LDS Freedom Forum

Non-Indian people do not understand our way of life. They impose their way of life on us. [ Why do People in the US impose their way of life on Others. Here and in other countries? Can some one please give me an answer????????????????] This is my question, Not the Elders.
We are concerned about the present and future of our Native People as well as the welfare of all people, including the mother earth and life. As traditional Indian people, we are a people of peace. Peace means to live in harmony with each other and nature. Peace also means to follow one's own spiritual understanding.

We are concerned at this time because our Indian People are not able to practice the ceremonies for protection of land, water, animals, birds, fish, and all other life. Traditional Indian People are not able to continue these ceremonies because the foreign Non-Indian people do not understand our way of life. They impose their way of life on us through their schools, institutions, education, government and language. The Indian culture is not respected or recognized by the foreign people dominating our continent.

Everything on earth needs to be put into natural balance to restore order. Non-Indian people do not understand this natural order and balance of life. Nature is in certain patterns which is why we have certain ceremonies using herbs, feathers, sacred objects and medicines to keep the land and life in balance. This has to be done so there is no drastic change in seasons or any other natural catastrophes such as earthquakes or floods.

The main difference between the Indian culture and Non-Indian way of life is that we have these songs, prayers and ceremonies for our plants, animals, water, land and life. We have respect for our Mother Earth. The Non-Indian disturbs nature by misusing the natural elements and life to increase wealth or make money for personal gain and power.

This difference creates problems. The Non-Indian problem is forced upon us through the "system". This way of life controls more and more of our people. It takes eight hours a day every day, five days a week for menial wages with no share in the profits in order to make money to pay bills. There is no time left except on weekends which is usually spent unwisely.

We would urge all of our people and other people who value life to work with the land and become independent of this alien way of life. Some of what the Non-Indian has can be used in a proper way. Take only what we need asking through prayer or ceremony and giving thanks in the same way.

As traditional elders, we would like to come in the open, to feel free in our own country, carry out our traditional ceremonies and live in our traditional governments. Instead we live under constant oppression, degradation and discrimination. We do not like having a false image of ourselves projected and depicted in the movies, history books and media. We want to be free to speak the truth and have that truth acknowledged without fear of retaliation and punishment to ourselves, our families and our people.

We would caution you that every Indian who calls himself a traditional Indian, medicine man or whatever may not be genuine. Some of our people and some who are not our people use our religion to fundraise money for themselves. There have been times when we have been misrepresented here at home and in foreign countries. We all know who each other are. Many of our people are involved in struggles and legal battles over land, water and sacred sites. We urge everyone's support in these efforts. The President's Office has stepped up their tactics to bring large corporations to our "reserved" homelands. This will speed up the misuse and taking of more of our lands, water, resources and people. They call this "economic development to assist self-sufficiency of Indian Tribes". We want this to stop.

We are living in a different time from the ancient past till now. We must all learn to live and respect each other. For us, this means to stop imposing and forcing an alien way of life upon us. The Indian world is a real world and we would like to keep on living. We don't need pollution, greed, false power, atomic bombs, nuclear plants, missiles, and a ruling system of "blind leading the blind".

he Native People of this country are looking for good Non-Indian people to understand so that we can work together for the future for all our children, to prevent wars, famine and aid in peaceful solutions to world problems.

From Vivian Olds (Northern Paiute) and the Elders of the Indian Tribes of Nevada
Note to Bob. There is no speculation in this Elders message. And no need for 3 sources of confirmation.

TWELVE PRINCIPLES OF NATIVE AMERICAN PHILOSOPHY


1. WHOLENESS. All things are interrelated. Everything in the universe
is part of a single whole. Everything is connected in some way to
everything else. It is only possible to understand something if we
understand how it is connected to everything else.

2. CHANGE. Everything is in a state of constant change. One season
falls upon the other. People are born, live, and die. All things
change. There are two kinds of change. The coming together of things
I and the coming apart of things. Both kinds of change are necessary
and are always connected to each other.

3. CHANGE OCCURS IN CYCLES OR PATTERNS. They are not random or
accidental. If we cannot see how a particular change is connected, it
usually means that our standpoint is affecting our perception.

4. THE PHYSICAL WORLD IS REAL. THE SPIRITUAL WORLD IS REAL. They are two aspects of one reality. There are separate laws which govern
each. Breaking of a spiritual principle will affect the physical
world and visa versa. A balanced life is one that honors both.


s. PEOPLE ARE PHYSICAL AND SPIRITUAL BEINGS.

6. PEOPLE CAN ACQUIRE NEW GIFTS, BUT THEY MUST STRUGGLE TO DO SO. The process of developing new personal qualities may be called "true
learning."


7. THERE ARE FOUR DIMENSIONS OF TRUE LEARNING. A person learns in a whole and balanced manner when the mental, spiritual, physical, and
emotional dimensions are involved in the process.


8. THE SPIRITUAL DIMENSION OF HUMAN DEVELOPMENT HAS FOUR RELATED CAPACITIES:

* the capacity to have and to respond to dreams, visions,
ideals, spiritual teachings, goals and theories.
* the capacity to accept these as a reflection of our unknown
or unrealized potential.
* the capacity to express these using symbols in speech, art
or mathematics.
* the capacity to use this symbolic expression towards action
directed at making the possible a reality.

9. PEOPLE MUST ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THEIR OWN POTENTIAL.
.

10. A PERSON MUST DECIDE TO DEVELOP THEIR OWN POTENTIAL. The path will always be there for those who decide to travel it.


11. ANY PERSON WHO SETS OUT ON A JOURNEY OF SELF-DEVELOPMENT WILL BE AIDED
. Guides, teachers, and protectors will assist the traveler.

12. THE ONLY SOURCE OF FAILURE IS A PERSON'S OWN FAILURE TO FOLLOW THE TEACHINGS.

http://www.angelfire.com/art/nativeherb ... sophy.html

http://www.angelfire.com/art/nativeherb/index.html

I DO NOT SEE ANYTHING IN THESE TEACHINGS THAT WOULD MERRIT BEING CONDEMED TO LIFE ON A RESERVATION, AND BEING LABELED AS UNCIVILIZED. THESE PEOPLE ARE CERTAINLY MORE CILIVILIZED THAN THE SO CALLED ELITE MASTERS WE HAVE TODAY. WHY DEBATE FUTURE FEMA CAMPS. FOR MANY AMERICANS HOME LAND SECURITY CAMPS HAVE BEEN A WAY OF LIVE FOR 2 CENTURIES.

Everyone blames the U.S. and yet they all cry for our money and help the second there is a problem....ALL people are the problem...not just the U.S. It is the wickedness of the whole earth...not just the white man.

Mush of what the Native Americans teach is pagan and not of God...it is mixed in with the eastern religions and other pagan cultures as part of the New Age.

ndjili wrote:Everyone blames the U.S. and yet they all cry for our money and help the second there is a problem....ALL people are the problem...not just the U.S. It is the wickedness of the whole earth...not just the white man.

Mush of what the Native Americans teach is pagan and not of God...it is mixed in with the eastern religions and other pagan cultures as part of the New Age.

I think the issue is that the 12 points mentioned above are good, and mostly correct. I don't think the concern is that anyone is going to "convert" to native american religion - I think it is important to focus on commonalities, not differences. As in explaining to them that the "Great Spirit" is God. You don't respond by saying "no, no you stupid pagan, get it right..."

Also, I am interested as when the statement made in the first post was made.

I have had a few interesting conversations with native americans and I have also studied a lot of native american prophecy. I certainly don't give it the weight of prophecy, but there is definitely insight and wisdom in it. My wife and I attended a family strengthening seminar in Park City many years ago and we spoke at length with another attendee their. Building strong families is a big deal with many native americans and hispanics. Since building strong families is what we have been told in the last conference is the ultimate goal and purpose of the church - it seems like there is some common ground there that should be built upon.

In response to ndji:: sorry I was too critical

The Flow of Ideas




People coming, people going, people talking, always talking- the idea of cultural transference is complex, and not easily condensed into brief Internet format. Culture is spread by people, and people love to travel, then and now. The spread of culture is not a simple one way flow; ideas have moved in one direction or in both directions, or in one direction at one time and another direction at another time, or in almost any combination that you can think up.....



Of course, cultural ideas traveled along with trade goods. One theory gaining wider acceptance is that of mesoamerican cultural connection to the American Southwest. In this model, the origin of many Southwestern myths and cultural icons occurred through cultural diffusion, primarily brought about by the Toltec Pochteca and earlier traders from Mexico and Central America, laden with burden baskets of trade goods. There are obvious similarities between Mayan and Aztec pyramid temples, and the structures of the Mississippian Culture (known as the "Mound Builders". Another comparison can be made to the little known and less complex ceremonial "Summit Paths" ascending steep hills along the Lower Colorado and Gila Rivers. Researchers find many of the symbols from rock art, textiles and pottery of the Southwest are identical to Mesoamerican symbols from murals, pottery, codices and statues.



One of the best examples of the exchange of cultural concepts is demonstrated in the symbol of the Serpent. Forget what you learned in Sunday School as a kid about the “Evil Serpent” who led Adam and Eve astray………it’s not that way in Native American culture! The ancient Serpent of the Southwest is a good guy, and is a representation of Quetzalcoatl (Kukulcan to the Maya) a pale faced, bearded hero who arrived in Mesoamerica from the East in a boat, taught the people culture, calendar and record keeping. and agriculture, and then left. He promised to return again from the East when needed. He is often depicted as a feathered and/or horned serpent. You will see his portrait all over the rocks in the Southwest, especially in Arizona, New Mexico and Utah. The long-lived legend of Quetzalcoatl was one of the factors that allowed the quick and easy overthrow of the mighty Aztec Empire by a handful of Spanish invaders. By the time that the Aztec realized that Cortez was certainly no Quetzalcoatl, the god-like hero returning as the Shining Star of the Morning, it was too late!




The hero Qutzalcoatl is also often represented by the Morning Star, while his twin brother Xolotl is represented by the Evening Star. Together, they symbolize the passage of Venus into the underworld in evening, as in death, and then the emergence, or rebirth again into the Eastern sky in the morning. This symbol is usually depicted as an outlined cross.


< >


It would be difficult to find clearer, more graphic evidence of the Mesoamerican Quetzalcoatl’s influence here in the American Southwest, than the Ancient Puebloan rock art from Arizona shown above. The left hand panel has the outlined cross, symbol of Venus and by association also Quetzalcoatl, plus two other symbols usually associated with the sacred ballcourt of the Maya, Toltec and Aztec. On the right, this dramatic panel has it all! You have the Serpent changing into Venus (being re-born), a pregnant (earthly/physical) lizard symbolizing both emergence from the prior world and fertility, and a human wearing “New Fire Ceremony” headgear. This headgear represents the Cross (Venus star symbol) of Quetzalcoatl, and appears in drawings of the New Fire Ceremony in the Codex Borbonicus.
http://www.angelfire.com/art/nativeherb/trade2.html
click to see the rock art. I once was given a book by FARMS about the BoM civilization the Land South and the land North was in central America. That book made me ill. I spent time in Peru. Which I think is the land of Nephi, Chile being the land of First Inheritance. Any way for Farms to spend so much time and money and come up with such a redicilous conclusion blew me away. What a poor excuse for a research group at BYU.

I'm sorry where was Jesus Christ in you list?

Sorry I dont understand your question. The white god in all the native cultures is obviously Jesus. is that what you mean In Peru his name is Viracocha.