Libertas wrote:I posted this quote on another thread already.
“Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations? Oh, no, he spoke in the present tense. No man that was then living upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour. But did he not say that there was no man throughout all generations that would not know the day or the hour? No, for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture, for the prophet says that, ‘God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his servants the prophets.’ Consequently, if it is not made known to the prophet it will not come to pass.” Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook, Words of Joseph Smith, Religious Studies Center BYU, 1980, pg. 180-181 as quoted in Richard D. Draper, S. Kent Brown and Michael D. Rhodes, The Pearl of Great Price: A Verse-by-Verse Commentary, Deseret Book, 2005, pg. 319 (spelling, capitalization and punctuation standardized).
That statement was made early in Joseph's ministry....it seems as he changed his tune with that particular aspect later on. I posted this on another thread but seems very applicable here as well -
....I want to respond to the comments about no man knowing the day nor the hour with the Prophet Joseph Smith's own words, from the Saturday afternoon conference address in April 1843, concerning the matter -
Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass;
again we find Paul 1st Thesslonians 5th Chapter expressly points out the characters who shall not know the day nor the hour when the Son of Man cometh for says he it will come upon them as theif or unawares. Who are they they are the children of darkness or night. But to the Saints he says yea are not of the night nor of darkness of that that day should come upon you unawares. John the revelator says 14 chap 7th verse that the hour of his judgements is come they are precursers or forerunners of the comeing of Christ. read Matthew 24 Chap and all the Prophets.
He says then shall they see the Sign of the domeing of the Son of Man in the clouds of Heaven. How are we to see it Ans. As the lighting up of the morning or the dawning of the morning cometh from the east and shineth unto the west--So also is the comeing of the Son of Man. The dawning of the Morning makes its appearance in the east and moves along gradualy so also will the comeing of the Son of Man be. it will be small at its first appearance and gradually becomes larger untill every eye shall see it. Shall the Saints understand it Oh yes. Paul says so. Shall the wicked understand Oh no they attribute it to a naturn cause. They will probably suppose it is two great comets comeing in contact with each other
¶ It will be small at first and will grow larger and larger untill it will be all in a blaze so that every eye shall see it. Joseph Smith the Prophet.
http://www.boap.org/LDS/Parallel/1843/6 ... 9.html#N_3_
This sermon indirectly references Amos 3:7. Also mentioned here -
The Prophet Joseph Smith believed in a rigorous adherence to the literal meaning of the biblical text. “What is the rule of interpretation?” he asked. “Just no interpretation at all.” It should be “understood precisely as it reads.” 10
An example of this was his use of Amos 3:7 to refute speculation about the date of the Second Coming. In the early 1840s, Baptist William Miller stirred considerable national interest with his prediction that the Second Coming would occur in 1843. When one of Miller’s followers claimed to have seen the “sign of the Son of Man” as predicted in Matthew 24 [Matt. 24], Joseph replied: “He has not seen the sign of the Son of Man, as foretold by Jesus; neither has any man … for the Lord hath not shown me any such sign; and as the prophet saith, so it must be—‘Surely the Lord God will do nothing but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets.’ (See Amos 3:7.) Therefore hear this, O earth: The Lord will not come to reign over the righteous, in this world, in 1843, nor until everything for the Bridegroom is ready.” 11 Of the Savior’s words that no man knows the day or the hour of the coming of the Son of Man (see Matt. 24:36), the Prophet asked: “Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations? Oh, no, He spoke in the present tense. No man that was then living upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour. But He did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No, for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture. For the prophet says that God will do nothing but what He will reveal unto His servants the prophets. Consequently, if it is not made known to the prophets, it will not come to pass.”
http://lds.org/ensign/2002/08/the-proph ... t?lang=eng
.....but the information above seems to be contradictory to other statements by Joseph, others, and scripture -
"Perhaps in an effort to escape the challenges of our times, a few voices proclaim that the second coming of the Savior is imminent," said Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin of the Quorum of the Twelve during the October 1998 general conference.
"Perhaps, but the Lord could not have been more plain when He said of His triumphal return to the earth, 'But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.' (Matthew 24:36.)
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/3 ... eturn.html
Joseph Smith Matthew 1:39
But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.
D&C 39:20-21
Go forth baptizing with water, preparing the way before my face for the time of my coming; For the time is at hand; the day or the hour no man knoweth; but it surely shall come.
D&C 49:6-7
And they have done unto the Son of Man even as they listed; and he has taken his power on the bright hand of his glory, and now reigneth in the heavens, and will reign till he descends on the earth to put all enemies under his feet, which time is nigh at hand— I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes.
Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 volumes, edited by Brigham H. Roberts, (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1957), 6:254.
I also prophesy, in the name of the Lord, that Christ will not come in forty years; and if God ever spoke by my mouth, He will not come in that length of time. Brethren, when you go home, write this down, that it may be remembered. Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come. Go and read the scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers.
.....so that about wraps that up. Of course one is left to ponder on whether the day or hour is literal....for instance can one get the month and the year correct? Or is it figurative? Or is it in code - Ezekiel 4:6...the day would mean a year....the hour would mean 15.22 days or in other words a person won't likely get within a range of half a month to a year - or the oft quoted in reference to the half hour of silence - 1:1000....then the range would be 41.67 to 1000 years.
D&C 130:14-17
I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following: Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble me no more on this matter. I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face. I believe the coming of the Son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.
