LDS Freedom Forum

I am not sure how many of you appreciate the chats I have been having with Bruce Wydner (Cleon Skousen’s Ghost Writer for “The Majesty of God’s Law and others of his works,”) as many of you have mentioned having difficulty with his perspective, but I felt the need to post this final submission that Bruce wrote last night that concludes the subject of these chats that I have been having with him. These chats started as the transcription of our interview, a couple of posts on this Antichrist thread http://www.latterdayconservative.com/fo ... php?t=1452
And continued with this next post about the JBS
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/fo ... 4641#14641
Then being motivated Bruce really pulled out the stops, he stayed up most of the night last night and wrote the following for our group:

How “The Elders of this Church” have Stepped Forth and
Saved the US Constitution


A most frequently heard quote of the Prophet Joseph Smith was made on July 19, 1840. It is that: “The time will come when the Constitution will hang as if by a thread; and at that time the Elders of this Church will step forth and save it from destruction.”

A preparation for their doing this is the very many prophecies that were made in the Ancient Scriptures, that have been restored, which speak at length of this happening. Reading these during their growing years, along with so frequently hearing Joseph Smith’s quote, above, it is expected that the youth who grow to become “the Elders of this Church” are preparing themselves to “Step Forth and Save the Constitution.”

In General Conference, in April, 1965, Ezra Taft Benson said that: “The Prophet Joseph Smith declared it will be the elders of Israel who will step forward to help save the Constitution, not the Church.” That is, the Church and the Restored Scriptures will “teach” “the elders of Israel” how it will be them who will save the US Constitution, but that, after they have been prepared as they have been to do this, they should not wait to be “compelled in all things” to do that.

Beside the Prophecies in the Ancient Restored Scriptures that it will be “the Elders of this Church” who will save the US Constitution (and many other good things around the World) from destruction, “what are some of the specifics that the Church has provided, in these times, which indicate how this will be done?”

It is rather widely held that throughout the fifty years from when he was recruited to be the Chief Legal Counsel for the United States State Department, its Solicitor, in 1911, until his death, in 1961, President J. Reuben Clark, Jr. was regarded as, “The World’s Foremost Expert on the US Constitution.”

With the devastation to so much of US Society that came with the commencement of “the Great Depression of 1929,” it is understandable that the Church would want the assistance of Utah-born President Clark to give his advice and insights as to what to do in these terrible circumstances. President Clark had served as “the Acting Secretary of State of the USA,” had authored the very decisive “Clark Memorandum to the Monroe Doctrine,” and was serving as the US Ambassador to Mexico when he was called into the First Presidency. He was sustained as the Second Counselor to President Grant on April 6, 1933, after there had been no one so serving in that Office since December 11, 1931. The delay may have had something to do with President Clark ending his obligations with his US Government responsibilities and beginning the responsibilities of his Church Callings. An insight into the need for his abilities in the First Presidency might be that he had not served as a Stake President nor as a Bishop, which so many have before being called into the First Presidency. As a matter of fact, with his Government responsibilities taking him where they did, it was thought that he was not able to attend Church regularly for most of the 20+ years that he was filling those Government responsibilities.

He was sustained as the First Counselor in the First Presidency on October 6, 1934; and in that position he gave the Talk in the October 1937 General Conference that has so much to do with the way that the Church has tried to protect the Members of the Church from the Destruction of the US Constitution etc. that are the goals of the Secret Combination, that the Scriptures and the Prophets have been informing the LDS People is trying to do that with their Conspiracy, by which Conspiracy they have been ruling so much of mankind for so long. The following are some quotes from that Talk.

… I feel under a solemn duty to tell you.

Recently I have had opportunity to discuss world conditions with men from both sides of the Atlantic who are leaders in industry and finance.

I deem it my duty to tell members of the Church, by way of warning and admonition, of what the near future may bring insofar as these men can foresee. … I am now giving the soundest human forecast of which I know.

European nations are piling up enormous quantities of raw materials used in war.
These same authorities declare that if war shall come, its ending will leave the world in a state of exhaustion heretofore unknown to modern times; that the depression from which we are now emerging will be but as a shadow of the real hard times that will then come. They feel that this next world depression will be near, if not quite, a CHAOS which will, in the existing state of mind of the peoples of the world, THREATEN THE VERY EXISTENCE OF GOVERNMENT, OF PROPERTY, OF HUMAN RIGHTS, OF LIBERTY, EVEN OF THE FAMILY ITSELF.

… there is strongest reason for believing that some of THE MOST SKILLED, ASTUTE, AND SHREWD DIPLOMATS, POLITICIANS, AND STATESMEN OF ALL EUROPE are now planning to have the people of the United States finance the next European war either before the war begins or during its progress.

Furthermore, certain of these same diplomats, politicians, and statesmen are planning to entice the United States into an offensive and defensive military alliance in order that we shall participate in that next world war by sending our young men to the battlefields of Europe. The argument that they now plan to use to bring this plan about is that in this way only can the peace of the world be preserved. While this is a most profound fallacy, it will unfortunately find a sympathetic ear among many of the people of this country who do not fully understand international relations. It will require the wisest statesmanship on our part to prevent the United States from becoming again the victim of a world military catastrophe.
…

“What may we as a people and as individuals do for ourselves to prepare to meet this oncoming disaster?”

Let every head of every household see to it that he has on hand enough food and clothing, and, where possible, fuel also, for at least a year ahead.

“Who are those ‘most skilled, astute, and shrewd diplomats, politicians, and statesmen of all Europe’ of the Secret Combination that has been controlling Governments in Europe for so many centuries but now was planning to make the United States ‘again the victim of a world military catastrophe,’ that they were planning to make into ‘a chaos which will, in the existing state of mind of the peoples of the world, threaten the very existence of government, of property, of human rights, of liberty, even of the family itself’?” They have sought to be a “secret” Combination, doing what they have been doing, for over 2,600 years now. However, because of the developments that “the Elders of this Church” have stepped forth to produce, that Ancient “Secret” Combination does not even exist anymore. They don’t know that yet, but soon virtually all of the World will be showing them that. When shown this their Ancient “Secret Combination” will cease to exist. It will “perish,” in the words of Isaiah.

“How will it perish?” “Why will it perish?” There is information in relation to this in the Booklet, that is available from us by e-mail, that is entitled, “Kybernion.” In that Booklet reference is made to the way that it is explained in the Book of Daniel that the Babylonian or Mediterranean Statecraft “Governments,” that are continuations of “the Works of Darkness” that produced their origin, in Babylon, will “break in pieces” when, “in the latter days,” “shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom” that “shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms.”

The Government that replaced the Neo-Babylonian Empire was that of Persia. The Persian Empire was replaced by that of Ancient Greece.

It is the “Secret Combination” that came from the beginning of the Ancient Greek Statecraft that conquered the Persian Empire that has CEASED TO EXIST in our day.
There is more detail on this in the Booklet, Kybernion, and extensive information on this subject in what is called, “The 1,000-page Course.”

A person in Ancient Greece talked all of the people in Ancient Greece to believe that it would never be possible for one man to be able to teach another “how to be GOOD,” could teach that other person how to do “the One Act” that makes that other person into a “GOOD Person.” One reason given for that was that such a would-be teacher would have to, eventually, teach that other person that “one Act” that makes that other person into a “GOOD Person” with “One Word”; and “Nobody will ever be able to do that,” was the consensus of the population of Ancient Greece.

“What was ‘the next best thing’?” was the question of that population.
The answer to that was that if a Political Leader gets “Correct Hunches,” (“ortho-doxies”) in Ancient Greek, THAT WORK ALWAYS, “That is just as GOOD as being able to teach someone one word for one act that makes one “GOOD.”

That person that got all of Ancient Greece to go along with his suggestion that a Political Leader whose “Correct Hunches” “work always” is the way that GOODNESS comes to mankind, built on the reception of that suggestion to further state that by being the avenue by which those Correct Hunches come to mankind, that Political Leader become the “godly” conduit between People and God. This “conduit” was what the people of Ancient Greece were talked into building their lives upon because “the STATE” of all of their minds ― “the STATE” of Mind of all of Mankind ― is that: “No human being is ever going to be able to know what ‘GOOD’ is,” the best that we can have is this “godly” conduit of ours, to God and to the Correct Hunches that conduit gets.

When the Secret Combination, that got that suggestion accepted by the people of Ancient Greece, got it accepted, their next step was to appoint a Political Leader who would be that Conduit between the people of Ancient Greece and God. Then that Secret Combination said that they would make themselves into a “sit-down-together group” that would assist that Political Leader to get his Correct Hunches implemented. In Ancient Greek to “sit-down” was “-hedri-,” “together” was “syn-,“ and “-on” stood for their “group.” So, their word, “Syn-hedri-on,” became the name for their Group that worked with the Correct Hunches that their Political Leader got, to make them into the Dictates by which that Dictator dictated how the people of Ancient Greece were going to conquer the Middle East that had belonged to the Ancient Persian Empire.

When that Secret Combination, that Synhedrion, took Judea away from the Persian Empire a group of apostates from the Religion of Israel decided that they would take over the task of ruling Judea for that Greek Secret Combination by their adopting the “religion” of that Greek Synhedrion and their being, “the Synhedrion of Judea.” In the Talmud of that Synhedrion they call themselves by that Ancient Greek word till this day. However, in medieval France the closest that Medieval French speakers could get for a pronunciation of Synhedrion was, “Sanhedrin.”

At the time of that conquest those operating the Temple of Judea were somewhat apostates themselves, although they were able to operate it because of the fact that they were descendants of Aaron. They were thought to be the descendants of Aaron through the High Priest of David and Solomon, whose name was, Zadok. From that relationship they had taken the name for themselves of, the Sadducees. When that Sanhedrin of those apostates, from the Religion of Israel for that of the Synhedrion of Ancient Greece, informed the Sadducees that from then on they were going to start running things in Judea and in the Temple of Judea by the Correct Hunches/Orthodoxy of the Synhedrion-Secret Combination that was running the Greek Army that had just conquered Judea away from its former Persian Rulers, the Sadducees said to those of that Sanhedrin, “You trouble-makers!” In Hebrew that expression came out as the word, “Perushim,” the origin of the English word, “Pharisees.”

So, the Pharisees were thought of by the Sadducees as apostates from the Religion of Israel, over to the Statecraft Religion of the Secret Combination, the Synhedrion that processed the “Correct Hunches/Ortho doxies” that the Dictator over the Greek Army was said to get from God.

That Synhedrion/Secret Combination pushed their idea that, “without” those Ortho doxies/Correct Hunches that that Dictator gets as the “conduit” from God to people, “HUMAN BEINGS CANNOT ACQUIRE KNOWLEDGE!” During the Middle Ages the Collection of all of the Ortho doxies/Correct Hunches of all of the Dictators of the Byzantine-Roman Empire (from Diocletian and then Constantine down through the Centuries, to the time of the Crusades) became the Collection of the Dictates of those Dictators the study of which collection at the places where it was available, made those places into the first of the Medieval European concept of, “Universities.”

Those Ancient Synhedrions based their concept of Learning upon the Premise that: “The Reason that Nature gives Language to Human Beings, in the first place, is so ‘that Dictators, such as theirs were, can Dictate their Dictates’!”

The Babylonian Culture ― of the Babylonians, the Persians, Greeks, Romans, and Europeans ― in relation to Human Languages is to approach trying to understand them by the Sense of Sound. The approach to that was through the use of the Babylonians’ servants,’ the Phoenicians,’ invention of their “Alphabet.”

For the Ancient Greeks to conquer the Armies of the Countries of Middle East was one thing. For there to be a profitable exploitation of those Countries and of their Economies, the Greeks had to learn the Languages of those Countries. To do that the Greeks began what they called their, “Written Art.” In Ancient Greek that was, “Grammatike Techne.” That became the basis of Medieval European “Education,” as the “First Liberal Art,” the Written Art of, “Grammar.”

The Ancient Greeks and their Secret Combinations, that ruled them realized that all Education in the “Government” Organizations of all Europeans, which they would control, would need to base all of their Education upon the First Liberal Art of Grammar but that, even though the BASIC PATTERN of the Grammars of all of the Languages in the World is the same, because their Secret Combinations could not understand WHY they were all like that THEY MADE IT THE BASIS OF ALL OF THEIR STATECRAFT THAT NOBODY WILL EVER BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN “LOGICALLY” WHY IT IS THAT ALL OF THOSE GRAMMARS OPERATE AS THEY DO. This Basis of the Statecraft of the Secret Combinations of those Ancient Synhedrions has remained the Basis of ALL “OCCIDENTAL” EDUCATION TILL THIS TIME.

The Sanhedrin of the Pharisees of Judea have the horrible reputation among Christians that is given to them by the Gospel as it is presented in the New Testament.

However, at the conclusion of New Testament times, the Ancient Scandinavian Sagas tell the Story of how it was that the Religion of all of the Germanic Conquerors of the Romans’ Empire was called, by Roman writers about them, as being, “Arian Christians.” Those Sagas tell how those who brought what the Romans called, “Arian Christianity” to Northern Europe came from Judea. So, in about 70 AD the Roman Empire destroyed so much of Judea and exiled all Judeans from their Empire. The Pharisees fled over to Babylon City to “regroup” there. They became such a successful Secret Combination there that the Roman Emperor, Diocletian, asked them if they would help the Roman Empire to defeat the Germanic Arian Christians who were defeating the Romans’ Empire.

By the time that that happened the Pharisees, following their Apostate Greek Orthodoxy Religion, had organized their Secret Combination so that they operated on that Basis of Greek Statecraft that: “THE REASON THAT NATURE GIVES HUMAN LANGUAGE TO HUMANS IS SO THAT THE PHARISEES’ ORTHODOX DICTATOR CAN DICTATE HIS ORTHODOX DICTATES, which Basis they are all always so organized around, that the “Existence” of their Organization is that these Dictates of the Dictators of their Dictators’ Lineage will, as they take Control over the Whole Human Race, become the Dictates that all of Mankind will operate on, since THE REASON THAT NATURE GIVES LANGUAGES TO MANKIND IS SO THAT THEIR DICTATORS CAN DICTATE THEIR ORTHODOXY DICTATES TO BE THE BASIS THAT ALL OF MANKIND WILL EVENTUALLY OPERATE ON.

When the Roman Emperor, Diocletian, asked the Dictator of the Pharisees Secret Combination/Sanhedrin, living in Babylon City to give the Romans the information by which they could destroy the Arian Christianity of the Germanic Peoples who were beating the Romans’ Military, that Dictator of the Pharisees made his Sanhedrin into the head Secret Combination of the Byzantine Roman Empire ― which he and Diocletian formed at that time ― as well as making his Secret Combination the main Secret Combination that has been causing nearly all of the Wars of Mankind and trying so earnestly to take over the control of the Entire World, down till this time now.

This Dictator achieved that by instructing Diocletian as to how his Byzantine Empire would be able to militarily defeat the Germanic Arian Christians in such a way that his Byzantine Empire would be able to survive for another, nearly 1,000 years.

The Trick which he instituted was to make the main change in the History of the Roman Empire. That change was that, until that time, the History of the Roman Empire had been called, “the History of the Principate,” the History of the “Princes,” from the first Caesars down to Diocletian. Then, the Dictator of the Pharisees told Diocletian that, to institute the Plan that would defeat the Arian Christians, Diocletian needed to focus on that essence of Ancient Greek Statecraft, that the Dictator whose Correct Hunches Work Always is “Godly.” Diocletian was told that, from then on, he and his successors needed to put on all of their Coins (under their face on their Roman Empire Coins) that each one of them, in their succession, was “the Lord and God” of all of the Romans in their Roman Empire. In the Romans’ Latin Language the expression, “Lord and God,” is, “Dominus et Deus.” Therefore, the History of the Byzantine Roman Empire, from Diocletian down to the end of that Empire, when they were finally defeated, about 1,000 years later, by the actions taken against them in the Crusades, is the part of the History of the Roman Empire that is called, “the Dominate.” Diocletian told a number of the petty volunteers, who volunteered to do so, that if each of them would fight the others, the one of them who survived, after killing all of the others, could be his Successor. The petty volunteer who survived, after killing all of the others had the name, Constantine. He tricked all of the Germanic Arian Christians by telling them that he, now the Lord and God of all Romans, had just decreed that all Romans belong to the same Christian Religion that all of those Nations of Germanic Arian Christians belonged to. When Germanic Arian Christianity became so confused by that Trick of Diocletian, as the Pharisees’ Dictator told him they would be, the Roman Emperor and the Pharisees Dictator brought in Hordes of Cavalries of Huns, out of Mongolia, to conquer and kill off the Germanic Arian Christians all of the way west to the English Channel Coast. The Huns who drove the Saxons out of their previous Homeland, on the South Shore of the Baltic Sea, held on to that area until those Huns, and their Suppliers, the Byzantine Empire, were finally defeated and driven away together by the time of the conclusion of the Crusades.

So, the Dictator of the Secret Combination of the Pharisees Sanhedrin, has made that Sanhedrin of his the Main Secret Combination of the World, causing virtually all Wars and so many horrors in that Secret Combination’s goal to, in their way, take over the Governing of all of the People of the Human Race by the Procedures of the Dictates of that Dictator and of his present-day Sanhedrin.

Nearly all persons, who know anything at all about them, tremble in considering the fact that they are by far, “The Most Powerful Organization in the History of the World,” which is able to conquer any Country that it wants to, at any time that it wants to, and that it wants, right at this time, to conquer the United States of America and throw its Constitution into the trash that it has made out of it by all of its Programs that it has introduced into the lives of the People of the USA.

However, in contrast to this, all who hear of the way that the Internet was developed, in the USA, stop, and say to all others, “Because of this Invention of the Internet, here in the USA, that Biggest Secret Combination Organization in the World, that has been ruling the Modern World from the gains that it has made from all of the Wars that it has started throughout so much of Recent Modern History, this Biggest Secret Combination Organization in the World DOESN’T EXIST ANYMORE!”

“How did it happen?”

The people in the USA speak “the World Language,” North American English.
Of “The Elders of This Church” who serve as the Foreign Language Missionaries, out of the, some, 53,000 of them who are currently serving as full-time Missionaries, they are involved with about 169 Human Languages. By doing that they have invented what the United States Defense Department has named, the “Human Language Technology,” of all of the Languages in the World.

Decades ago the United States Defense Department wanted to invent Human Language Technology in order to be able to have the large Computer of the Missile Directorate of the US Air Force, at Hill Field in Utah, transmit Intelligent Systems Technology Messages to the Computer Chips that had been installed, in “every single Missile in our Missile Force.” When the Reagan Administration demonstrated for the Leadership of the Soviet Union that the Missile Directorate’s Computer, at Hill Field, through the Network of all of the Fiber-optic Cables, buried under the Freeways across the USA, can so accurately direct all of the Missiles of the US Missile Force, through the Computer Chips that are installed on each of them, that the Missile Directorate can destroy, out over the Oceans, almost every Intercontinental Ballistic Missile that an Enemy of the USA might try to send here, the Soviet Union admitted that they had lost the Cold War to the USA, as the Soviet Union then went out of existence.

When that happened Bill Gates said that the US Public wanted so much to buy Computer Software, operating on these Language Inventions from Utah, by its Multilingual Returned Missionaries, of Human Language Technology and Intelligent Systems Technology, that they renamed the Defense Department’s Advanced Research Projects Agency, ARPA’s, ARPANET, with the name that they had devised for it, which is, “the Internet.”

In the 1950’s and early 60’s the US Government tried to invent Human Language Technology but gave up among statements such as, “Teaching Computers to understand English or any other Natural Language … has always been unrealistic.” That “always” went all of the way back to the Ancient Greeks, who said that “Grammar,” the explanation of the mysterious way that all Languages work, will “always” have to remain nothing more than an “Art,” that it can never be explained as a Technology. When the US Government gave up, the Leadership of the LDS Church said that it was going to encourage its “Elders,” who were bi-lingual in so many of the World’s Languages and North American English to keep on trying to do that.

They kept trying until they invented what the US Defense Department named, “The Technology of all of the Human Languages in the World.”

“But, how did they do it?”

The LDS People have access to the Historical Records of the Ancient People who may have had what many have thought of as, “The Highest Civilization in the History of the World.” The basis of that Ancient Culture is how any person can teach any other the One Word for the One Act for which, if anyone will do it, it will make that person GOOD. Beside that being the Social Culture of that Highest Civilization in the History of the World, they also used that One Word for that One Act to explain how the Mind of every human being who is born into the World is working at the moment of their birth. It is the same for every human being. Because of that it is it is so simple to explain everything that happens in the Grammar of every Language in the World by that One Word for that One Act. Doing that those Bi-lingual Returned Missionaries “Elders of this Church” “stepped forth” and “taught Computers how to understand English” and “any other Natural Language.”

The “State,” of Ancient Greek Statecraft, is that “No human mind can ever ‘know’ what is GOOD.” That was presented as the State of the Mind of every person in the World and that that would continue to be the State of Mind of every person throughout all History. The thought of that State of Mind being the State of Mind of every Mind that is born into the World, does not exist any more. The Human Language Technology, from Utah, that is the basis of all of the Word Processing Software in the World today, and the Intelligent Systems Technology, from Utah, that is the basis of all of the Networking Software in the World today, which, together, created that Invention, in Utah, of the Internet, all show all of the Human Race THE REAL “STATE” OF THE MIND OF EVERYBODY THAT IS BORN INTO THE WORLD, which makes it so that that Ancient Greek “guess,” at what the State of Mind of everyone who is born into the World is, as nothing but a bad guess that is completely worthless to all anymore.

“But, then, what about that extension of that guess: That the reason that Nature gives Human Language to all Humans is so that the Dictator of the Pharisees ― who apostatized from the Religion of Israel, to start using the Religion of their Political Conquerors, the Ortho-doxy/Correct Hunch Religion of those Political Conquerors ― can Dictate his Dictates?” Their entire Apostate Organization has existed now, for over the last 2,600 years, upon that one part of what the Internet proves is just a wrong guess.
“What is this Most Powerful Organization in the World going to do, when it finds out that the Internet has made it so that their Organization does not exist anymore?”

The direct answer to that question is that, “For every member of that Secret Combination Organization who goes through that information ― of how the Internet works, that probably automatically does almost all of that ‘member’s’ work for him or her ― that Organization has ‘ceased to exist’ for that member.”

But enormously Powerful Secret Combinations, such as this, retaliate so viciously when something like this gives them information which destroys them. “What will happen when they want to retaliate so viciously against that which is providing to them this information that is making it so that they do not exist anymore?” In ancient times it might have been pitiable, the way that such retaliation might have lashed out against the poor persons that were the source of that information. However, today, the source of that information is the way that all of the Software in the World operates on the “inert” pieces of silicon in all of the Computers in the World that are the Hardware for that Software. Retaliation against inert pieces of Silicon is not going to detain at all that large Secret Combination’s going out of existence in the minds of all of its former members.

Work Together By The Law, and God Bless,
Darren

Nonsense.

Nothing was presented that has anything to do with "the Elders of Israel" or "Saving the Constitution", unless we are to believe that somehow all secret combinations have now mysteriously disappeared because the internet came into existence through LDS missionaries. Should we bow now and pay homage to Bill Gates as our savior? Heck, I thought is was Al Gore that invented the internet. lol Makes just as much sense, and Gores pathetic comments were just as well documented.

Why is it that these always start with trying to gain some credibility from dropping names like Joseph Smith, Jr., Cleon Skousen, Ezra Taft Benson, and J. Ruben Clark? Some good information is presented, and then jibberish tied to it from someone that believes that language is the beginning and end all of all existence.

Again this man makes assumptions and ties his person observations of vague linguistic connections and tries to make himself look profound. I have spent hours wading through this mans other writings, trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, trying to glean some basic truths if not some profound truths, and I find them of little or no use. They are the ramblings of a near genius, but his undocumented ties, links, and assumptions turn it into pure nonsense.

With the spirit, I believe that there is much to learn here, and that there are some things clarified. It is true if we do not understand history we are destined to repeat it.

Be that as it may... I think the elders have saved it in that they have embraced it. The proof of that however is still lacking and will be until we reinforce the principles through their practice. I say we have saved the principles, but we have not yet reinstated their practice.

Uff-da. I though I was the only one who could not make sense of Wynders writings.

No way have the elders saved the Constitution. We blew that years ago, and except for a few of us, most are not even aware that it is trouble. When pushed, some actually believe Mitt Romney will be its saviour, should it really need saving. He didn't even know Cpongress is supposed to declare war, and said he would get a bunch of lawyers into such a decision.

That was a scary thought!! When he said that I about died...

He finally removed me from his top 24 this morning LOL

And someone hacked his page!

People are waking up, just keep helping to do it, the members will wake up too, it is better that people are awake, where ever we can find them...

Lundbaek wrote,
No way have the elders saved the Constitution. We blew that years ago, and except for a few of us, most are not even aware that it is trouble.

The constitution has been saved, I have seen the work get done. And I testify that the constitution has been saved. But I do agree with you that far too many Elders (and many Church members) blew it years ago, and are continuing to do so. The constitution goes into the millennium with many chosen Elders, “many are called but few are chosen,” the rest get the cleansing. But it may not be too late for a us to save a few more, or stand for freedom. As for the United States of America, that corporation’s days are numbered. The constitution will endure but that specific organization is toast.

And thank you LoveChrist for your insights

With the spirit, I believe that there is much to learn here, and that there are some things clarified. It is true if we do not understand history we are destined to repeat it.

WhisperFox, you raise some interesting personal observations about Bruce Wydner’s works,

Nonsense.

Nothing was presented that has anything to do with "the Elders of Israel" or "Saving the Constitution", unless we are to believe that somehow all secret combinations have now mysteriously disappeared because the internet came into existence through LDS missionaries. Should we bow now and pay homage to Bill Gates as our savior? Heck, I thought is was Al Gore that invented the internet. lol Makes just as much sense, and Gores pathetic comments were just as well documented.

Why is it that these always start with trying to gain some credibility from dropping names like Joseph Smith, Jr., Cleon Skousen, Ezra Taft Benson, and J. Ruben Clark? Some good information is presented, and then jibberish tied to it from someone that believes that language is the beginning and end all of all existence.

Again this man makes assumptions and ties his person observations of vague linguistic connections and tries to make himself look profound. I have spent hours wading through this mans other writings, trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, trying to glean some basic truths if not some profound truths, and I find them of little or no use. They are the ramblings of a near genius, but his undocumented ties, links, and assumptions turn it into pure nonsense.

some of the same types of observations I have read made from some very smart people about the Book of Mormon. (I do not support these quotes [second quote box down,] they are negative and distracting and distract people from the true message of the Gospel. Unfortunately these smart people are so clever and witty to try to be so learned. I include these to make a point, that what we understand from the Holy Ghost to be true, sometimes fails the test of the "Experts" and "Historians", in their long train of abusive babble.) What is the acid test of truth, it is what is everlastingly believable. Logic is the correct hunch (theory) of the day.

In Scandinavia the Members of Our Church do not talk about our having “Articles of Faith.” The word, “Faith,” is a Roman word. In Scandinavia we have our Articles of “Tro.” There, the way that we say that, “We believe in God” is, “Vi tro pa Gud.” There, in Scandinavia, our words for the noun, “faith,” and for the verb, “believe,” are both “tro.”

The reality that “something that is believable everlastingly is the ‘truth’” explains the uses for which the word, “tro” – which is the origin of both the English words “true” and “truth” – has always been employed in Scandinavia.

Of such limitless importance to the employment of the English word, “Truth,” as it has been used throughout the Centuries in the Oath that one must take to testify before a Twelve-man Jury – of that importance since all of our Rights rest upon the “Custom, declared by Juries of Free Men, as they gave their Verdicts case by case in open court,” (Sir. Winston Churchill) which have been dependent on the Truthfulness of those Oaths – has been the word that proceeds the word “truth” the second time that it is used in this Oath. "Holy Truth."

Truth is not Logic. I would rather have truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon

… assumption(s) not supported.

… one common assumption—is probably incorrect.

… the Book of Mormon is a "primary source" reflecting events in Smith's own life.

The work is "inspired fiction".

The work is a demonically, or non-divinely inspired narrative.

The book was written by Joseph Smith through a process known as “automatic writing.”

http://www.mormonthink.com/bomweb3.htm#whatmost

The Book of Mormon is not supported by any linguistic evidence.

Men like Thomas Stuart Ferguson and B. H. Roberts labored for many years to prove the Book of Mormon true and then found out that their faith was based on erroneous assumptions.

http://mormoninquiry.typepad.com/mormon ... d-par.html

How can a reasonable historian even pretend the events of the Book of Mormon are true? That is a fact of life for all Mormons all the time. They live with the realization that much of the world they believe to exist is nonsense for everyone else.

http://www.signaturebooks.com/excerpts/apocrypha.htm

Had the Book of Mormon been what Joseph Smith said--not an allegory with spiritual import but a literal history of Hebrew immigrants to America--this should have been verified by now. Instead, the varied inhabitants and exotic locales in the Book of Mormon remain elusive; what some would term "Book of Mormon archaeology" is nonexistent. The more we learn, the more inconceivable the Book of Mormon version of ancient America becomes.

The Book of Mormon is supported by pseudoscientific studies and specialized interpretations that cannot bear rigorous scrutiny. Still, the new apologists embrace their theory like an article of faith despite the violence it does to Mesoamerican archaeology.

Regardless, the theory should be seen for what it is: an apologetic device. Specifically, it is an ad hoc hypothesis designed to shield a central hypothesis from adverse evidence— in this case, the Book of Mormon's historicity.

Is the Book of Mormon pseudonymous? We think so. Apocryphal? Yes. Is it therefore less able to touch people's hearts? No. Our position is that the scriptural tradition includes fiction— parables, poetry, hyperbole, psalms, historical verisimilitude, and other genres— and that such writing can be as powerful in providing people with spiritual guidance as non-fiction. To acknowledge the obvious fictional quality of the Book of Mormon is not to detract from the beauty and brilliance of the sermons, visions, and other imagery.

Again, the nature of faith is not what is at question here, but rather the structure of reason and theory. Some people would like to erect a closed system that admits only "positive" evidence. If apologists had their way, there would be no means to refute their theory and hence no method by which to fairly evaluate the Book of Mormon's historical claims.

For those who consider the Book of Mormon to be unique because of the supernatural manner in which it was dictated, Scott C. Dunn's essay stands as a caution. He provides examples of what is known as "automatic writing," the alleged supernatural means by which some of the canons of modern literature, as well as other religious texts, were produced. One might ask upon what grounds we accept the Book of Mormon and reject similar productions?

David P. Wright examines the Isaiah passages in the Book of Mormon to show their modern rather than ancient source, which is the King James version of the Bible. Responding to those who would like to explain away die errors in these passages, Wright demonstrates that the variants in the Book of Mormon are in fact responses to the 1611 English text and are often disruptive to the underlying Hebrew.

Susan Staker traces the development of the seer's role in the Book of Mormon and related revelations and notes its similarity to Joseph Smith's own evolving self-image.

Finally, Robert M. Price explores Joseph Smith's motives and methods in composing the Book of Mormon, comparing Joseph Smith to the pseudepigraphists. Price is particularly interested in Smith's method of using well-known Bible stories and texts to create new scripture. He concludes that Smith--like the pseudepigraphists-- was trying to give to new ideas the authority of the old prophets and to rewrite the past in order to give meaning to the present.

These idiots would rather have their logic.

I am not trying to compare the words in the Book of Mormon that teach us of prophets - priest crafts, freedom vs. slavery, the church and secret combinations on the American continent, with the words of Bruce’s works that teach us of prophets - priest crafts, freedom vs. slavery, the church and secret combinations on the European continent. One is obviously canonized the other is not, so I wouldn’t dare make that comparison. But if the information in Bruce’s works are true, we could learn a lot about the Church of our North European Ancestors, inspired or not. Bruce’s works are either truths or lies, actual history or stupid assumptions. This is something for you to decide for yourself. As for me, I know where I stand.

Work Together By The Law and God Bless,
Darren

However, today, the source of that information is the way that all of the Software in the World operates on the “inert” pieces of silicon in all of the Computers in the World that are the Hardware for that Software. Retaliation against inert pieces of Silicon is not going to detain at all that large Secret Combination’s going out of existence in the minds of all of its former members.

An EMP blast (Electro-Magnetic Pulse) from a high-altitude nuclear warhead will definitely retaliate against and overcome all those little silicon chips.

Uff-da. I though I was the only one who could not make sense of Wynders writings.

I have read some of his, and am working on the others I found. Parts I understand; others are horribly tedious to get through -- but that is partially due to not liking his style of writing.

I do have two beefs though:

ONE is to consider him to be Dr. Skousen's ghostwriter -- that implies that Dr Wydner actually wrote The Majesty of God's Law, which is plainly not the case if you compare writing styles. I also spoke to Paul Skousen, Cleon's son several times about this man, and he does not recall his father ever talking about Bruce, though Paul was interested in what writings I sent to him. I will check more with Cleon's son-in-law, Dr. Glen Kimber who could fill me in more.

TWO: Dr. Wydner frequently mentions a group called "southern slaveholders" at the time of the Constitution, who were instrumental in destroying the Puritan New Englanders' connection with Anglo-Saxon FREEHOLDERS and the mission to teach the Indians the Gospel and advanced way of life.

By implication, this means Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Henry, et al, are the guilty parties (though they were among those privileged to appear in the St. George temple to Wilford Woodruff and insist their temple work get done -- Washington being one of only 4 or 5 men ever posthumously ordained a high priest, instead of the standard proxy ordination to Elder).

He particularly blames Thomas Jefferson and his Virginia Charter of Religious Liberty for this, as it supposedly gave freedom of religion for all mankind and therefore destroying the One True Faith of our Fathers (to the eyes of the Europeans).

Again, Jefferson was one of those privileged to appear in the temple in 1877.

The historical parts are interesting, but I think he places too high of an emphasis on the Language technology as the thing to save the world (or else he is ineffective at explaining himself).

Do not forget the role each person has in using their own agency in accepting or rejecting truth and righteousness: no language program can ever overcome that.

I would follow the Spirit in studying, and apply the Lord's instructions regarding the Apocrypha to this: (paraphrasing) it is useful and interesting so far as it it accurate and truthful, but don't take it as doctrine (see D&C 91).

However, today, the source of that information is the way that all of the Software in the World operates on the “inert” pieces of silicon in all of the Computers in the World that are the Hardware for that Software. Retaliation against inert pieces of Silicon is not going to detain at all that large Secret Combination’s going out of existence in the minds of all of its former members.

Ever hear of EMP? (Electro-Magnetic Pulse). One high-altitude Nuclear warhead exploding can make short work of all those silicon chips.

Darren,

Quit hiding behind dropped names.

Instead of providing information, documentation, or defending what was presented, you go on as if I challenged Joseph Smith AND the Book of Mormon. I did not attack either of them. Pointing out the misrepresentations in the nonsense you posted has nothing to do with Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon except that neither of those sources confirm your assertions either.

I accept that you believe Bruce is a remarkable man. Quit trying to tie him to the shirt tails of great men. If his writings are true and correct you wouldn't have to preface each entry with his vague affiliation with Skousen or someone else. I would find most his assumptions and conclusions interesting if they came from a non-member but they don't square with scripture or latter-day revelation unless they are twisted beyond recognition of a normal man.

While his insights about language are sometimes interesting, language in and of itself doesn't prove the assumptions he makes. His assertions that 1000 to 2000 year old doctrine derived from the apostate descendants of the peoples of northern Europe is somehow more accurate than those men called of God to be our founding fathers and prophets today is ludicrous.

I fear there are those reading who will believe his and your misdirected ramblings and miss listening to prophets in our day.

If the modern internet had "saved the constitution", surely ETB, some lesser apostle or seventy, some stake president or bishop, or President Hinckley would have mentioned it. Nope, we hear it from "Bruce", through his disciple Darren.

Exactly where does your alter ego, Bruce, square the writings of Ezra Taft Benson and the other latter-day prophets, about the founding fathers and what they gave us with Bruces assertions that they mislead and misdirected us because they were deceived?

President Ezra Taft Benson’s October 1987 opening conference talk, “Our Divine Constitution,” wherein he states: “First and foremost, we must be righteous. . . . Second, we must learn the principles of the Constitution in the tradition of the Founding Fathers. . . . Third, we must become involved in civic affairs to see that we are properly represented. . . . Fourth, we must make our influence felt by our vote, our letters, our teaching, and our advice.

From "Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson" he stated, "Other good and valiant spirits were fore appointed to lay the foundation for man's liberty through their service in political matters. The Founding Fathers of this American nation were in this category. President Wilford Woodruff said, "They are the best spirits the God of Heaven could find on the face of the earth. They were choice spirits." They were held in reserve to collectively come in the time and at the place when one of history's greatest crises demanded their talents."

Ezra Taft Benson again;

"Under our system there has been released great creative capacity, because we have been free, unrestricted. What have we achieved? A standard of living unequalled anywhere in the world. Not because we are smarter, not because we are more brilliant, not because we have greater capacity than people of other nations, but because we have had a system which is superior-a system which was wisely provided by the Founding Fathers. We must protect and safeguard that system. Sometimes we find people who almost apologize for it-the free enterprise system. Of course it is not perfect; it is operated by human beings, but it is the best system in operation in this world today. If we are wise, we will preserve it, we will strengthen it and we will safeguard it for our children and our children's children."

I'm not buying for a moment that we are to negate all the writings of all the latter-day prophets because your friend Bruce knows more than they do collectively. That somehow they are all mislead and wrong, and that Bruce is all seeing and all knowing because he has studied language to the exclusion of all else is preposterous.

The law of witnesses requires the Lord to provide confirming testimonies from other witnesses. You provide none. You provide Bruce's renderings of history of hundreds and usually thousands of years ago, and would have us believe that our only source of truth in this matter is Bruce. If his conclusions are so correct, why is it that he is the only linguist or historian, prophet or apostle that has figured it out?

Where are the other witnesses both spiritual and scholarly? Don't claim Skousen as he never wrote nor witnessed that Bruce's assertions were correct. One can barely determine whether they actually knew each other, let alone whether they actually had the same ideas. If they did collaborate, Skousen managed to keep his scholastic distance for some reason.

Speculation and random linguistic connections does not prove the truth. God holds himself responsible to provide multiple witnesses.

Where are the other witnesses?

Daren,

BTW, what was the point of posting all the anti-Mormon propaganda?

Why would a disciple of Christ post a series of anti-Mormon information and sources? Is your intent to lead people astray? To lead people to these sources?

Why give these sources the additional exposure?

What was the possible connection between these "sources" and clarifying or supporting Bruce's assertions and conclusions?

And last but not least, why would someone claiming to have a scholars background site as a reference "wikipedia", the one site on the internet that anyone can post anything, and call it a fact?

I believe that finding positive ways to change the future is much more productive than being against something.

History is such an out of control propaganda machine. What parts should we believe, follow your heart.

I do so love all of our Founding Fathers, for all work they did to supply the correct principles that they helped distill into the Constitution insures them a place in heaven. May we be so bold. Were they perfect men, No! did they make mistakes, obviously. Our problems are from not learning from their mistakes.

I will choose the positive and productive parts.

Is all so lost as to believe that we no longer can rise to the task of restoring freedom. Are we not a called and chosen generation, to fulfill the prophecies of those great leaders of times past.

We all have so much already in common, just a little more love will make the difference, focus on Christ. I will start with me and mine, you do so too.

And yes it could be just as simple as Language Technology, it did seem so important to Plato in the "Metaphysics", when he said that we are just mere animals with a propensity to follow the one who puts words together the best. And "Gross Darkness" may be just a legacy of our Grammar Schools. Korihor and Gadianton were tiny operations in comparison to what these Greek men have done to us.

Work Together By The Law.

Saving the US Constitution


There seems to be Two Parts to the Elders of the LDS Church Stepping Forth to save the US Constitution.

The one that has been addressed so far is that of the LDS Church’s Foremost Expert on the US Constitution giving his insights on how to save the US Constitution from “the most shrewd diplomats etc.,” agents of the Worldwide Conspiracy-Secret Combination which was, at that time, planning World War II. President Clark had been a leading Official of the US State Department during World War I. He knew what that Secret Combination had done in World War I. He knew that when World War I began, for the USA, the person who was running the USA’s Central Bank was a brother of the person who was running Germany’s Central Bank. Since the family that they were both from was a notorious leading family in the Worldwide Conspiracy Organization, US Officials knew that the head of the USA’s Central Bank had to be replaced.

The two main obstacles to that Worldwide Conspiracy-Secret Combination taking over the control of the World were Germany in Europe and the USA in the Americas. The way that it was tried to destroy Germany was, during the course of World War I, for Germany’s Central Bank to “shift” all of the people of Germany over to use that Central Bank’s Fiat Money, which was entirely worthless except for what the Central Bank said that it was worth. Germany was very weakened by its defeat in World War I. So, then, in 1923 Germany’s Central Bank ruled that it would take 4.2 Trillion of their German Central Bank’s Marks to buy one US Dollar. That is, if the richest man in the USA, John D. Rockefeller, would have had his Multi-billion Dollar Fortune in Germany, in German Marks, he would have only been able to buy 15/100 of one US penny with it. Germany was in “Chaos.” And, except for what was still there of (what the Roman Empire had designated) its Ancient Germanic “Arian” Christianity Culture’s Townships ― where a neighbor could help his neighbors by all of their sharing their Survival Supplies ― that Chaos in Germany might have been of the dimensions that the Worldwide Conspiracy-Secret Combination, that owned and operated its Central Bank, might have been able to take over the permanent control, thereafter, of the People and Economy of Germany.

It seems that President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.’s 1937 “Warning” to the LDS People, with its permanent position thereafter, that “every head of every household see to it that he has on hand enough food and clothing, and, where possible, fuel also, for at least a year ahead,” was to prepare the LDS People for a similar “Chaos” in the USA after “becoming again the victim of a world military catastrophe.”

It is one thing for “the Elders of this Church” to “step forth and save” the US Constitution “from destruction,” in relation to a repeat of the Chaos, in the USA, after World War II, that would be like the Chaos that the Worldwide Conspiracy unleashed in Germany after World War I. All know that in the early 1970’s that World Conspiracy had the USA’s Central Bank shift all of the people of the USA over to use its Fiat Money.

So, for the Elders of this Church to have instituted what seems an interrupt to the Program of the Worldwide Conspiracy to repeat in the USA the Chaos that it unleashed in Germany is one thing. But, it is only that.

Anyone who has read the Restored Ancient Scriptures of the LDS Church knows that, in addition to saving the People of the USA from a Catastrophe brought onto them by the Secret Combination of the Worldwide Conspiracy, when the Elders of this Church step forth to save the USA from such a Chaos, they are also simultaneously going to make available to all of Heavenly Father’s children, all over the World, something that will bring all of them so much peace and prosperity that great Love will be engendered for Heavenly Father, all over the Earth, preparing the Human Family to receive the Lord’s Second Coming in the loving way that the Scriptures prophesy that this will happen. “What has been said here that addresses that in any way?”

The making available to the People of the World the Nephite Human Language Technology, of that Highest Civilization of the Ancient Nephites who lived here in the Americas, has brought a number of benefits to Mankind already. The original Human Language Technology Invention of the Elders of this Church, which was introduced, in Provo, Utah, in late 1978, to the World Market for it, allowed Computer Software to automatically and instantaneously do about 85% of the functions of a human mind in translating from the Spanish Language into English.

Then, in addition to allowing so much of the Labor of Human Minds to be performed automatically and instantaneously in “machine translation” between Languages, this Nephite Human Language Technology also allowed for about 85% of the functions of human minds to be automatically and instantaneously performed by the Word Processing and Networking Software that was developed to function within a great number of different Human Languages. After the US Government accomplished the immediate Goals which it had for these Developments, working in its ARPANET, and allowed the Public to commence using that Hardware and Software in the Services for which those Public Users began using the name, “the Internet,” such a large portion of what had previously been relatively slow and expensive Human Labor transitioned to become many times the Production, in comparison to that previous Human Labor, that was now produced so, relatively, quickly and inexpensively.

Those same “Elders of this Church” who “stepped forth” with their 1978 partially completed Invention of 85%-effective Nephite Human Language Technology, now have available, for a number of different applications, their Completed 100%-effective Products from Nephite Human Language Technology. When these begin being widely utilized around the World, replacing the 85%-effective Technology, of the Internet etc., that such a large part of the Human Family is operating on today, this Completed Nephite Human Language Technology will most quickly and inexpensively be able to automatically and instantaneously perform A LARGE MULTIPLE of what the 85%-effective Technology performs today. So, although such a large increase in the Productivity of Mankind has been achieved, already, today, by the Entire World’s acceptance of uses of the 85%-effective Nephite Human Language Technology, such as such worldwide use of the Internet etc., and although these huge increases in the Productivity of Mankind have brought with them accompanying large increases in the overall Prosperity of the Human Family, the Worldwide acceptances of all of the new generation of 100%-effective Nephite Human Language Technology Products and Services will result in so much more Productivity that there is potential for A LARGE MULTIPLE increase in The Worldwide Prosperity of Human Family.

Is that the Work of ALL of the Elders of this Church that are going to step forth?”

No.

In addition to the Elders of this Church who have been stepping forth as the Foremost Scientific Inventors and Industrialists of this Church, there is another much greater number of them who have stepped forward to make of them, by far, the Foremost Experts in the World on the GENEALOGY of the Human Family.

The Ancestors of the “Founders” of this Church and of so many of its Members are the Founders of New England. The “TOWNSHIP MEETING WAY OF ORGANIZING THEIR LIVES AND OF ALL OF THEIR COLLABORATIONS TOGETHER” is the preparation that prepared them to:

1. Invent how to write and operate on the World’s First Written Constitution;

2. Be THE SOLE AUTHORS of the Constitution of the USA; and

3. Have all of the Nations of the Earth but 6 copy them by shifting over to putting all of the operations of their Countries to be organized so as to be able to operate on Written Constitutions.

The Finances of the World, today, are controlled by the Bond Market of the Ancient Anglo-Saxon Commonwealth of London, from which the New Englanders came.

The Quadrillions of Dollars worth of the Ancient, Ancestral Anglo-Saxon “Stocks and Bonds” ― that the Ancient, Ancestral Free Enterprise System of the Anglo-Saxons and their related People operated on ― are the values which the Entire Human Race operates on today.

The LDS People are the most qualified people on this Planet to show, through their vast Genealogy Resources, the exact way that the Ancient Free Enterprise System of their Ancestors operated.

The Secret Combination that is the Worldwide Conspiracy, that currently controls all of the World’s Central Banks and issues, through them, all of the different types of Fiat Money, the values of which it can make end, at any time, only has access to One Value that is valuable enough that it can serve as the REAL Value behind such things as all of the different types of the Fiat Money of that Conspiracy.

The New England Forefathers of the first Latter-day Saints had virtually all of the USA divided up into New England type Townships. All of the people living in almost all of them are at liberty, at any time, to call themselves the “Freeholders,” within their particular Township, and to have Township Meetings (in “perpetual session,” if they wish, through their e-mailing to each other over the Internet), and vote that their Township and all of the rest of this Country be run according to their understanding of the “Just and Holy Principles” of the Township Meetings of New England which produced the US Constitution. Doing that they will have returned to those Original “Just and Holy Principles” which produced our US Constitution, in the first place.

Finally, today in the USA something like less than 10% of Financial Transactions takes place through the Secret Combination-Worldwide Conspiracy’s “Federal Reserve Notes.” More than 90% of all of those Financial Transactions, today, takes place electronically, over the Internet, working on the Nephite Human Language Technology that it operates on. In one sentence, if the people of the USA go back to their Ancestral “Just and Holy Principles” of VOTING TOGETHER IN TOWNMEETINGS, over the Internet, they can use that same Organization and Facilities to have the same access to the World Stock Market and Bond Market, of their Forefathers’ Ancient Free Enterprise System, on which the Secret Combination-Worldwide Conspiracy has been operating its Central Banks, with their, frequent, Fiat Money Issues, during recent Centuries. The Conspiracy’s Fiat Money is always going down in Value. The Value of the Stocks and Bonds of the Free Enterprise System is, generally, going up. Using them makes sense.

God Bless,
Darren

I added this to the post above to help clarify why I included these negative quotes. http://www.latterdayconservative.com/fo ... ght=#14722

some of the same types of observations I have read made from some very smart people about the Book of Mormon. (I do not support these quotes [second quote box down,] they are negative and distracting and distract people from the true message of the Gospel. Unfortunately these smart people are so clever and witty to try to be so learned. I include these to make a point, that what we understand from the Holy Ghost to be true, sometimes fails the test of the "Experts" and "Historians", in their long train of abusive babble.) What is the acid test of truth, it is what is everlastingly believable. Logic is the correct hunch (theory) of the day.

In Scandinavia the Members of Our Church do not talk about our having “Articles of Faith.” The word, “Faith,” is a Roman word. In Scandinavia we have our Articles of “Tro.” There, the way that we say that, “We believe in God” is, “Vi tro pa Gud.” There, in Scandinavia, our words for the noun, “faith,” and for the verb, “believe,” are both “tro.”

The reality that “something that is believable everlastingly is the ‘truth’” explains the uses for which the word, “tro” – which is the origin of both the English words “true” and “truth” – has always been employed in Scandinavia.

Of such limitless importance to the employment of the English word, “Truth,” as it has been used throughout the Centuries in the Oath that one must take to testify before a Twelve-man Jury – of that importance since all of our Rights rest upon the “Custom, declared by Juries of Free Men, as they gave their Verdicts case by case in open court,” (Sir. Winston Churchill) which have been dependent on the Truthfulness of those Oaths – has been the word that proceeds the word “truth” the second time that it is used in this Oath. "Holy Truth."

Truth is not Logic. I would rather have truth.

...

These idiots would rather have their logic.

WhisperFox wrote:

His assertions that 1000 to 2000 year old doctrine derived from the apostate descendants of the peoples of northern Europe is somehow more accurate than those men called of God to be our founding fathers and prophets today is ludicrous.

I fear there are those reading who will believe his and your misdirected ramblings and miss listening to prophets in our day.

It didn't seem to Jefferson that the Saxons were apostate.

From "The Majesty of God's Law":

On August 13, 1776, Jefferson wrote to Edmund Pendleton of the Virginia legislature to urge him to help abolish the remnants of feudalism, and return to the "ancient principles" which carry with them a promise from God. He wrote:

"Are we not better for what we have hitherto abolished of the feudal system? Had not every restitution of the ancient Saxon laws had happy effect? Is it not better now that we return at once into that happy system of our ancestors, the wisest and most perfect and most perfect ever devised by the wit of man, as it stood before the eighth century."

But, of course, Jefferson was far ahead of his time -- perhaps a couple of centuries or more. But eventually, he knew it had to happen.

and this part from Cleon's book is some of what made Bruce a Ghost Writer on that project.

Where Did the Anglo-Saxons Come From?

According to the Saga(s) from the Anglo-Saxon oral history in Iceland, this people had originally lived in large numbers around the Black Sea until the first century BC. (This is the general area where the lost Ten Tribes of Israel lived until they disappeared.)

I'm not "hiding behind dropped names", I'm just helping to connect the dots.

God Bless,
Darren

Quotes from WisperFox:
I'm not buying for a moment that we are to negate all the writings of all the latter-day prophets because your friend Bruce knows more than they do collectively. That somehow they are all mislead and wrong, and that Bruce is all seeing and all knowing because he has studied language to the exclusion of all else is preposterous.

Don't buy what I am giving away freely, I hope the thing you buy is Eternal Life, by selling your intelligence to God.

Who are our latter-day prophets? Are they super-human, do they know everything? Are they perfect like Adam’s son Seth? Last I checked they live lives much like you and I do. I went to school and the University in Utah as many of them have. And when I left these institutions I was heavily steeped in “Gross Darkness.” But trying to be unyielding to it. Unlike many of my acquaintances who just went off to climb the latter of success I continued looking with a childlike passion for what I felt I should do.

Through the process of looking for it, I received my call from his Holy Spirit (the thing that I feel he wants me to do for his sake,) and I am working to that call. Besides serving in the church and providing for my family, I am working on my call. I have found others of like mind and hearts, and we are also working together on our similar things. The only difference between latter-day prophets and us is their stewardship in the Church is different.

The law of witnesses requires the Lord to provide confirming testimonies from other witnesses. You provide none. You provide Bruce's renderings of history of hundreds and usually thousands of years ago, and would have us believe that our only source of truth in this matter is Bruce. If his conclusions are so correct, why is it that he is the only linguist or historian, prophet or apostle that has figured it out?

I have seen lights come on here and there.

Bruce feels that his work is a reason that the preacher scene in the Temple Endowment that talks about Orthodoxy and Teachers of Virtue, was removed in 1990. Hundreds of people were taking his classes in the old church just off State St. and Vine in the 1980's in the Salt Lake Area. Bruce was teaching that this same conversation as found as the basis of "the Meno" by Socrates is how governments of the world operate. Bruce by exposing this foundational teaching by Socrates of the basis of all governments is the Satan/Preacher part of the Temple Endowment and that wouldn’t have made for good PR for the church in trying to get itself established into so many countries around the world. Lets tell all the world that their governments are based on Satan’s plan for them, true, but not a great door opener.

Alma 30:16 ... But behold, it is the effect of a frenzied mind; and this derangement of your minds comes because of the traditions of your fathers, which lead you away into a belief of things which are not so.
:41 But, behold, I have all things as a testimony that these things are true; and ye also have all things as a testimony unto you that they are true; and will ye deny them? Believest thou that these things are true?
43 And now Korihor said unto Alma: If thou wilt show me a sign, that I may be convinced that there is a God, yea, show unto me that he hath power, and then will I be convinced of the truth of thy words.

Satan likes one on one confrontation because if he can get a witness isolated from the whole of spiritual truth he can rail upon that witness and beat him with his own shoe. Napoleon Hill said that safety is in working together in Master Mind Groups.

Where are the other witnesses both spiritual and scholarly? Don't claim Skousen as he never wrote nor witnessed that Bruce's assertions were correct. One can barely determine whether they actually knew each other, let alone whether they actually had the same ideas. If they did collaborate, Skousen managed to keep his scholastic distance for some reason.

I have witnessed Bruce and Cleon discussing much, I saw and did hear Cleon request Bruce’s information, which Bruce has delivered to Cleon. I have other friends that have witnessed Bruce’s and Cleon’s meetings.

I have sat with Bruce in the offices of United States Senators, in meetings with Utah multimillionaires and billionaires, with prestigious Utah lawyers, while he visited with General Authorities, Key Church Employees, High ranking State officials, top BYU leaders. Oh, the names I could drop if I were in the mode of dropping names. Many of the who’s who of Utah could tell you a thing or two about Bruce. I personally have had to witness much. And other of Bruce’s friends report the same experiences. And if you do an Internet search, you will find that Bruce has taken his story to Court. Testifying in court is a witness. And I have a copy of all of those testifyings. Newspapers have carried his story, and I have copies of them too.

The common thread I find as I accompanied Bruce to all of these appointments with these great men is that they generally are under some sort of societal barrier, having to be going along to get along, with some very notable exceptions, as it pertains to the changes necessary to bring in Zion. Christ, when he was hanging on the cross mentioned the Gross Darkness on his oppressors of not knowing what they were doing. Christ was leading them to Zion and they as a people rejected his teachings. This Gross Darkness is prevalent today. Too much fear of man and not enough focus on God.

In writing and researching for the book that I am working on, about the untold history of Utah Valley of the last about 50 years, I have interviewed many witnesses, but I have not found one shred of evidence to discredit Bruce’s claims.

Bruce has been very cautious about being identified as the author of many of his past works, using the pen name Snorri Sturlusson. He has told me of periods of his life where he felt that he needed to disappear, living in a cabin in the middle of the desert for several years, under an assumed name, because he believed “They” were after him. Skousen knew this mind set of Bruce’s and many others have known this also. Walter P. Mann founded the nation wide Township Movement on Bruce’s works but he did not affix any credit to Bruce. What Bruce has freely given, he feels is his calling, some have inappropriately taken from Bruce, others who Bruce has felt that he is working with took intelligence from his work to continue the work of the Group. As I am doing so.

Speculation and random linguistic connections does not prove the truth. God holds himself responsible to provide multiple witnesses.

Where are the other witnesses?

For you, I guess I would suggest praying.

God Bless,
Darren

I have an acquaintance that has spent most of his adult life as a private ambassador for the first presidencies of the last several prophets. I believe he first worked with David O. McKay. His job was to quietly meet with apostate groups and express to them the love of the first presidency, find out what their differences were, try to find answers for their questions, and invite them to return to the church. Over the years he has met with hundreds of individuals and groups.

When I talked with him last, 15 years ago, as I borrowed a buck goat from his flock for breeding with ours, he said the common ground that all the apostate groups had in common was the absence of multiple witnesses. When the Lord restores truth or opens the doors of revelation he never leaves someone with only a single source for the truth, a single individuals testimony, or a single manifestation or revelation if it is information that is open for discussion to the masses.

Information, like that which you repeatedly present on this forum, is by nature, open for discussion. When I asked for witnesses, I didn't infer or mean that you drop names of wealthy or poor individuals that Bruce had met with, tried to teach or had argued with.

I ask for witnesses. Other scholars and more importantly prophets that teach and understand the concepts Bruce and yourself attempt to reveal and expose. Where are the open teachings of latter-day prophets teaching the same principles?

And NO, Bruce and yourself are not of the same worth when seeking truth as apostles that graduated from your alma mater. The Lord calls prophets to teach and expound. Choosing to be called is not the same as having God call you to testify and prophesy as a disciple and apostle of Christ.

Where are the other scholars teaching similar truths?

IF the concepts were important for us to learn and live by, the Lord would provide multiple witnesses teaching and disclosing the same principles and the truths would be simple enough for normal members to understand, not rambling impossible to connect.

IF they were important for us to learn and understand, He, the Lord would call others to testify of their truth.

Almost all apostate groups spin off because they find a single leader or teacher that they feel knows more and can teach more than the chosen prophets of the Lord. They all lack the multiple independent witnesses that are the hallmark of the Lords true church.

God's System of Witnesses

The Lord has always been careful to see that important phases of his work have competent witnesses. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. This idea of setting up groups, organizing local governments, setting up systems of trade and/or currency in a community are all important matters that the Lord openly taught Joseph, Brigham, as well as the founding fathers. It was not, and is not done in secret based on the teachings of a single man, even if he is your friend Bruce.

2 Corinthians 13:1
… In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

D&C 6:28
And now, behold, I give unto you, and also unto my servant Joseph, the keys of this gift, which shall bring to light this ministry; and in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Nephi was apparently aware of this system of witnesses when he introduced three great pre-Christian witnesses of the coming of Jesus Christ: Isaiah, Nephi himself, and Nephi's brother Jacob. Nephi then continues: "Wherefore, by the words of three, God hath said, I will establish my word." (2 Nephi 11:3.)

Don’t take my word for it. Here is part of chapter 13 from Joseph Fielding Smith’s “Doctrines of Salvation”. All the remaining is from this chapter. BTW, his following chapter is “The Church And Kingdom: The Kingdom of God On Earth: TWO KINGDOMS: THE ECCLESIASTICAL AND POLITICAL. Interesting that he would lay out the law of witnesses BEFORE disclosing the proper role of the Kingdom of God on Earth.

***********************
Doctrines of Salvation, Chapter 13
(portions deleted to shorten)

Nature And History of Law of Witnesses

WITNESSES SENT IN ALL DISPENSATIONS. There is a law definitely stated in the scriptures governing testimony and the appointment of witnesses. This law the Lord has always followed in granting new revelation to the people.

All down through the ages this law has been a fixed and definite one. If we had perfect records of all ages, we would find that whenever the Lord has established a dispensation, there has been more than one witness to testify for him. Paul in writing to the Corinthians said: "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

If you will look in your Bible, you will find that the Lord gave the law to Israel and it is recorded in Deuteronomy: At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death."

Of course, that reference to the trial of an individual is based upon the general law, which was to be applied not merely in trial where life was at stake, but in every important undertaking. In one of the discourses of our Lord, he said: "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."

OTHER WITNESSES AIDED NOAH. It is generally thought that the Lord called Noah, when he had determined to cleanse the earth with the flood, and sent him out alone to preach to the wicked inhabitants. It is sometimes said, without basis in fact, that Noah preached 120 years; and nothing is said of the preaching of other witnesses.

Let me call your attention to the fact that Noah was not alone in bearing witness. It is recorded in the Pearl of Great Price that: "It came to pass that Methuselah, the son of Enoch, was not taken, that the covenants of the Lord might be fulfilled, which he made to Enoch; for he truly covenanted with Enoch that Noah should be of the fruit of his loins. And it came to pass that Methuselah prophesied that from his loins should spring all the kingdoms of the earth (through Noah), and he took glory unto himself."

Now Methuselah, grandfather of Noah, was a righteous man and a prophet. He knew by the spirit of revelation that the flood would come in the days of Noah. Moreover, he lived until the year of the flood when he died. Do you not think that this righteous man was also declaring repentance to the perverse world, and warning them of the flood which was to come? Again, Lamech, father of Noah, was also a righteous man and he lived until five years before the flood. It is reasonable to suppose that he, too, was preaching to the people, as well as his father and his son.

OTHER WITNESSES IN DAYS OF ABRAHAM AND OF MOSES. We do not know much about the dispensation of Abraham. We speak of it as the dispensation of Abraham, but what about Elias who held the keys of that dispensation? Melchizedek was living in the days of Abraham, was the one who blessed him, and without question understood the covenant the Lord had made with Abraham. . . .

When Moses was called to lead Israel, that was another great and important event. Moses had to flee from the courts of Egypt. He went out among the Midianites and became a herdsman, tending the flocks of Jethro, sometimes spoken of in the scriptures as Reuel. The Lord appeared to Moses in the burning bush as he was thus employed and called him to a mission. But the Lord did not leave him alone to testify to the Pharaoh of Egypt. What did he do? He sent Aaron the brother of Moses to assist him.

Moses said to the Lord, "I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou has spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue." So the Lord appointed Aaron to be a spokesman for him. Why did Aaron wait 40 years before he came to Moses and then appear just at the right time? Because the Lord sent him, not only to be spokesman, but to bear witness with Moses that the Lord had spoken.

The Savior took Peter, James, and John with him on the mount at the time of the transfiguration. Why did he not take Peter alone? Because he wanted more than one witness. And we would find, I am confident, if we had the perfect record, all down the ages, whenever the Lord introduced a dispensation, he did not leave one man to testify alone.

JOSEPH SMITH OBEYS LAW OF WITNESSES. Joseph Smith was alone when he went into the grove to pray and beheld the Father and the Son. He was alone when Moroni appeared to him in his father's home, and he was alone in meeting the angel at the Hill Cumorah each year for four years. This was true because it was not necessary on these occasions for another witness to be present, anymore than for two witnesses to witness the power of the Lord in the burning bush.

But suppose that this had continued on through the entire mission of Joseph Smith and he had declared to the world: "I received the plates of the Book of Mormon and translated them by the gift and power of God, but I was alone. I wrote the translation when I was alone. John the Baptist came to me and gave me the Aaronic Priesthood, but I was alone; there was no other witness. Also Peter, James, and John came to me and conferred upon me the Melchizedek Priesthood, but I was alone."

Suppose that in each instance when keys of authority were bestowed he had declared that it was a personal visitation to himself, and that it was the will of the Lord that he be alone? Then we could with perfect propriety reject the testimony of Joseph Smith, for it would not be true.

CHRIST OBEYS LAW OF WITNESSES. Now let me refer you again to the scriptures: "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. Ye sent unto John, and he bear witness unto the truth."

Let us not misunderstand. When Christ said, "There is another that beareth witness of me," he was not speaking primarily of John, although John did bear such a witness. He was speaking of Another Witness, and what he says is true: "If I stand alone and no one testifies for me, then you can reject my testimony because the witness would not be true." It was his Father he had in mind when he said there was Another Witness.

…

LORD'S SYSTEM TO USE WITNESSES. There are other references in the scriptures, but these will suffice. Naturally the Father was not testifying to all the Jews. That is not the way he does. You know, if the Lord wished he could preach this gospel to the world by declaring it from the heavens. He could have his angels blow their trumpets and declare the message of salvation in the ears of all the world. Would not that be a much easier way to get the message of truth before the world than the expensive way of sending messengers clothed with authority at great expense and toil to try to teach the world?

But the ways of the Lord are not man's ways. He works through his witnesses, and in establishing his work in every age, he uses the few, not the many. Never since the beginning has the Lord declared himself to the unbelieving world, but he has sent out his messengers to preach the gospel to the world.

How easy it would have been for him to have sent an angel to Nineveh to cry repentance, rather than to ask Jonah who was unwilling to take that message. And what a time Jonah had! It was a great burden to him, and he hesitated, but finally went with his message. Could not the Lord have done it in a much easier way?

We read of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon in these last days. The Lord said to us, through Nephi, something of his plans as follows: "And there is none other which shall view it [that is, the Nephite record], save it be a few according to the will of God to bear testimony of his word unto the children of men; for the Lord God hath said that the words of the faithful should speak as it were from the dead. Wherefore, the Lord God will proceed to bring forth the words of the book; and in the mouth of as many witnesses as seemeth him good, will he establish his word; and wo be unto him that rejecteth the word of God!"
…

JOSEPH SMITH AND THE LAW OF WITNESSES
KEYS AND PRIESTHOOD ALWAYS GIVEN TO TWO WITNESSES.
Every time that the heavens were opened and keys had to be restored what happened? We have two witnesses. Joseph Smith was not alone. He was alone in the first vision, alone when Moroni brought the message to him, alone when he received the plates; but after that he was not alone. The Lord called other witnesses. Grandmother Smith in her history says that the Prophet came home weeping for joy after the witnesses had beheld the plates under the direction of an angel of God, because, he said, "The load has been lifted and I am no longer alone."

Every time keys were restored, two men received them. Why? Because it was necessary according to the divine law of witnesses for Joseph Smith to have a companion holding those keys; otherwise it would not have happened. So, as Oliver Cowdery states, when John the Baptist came, he and Joseph Smith received the Aaronic Priesthood under his hands; and when Peter, James, and John came, he was with Joseph Smith.

It was Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith who received the keys in the Kirtland Temple on the 3rd of April, 1836, when Christ appeared when Moses appeared, when Elias appeared, when Elijah appeared. And every time when the keys of a dispensation were bestowed it was to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery-not Joseph Smith alone. Why? Just because of what the Savior said: "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true."

If Joseph Smith had said, "I testify, and I testify alone," his testimony would not be true. There had to be two, that the testimony might be valid.

What I get from all the writings is this.

Live by the laws of God.

Use the priesthood that you have been given.

Live by the gospel.

And the history information that has been mentioned, just says to me that Christ taught other people. He said he did in the Book Of Mormon.

So, I do not see anything apostate with what is being said.

Bruce may see things differently being Autistic, and maybe I understand it because my son and husband both have Ausperger's.

To me it just is connecting the past to today, and how this nation started out on the foundation of gospel principles, and needs to return to them.

I don't see either of them setting themselves up as prophets or anything like that.

WhisperFox,
You have made an important point, Bruce and I discussed this late last night. His part of a reply is in the works and I feel I should begin now with mine.

When John the Baptist taught baptism for the remission of sin, this was not a new doctrine. Baptism was a mostly forgotten doctrine, or it was an almost unpracticed doctrine for these Israelites, John the Baptist was restoring to the Israelites their memory of this doctrine. Did this require the Law of Witnesses at that time? No, he was just reminding them of the witnesses they already had, from the memory of Israel’s Customs. The reason John the Baptist could justify the return to the doctrine of baptism to these Israelites and not have to find another witness while preaching in the wilderness to these Israelites is that the witness of that doctrine were a memory that the Israelites already had, albeit a dimming one.

When Bruce and I tell you to work together by the Law, we are not revealing any new doctrine here. You already have the witness in the memory of your culture, albeit a dimming one.

Tell me what is so new about any of the history behind these topics that we are sharing with you?

How about Christmas, Easter, Midsummer, All Hallows, Yule Tide, Midwinter, and all the related cultural niceties.

What is so new about working in corporations, as stock holders, under the obligation of bonds for performance? Are we to instead believe that working for a boss is a heritage from God? We are just trying to revive your memory of your customs of working together.

What is so new about telling you that the Internet is the work of God? Have you not read the words of the prophecy given by Hugh B. Brown at BYU on September 11, 1961, David O. McKay given in conference September 30, 1966, Spencer W. Kimball given in Conference April 4, 1974? Do we need to get into that now?

I offer that what Bruce and I are trying to do here is to get you to remember, nothing new. Perhaps new to those who do not remember.

Work Together By The Law, your ancestors did so, and they were not apostates, unless you subscribe to Catholic history.

God Bless,
Darren

A reply from Bruce Wydner:

A response to a request for The Law of Witnesses

It can be maintained that the World’s present Information Age was begun by the efforts of President David O. McKay at the Church’s Fall 1966 General Conference, by his encouragement to the Latter-day Saints and by his actions for BYU to begin working with the Government through Hill Field. This effort begun by President McKay later culminated with the software and hardware, the “killer applications,” most responsible for the development of the Internet. This work was done in top military secrecy at the Eyring Research Institute in Provo, Utah.

During the 1950’s and early 60’s the US Government told the World that it was beginning the development of a Communications Utility for the benefit of the World’s Population. This Communications Utility would make it possible so that everyone in the world would be able to electronically communicate with anyone else in the world. This Utility was planned to be an electronic network performing multi-lingual communications tasks.

At BYU, on the evening of September 11, 1961, President McKay’s Counselor, President Hugh B. Brown, knowing of the beginnings of this Communications Utility planned by the US Government introduced a prediction, by David Sarnoff, the Spokesperson for that US Government’s Communications Project, by saying:

David Sarnoff of the Radio Corporation of America, said to be the best informed man in his field in the world today, made some pertinent remarks.

He makes a prophecy. To you this is a prognostication, I suppose. He makes some statements and he makes them fearlessly. One or two only will I read you, telling what we have done and what we are going to do.

“By the year 1978, less than twenty years from now, we will have learned to extract atomic fuel from relatively inexpensive materials, thus making this power both plentiful and economical. The energy of the sun's rays will be effectively harnessed in a worldwide use. Television in full colors will be completely global so that men will be able to not only speak and hear around the globe and around the planets, but to see the entire world in natural colors. Individuals will be able to hold private two-way conversations and see each other as they talk, regardless of the distance separating them. Moreover, the beginnings will have been made in the automatic and instantaneous translation of languages, enabling people to understand one another across the barriers of Babel.”

Remember the message of the Master, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature"? Sarnoff says science will provide the vehicle and make it possible to do just that, because we can stand in Salt Lake and talk to all the world, and regardless of their languages they will understand what we say, and thus will the world become prepared for the coming of the Son of God.

My brethren and sisters, be prepared. All of this will happen.

President Hugh B. Brown, Address at Brigham Young University, September 11, 1961

At the Fall 1966 General Conference President McKay spoke and had others speak, including a person in Leadership in relation to Church Electronic Communications, about how the Church would use the Services provided by this Electronic Communications Utility.

We have taken only a few steps--just far enough to see the unlimited horizons in the technical ability to communicate to every nation and kindred and tongue and people that are now within our grasp.

Marvelous as these satellites seem to all of us at this time, it has been called the "crystal set" (the soon to be "old technology") of the future of worldwide broadcasting.

President David O. McKay, Fall General Conference, 1966

President Kimball entitled his first Address, as the President of the Church in a General Conference setting, “When the World Will Be Converted.” In that Address, in reference to what President McKay had said at that 1966 General Conference, President Kimball said:

President David O. McKay, speaking in the October 1966 General Conference of the Church said of the scientific discoveries of recent years which will make possible the preaching of the gospel to every kindred, tongue and people: “They stagger the imagination.”

Certainly these satellites are only the genesis of what is in store for the future of worldwide broadcasting.

President Spencer W. Kimball, April 4, 1974

It was only one month later, in November, 1966, when the US Government, in general, gave up on its Project to develop this Communications Utility among pronouncements such as, “Teaching Computers to understand English or any other Natural Language … has always been unrealistic.” [It may be remembered that, in the 1960’s, Dictionaries defined, a “compute-r,” as only: “an automatic electronic machine for performing calculations.” Then, they were only thought of as large “calculators,’ that were developed to “compute” arithmetic. They were not thought of as “word-processors” etc.]

With Members of the Church, speaking some 200 different Languages, the Church’s Curriculum available in 178 Languages, and the Church’s Missionary Work being done in 164 Languages, with the Church translating from “the World Language” of North American English into so many Languages and back, many people around the World consider the LDS Church to be the World-leading Organization in relation to its abilities for the Translation of Languages. The Church’s First Presidency’s insights into this subject motivated them to continue with the US Government’s Goal to develop an Electronic Communications Utility, to serve the people of the World from the USA, continuing that development and operating it from Utah.

Accordingly, President McKay assigned the BYU Departments of Linguistics and Computer Science to continue trying to develop the Computer Software that would automatically and instantaneously do enough of a Professional Language Translator’s work that it would be “cost-effective” for such a Translator to purchase that Software and the Hardware that it would operate on. That work was continued, by those Departments, on the BYU Campus, until 1979.

President McKay also called a renowned LDS Scientist to establish a BYU version of the Stanford Research Institute, to work off-campus from BYU in support of that BYU Project. That was called, “the Eyring Research Institute, ERI.” Then, it may have been President McKay who helped ERI to get its “First Funded Project,” which was a Top Military Secret Project for the Missile Directorate of the US Air Force, which operated from Hill Field, Utah.

However, here we come to a Problem. That Problem might be said as: “The Internet and the Word-processing and Networking Software that it operates on came from Utah; however, hardly anybody here in Utah has ever heard how it happened.” Let’s review how it happened, have you guess at about how many people here in Utah have ever heard anything about this, and see if our coming to understand what happened here helps us to show the world that the LDS people have saved the constitution.

On September 11-12, 1978, a Computer Program was demonstrated to recognized authorities that fulfilled the prophecy by President Brown. That software invention was created using the hired assistance of the Facilities at the Eyring Research Institute (ERI), and was heralded in the Wall Street Journal as “the Invention of the Cost-effective Computerized Translation of Human Languages.” When that happened the Defense Department’s ARPA (today called, “DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency”) instructed ERI to use that language software as the way to develop the Computer Software for the ARPANET through Hill Field. As this was happening DARPA completely revolutionized all Occidental understanding of languages by naming this Development; from these Utah Linguists, Programmers etc. with whom DARPA interacted at ERI; the “TECHNOLOGY” OF ALL OF THE LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. THE NAME WHICH THEY HAVE USED FOR IT, TILL THIS DAY, IS, “HUMAN LANGUAGE TECHNOLOGY!”

The inventors of that technology called it, “Nephite Human Language Technology,” because it is the way that ancient Nephite language works, similar to the way that ancient Oriental language works. Today the entire World is operating on this Technology of all of the Human Languages of the World; through all of the Worlds’ Networking Software, Word-processing Software, the Internet etc. by the TECHNOLOGY of all of the Human Languages of the World, that was the TECHNOLOGY OF ALL LANGUAGES OF what many think of as, THE HIGHEST CIVILIZATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

“So, what is the Problem?”

The Defense Department established a horrible precedent by; in complete disregard of Article 5 of the Bill of Rights, “… nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation”; by just ROBBING the Owners/Developers, of what DARPA named, “Human Language Technology,” of their very Valuable Personal Property. With that Precedent set, virtually everybody else here in Utah were ROBBED of their Contributions toward these Developments. That one word, “Robbery,” starting with that First One, by DARPA, from that First One’s Utah Inventors and Innovators, was what was continued on by others. That is “the Whole Story” of the points that have been addressed in the part of our Message, till now.

“So, what do we do now?”

The LDS Church is recognized as having the Genealogy Resources which make the people who know them well the World’s Foremost Experts on the Genealogy of the Human Race. Among those Records are the Records of the Ancient “Townships” of the Nordic Race, of Northern Europe. When the Catholic Church eventually came to Northern Europe it named these Townships, “Communes,” because of the fact that everybody who lived in them all met together, every “Son- (of God) -day”; as they have always expressed that name for the Seventh Day of their Nordic Race concept of their Seven-day “week”; so that they could participate in what the Catholic Church named, “the Communion of the Lord’s Supper.” The LDS Church has the most comprehensive Collection of all of the “Communes” of Europe in the World. LDS People who acquaint themselves intensively with these Records know thousands of times as much about the “-ism” (the beliefs) of the “Communes” of Nordic Europe as the “insanities,” proposed by Aliens to that part of the World, who invented their name of, “Communism,” as their proposals for what they guessed that those original Beliefs were.

The LDS Church recommended the person who was in charge of the gathering of Copies of those Records from all of the Communes of Europe, who was also the person who was over the LDS Church Genealogy Program, Archibald F. Bennett, as “the person who probably knew more about Genealogy that any person who ever lived.”

Because I had been over Genealogy for the Finnish Mission and had been shown, by the Finnish Government, the Copies of their Ancient Township Records that the Church left with the Finnish National Government (as the Church’s “Thank You” to them for allowing them to go into all of the Country’s Townships and make two photocopies of all of those Records, one Copy to be sent to Salt Lake and the other Copy for that National Government’s Archives; which Procedure the Church did with all of the National Governments of Europe that were involved), when I returned from my Mission and went back to BYU I took a Class from Archibald F. Bennett.

The only place in the World where a Copy was preserved of the original Story of the Formation of the Townships of the Nordic Race, and of the origin of “the Culture” of all of those Townships; the name of which throughout all of Nordic Europe has always been the Ancient Nordic word, “Law; was in the Ancient “Commonwealth of Iceland.” All throughout Nordic Europe School Children are required to learn that Original Story, from the Icelandic “Sagas,” because, the Children are told, “It is the only available Story of the origin of the Ancient Culture of the Nordic Race, the uniform ‘Law’ of the North European Countries where the Nordic Race has lived.” However, for anyone who has ever lived in Scandinavia and who speaks the Scandinavian Languages, as I do, we know that the People of Nordic Europe have treated those Icelandic Sagas the way that Americans treat “Fairy Tales,” ever since they were first published throughout Nordic Europe in early Modern Times.

In that Class that I took from Archibald F. Bennett he informed us that, “If a person has access to all of the Records of all of the Ancient Townships of the Nordic Race, they PROOVE that that Original Story of the origin of The LAW of the Nordic Race is TRUE.” When I heard that I felt that I would learn all of the rest of the Languages of the Nordic Race and study their Histories, in those Languages, and write my PhD Thesis on what Brother Bennett had told us, because, from my living in Scandinavia (and being half Scandinavian) I knew how explosive that information would be throughout all of Nordic Europe.

The “Problem” at that time was the “switchover” that the Federal Reserve had recently made, from operating on “Constitutional” Silver Coins to Fiat Money. The title of my Book at that time was, “The Rise, Decline and Fall of the America’s Economy [the Ancient Greek word for using Coins] and the Rebirth of America’s Commonwealth.” The US Revolution was “organized” by what they called the “Commonwealths” of New England and was won by the Militias of the Ancient “Anglo-Saxon” Townships of those Commonwealths, who organized themselves into what they began and named, “the United States Army.”

The brilliant idea that was behind the United States Constitution, which those New Englanders, alone, wrote, was that the United States of America would be governed by the “Laws” that the American People voted for in their Township Meetings, in all of the Townships into which they divided their part of the North American Continent after winning the Revolution. This thought was so brilliant that the Most Dynamic Way Of Working Together, that the World has ever heard of, is the “imitation” of the ways that the voters in the Town Meetings of New England govern themselves. That imitation was the concept of the “US Business Corporations” that are the great US part of the Free Enterprise System. The Stockholders and their Boards of Directors of US Business Corporations vote to enact their “By-Laws,” which are the same “Township-Laws,” the “By-Laws,” which Townships enact. Throughout Scandinavia every Township there is named a, “By” (it is where its people “a-bi-de”). (There are many Townships in Old England that are named “something-by,” such as Cros-by, Ingolds-by, Horn-by etc.)

In relation to the Story of the Origin of the Townships of the Nordic Race, the way that they dominate life in New England, till this day, the way that that way of life was intended to be maintained throughout the USA by the way that the New Englanders who wrote the US Constitution intended for that way of life to be respected throughout the USA, and the way that that Township way of life was to be preserved by the native-born New Englanders through whom the Lord restored His Church, has reference made to it in Section 86 of the Doctrine and Covenants. There the Lord says:

D&C 86:8. Therefore, thus saith the Lord unto you, with whom the priesthood hath continued through the lineage of your fathers-

9. For ye are lawful heirs, according to the flesh, and have been hid from the world with Christ in God-

10. Therefore your life and the priesthood have remained, and must needs remain through you and your lineage until the restoration of all things spoken of by the mouths of all the holy prophets since the world began.

11. Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness, a light unto the Gentiles, and through this priesthood, a savior unto my people Israel.

The way that new Revelations become Scripture, the Law of the Church, is by them being voted for by “the General Conference of the High Priesthood of My Church,” where all of the Bishops of all of the Wards and the Stake Presidents all vote. And, the way that all things are done in all Wards being by voting is unique in the modern Christian World, except in the Town Meetings of the “fathers” of the Founders of the Church, which is a way that the LDS people have been able to do what the Lord said, when He said, “Therefore, blessed are ye if ye continue in my goodness.”

So, when I told Cleon the TRUE Story of the origin of “the Law” of the Nordic Race, of how our Ward Way of Life is a “continuation” of the Lord’s “goodness,” as maintained by our “fathers,” and that if we LDS will “continue” our Church Way of Life in our “Business” dealings with each other; in which World of Business US Business Corporations are only “continuations” of the procedures on New England Township Meetings, which our continuation of our “Church Way of Life” is similar to; we can “continue” a prosperity among ourselves even though “the same old lures and tricks that all of the rest of the world is” “falling for” are having bad results elsewhere.

Ten years after I told Cleon that information he told me that he had taken that message and given it to Meetings that had been attended by 300,000 participants.

Then, Elder, Gordon B. Hinckley had instructed me to write my Language Textbook in late 1968. I had completed writing it and was introduced with it at the Language Training Mission by his Assistant, Loren C. Dunn, in the Summer of 1971. After I got it printed I moved down to Provo with it in early 1972.

For those people who wanted to work in my Project I, first, said that we could work together like a Township Meeting/Business Corporation with emphasis on our strict maintenance of our LDS Standards of complete honesty etc. in the progress of our Business together. However, in those years of trying to introduce my “Invention” in the environment of BYU, where progress was quite slow, I researched how the “London Bond Market” which controls all of the Finances of the World, was the “model” that our New England “fathers” copied, to “continue” in America what our “fathers” had “continued” since the Ancient Beginning of Law, as told in the Icelandic Sagas. So, from the mid 70’s I suggested that we work together by the Rules of the London Guild System, of which the Church Historian, Leonard Arrington, said that some of the Church’s United Orders, in the days of Territorial Utah, “were just a continuation.”

My Textbooks, for how to learn a Language quickly, were quite generally ignored in the BYU environment where I was trying to introduce them. The entire concentration there was upon trying to find a way to teach Computers how to translate between Human Languages in a way that it would be “cost-effective” for Professional Translators to buy that type of Software and the Hardware to operate it. There was, basically, no progress that was being made trying to do that. Then, in the Summer of 1977 it dawned on me that my Textbook provided the approach that would accomplish that. Since what I was doing now had something to do with Computers, more people became interested in working with me to do that. The “corporation” that I incorporated to do that was named, the “Inns of the Temple”; like the name in London for the four Ancient Law Schools of the Common Law of England. The identicalness by which the Professional Guilds of London operated through the Oaths which their Members took in their Temple, the origin of New England from that London Temple environment, and the continuation in Utah’s Territorial United Orders of focusing on the Oaths which those United Orders’ Members took in our Temples here, seemed to me to be the way to get our LDS people, here, to put such emphasis on our LDS Standards of Complete Honesty with each other and Righteousness in our planning, for how we could pursue the Goal of the Church for the establishment of the Worldwide Interlingual Telecommunications Utility, that this is “the way (that) will open up for our people to work together by the Law” and help us establish and then be able to operate that Utility for the benefit of the Church and for the World.

My team put on an adequately impressive demonstration in January, 1978, on the Large Mainframe Computer that the BYU Machine Translation Project used. Because of that success, the BYU Computer Science Department suggested that we continue the commercial development of our Software at the Eyring Research Institute, telling us that if we did that we would be given a BYU discount on the $70,000 Minicomputer that we could commercially sell our Software on. Since ERI said that it was willing to work for me, I first required them to sign a “15-year Non-compete, Non-disclosure, Non-circumvent Agreement” with me. From the very beginning I was terribly disappointed at the very incompetent services which they provided for me and my Associates.

In this very disappointed environment our Project was held in contempt. I had no idea, until informed of it 21 years later, that the entire reason that there was an ERI was so that this fancy Institute could perform for a world-class University the Research Services that would allow the US Defense Department to take the BYU Invention of Cost-effective Machine Translation and make that Human Language Technology into the Intelligent Systems Technology that would allow the Air Force’s Missile Directorate to transmit intelligible Human Language telecommunications from their Computer at Hill Air Force Base to the Computer Chips on “every single Missile in our Missile Force” and allow the Reagan Administration to have its Victory over the Soviet Union. To the Leadership of ERI that some silly would-be Inventor thought that he could do what ERI had been failing to do, for years, was a contemptible thing to think about, to those Leaders.

In that atmosphere of contempt we were asked to put on a demonstration. The person who was asked to come to that Demonstration, at ERI, was the Top Person of the Translation Profession of the USA, the President-elect of the American Translators Association, the Person who was the Head of all Translation for the Wells Fargo Bank from its Headquarters. After that Demonstration my Invention was recognized around the World as being the Invention of the Cost-effective Computerized Translation of Human Languages, which meant that the Computer automatically and instantaneously did about 85% of the mental work that Human Translators did. And the entire Computer Industry has not been able to rise above that “85% of effectiveness Steel Ceiling” from that day till this. However, in my trying to put on the best Demonstration that I could, at ERI, it came to me how to teach the Computer to do 100% of the mental work that Human Translators do. That is what we have been demonstrating, with training people how to learn the Spanish Language, from that time till now. Those who take that training see how the World Computer Industry could have been working with this 100%-effective Software, for the past nearly 30 years now, if not for the Robberies that happened next.

On the evening of September 11, 1961 President Hugh B. Brown said that the statement that: “By the year 1978” “the beginnings will have been made in the automatic and instantaneous translation of languages” was “a prophecy.” On the evening of September 11, 1978, at about the time that President Brown was making his Prophecy, in 1961, the President of the American Translators Association, the ATA, arrived in Provo.

The following morning at the Demonstration at ERI, after a most contemptible introduction, by the leadership of ERI, of us to that President, and then after that leadership excused themselves from our Silly Demonstration, we put on our Demonstration. At the end of the Demonstration that President of the ATA requested that we type a very long and complicated Spanish Sentence, that he and his Associate composed, into our Computer to see how it would come out in English. Now, perhaps one time in twenty such an attempt will translate quite well. Then, something that had never happened before, in the History of trying to develop Machine Translation, happened, a miracle. My Invention translated that Sentence, of that President and of his Associate, perfectly. The President of the ATA was so thrilled by that that he invited us to be the Central Attraction at the soon coming Annual Convention of the ATA, which was to be held in New York City. At that time the leadership of ERI, in a very disrespectful way, returned to our Demonstration Room. They asked the President of the ATA what he thought of the Demonstration. He responded, “I came as a total skeptic; I have never been converted to anything so fast in my life!” When I saw how completely devastated the President of ERI and his Assistant were at that, I realized that they were the Enemies of our Project and made my plans to remove our operation away from ERI.

When the (now very changed) President of ERI heard that I was moving he very politely asked, “Why?” Trying to not be rude, I brought up a shortcoming of his personnel. I mentioned how ERI had no Computer Programmers who knew Spanish and that therefore it was so hard to communicate to them what we needed them to do for us. He mentioned that one of their recently hired Programmers had been a Missionary in Italy. Since I had professionally translated both Spanish and Italian and knew that his services could be useful, I told the President of ERI that I would give him a try. I trained him in how my overall Program translated from Spanish into English and he was able to understand how all of the Computer Programming that was needed was operating.

When the Robbery happened a few months later, for his teaching all of the Computer Programming Staff at ERI how to switch, to using my Software, instead of trying to make Intelligent Systems Technology Software for the Air Force out of the failed BYU Project, he was bribed, by him and his partner being given, by ERI, a stolen Copy of my Program for Spanish, and one for English, a Large Research Computer to use, free, for two years, and the financing that assisted the two of them to produce the WordPerfect Corporation. Investigating that, that development seemed that it was done almost entirely with the Property which ERI had stolen from me.

Before leaving for the ATA Convention in New York City an associate of mine and I extracted an obligation from the leadership official who had introduced us so contemptuously to the ATA President. It was that he was to have no authority to communicate anything which my Associates and I were doing, without asking for my permission to do that, first. While I was traveling to New York City he produced the Article in the Wall Street Journal that announced to the World that I had invented the Cost-effective Machine Translation of Human Languages. A week later, while I was still in New York City, the Article came out in the Deseret News where that ERI Official lied and exaggerated the tiny role that ERI had played in the Development of my Invention. Then, as he had no authority nor right, at all, to do, because of my 15-year Contract of restrictions against ERI, he included the mysterious announcement, which no one outside of ERI and the Air Force understood: “Government also may use the equipment.”

After a most Successful Introduction of our now famous Invention of Cost-effective Machine Translation to the USA’s Translators’ Profession at their Annual Convention, a very large World Press Conference was held in the Central Manhattan Hotel’s Ballroom where the ATA Convention had been held. After that Press Conference my Invention has been very famous around the entire World.

However, when I returned to Provo and to my rented Office, at ERI’s building, I was mortified to see how possessive of my “Life’s Work” Property ERI’s hired employees had become. In a desperate way I took all of my possessions out of my rented facilities in the ERI Building and to my residence.

At this point, the heart of this Story, I do not know what happened. All that I can do is report the results of what happened. In Europe, where my Invention immediately became very famous, apparently the US Defense Department told its colleagues in NATO that the President of the LDS Church (of “the Mormon community of the Brigham Young University, in Utah”) paid me “five million dollars” to “invest” in my “undertaking.” The Leadership of ERI were forced to lie to President Kimball and let him believe that the Air Force’s approval and payments were for “the BYU Program” that the Church had financed. After believing for nearly 2 years that the BYU Program’s developments, that he encouraged so much, and especially the developments for the Air Force which were being developed at ERI, named for his Brother-in-law, were the successes for the top-secret government program for which he worked so hard, he was devastated, almost to fainting, in my and Elder Boyd K. Packer’s presence, after he found out what had really happened with the Property that had been stolen from me.

As my Programmer who betrayed me started prospering in his development of WordPerfect, with my stolen Invention of what the US Air Force named, “Human Language Technology,” four of the ERI employees who were producing the Intelligent Systems Technology Software; which allowed the Missile Directorate’s Computer to send intelligible human language telecommunications to the Computer Chips “in every single Missile in our Missile Force”; bribed ERI’s President that they were going to tell me if he tried to stop them from selling what they had developed, for the Air Force, to the public, through the Novell Corporation, which they founded. In late 1995 that past President of ERI finally told me how he fired all four of them for “Blackmail!”

The lies that were told to me and to my Associates, and the Bribes that were paid out to so many of them to betray me, proved something that was very disheartening. It will probably be admitted that many people in this part of the world will accept money for thefts. In this part of the world, where honesty is spoken of a lot, people might try to justify their participating in a Robbery, saying to themselves that their part that they did for the money they were paid really wasn’t all that bad.

The devastating thing in all of this, though, was the TOTAL IRRELEVANCE of their Temple Covenants, that had been made a part of the qualifications for their access to the Trade Secrets of my Life’s Work, that so many of my former associates, who betrayed me, showed was the way that they really disregarded the obligations which others might have thought that they were committed to honor, by what each of them had agreed to in the covenants which each of them had made in the Temple.

Comments were made, after the fact, such as: “There was a reasonable amount of money there, that I could get for doing what I did; I needed it; so I took it.” This type of reasoning might be offered by any Christian, trying to justify what is a breaking of the Ten Commandments. However, that that same shallowness of commitment to spiritual truth might be the factual personality of many who are thought of as, “Latter-day Saints,” was a very defeating type of information to have to recognize.

In 1989 I participated as an instructor in a Masters Degree Course, at the University of Utah, where the Participants were writing their M.A. Papers in relation to my Project. One of the Students was a son-in-law of Rick Warner, the former owner of a number of Car Companies in Salt Lake City. Rick had mortgaged his Car Companies to his Fraternity Brother, Ray Noorda, in order to use that funding to invest in the attempt at the commercialization of the BYU Machine Translation development, after it was put off-campus, in 1979. As that attempt failed Rick lost his Car Companies to the Noorda Venture Fund, which sold them to other dealers.

At the conclusion of the Course Rick’s son-in-law told me that Rick had told him to give to me the two Books from Europe on which he based his M.A. Paper, that he had read to the Class. One of the Books had been published for the Commission of the European Union, the Organization that has had, in recent years, the biggest annual Translation Budget in the World, of about ¼ of a Trillion Dollars. The Book, published in 1983, announces the Success of my Invention and specifies how a leader over Machine Translation for the Commission, Ian Pigott, had proven that my Invention was a success by finding that by using it he could produce three times the Translation Work that he would have been able to produce otherwise. After reading that I made contact with Ian.

The other Book, published in Britain, in 1985, by a Principal Publisher of Reports for the Financial Capital of the World, the London Bond Market, announced the success of my Invention but then complained at the Money that “Hicks,” up in the Rocky Mountains of the USA, were making in areas that had previously been dominated by London. A suggestion of how they might take over from those Hicks was mentioned.

After my Contact with Ian, in late 1991, he put me in contact with Geoffrey Kingscott of London, the General Editor of The Foremost Journal of the Language Professions, who was widely considered to be, “The World’s Number One Reporter in Language Matters.” During our call we made arrangements for me to take Geoffrey to lunch when he came to Provo. When he came to Provo he asked me how I started my Invention that made it so that, among other things, the results that he came upon included that, “the Utah Valley is for Languages what Silicon Valley is for Computers.” I told him what I did, and he wrote the most complimentary series of Articles, in the next Edition of his Magazine, about Utah becoming the Language Capital of the World.

He was also very complimentary about his visit to the WordPerfect Headquarters. He began his WordPerfect article: “I visited WordPerfect, generally recognized to be the world leader in word processing software (it claims 65% of the DOS market) on March 19. It now claims nine million end users.” Then, “Total sales … had risen to $532.6 million in 1991.” That day of his visit was on a Thursday. The following Tuesday, when the man who operated that Company, who had come up with the name, “WordPerfect,” etc., reported back to work from a trip he had been on, he was fired; and WordPerfect “fell like a rock out of the sky.” Apparently this, “World’s Number One Reporter,” from London, after interviewing me about my Invention then interviewing my former Programmer and establishing that he was just a Thief with Stolen Property, reported back to London, to the power base there, that had been planning to take over WordPerfect since 1985, that this industrial prize should be easy to take out of the hands of that Thief.


WordPerfect had 6,000 high-paid Employees, 2,500 of them in Utah Valley. The two, now, soon-to-be former owners of WordPerfect, apparently, pled to Ray Noorda to rescue them. He did, for about one year. At the end of that time, Corel of England, that had been plotting this since 1985, took those 6,000 high-paying Jobs out of the USA to “someplace else,” away from producing Benefits here.

The big tragedy, though, was what happened to Ray Noorda’s main development.

The former President of ERI was always very up-front, in speaking with people, about how he fired the four Founders of Novell “for Blackmail.” Of the character that they were, it would not be expected that they would have lasted in business for very long. Indeed, Novell lost money in 1982 and needed to be sold. People who had heard of the unique leadership talents of Ray Noorda approached him to see if he would take over the leadership of Novell. He consented, in 1982, and was able to lead Novell’s operations so that it was able to bring in Sales of $3.8 Million in 1983.

An Internet article about Ray, perhaps written by one of his sons, starts out: “Computers were not made to be networked. At least that is what everyone thought. Everyone but Ray Noorda, that is.” The article continues telling how Ray intuitively faced all of the Problems that he faced in the creation of the Local Area Network Software Market, that most of its users think of when they think of, “the Internet.”

Ray’s constant, intuitive responsiveness to all of the different kinds of problems which he faced in creating what the Public thinks of as, “the Internet,” found him leading Novell, from bringing in $3.8 Million, in 1983, to $1.123 Billion, in 1993.

I met the Noordas through Tye, through the health care resources that she found to help Ray with the health problems that his most active way of life found him encountering. Every once in a while Ray would get sick for a rather long period of time. At one of those times, when his Assistant, Jim Bills, was leading Novell and WordPerfect for him, Jim told me of how “the Mafia,” from India, came in to take over Novell and WordPerfect. When I first met Jim he lived in a Hunting Lodge up high in remote Mountains. He said that he was there because, “He was a ‘refugee’ from Corporate America.” Apparently, when Ray’s enemies learned that he was going to be away, sick, for a relatively long while, they secretly made the arrangements to buy up a controlling interest in Novell. Then, as Jim tells the story, “This Mafia, of English-speaking people from India, came to him at the Novell Headquarters and told him that they had come, ‘to kick the Mormons out!’” When I first met the Noordas, Tye told me that Ray was so offended by the behavior of those people that he resigned as President, Chairman, and even as a Board Member, and that he never went back to that beautiful, big Headquarters Building that he built. However, it was not until I heard Jim Bills’ ugly details that I understood the “World Conspiracy-Secret Combination” activity in what was involved.

So, Corel of England came and took those 6,000 WordPerfect Jobs “someplace else,” as they had been plotting to do that since 1985; and so much of the value of Novell, in Utah, was stripped away from it that for the next 10 years its Stock was the Biggest Looser on a certain Index. Now, today, the leadership of Novell has been taken out of Utah; and Novell is operated from Massachusetts.

The survivors, the “Mormon” employees who had been “kicked out,” kept utilizing the talents which they had used and, in subsequent years, those former employees of Novell and WordPerfect etc. made for Utah “The Third Biggest Software Industry in the USA, after those of California and Washington,” with a Gross Annual Income of about $8 Billion. Today, however, virtually all of them have had their “Software businesses” robbed from them, with what is left here in Utah, today, being referred to as, “the Utah Technology Industry”; a little lower down the scale in profitability from when those Jobs used to be in the Utah Software Industry.

So, now we are to the place where we can get specific about how “the way,” that President McKay prophesied to Cleon Skousen would “open up” for us, so that “Our People” will be able to “work together” in a way that is beneficial to us rather than detrimental.

In talking about a good way to begin this a suggestion comes up to which so many could react with a “slamming shut” on a participating interest with, “none of this sublime to the ridiculous for me!” However, this little bit of an observation seems to help many be able to understand “the situation” quickly and well. “And, what is that little observation about?” It is about the Walt Disney comic character of Scrooge McDuck.

That character is rather well known. It is of a strange little person from Scotland who, instead of just going out and trying to have fun, like everybody else did, just works so much so that he can get so much money that he can fill a swimming pool full with gold coins, and then can lay on them and splash them onto himself, for his idea of a “good time.” “Who is this a characterization of?” It is of Andrew Carnegie. He came to the USA as a child in a poverty-stricken family that had to work very hard to survive. His habits for hard work got him working hard in the Steel Industry, and so much so that he invented the procedures for the mass production of Steel. When J. P. Morgan gave this little person from Scotland a check, to buy from him his Carnegie Steel Company, in order for it to be changed into the United States Steel Company, that check was given with the words, “I want to congratulate you, Mr. Carnegie, on becoming the Richest Man in the USA!” And, that was the beginning of the satirizations of Andrew Carnegie, as the comic character of Scrooge McDuck.

In those days Newspapers were the principal medium of information. And, it would sell newspapers to have some news that was a howling satire of Andrew Carnegie. A young newspaper reporter was assigned to go to interview Mr. Carnegie. Of course Carnegie knew of all of the satires that were being made of his way of life. And, of course, the young reporter would not have been invited in to interview Mr. Carnegie if it was suspected that he was just one more trying for another howling satire. So, the young reporter, whose name was Napoleon Hill, tried to begin his interview on what he thought was a respectable approach. He asked him, “Mr. Carnegie, how was it and what was it that you did to become a Success?” He did not expect the most stern answer that he got back from that question (which well might have been the lead-in question that had become a hurtful satirical attack upon Mr. Carnegie in a previous interview).

Carnegie’s answer was, “You criminally ignorant people. There is only one way that anyone can become a Success. If you are sincere and really want to know the answer to that question, I will make the arrangements for you to interview the 500 persons who are the most responsible for making America into an ‘Industrial Success’; and you will see that every one of them did it the exact same way!” [In his businesslike way, Carnegie pushed the starter on a Stop-watch which he had in his pocket. If the young reporter really was a fake he would take more than a minute to give his answer, and Carnegie wouldn’t have then cared what he said. He would just have concluded that interview.] However, after only about ½ minute the young reporter answered, “Oh, thank you Mr. Carnegie. I accept that, and I will carry these interviews through to their completion.”

Carnegie arranged the Interviews, and the young reporter interviewed 100 of those 500 persons, every year for five years. Then, when that was done, he repeated that. He repeated that four times over a total of 20 years. Beside Mr. Carnegie, the young reporter interviewed Edison, Ford, the Wright Brothers, Graham Bell etc. And, sure enough, they all gave the same answer for what each did to become a Success.

They each did what each of the youths in the European Guild System, such as it is still practiced in London, did, to be admitted as a Free Man in a Guild.

What that required was that each of those Christian youths would ask his Heavenly Father what it was that his Heavenly Father wanted him to do with his life. Then, as one of those youths felt that he was getting his answer, he would secretly (that is, sacredly, just between him and God) write down on a piece of paper what it is that he thinks that God wants him to do. Then, in London, he would apply to be an “apprentice” in that one of the 25 Ancient Guilds of London wherein was practiced that one of the 25 Ancient Christian Crafts that he felt that it was his responsibility to be able to work in. (In similar Guilds on the Continent, in the Netherlands, these Youths were known by the Ancient Nordic name of, “Learners.”) While the Learner, the Apprentice, was learning the skills of the Professional Craft of his Craft Guild, he was to write down his “Articles of Apprenticeship.” This was that youth’s Personal “Constitution” for his Life. In it each Learner had written down what he felt his “Major Definite Purpose in Life” was, and the plan that he shared, with his Father in Heaven, for how he would be able to reach that Purpose. Upon meeting other Learners, in his Craft Guild, who had established similar Goals for themselves, these Learners could plan together how they were going to establish their Careers to accomplish the Goals which each one of them had set for himself, and, also, how they would be able to assist one another in accomplishing these Goals. Their Master Craftsman Supervisors could also counsel them as to what were the best ways to accomplish these Goals that they had established for themselves.

In London when the Master Craftsmen Supervisors felt that an Apprentice was well enough along in the accomplishment of the Goals of his Articles of Apprenticeship, that youth was permitted to go through the Temple Ceremony of the London Temple and make his Promise to his Heavenly Father to faithfully pursue the Goals that he had written down in his Articles of Apprenticeship, in order for him to be able to be the most productive that he can be for the benefit of his Heavenly Father’s Children living in that Area. After successfully going through the Ceremony in the London Temple, such a young Learner advanced to thereafter be called with that word that is used throughout the Nordic Race, to this day, for “Christian Salvation,” that word which means being “Born Again,” which, throughout Nordic Europe, has always been the word: “Free.” After going through that Temple Ceremony in that way that boy, who went into the Temple as a Learner, is known as: “a Free Man.” The name that has been used throughout the 1,550+ year History of the Ancient Commonwealth of London is, “a London Free Man.”

As Andrew Carnegie had told him, Napoleon Hill documented it being true, that every one of those 500 men, that he so intensely interviewed those four times during those 20 years, had used that exact same procedure of the Ancient Guild System of Nordic Europe, of writing out a Personal “Constitution” for that person’s life, then earnestly seeking for others with similar Goals; and, in this Country (instead of thinking of those persons as one’s Guild Brothers) the name came up, that seemed to work, of those persons forming themselves into a, “Master Mind Group.”

Since the New England Colonies used the name of, “Commonwealths” for themselves, as did their Parent Commonwealth, in England, of London, from which the London Fishing Navy established New England, a similar procedure was established in New England, where, through a religious ceremony, in their Township Church, the successful Men of New England obtained the name, “American Free Men,” and that lasted down until after the successful conclusion of the American Revolution.

One of the things which Napoleon Hill sadly reported, however, is that, in the current circumstances of Life in the USA, “only 2% of the American People have the ability to write down what they think that their Major Definite Purpose in Life is.”

In the 86th Section of the D&C the New England born First Members of the Church were told that they “are lawful heirs” of “the priesthood” “according to the flesh” “through the lineage of your fathers” and that we are “blessed” “if” we “continue in” the Lord’s “goodness.”

In doing this it seemed like the Church was set up as such a continuation of the organization of those who were the New England Founders of the Church’s fathers’ fathers. That is, the Commonwealths of New England tried to be continuations of the Ancient Commonwealth of London. However, the Church was restored as a more close continuation of the Commonwealth of London, than of New England Commonwealths.

The word, “Law,” comes to us, in so many ways, from the Commonwealth of London. In England and Wales, till this day, is a Lawyer wants to be able to practice before a 12-man “Law” Jury, that Lawyer has to be associated with one of the Four Inns of Temple (Law Schools), in London, two of them at the site of the current Temple and two of them at the site of the Temple from before the Crusades.

When a young man in London goes into the Temple there, to take his Oath that makes him a London Free Man, he does that by “consecrating” the Work, that he has written down, that he feels his Father in Heaven has “called” him to do. After that, working with his Associates, who have in a similar way become London Free Men, that has been what has always been understood, in our “fathers’” Commonwealth of London for the last 1550 years of its History as the way we WORK TOGETHER BY THE LAW.

“What about working together by the Law, here in Utah?”

As has been referred to, a noted Historian, who served as the Church Historian, Leonard Arrington, wrote a Book entitled, “The United Order.” In it he mentioned that: “In Salt Lake City the United Order of Tailors and the United Order of Tanners were just a continuation of the English Guild System.” Those were Professional United Orders, and they probably seemed to operate quite identically with the Professional Guilds in London, of which they were continuations here in the Territory of Utah.

However, in Ogden Valley, where President McKay was raised, when he was a boy, growing up there, and his father served as the Bishop of the Huntsville Ward, it was in a supervisory capacity over those doing their agricultural duties in the environment of the United Order way that they worked according to their Temple Oaths of Consecration. He might well have been reflecting on that, and how superior that was, as a way to Work Together By The Law, in comparison to the abandon of such things in current circumstances. Yes, it might have only been agricultural duties, but they were done, somewhat, with a regard to consecrating that Work to their Heavenly Father, as that has been, somewhat, continued in London, in a way that has made the way that they do things there the reason that they are the Financial Capital of the World.

As was mentioned, the Time Before, when we tried to orient everybody so that they would try to orient themselves to work in the most responsible way possible as we introduced what we called, “Nephite Human Language Technology,” to the World. All of the Participants were asked to reflect upon the Oath of Consecration which each had taken in the Temple, as both a way to do our Work Together in the Most Superior way that it could be done, but also that it would keep us in mind of the very highest moral responsibility feelings, to help us escape the pitfalls that happen in Businesses all of the time. In relation to that last consideration, during the Time Before, the hope that those very highest moral responsibility feelings among all of us would protect us from the Robbers that came to rob us, it was if such things as an Oath of Consecration to one’s Heavenly Father, and then Working Together By The Law to accomplish the Goals that the Church Presidents had set, didn’t exist; in comparison with the, “There was a reasonable amount of money there, that I could get for doing what I did; I needed it; so I took it” explanations.

That absolute, total Collapse of trying to get LDS people to organize themselves around their highest capacities, with their Consciences working with the Truths of LDS Principles, was such a failure, because, for the rest of the history of the 85%-effective Human Language Technology era, here in Utah, that is during the time from the first Introduction of the Invention until the theft of the invention that founded the Utah Software Industry here, so many of those who were in our “the Time Before” participants group, here, were unable to perform in a way that could have made it so that, for the Innovations that took place here, the Jobs DID NOT need to go “someplace else.”

So, we were robbed that time, of our introductory version of Nephite Human Language Technology Invention and the developments that were based on it. Good LDS people cannot continue to tolerate a repetition of the Failures that happened the Time Before. The only way that we can now proceed ahead is by us Working Together By The Law. President McKay prophesied to Cleon Skousen that “The Way Will Open Up that will let us do that.”

As we have mentioned, in the History of “Working Together By The Law,” the Ancient Culture of the Nordic Race, still at the heart of the way that the Financial Capital of the World, London, works through its Temple, their Youths took their Oath of Consecration to become London Free Men. We have an Oath of Consecration in our LDS Temple Ceremony. “We don’t talk about our Temple Ceremony outside of our Temple, but, using the expressions of London’s Temple Ceremony, which people do talk about, would the way that Ray consecrated his abilities to God’s work have helped him to be able to see the future for the Internet so clearly, when he was the only one who could?” Let’s talk about the answer to that, because, as we will see, that is the purpose for everything that has been written here.

LDS people can be asked, “Is it part of your Religion for one to say, ‘I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them’?” LDS people will say, “Oh yes, that is very definitely a part of my Religion.”

The question can then be asked, “Will the Lord require you to do anything, in the Temple Ceremony, that he will not prepare a way for you to accomplish that?”

LDS people will probably say, “Oh, I’m sure the Lord would prepare that way.”

So, now our Conversation comes down to “THAT WAY.”

Again, using expressions from the oath taken in ancient London’s Temple, “When you consecrate your abilities to God’s work, will the Lord prepare a way for you to know what those abilities are and help you develop them and then use them for His work?”

Now, the sad thing, that was such a part of that “the Time Before” experience, was that it seems that so many people in this part of the World answer, “Oh, I have no idea at all what these things, that could be my abilities, are.”

Now the question, “Will the Lord prepare THE WAY for you to find out how to do what His Temple Ceremony requires of you?”

The answer to that could be a hesitant, “Well, of course He can, but I have not really dwelled very much on this subject, to ask about it.”

In reference to that Book, that was given to us by Rick Warner, that was published in London, in 1985, by that Principal Publisher of Reports for the Financial Capital of the World, the London Bond Market, mention was made of the contempt which they expressed for those Stupid Hicks, up in the Rocky Mountains of the USA, who looked like they were going to be making so much of the Money that their Financial Capital had been controlling but “who … were … outsiders who were able to ignore the fashions … in the high and remote valley of the Great Salt Lake in Utah.”

That contempt had not changed at all when, in 1993, their agents, that “Mafia,” in Jim Bills’ words, came “to kick the Mormons out” and have Corel of England take WordPerfect out of the USA and so much of the value of Novell out of Utah.

With only one Ray Noorda here they were crafty enough to wait for him to be away sick, for some while, to be the time for their attack.

However, with Thousands or Millions of the Mormons getting THE MESSAGE of President McKay and taking THE WAY to the Right Way to do things among the Lord’s Servants, from Nephi down to our latter-day leaders, at this time, how ever crafty the Enemies of the LDS people think that they are; President McKay said that we would learn to Work Together by the Law. That our people know how to run things so much better than those Foreigners ever thought was possible, that they will only have the options to just sit there, in their crashed situation, just looking up at that Gigantic Brick Wall or to just pick themselves up to go away and never return.

I believe that sums up The Law of Witnesses, that the Elders have saved the constitution, that the Internet was the work of Prophets, and that we are to work together by the Law of our Ancestors.
God Bless,
Darren

OK, I made it through (that was brutal). I think I agree with what Bruce is saying.

I do believe we each have a unique "plan of salvation" that we can find out directly from Heavenly Father (this comes from my own observations, backed by a talk by Marion G. Romney and by Richard G. Scott, with much of my thoughts coming from a Ethic class I took at BYU where the main book used was Personal Destinies, which I have listed in the Book Recommendation section.)

In reading through Bruce's response I felt the same confirmation of this again.

But in the world we live in I am constantly going back and forth between working on what I feel is my "personal uniqueness" that I can give to the world vs. trying to fight for the freedom to express that uniqueness.

Sometimes I am extremely passionate about developing my talents to share with the world and helping those in my area of influence to do the same. But other times (as was brought out again in this story) I feel like there are too many people that will throw away these "covenants" for money, so I then feel the more important fight is to fight for the system that might protect from this happening (e.g., in my mind this would be standing up for the Constitution.)

And of course we would all go crazy in this back and forth dilemma if we didn't have Christ's atonement that gives hope for both ourselves and for those who wrong us (or who are still struggling to believe that they have their own talents) to repent.

Isn't this life wonderful?

So my question is can we live by the Law and express our talents fully right now, or are we still in the learning phase where we won't be able to completely live by the Law until some more conditions are met. A lot of things have to be in place for us to truly live by the Law.

1. We have to have made the effort to have a personal relationship with our Heavenly Father to find out what is our "uniqueness" so we can covenant to give that to the world.

2. We then have to have enough trust in ourselves and our relationship to our God that the covenant we have made is true.

3. And the hard part is then to also trust that others have done the same. People may offend us (and we may offend others) because they/we are still in the learning phase and we all must be patient enough with them (and even ourselves) to realize that we can repent through Christ and try again. Or they may offend us because they truly want power, money, etc. more than living up to a covenant with God. For those in the first category, we have to be patient and then eventually we can live by the law. For those in the second category, we need a judgment from God so we can separate ourselves from them before we can live by the law.

So is now the time to be finding out what our talents are so we can live by the law with others? Or is now the time to be helping God with the separation by standing up for the Constitution and other "covenants"? It's probably a little of both, but I sure have a difficult time prioritizing which I should be spending more of my time in doing.

Agreed. Right now I say both to the best of our ability. You have to remember though to keep things in context. Even Moroni at the end had nothing better to do than wander around and watch or go back to the cave and proof read the plates again (probably for the millionth time). Right now we are very restricted in our opportunity to fully express our talents in society, but that will change and our efforts as you said must then be to create that sought for environment AND to develop and express those talents. I don't think that one can be put before the other in importance but I would put creating the environment as chronologically and necessarily first.

A reply to John Adams,

Elder Benson said, “the Elders of this Church will step forward to save the Constitution when it hangs by a thread; but the Church will not organize them to do that, they will organize themselves”

Do you believe that the Church could today announce to its members that it was returning to the doctrine of living by the United Order? If it did so the United States Government and other countries would destroy the work of the Church. It would be a repeat of the chaos of the late 19th century for the Church except much worse; it would be world-wide persecution.

So my question is can we live by the Law and express our talents fully right now, or are we still in the learning phase where we won't be able to completely live by the Law until some more conditions are met. A lot of things have to be in place for us to truly live by the Law.

Unless there is a total collapse of our secret conbination controlled governments the Church cannot and will not return to the United Order. This should be obvious, and the Church cannot seriously support institutions or movements for the reestablishment of the Constitution.

So what conditions have to happen before we can live and work together by the Law?

Who will do it and when will it be done?

It must be a grass roots movement. It must be, "of the people, by the people, and for the people." On a solid foundation, one that government cannot control. And for our sakes it must be done now.

Fortunately we have a solid foundation to build upon, we have the scriptures, the history and customs of our ancestors and the correct principles imbedded in our present institutions from the work of our ancestors. All we are missing is self-control.

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Yes we can live right now by the self-control rules of the United Order. The institutions are in place, the rules also.

We must do so now, or we get the cleansing that has been spoken about.

1. We have to have made the effort to have a personal relationship with our Heavenly Father to find out what is our "uniqueness" so we can covenant to give that to the world.

In the quote above by Bruce, mention is made that today possibly only 2% of the people can govern themselves, and live by law. The way has been presented to you here of how your ancestors have lived by the law. The question is, are you one of these 2% who can do so now? Also you mentioned a conenant to give of ourselves, our covenant is to give ourselves to Moses 1:39.

2. We then have to have enough trust in ourselves and our relationship to our God that the covenant we have made is true.

Did we not all take our temple oaths? I trust you, you trust me, we manage that trust through an ancient system of our ancestors called Law. You and I become free by these oaths and we don’t worry about trespasses. Occasionally a bishop's court or stake president’s court has to be held to deal with those few who just don’t get it. The only time this perfect system does not work is when we instead subscribe to have our lives run by Satan’s system and his courts.

3. And the hard part is then to also trust that others have done the same. People may offend us (and we may offend others) because they/we are still in the learning phase and we all must be patient enough with them (and even ourselves) to realize that we can repent through Christ and try again. Or they may offend us because they truly want power, money, etc. more than living up to a covenant with God. For those in the first category, we have to be patient and then eventually we can live by the law. For those in the second category, we need a judgment from God so we can separate ourselves from them before we can live by the law.

So is now the time to be finding out what our talents are so we can live by the law with others?

Yes!

Or is now the time to be helping God with the separation by standing up for the Constitution and other "covenants"? It's probably a little of both, but I sure have a difficult time prioritizing which I should be spending more of my time in doing.

Over all your observations are right on.
God Bless,
Darren

Darren wrote:I trust you, you trust me, we manage that trust through an ancient system of our ancestors called Law. You and I become free by these oaths and we don’t worry about trespasses. Occasionally a bishop's court or stake president’s court has to be held to deal with those few who just don’t get it. The only time this perfect system does not work is when we instead subscribe to have our lives run by Satan’s system and his courts.

This is the hard part - trust. And it may be more of a problem with myself than even with others. Do I trust my own capability of receiving revelation from Heavenly Father that what I would like to do with my talents are also His will? And of course, when you can't trust yourself it is even more difficult to trust others.

This way of thinking makes me even more grateful for an atonement that gives us second chances while we're still learning. That's why I think the ultimate trust has to be in Christ. Then when someone says remember when I told you this is what I thought I wanted to do (and we go into some sort of business arrangement based on that), then I come back later and say I didn't really know yet and now things have changed. Can we still trust each other, put our faith in Christ that He will make up the difference, and then change (and allow others to change) to get closer to what it really is that Heavenly Father wants us to do. Then throw on top of this the variability of 6 Billion people going through the same changes (some out of good intentions and some out of bad intentions), you can see why this "Living by the Law" concept is so difficult.

So if this trust involves forgiving and helping others better understand what it is that they truly should be covenanting then we can move forward together (with the hope that one day we will have the perfect understanding).

But if the trust is based on well you said this yesterday and I don't care what your excuses are I'm holding you to this, then things can fall apart easily even with good intentioned people.

Stil though it is definitely an amazing process to work through and sure makes life interesting. And the ultimate goal of truly understanding what it is that we will personally covenant to use in participating in Moses 1:39 surely makes it worth striving for.