LDS Freedom Forum

I struggle to know how much to sacrifice in order to serve those who are needy around us. We aren't rich by any US standard, although quite comfortable. However, compared to many in the world, we live as well as royalty. I don't know how much to give up in order to help those in need. I don't even know where to begin really, besides the occasional donation, humanitarian aid project, or sub-for-santa. I realize we all have different missions in life and are placed where we are for a reason. I don't want to throw everything out or be ungrateful, but I do know where much is given, much is required. I am always inspired by people who give up so much to help out the destitute. The man in this short video clip is such a wonderful demonstration of that. I don't think he is even Christian but I believe he is serving the way Christ would.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_3BEwpv0dM

Sacrifice your available time, talents, blessings, and futures blessings you will receive

We are our worst enemies when we think we are not doing enough. Just be humble and look where you can improve....not where you lack

If you have any debt, my feeling is you should pay your tithes and offerings, and put any "extra" you have to debt elimination. Otherwise you are essentially "borrowing to give".

I am not making light of the plight of the poor. But if you have a home worth $150,000 that you owe $180,000 on...that guy holding the "will work for food" sign is probably in better financial shape than you are.

And like Henmasher said, you can still be generous with time, talents, etc....

chicafoom wrote:I struggle to know how much to sacrifice in order to serve those who are needy around us. We aren't rich by any US standard, although quite comfortable. However, compared to many in the world, we live as well as royalty. I don't know how much to give up in order to help those in need. I don't even know where to begin really, besides the occasional donation, humanitarian aid project, or sub-for-santa. I realize we all have different missions in life and are placed where we are for a reason. I don't want to throw everything out or be ungrateful, but I do know where much is given, much is required. I am always inspired by people who give up so much to help out the destitute. The man in this short video clip is such a wonderful demonstration of that. I don't think he is even Christian but I believe he is serving the way Christ would.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_3BEwpv0dM

The more you learn to sacrifice now, the easier it will be go handle the sacrifices coming later. Look what Christ sacrificed. His own life. We are to sacrifice our own lives also, just in a different manner. A sacrifice is not a sacrifice until it is a sacrifice! In other words, you are giving up something that hurts a lot. That decision has to be yours to make. Christ will lead you and tell you when that sacrifice is sufficient, just like he told Abel who also lost his life over a sacrifice.

Original_Intent wrote:If you have any debt, my feeling is you should pay your tithes and offerings, and put any "extra" you have to debt elimination. Otherwise you are essentially "borrowing to give".

I am not making light of the plight of the poor. But if you have a home worth $150,000 that you owe $180,000 on...that guy holding the "will work for food" sign is probably in better financial shape than you are.

And like Henmasher said, you can still be generous with time, talents, etc....

I agree with this, because the sooner you eliminate debts, the sooner you'll be free to give more. We are expected to be wise stewards of our income.

I've struggled with the same questions, but I have reached the conclusion OI has suggested. Of course, we have to make sure we aren't living beyond our means, which may mean downsizing for a lot of people.

These are some great suggestions. Thanks. My hubby and I are working on getting rid of that mortgage as fast as we can. Luckily, that is the only debt we have. However, sometimes, I just think we should sell the house and get something smaller. Not that our home is that big and if, as we hope, to have more children it will fill up quickly, but we could live on less, a lot less. Let's face it, most of the people in the US and other affluent places in the world could. I continue to struggling knowing how much of the expectation of our culture we should sacrifice in order to help others. I know it's a matter of personal revelation but I think we could go without a lot of things that our culture dictates to us we need to be happy and functional. Anyway, don't know if that really makes any sense, but I was inspired by the man on the video sacrificing his career to feed and love the destitute. What would happen if we all did something more along those lines? I think we'd be a lot closer to Zion.

chicafoom wrote:These are some great suggestions. Thanks. My hubby and I are working on getting rid of that mortgage as fast as we can. Luckily, that is the only debt we have. However, sometimes, I just think we should sell the house and get something smaller. Not that our home is that big and if, as we hope, to have more children it will fill up quickly, but we could live on less, a lot less. Let's face it, most of the people in the US and other affluent places in the world could. I continue to struggling knowing how much of the expectation of our culture we should sacrifice in order to help others. I know it's a matter of personal revelation but I think we could go without a lot of things that our culture dictates to us we need to be happy and functional. Anyway, don't know if that really makes any sense, but I was inspired by the man on the video sacrificing his career to feed and love the destitute. What would happen if we all did something more along those lines? I think we'd be a lot closer to Zion.

I watched that same video earlier this week and had the same questions myself. It brings to mind Moroni's opinon of us when he saw us in vision(not flattering):

Mormon 8:35-39
35Behold, I speak unto you as if ye were present, and yet ye are not. But behold, Jesus Christ hath shown you unto me, and I know your doing.

36And I know that ye do walk in the pride of your hearts; and there are none save a few only who do not lift themselves up in the pride of their hearts, unto the wearing of very fine apparel, unto envying, and strifes, and malice, and persecutions, and all manner of iniquities; and your churches, yea, even every one, have become polluted because of the pride of your hearts.

37For behold, ye do love amoney, and your substance, and your fine apparel, and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted.

38O ye pollutions, ye hypocrites, ye teachers, who sell yourselves for that which will canker, why have ye polluted the holy church of God? Why are ye ashamed to take upon you the name of Christ? Why do ye not think that greater is the value of an endless happiness than that misery which never dies—because of the praise of the world?

39Why do ye adorn yourselves with that which hath no life, and yet suffer the hungry, and the needy, and the naked, and the sick and the afflicted to pass by you, and notice them not?

It is hard to know how self consumed and prideful we really are when we live in the middle of this culture. I supose that is why the Savior tells us to come out of the world, so we can get a better perspective of our sins, and what is needed to truely change.

I feel very strongly that the judgements that are coming will strip us of our pride and our dependance upon the "idols" of the world. Its too bad that the Lord will have to compel us to be humble, rather than us choosing to be humble ourselves.

The Lord has made it clear that it is a sin for people to not be equal in all things. I was reading the statistics on how many homeless people there are in SLC. It is less than .1% of the population! Can you imagine how easy it would be to solve that problem if everyone was willing to give up just a bit of their "wants"? I realize that homelessness has deeper roots than just giving $ to help, but it shows how easy it could be "to have no poor among us". I think that is always the biggest roadblock to having Zion established among a people.

chicafoom wrote:These are some great suggestions. Thanks. My hubby and I are working on getting rid of that mortgage as fast as we can. Luckily, that is the only debt we have. However, sometimes, I just think we should sell the house and get something smaller. Not that our home is that big and if, as we hope, to have more children it will fill up quickly, but we could live on less, a lot less. Let's face it, most of the people in the US and other affluent places in the world could. I continue to struggling knowing how much of the expectation of our culture we should sacrifice in order to help others. I know it's a matter of personal revelation but I think we could go without a lot of things that our culture dictates to us we need to be happy and functional. Anyway, don't know if that really makes any sense, but I was inspired by the man on the video sacrificing his career to feed and love the destitute. What would happen if we all did something more along those lines? I think we'd be a lot closer to Zion.

Consider moving to a different country.

Give, but give as the savior gave; the bread and water of life. Feed the poor, but He only did that on occasion with food. But to feed their faith, nurture them with the Good Word of God is truly a Christlike service. I love what this man is doing. It is beautiful. He is giving the best he has. We must do the same. But we have the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We must share it. There will be times we must give food to the poor etc. But Christ never clothed the naked that I have read, but he did help them be clothed in the whole armor of God. Just my opinion.

Awake & Arise wrote:Consider moving to a different country.

Definitely something on the considerations list if we feel it's the right thing to do, but I know there is service to be given wherever you find yourself.

Rand wrote:Give, but give as the savior gave; the bread and water of life. Feed the poor, but He only did that on occasion with food. But to feed their faith, nurture them with the Good Word of God is truly a Christlike service. I love what this man is doing. It is beautiful. He is giving the best he has. We must do the same. But we have the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We must share it. There will be times we must give food to the poor etc. But Christ never clothed the naked that I have read, but he did help them be clothed in the whole armor of God. Just my opinion.

Really fantastic advice. That reminds me, I had a great experience a month or so ago. We live in the Tucson, AZ area so there are quite a few members there, but we are a definite minority. I was at a grocery store there, shopping with one of my children, when a nice older man starting chatting in a friendly manner to me about my son and other chit chat for a couple of minutes. He then asked me if our family liked to watch DVD's. He then offered me a pass-along card with a Finding Faith in Christ DVD offer. I told him we were already members and set with the movie so we talked about our wards for a minute. However, his actions made the rest of my day as I thought about how simple that was for him to do. I need to do more things like that.

chicafoom wrote:

Awake & Arise wrote:Consider moving to a different country.

Definitely something on the considerations list if we feel it's the right thing to do, but I know there is service to be given wherever you find yourself.

I agree. Why I suggested moving to a different country is because you mentioned how others get along in different countries with less but you yourself have never had to (or so I'm assuming). If you lived in a foreign country, particularly a poor or recently developed one, you could find out for yourself how they get along. You would have a wealth of knowledge about how to best meet others' needs and also how to get along in difficult circumstances. You would be prepared to lead when everything falls apart. Perhaps most importantly, you would be positioned to share the gospel to the people you lived among. Of course, the Lord has a specific mission for your family and you individually, so a foreign country might not be in His plan, but it's an option to consider.

I had a friend who was so financially broke that he truly lived on nothing. He never knew how he would have food on his table or to pay rent for that month. What he did I thought to be an excellent example.

He knew of a homeless man that was a good person but just down on his luck. My friend prayed about what to do to help this homeless man. This man was worse off then my friend, but my friend was barely better off. When my friend would run into this homeless man he would always give him at least 20$ or whatever amount he had in his wallet. He did not decide what he could afford to give, he gave what he had. In doing this it appeared that it would cause him to have to go without food or rent, but this never happened. (well he did skip some meals because the money in his wallet would sometimes be lunch or dinner money) But something would always come up that would replenish all the money he gave to this poor homeless man and he would actually end up having more money at the end of the month no matter how much he gave to this sweet homeless man. Do to my friends completely unselfish giving and showing of love to this man started to have faith and hope for his life he had lost because of his sitituation. He was able to regain employment and become self-sufficient. The now non-homeless man credited his huge change in life to the selfless acts of my friend. He also became interested in the LDS Church because of my friends Christ-like sacrifice.

Sometimes man's wisdom regarding fiscal responsibilities is not the Lord's plan. You are not to steal to help another but it is OK to go without to help someone else. I have seen plenty of people say they wish they had money to give but feel they are too strapped themselves to help. I found my friends example amazing and a powerful testimony to give to others even when is truly is a sacrifice for us, and not just do it when we "think" we can afford it.

I have found the same blessings in my life. When I give when I feel I have nothing to give the Lord fills in the gap. I guess it is like the Law of Tithing but it is a law of sacrifice and loving thy neighbor as thyself.

This talk gives a good perspective:
http://lds.org/ensign/1986/09/guiding-p ... e?lang=eng

President Spencer W. Kimball further taught concerning self-reliance: “The responsibility for each person’s social, emotional, spiritual, physical, or economic well-being rests first upon himself, second upon his family, and third upon the Church if he is a faithful member thereof.

There is another aspect of sound financial management, and it has to do with our budgeting and offering to the Lord a fast offering to bless those in need. We must cheerfully and gratefully apply this principle if we would perfect ourselves.

I remember as a young bishop receiving a telephone call from the hospital late one night wherein I was informed that a widow in my ward had passed away. I went to the hospital and there obtained the key to her apartment. A note had been left that this was the procedure I was to follow. As I entered her humble basement apartment, I turned on the light and went to the little table which was in the small living room. There on the table were two Alka Seltzer bottles with a note beneath them. The bottles were filled with quarters. This sweet little widow, Kathleen McKee, with no relatives surviving her, had written this note: “Bishop, here is my fast offering. I am square with the Lord.”

I think we simply need ask one another, are we square with the Lord? Remember the principle of the true fast. Is it not to deal our bread to the hungry, to bring to our own house the poor who are outcast, to clothe the naked, to hide not ourself from our own flesh? (See Isa. 58:7.) An honest fast offering, a generous fast offering, will certainly be an indication to our Heavenly Father that we know and abide this particular law.

As has been said so often, the best storehouse system that the Church could devise would be for every family to store a year’s supply of needed food, clothing, and, where possible, the other necessities of life.

In the early church, Paul wrote to Timothy, “If any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Tim. 5:8.) It is our sacred duty to care for our families, including our extended families.

Lots more in the article, but we need to take care of ourselves, our family (including extended) and the church. In that order. Only you can decide if you're "square with the Lord" but we also need to remember that if we are unwise with our giving, we may end up being a drain in the long run, rather than a blessing.

This quote works both ways - debt, and savings (or tangible investments):
“Interest never sleeps nor sickens nor dies; it never goes to the hospital; it works on Sundays and holidays; it never takes a vacation; it never visits nor travels; it takes no pleasure; it is never laid off work nor discharged from employment; it never works on reduced hours. … Once in debt, interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to entreaties, demands, or orders; and whenever you get in its way or cross its course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you.”

Think of the power of this in it's opposite - the savings you accumulate that can bless you and those around you.