices keep people from going anywhere. EMP. Martial law. Not everybody lives in Utah and within walking distance of the rest of the ward. Some of us are a bit more remote.

In 1918-1920, when the Spanish flu was making the rounds, people were so ill that they couldn't go beg for food. They could barely move. Children starved because there was no one to feed them. Had there been food in the house, the situation would have been different.

[lost ark]

Nice quotes there, Mummy.

[Jason]

Nice quotes there, Mummy.

Thank you....actually can thank Cleon Skousen for putting the group together and connecting the dots!

[waking]

It is an amazing read. I think it will happen in rapid timeframe (atleast I hope it will).

[freedomforall]

So what is the concensus? Is the "cleansing of America" to take place at some point...and then the Constitution restored way before the second coming, or is the "cleansing of America" to take place...along with the Great Battle in the Valley of Decision, just prior to the second coming? Or is there another point of view altogether?

[Squally]

delete

[Jason]

So what is the concensus? Is the "cleansing of America" to take place at some point...and then the Constitution restored way before the second coming, or is the "cleansing of America" to take place...along with the Great Battle in the Valley of Decision, just prior to the second coming? Or is there another point of view altogether?

It seems logical to me that the "cleansing of America" must take place prior to the restoration of the Constitution since the Constitution is worthless w/o a righteous people as the founders have stated. The way before part is relative....could take place in a matter of weeks or months....or it could take years as others suppose....your guess is as good as mine!

[Jason]

It is an amazing read. I think it will happen in rapid timeframe (atleast I hope it will).

Amen!!!

[Squally]

That said, the events ahead of us may place us in such a situation that we are all bunkered down in our houses for a time. I had never really considered the aspect of the plague in such detail prior to reading Cleon Skousen's "Cleansing of America". It would basically shut everyone (righteous and wicked) in a voluntary and forced quarantine situation for a period of time that not only would weed out a good portion of the wicked (without them trampling over the righteous in the process) but also break the back of the conspiracy as everything grinds to a halt due to the quarantine gridlock (no people to do anything like drive trucks across the country full of food and goods).

We know what many of the disasters that have been prophesied are. What we don't know is how exactly many of them will come about. Disease could result in quarantine. Nobody goes anywhere. It becomes illegal to even open a door. Skyrocketing fuel prices keep people from going anywhere. EMP. Martial law.

Reading comments of the plague reminds me of something that happened to me. (I previously had shared this on another thread). This past year I was shopping at a large newly built wholesale wharehouse club (Sam's). Suddenly in my mind I had vivid vision/dream?! I was in this same store, but I was alone inside the store looking around. As I glanced around I saw the store completely abandoned and empty of all people, I had the distinct impression the store had been locked, shuttered & secured----but yet it had been abondoned for a time, or perhaps indefinately. Most of the shelves still sat full of goods. A few things had been knocked off the shelves, but most of the goods just looked untouched; electronics, office equipment, etc. I thought it interesting and strange, and afterward I pondered/wondered why a store would sit full but shuttered and abandoned unless there was a really good reason.

[ChelC]

Hey ChelC! i need to ask you a question about one of your posts from a while back. are you still reading this thread?

Yep. What's up?

[Jason]

That said, the events ahead of us may place us in such a situation that we are all bunkered down in our houses for a time. I had never really considered the aspect of the plague in such detail prior to reading Cleon Skousen's "Cleansing of America". It would basically shut everyone (righteous and wicked) in a voluntary and forced quarantine situation for a period of time that not only would weed out a good portion of the wicked (without them trampling over the righteous in the process) but also break the back of the conspiracy as everything grinds to a halt due to the quarantine gridlock (no people to do anything like drive trucks across the country full of food and goods).

We know what many of the disasters that have been prophesied are. What we don't know is how exactly many of them will come about. Disease could result in quarantine. Nobody goes anywhere. It becomes illegal to even open a door. Skyrocketing fuel prices keep people from going anywhere. EMP. Martial law.

Reading comments of the plague reminds me of something that happened to me. (I previously had shared this on another thread). This past year I was shopping at a large newly built wholesale wharehouse club (Sam's). Suddenly in my mind I had vivid vision/dream?! I was in this same store, but I was alone inside the store looking around. As I glanced around I saw the store completely abandoned and empty of all people, I had the distinct impression the store had been locked, shuttered & secured----but yet it had been abondoned for a time, or perhaps indefinately. Most of the shelves still sat full of goods. A few things had been knocked off the shelves, but most of the goods just looked untouched; electronics, office equipment, etc. I thought it interesting and strange, and afterward I pondered/wondered why a store would sit full but shuttered and abandoned unless there was a really good reason.

Yes I can easily envision store owners buttoning up properties with the intention of riding things out for a couple of weeks and then returning to daily business operations. Would probably even be mandatory or government initiated.

In terms of timing, IF the scrolls are correct it would probably occur prior to December 2011...whether that is a month before, two months, or just weeks....who knows. Here is the framework that I base my timing perspective on (not including the scrolls which I cannot do in this format - come visit me this coming Saturday for more on that) for whatever its worth...

The plans are in place (and have been in development for decades - Operation Gardenplot, REX 84, FEMA, NORTHCOM, SPP, new age peace movement, etc.) and the go live date (imo) is 2012.....which means we haven't got much time left. As you can see from Obama's executive order posted here -
http://yophat.blogspot.com/2010/01/exec ... rnors.html

Which means 2011 is going to be a big year and would also align with the scroll dates!

You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.

- J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58

“Our great Constitution has been beaten and torn until now it hangs by a single thread, and that thread is our franchise to vote.”

-Ezra Taft Benson, 1976, Freeman Institute, Provo, Utah

It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—“The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.”

Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the “Mormon” elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.

– Brigham Young, JD 2:182, February 18, 1855, Latter Day Prophets Speaks. Pg. 230

When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations. This is part of the program and as long as we do what is right and fear God He will help us and stand by us under all circumstances.

– John Taylor, JD 21:8, August 31, 1879

Brethren and sisters, let me say in closing that we have it of record, that the prophet Joseph Smith said the time will come when, through secret organizations taking the law into their own hands, not being governed by law or by due process of law, but becoming a law unto themselves, when, by those disintegrating activities, the Constitution of the United States would be so torn and rent asunder, and life and property and peace and security would be held of so little value, that the Constitution would, as it were, hang by a thread. But he never said, so far as I have heard, that that thread would be cut. I believe, with Elder Richards, that this Constitution will be preserved, but it will be preserved very largely in consequence of what the Lord has revealed and what this people, through listening to the Lord and being obedient, will help to bring about, to stabilize and give permanency and effect to the Constitution itself. That also is our mission. That also is what we are here for. I glory in it. I praise god with all my heart and soul that I am a member of it.

- Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1923, p. 62

The Lord's comments on the establishment of a king or dictatorship upon this promised land -

But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles shall be blessed upon the land.

And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the Gentiles.

And I will fortify this land against all other nations.

And he that fighteth against Zion shall perish, saith God.

For he that raiseth up a king against me shall perish, for I, the Lord, the king of heaven, will be their king, and I will be a light unto them forever, that hear my words.

Wherefore, for this cause, that my covenants may be fulfilled which I have made unto the children of men, that I will do unto them while they are in the flesh, I must needs destroy the secret works of darkness, and of murders, and of abominations.

Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God.

http://lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10?lang=eng


....some insights on the prerequisites from the founding fathers...

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

- Thomas Jefferson

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

- Thomas Jefferson

We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

- John Adams, The Changing Political Thought of John Adams, Howe, p. 189

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious they have more need of masters.

- Benjamin Franklin, Speech at the Constitutional Convention, Sept. 17, 1787

A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.

- Benjamin Franklin

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt.

- Samuel Adams

.....and with those precepts apply them to the following comments on the Constitution...

"….As we have progressed the mist has been removed, and in relation to these matters, the Elders of Israel begin to understand that they have something to do with the world politically as well as religiously, that it is as much their duty to study correct political principles as well as religious, and to seek to know and comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interest of the world.”

- John Taylor 1862, JD-9:340

“It is time, therefore, that every American, and especially every member of the priesthood, became informed about the aims, tactics, and schemes of socialistic-communism. This becomes particularly important when it is realized that communism is turning out to be the earthly image of the plan which Satan presented in the pre-existence. The whole program of socialistic- communism is essentially a war against God and the plan of salvation—the very plan which we fought to uphold during ‘the war in heaven.’”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Secret Combinations, Conference Report, October 1961

“Any Christian constitutionalist who retreats from this battle jeopardizes his life here and hereafter. Seldom has so much responsibility hung on so few, so heavily; but our numbers are increasing, and we who have been warned have a responsibility to warn our neighbor.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 591

“Those who subscribe to this [totalitarian] philosophy stop at nothing to achieve their ends...force, trickery, lies, broken promises, mayhem, and individual and mass murder.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1960

....and the judgments (comments in addition to what was posted previously)....

"All that you know now can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain and fearful destruction. What matters the destruction of a few railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth entombing its inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing many cities. Famine will spread over the nation, and nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom, states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands."

Brigham Young - Modin, D.: & Comstock, Tamara: Prophecy 1973-2000; 1972, Hermes House

"What then will be the condition of the people when the great and dreadful war will come? It will be very different from the war between the North and South. It will be neighborhood against neighborhood, city against city, town against town, state against state, and they will go forth destroying and being destroyed. Manufacturing will almost cease, great cities will be left desolate. The time will come when the great city of New York will be left without inhabitants...

"When that day shall come (when the missionaries will be called home) there shall be wars, not such wars as have come in centuries and years that are past and gone, but a dsolating war. When I say desolating, I mean that it will lay these european nations in waste. Cities will be left vacated, without inhabitants. The people will be destroyed by the sword of their own hands. Not only this but many other cities will be burned; for when contending armies are wrought up with the terrible anger, without the Spirit of God upon them, when they have not that spirit of humanity that now characterizes many of the wars amongst nations, when they are left to themselves, there will be no quarter given, no prisoners taken, but a war of destruction, of desolation, of the burning of the cities and villages, until the land is laid desolate."

- Orson Pratt (J. Disc. 20: 150)

"The way ahead is dark and dreary and dreadful. There will yet be martyrs; the doors in Carthage shall again enclose the innocent. We have not been promised that the trials and evils of the world will entirely pass us by.”

“This is the great day of Satan’s power. Gadianton robbers fill the judgment seats in many nations. For those who finish their journey to Mount Zion, to stand with the Lamb, the way ahead is dark and dreary and dreadful. Our worst persecution is NOT behind us. The doors of Carthage shall again enclose the innocent. We shall yet weep more tears for Zion than we have ever known before.”

- Elder Bruce R. McConkie, October 1980 general conference

"Time is on the side of truth—and truth is eternal. Those who are fighting against freedom may feel confident now, but they are shortsighted.

This is still God's world. The forces of evil, working through some mortals, have made a mess of a good part of it. But it is still God's world. In due time, when each of us has had a chance to prove ourselves-including whether or not we are going to stand up for freedom—God will interject himself, and the final and eternal victory shall be for free agency. And then shall those complacent people on the sidelines, and those who took the wrong but temporarily popular course, lament their decisions. To the patriots I say this: Take that long eternal look. Stand up for freedom, no matter what the cost. Stand up and be counted. It can help to save your soul-and maybe your country.”

- Ezra Taft Benson, An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 62

I'll end this with portions of a talk given in 1937 by J. Reuben Clark, Jr. -

No Man Sees End

No thinking person doubts that our people, our nation, and the world are now passing through one of the great crises of the world's history. We are in the midst of a world-wide revolution, which is wholly alien to our free institutions and is foreign in birth, concept, and directing head. No man, of his own power, sees the end. But the end the revolutionists seek is fairly clear; it is the overturning of the whole existing order, political, financial, economic, social, religious, the complete destruction of our Constitution and the government established under it, and then the setting up of some sort of despotism that shall destroy, in all these fields, the free agency which the Lord gave to man. The revolutionists plan that this is to be largely done during the war, under the plea of war necessity; it is to be continued after the war under the excuse-if we are not then too cowed to require an excuse-that this new political order is necessary that we may rehabilitate the world. They count that then, after alittle time, the revolution will be secure. There seems no doubt that this is their conscious, deliberate, planned end. We have gone a long way already down this road.

Our Duty to Sustain the Constitution

Knowing as we do that God set up this Constitution of ours and that He has declared it "should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles," (D&C 101:77) it is the duty of every member of the Church to protect and defend the Constitution against any and all attack. In this country our lawful political allegiance runs not to any man, not to any party, not to any "ism," but to the Constitution of the United States and to the free institutions set up under it. There can be no tampering with the "just and holy principles" of the Constitution. No true Latter-day Saint can or will do other than reverence the Constitution; each will do all in his power to save it from pollution or destruction.

A Choice Land

With infinite patience, infinite mercy, infinite love, the Lord has tried to lead His children of this earth along the paths He has made for us, that we today might not become ripened in iniquity and subject to chastisement as were His children in the olden times. We who live on this hemisphere have a special blessing and a prescribed decree. This is the blessing:

Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12.)

This is the decree:

Wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be swept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the fulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are swept off. (Ether 2:10.)

May the Lord help us so to live that we enjoy the blessings and escape the decree.

Too many of us of this land have not hearkened to the voice of the Lord, nor observed His laws and commandments. The offenses of the peoples of the earth have been great; the eternal law seems to be that there must be an equal atonement.

Jesus said to His disciples:

"Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh! (Matthew 18:7.)

The Lord's Plans Will Triumph

But in all the afflictions we now have or that loom up ahead, it is my faith that the Lord is at the helm, for this is a major event in the history of man. It is my faith that nothing has happened and nothing will happen that is contrary to His plan or that is against His will. In the final event, God does not permit any trifling with His decrees. However far afield men may wander, Righteousness and Truth finally triumph. Of these things I have the same knowledge that I have that I live.

Of all peoples, we are, with this knowledge, the most blessed in the earth. Because, however dark may seem the days, we shall face our trials with the sure knowledge that God lives; we know that He can hear and answer our prayers according to His wisdom; we understand that we have an existence hereafter where we and our loved ones shall be forever safe from the ills of the flesh; we know that we shall have eternal happiness if we live and die righteously; we know that the Lord will bless and protect wherever he may be, every man who lives the principles of the Gospel and who does his duty.

http://search.ldslibrary.com/article/view/195727
Bold and Underline mine

I look forward to the return of my Savior. He who will break the chains of the adversary and bring to a close his reign and dominion over the earth....to be locked up for a thousand years and only to be unleashed for a little season before the end commeth!

I dare say that no arm of the flesh will throw down the power of the adversary. His time is allotted. We make our respective choices. Do what's right and let the consequences follow. Battle for freedom in spirit and truth. But let us recognize where we can truly battle the most effectively and follow the lead of our chain of command who have been called by God to lead us in these latter days. Take heart in the destruction for it means the judgments of God are going forth to the convincing of many of His reality and to touch hearts that could not otherwise be touched. And those that gnash their teeth and turn away will get their due reward.

The righteous need not fear....not that a few wheat won't get pulled up with the tares but in the context of Come Come Ye Saints -

And should we die before our journey's through,
Happy day! All is well!
We then are free from toil and sorrow, too;
With the just we shall dwell!
But if our lives are spared again to see the Saints their rest obtain,
Oh, how we'll make this chorus swell-
All is well! All is well!

This is true optimism....in the face of whatever comes our way....through hope & faith in Heavenly Father and His son Jesus Christ!

But the wicked on the other hand.....well their hearts will fail them! I pray that my heart does not fail me!!!





Look to the Savior as He is the (only) way, the truth, and the light. He is our salvation. He is our conqueror! He tread the wine press alone! He is victorious over the adversary! The Father's will be done despite whatever our personal desires are.

[Squally]

Great quotes Mummy, thanks for posting them all together. Puts things into perspective as to where we are and where we are going!

[Wooly Hat]

Yep. What's up?

I know this is a long shot but...

Remember posting on this thread: http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - about the works of Sam Fryman?

Well, I was wondering did you download those books? And do you happen to have them?

[pjbrownie]

yes there was a thread on it, thanks for posting that holyhabanero.

I am not sure the written word could convey the soberness and seriousness of President Packer's demeanor. But the gist of the message was that he told stories of two different pioneers and some of the amazing hardships that they went thru, and then said that they had it easy compared to what we were going to be called upon to endure. And it is important that this was not at General Conference, was not directed to the church as a whole, but it was directed to a good portion of the Utah LDS.

Yes, yes, and of course to hear my neighbors say it, we are enduring hardships greater than the pioneers. With all of this prosperity and pornography, we're really going through it

[freedomforall]

delete

You've written a lot of interesting stuff, but you will have to explain this one.

[Squally]

delete

You've written a lot of interesting stuff, but you will have to explain this one.

I just deleted my post, thats all it meant.

[freedomforall]

delete

You've written a lot of interesting stuff, but you will have to explain this one.

I just deleted my post, thats all it meant.

Got it!

[Squally]

I was just curious if anyone else around here has a feeling of foreboding for this year like I do?

yes---still feeling a lil bit of foreboding.

[Rincon]

Removed

[InfoWarrior82]

I feel it too. I'm kind of anxious because I don't know how prepared I'll be with having to give up my goodies like my iPhone, ldsfreedomforum.com, running water etc. Kinda reminds me of the days I spent preparing to go on my mission!

[Songbird]

I just got back from Nauvoo last night. I spent some time at the Visitor's center waiting for the Temple to open at 2:00. I saw the movie: Joseph Smith, Prophet of the Restoration...Okay it really pulls at the heartstrings. Anyway, about 3/4 of the way through, there was this horrible scene of bloodshed and slaughter and of course it broke my heart and I was crying. Just then, I thought about the trials that might come upon us/me and I cried to Father in Heaven, "What will I do???" How can I remain faithful through all that is coming down the pike? Of course I know the answer, but for a few seconds the thought gripped my soul that the tests will be severe and I must continue to work on my faith now...oil...drop by drop...

Emma asks Joseph in the movie "Do you ever just question why God lets all these things happen?" He replies, "I don't allow myself to."

I can learn something from that.

[Songbird]

I was just curious if anyone else around here has a feeling of foreboding for this year like I do?

Well, looks like we all sensed it. Now I am overwhelmed with sorrow for them...An earthquake, aftershocks, a tsunami, multiple nuclear meltdowns, a volcano eruption...my heart is so sad for them and for us...."God Bless us, every one" :-s

[durangout]

I was just curious if anyone else around here has a feeling of foreboding for this year like I do?

Well, looks like we all sensed it. Now I am overwhelmed with sorrow for them...An earthquake, aftershocks, a tsunami, multiple nuclear meltdowns, a volcano eruption...my heart is so sad for them and for us...."God Bless us, every one" :-s

+1