Page 1 of 1

An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 29th, 2010, 12:00 pm
by pjbrownie
We know that Zion in a sense is the true version of the counterfeit offered by Satan and his organizations. However, it is very tempting to be swept into the concept of a one world government or order. When I first heard about it, my initial reaction was so what? It doesn't take much deductive logic to understand that a world order would alleviate war and poverty, ensure that people are created equal. Assuming that these administrators and enact-ors have nothing but the benefit of society in their hands, there is nothing wrong with a new world order. The problem is that we have seen over the past 100 years that we are not dealing with honest brokers. They promote world peace at the expense of freedom, creating a billionaire caste system, population reduction by hard or soft means, taking away popular sovereignty, and ensconcing corruption all in the name of world peace.

What we need to do is to sell an alternative solution, one that sells world peace based upon righteous principles. A world government is okay if it is based on a few key principles:

1. The principle of popular sovereignty: Rules and regulations need to be made at the most basic level. Economic, health, law enforcement, and morality decisions ought to be made in counties, cities, and neighborhoods whether in rural Utah or sub-Saharan Africa. Communities of like-minded can then Federalize for some basic services like defense, interstate commerce control, property protections, etc. This body can then represent by vote to a world body that has no legislative power over the sovereign, but can only model best practices and respond to atrocities through a vote.

2. The principle of a model society: Societies and governments that work well, promote personal freedom, are economically successful, and have power should refrain from extending that power out of greed or fear. Modeling themselves as an ideal society, setting themselves up as an example, will do more to change the rest of the world than all the military actions. America was a model society for the world before the Spanish-American war when it became imperialist.

3. Avoiding class conflicts: It's about popular sovereignty with the rule of law, not class equalization. Marxism or Morgan-ism should be shunned at every turn.

4. Legislatures and executives are volunteer and term-limited: Limits corruption, buy-offs, attracts the right type of citizen.

5. No standing armies: Whether American troops or UN blue helmets, a military excursion should only be used to keep the peace and not to establish outright or hidden imperialism. They should be a volunteer militia with perhaps a modest stipend. All citizens will be admonished to carry arms for their own defense and for the event of being called to a militia. They should go home and disband as soon as the injustices cease. Nations that will not comply with peaceful relations with their neighbors will be dealt with swiftly and harshly by a vote from the world community of sovereigns which will include the harshest measures to retaliate as a deterrent to future hostilities. Groups that hide within nations--it will be understood that the nation will be responsible for their actions.

6. World government: Any world-based debating group cannot enact laws that overrule the sovereign nations. The purpose of the group is to implement and model these rules to all nations and to promote them through debate and modeling. They can only vote to enact retribution on rogue nations who carry out OVERT acts of aggression on another.

7 Banking and Business: Banks will be local with no reserve. Reserve banking will be outlawed. There will be no central bank--banks will compete with each other. Countries and banks will therefor not be able to extend credit past what they have collateral to put up towards that loan. Businesses will not be allowed to conglomerate or collude. Free market principles will prohibit corporate welfare and monopolistic laws and legal wrangling. Intellectual and other copyright laws will be limited in order to promote more investment and not have businesses sitting on their past laurels.

8 Religion: An absolute freedom of religion will be present. Technocratic and theodemocratic nations will be allowed to thrive and compete as long as they don't infringe upon other nations rights. Believing and promoting moral laws in context with a higher universal power will be modeled. Believing that man has the total rational capability to enact his own morality separate from the higher universal power will be shown to be dangerous.

9 Welfare: Communities will be responsible for the welfare of their own people. Poor in communities can be aided through volunteer economic consecration, a local sales tax, or other method. Emphasis will be placed on helping the poor escape poverty themselves, and not a constant handout. City codes and other ordinances will be placed not on ostracizing poor communities, but in a distribution of these communities throughout the cities, with stewardship over them. Reductions in poverty will be easier to attain without the false scarcity implemented by banking and business monopolies.

10 Self-sufficiency: Communities and individuals will be responsible for their own energy produced at local levels, or even energy-production that is based in families (solar wind etc.) with augmentations that are managed locally. Individuals and communities should grow and raise their own crops and commodity resources (greenhouse and other technologies). Communities should not grow faster than they can sustain themselves. They maintain their own population issues. Trade is appropriate for commodities (like bananas) not available in some communities. Transportation networks can be maintained by the federalization of communities.




What do you all think? Should I modify some of it? What else would you ad?

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 29th, 2010, 4:16 pm
by durangout
The world order that is developing before our very eyes is satan's counterfeit to the True World Order that The Savior instituded as the Kingdom of God on earth. Satan has his counterfeits for all of Gods truths (i.e. false gov't, false prophets, false doctrine, false morality, false economy...) Therefore, it was foreseen by God and a part of The Plan as in part of "the opposition of all things" dichotomy.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 29th, 2010, 6:35 pm
by davedan
The problem with the Tower of Babel was not the tower. The issue was the people were one, one language, one culture, one religion, one economy, one government. Problem was it was all corrupt.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely without the priesthood of God. So God scattered the people and created all kingdoms nations tongues and peoples.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 29th, 2010, 7:09 pm
by AussieOi
davedan wrote:The problem with the Tower of Babel was not the tower. The issue was the people were one, one language, one culture, one religion, one economy, one government. Problem was it was all corrupt.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely without the priesthood of God. So God scattered the people and created all kingdoms nations tongues and peoples.
good points

all i would add is to temper that power does not corrupt if it is used properly, refer King Benjamin as the model template there

sadly, human nature is such (D&C142) that we know what happens

so i would say "The issue was the people were one, one language, one culture, one religion, one economy, one government. Problem was (they would not be able to control themselves and human nature, unrestrained, would lead to great tragedies and damage to mankind....while i would no doubt also lead to great advances along the way) (because people especially those who seek after power are by nature usually) all corrupt.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 29th, 2010, 11:09 pm
by pjbrownie
The point is that we need to offer an opposing template to people. If not multi-national globalization of power, then what? I subscribe to multi-communitarian regionalization of power (pyramid where most power resides locally with very little power at the top in order to do things communities can't do for themselves).

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 30th, 2010, 8:28 am
by Mahonri
Then what? Freedom and independence.

If true freedom is promoted, God's order will come. reversing the order is not good.

There is a proper order things must always be done in.

basic math before advanced, learning your ABC's before being able to read, getting married before having children.

Doing any of these things out of order is not good.

The "alternative", as you put it, to pre marital sex, is chastity in the bounds the Lord has set. You can't just slap another label on it and have it be good. Same applies for this idea as well

Proper principles must be understood and lived before the next step is taken.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 30th, 2010, 9:49 am
by pjbrownie
Obviously we know as Latter-day Saints that these things come through righteousness and obedience, and that they are God-driven and divine. What I was proposing was a secular theme that could appeal to the rational intellectual who view globalization as the answer. My proposal is a template of discussion for these circles. It may be futile, but I found it an interesting intellectual exercise.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 30th, 2010, 9:55 am
by Mahonri
pjbrownie wrote:Obviously we know as Latter-day Saints that these things come through righteousness and obedience, and that they are God-driven and divine. What I was proposing was a secular theme that could appeal to the rational intellectual who view globalization as the answer. My proposal is a template of discussion for these circles. It may be futile, but I found it an interesting intellectual exercise.

Take the Gospel out of it, and Satan has already won.

It is the Kingdom of God on earth, not the UN.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 30th, 2010, 10:40 am
by InfoWarrior82
Mahonri wrote:
pjbrownie wrote:Obviously we know as Latter-day Saints that these things come through righteousness and obedience, and that they are God-driven and divine. What I was proposing was a secular theme that could appeal to the rational intellectual who view globalization as the answer. My proposal is a template of discussion for these circles. It may be futile, but I found it an interesting intellectual exercise.

Take the Gospel out of it, and Satan has already won.

It is the Kingdom of God on earth, not the UN.

True, but no secular government should be compulsory with regards to religion. It has been argued that we already have a government and constitution based on Judeo-Christian values and morals.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 30th, 2010, 10:43 am
by Mahonri
Other than returning to the US Constitution, I have no desire for another secular government.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: November 30th, 2010, 10:55 am
by InfoWarrior82
Mahonri wrote:Other than returning to the US Constitution, I have no desire for another secular government.

I'm with you on that (ready and waiting for New Jerusalem) -- I'm just saying that it is what the Lord intended when he set up this great country. Separation of church and state.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 2:21 pm
by iamse7en
Was googling theodemocracy and found this thread. Interesting. Joseph loved coining his own words.. ;) Reminds me of the time I was in high school, and the teacher was talking about celestial and terrestrial bodies in a philosophy class... I raised my hand and asked, "What about telestial bodies?" The teacher said, "I have NO IDEA what you are talking about." I said, "TELESTIAL!" He says, "I have never heard that word before." LOL, it had never occurred to me that telestial was a Mormon word. Hence, as I write this, my web browser is putting a red squiggly under every "telestial" in this comment.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: March 23rd, 2012, 2:32 pm
by 7cylon7
idlers will be allowed to idle to death. Free choice must be preserved.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: April 26th, 2012, 1:28 am
by gdemetz
I believe that there is a great misunderstanding of the 13th chapter of Revelation which has led to a false belief in an appearance of a man in the last days who will be an anti Christ and will control a world government, etc. One reason for this misunderstanding is due to the fact of not recognizing the prophetic time period mentioned in the 5th verse. The 42 month period mentioned here represents the 1260 year period in which the church is "driven into the wilderness" (See Clark's Commentary and the JST of Revelation 12:6(5) which refer to the same event). The "mark of the beast" is also misunderstood as it refers to the sign of the kingdom (which the beast represents), or the sign of the cross which is the sign of that kingdom (See Mormon Doctrine reference under "Sign of the Cross"). The number of the beast refers to the DCLXVI (666) which was previously worn on the miters of the bishops of Rome.

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: April 26th, 2012, 1:54 am
by SmallFarm
gdemetz wrote:I believe that there is a great misunderstanding of the 13th chapter of Revelation which has led to a false belief in an appearance of a man in the last days who will be an anti Christ and will control a world government, etc. One reason for this misunderstanding is due to the fact of not recognizing the prophetic time period mentioned in the 5th verse. The 42 month period mentioned here represents the 1260 year period in which the church is "driven into the wilderness" (See Clark's Commentary and the JST of Revelation 12:6(5) which refer to the same event). The "mark of the beast" is also misunderstood as it refers to the sign of the kingdom (which the beast represents), or the sign of the cross which is the sign of that kingdom (See Mormon Doctrine reference under "Sign of the Cross"). The number of the beast refers to the DCLXVI (666) which was previously worn on the miters of the bishops of Rome.
What if both interpretatons are correct and the larger all ecompassing "beast" and the personified beast / anti-christ are types of one another? :-?

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: April 26th, 2012, 6:18 pm
by gdemetz
I know that a lot of people are looking for that, but I don't believe it will happen as they say. The personified "image of the beast" (which perhaps should have been translated as likeness) refers to the bishop of Rome being in the likeness of the emperors before him, and the 666 as I previously mentioned refers to the DCLXVI worn on their miters. The connection of the two "beasts" or kingdoms is shown in verses 11 and 12:

"And I beheld another beast {kingdom} coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns {representing the two great divisions of this kingdom-the Greek and Roman branches} like a lamb {representing that it was Christlike}, and he spake as a dragon {or as Satan-deceitfully}.
"And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast {kingdom} before him {Rome}..."

Re: An Alternate New World Order?

Posted: April 26th, 2012, 7:44 pm
by chase
None Dare Call it Conspiracy by Gary Allen...A goodie.