LDS Freedom Forum

COMMING TO A PLACE NEAR YOU!!!

After listening to Orrin Hatch for 3 hours , I didnt sleep good last night. So this morning started research on the NSA 'data' CENTER. FOUND THIS ARTICLE; http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/do-we- ... er-in-utah. AND THIS COMMENT AFTER THE BLOG: There have been other freak occurances happen to me this week! I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. Well, I read Connors blog today about the NSA in Salt Lake. Then I have this ritual of reading the lead stories in the Hamburg Germany newspaper online everyday. The Spiegel newspaper is reporting today about the Stasi of East Germany (Communist) before the Berlin wall came down 20 years ago. The Stasi is just like our NSA. The Stasi left over 100 kilometers of files on shelves which they were keeping on East German citizens as they spied on them and their activities. These 100 kilometers of shelves do not even include over 16,000 sacks of shredded files which they are putting back together with the help of computers. Now that the East German government is past history, people are allowed to view their own files which were kept on them by the Stasi. This was a very interesting article to read. It is just ironic that Connor would put the NSA in his blog today, the same day that Der Spiegel reported on the past Stasi of 20 years ago.

It just makes me wonder about our own government keeping the recordings of our telephone calls, emails, etc. in their huge data banks in other secret buildings around the country. I have been aware of this NSA story for a few months now, knowing way back then that this new secret NSA center was coming, but I certainly didn’t expect it to appear in our mainstream news. But it did! The reason that the NSA needs to build new facilities is that the existing ones take so much electricity to keep storing all that data that the local power systems cannot provide that much electricity to them! They have experienced brown-outs in the past, so in order to keep collecting the vast amounts of data on the US citizenry, they need to build multiple centers around the country to even get enough electricity to continue.

These secret NSA data collection centers allegedly collect every phone call and email made by citizens, from what I read. All of this is done without warrant. At least that is what I read, if you can trust what you read. Regardless, the government and NSA is NOT telling us what is being collected. The mere fact that they are not telling us what they are doing is reason enough to suspect that IF we knew, we would NOT approve.

The funding for these secret data collection sites comes from somewhere. That the funds for these things does NOT come through normal methods of things like taxation, or bonding, or even with the awareness of Congress – ought to give one pause as to who is behind all of this! It doesn’t even have the oversight of Congress for crying out loud! This, in and of itself, is reason to believe in a secret, shadow government that is really controlling the direction of our nation and the world from behind closed curtains.

If you have interest to read the article in the Hamburg newspaper about the Stasi files, you can read it at the following URL. (in English)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 08,00.html

Stasi Files Revisited
The Banalities and Betrayals of Life in East Germany

A West German dessert. A "flour box." A female driver. The East German secret police took an interest in all manner of banal details as it oppressed its citizenry. Now that Germany is celebrating 20 years since the fall of the Wall, more people than ever are taking a look into their Stasi files.

A West German pudding. That was all it took. Once the Stasi found out about it, a family breadwinner was fired from his army job and an East German household was plunged into destitution.


Even worse, the family later found out that they had been turned in by a close friend. "She was watering the plants and went through the cupboards to find a Dr. Oetker dessert," Vera Iburg, who has worked with files kept by the East German secret police for the last 20 years, told SPIEGEL ONLINE, referring to the snoop. "What was she doing? She had no business there!"

The murky world of Stasi spying is hardly a secret, particularly since the 2006 Oscar winning film "The Lives of Others." But with thousands of spies and well over 100,000 "IMs" -- unofficial collaborators -- not all accounts of Stasi spying are fit for the big screen. Indeed, Iburg says it is the personal, much more banal stories that keep her up at night. Iburg has the emotionally draining task of sitting with people as they read their files. And with Germany now celebrating two decades since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, she has had a lot more work to do than usual this year as ever increasing numbers take an interest in what the Stasi knows about them.

A Box of Flour

Iburg's West German pudding story is by no means the only example of how mundane everyday events were picked up by the Stasi and used to change the course of people's lives. Some "suspicious activities" were nothing more than simple misunderstandings: One file tells of a man subjected to close surveillance at the Leipzig convention hall because the agent monitoring him didn't understand what he meant by checking his "mail box." The official was unaware of the English term and reported it as "Mehl box" -- a box of flour.

One tragic story that came to light was that of East German parents, who in attempting to escape to the West gave their child sleeping pills. The Stasi files report that the child died as a result.

Herbert Ziehm, who now heads up the department of requests for the Birthler Authority -- which manages the Stasi files -- said that the East German spooks also took notes on details that smacked of bourgeoisie. Ziehm, an East German, told SPIEGEL ONLINE that a look into his own file revealed that "the Stasi were very intrigued as to why my wife could drive and had a car even though she was a housewife." He added: "They were also fascinated by the fact that we were teetotallers and non-smokers. While after 20 years you can still laugh at the absurdity of it all, you always have to remember that people were getting arrested for the tiniest things."

Two-Year-Long Waiting List

The brutal nature of the East German regime means that Monday's celebrations will be tinged with melancholy. Dozens died while trying to cross the barrier which divided Berlin and Germany in two while the Stasi squelched all protest in the German Democratic Republic, as communist East Germany was called. Ziehm says that, with attention focused on reunification, many from the former East are revisiting the past in a much more personal fashion. In the last year, tens of thousands of people have headed to the Birthler Authority to finally take a look at what their Stasi files contain. Interest has been so high, in fact, the waiting list is now two years long.

The files -- which occupy over 100 kilometers of shelf space (not including the 16,000 sacks of shredded documents the Birthler Authority is currently trying to reassemble with the aid of computers) -- are testament to a darker side of humanity. And Ziehm says that films like "The Lives of Others," which indicate that many were coerced into spying on friends and neighbors, don't come close to plumbing the depths that some ultimately fall to. Friends informed voluntarily on friends and spouses even tattled on each other.

"More often than not, the Stasi did not need to apply pressure at all," he says. "In fact, many often felt snubbed if their information was deemed to be of no interest." The real motivation behind these acts of betrayal was much more humdrum than one might think. "People informed for personal gain, out of loyalty to the East German regime, or simply because they wanted to feel like they had some power," Ziehm says.

'Malicious Lies'


Not all who visit the Birthler Authority come away feeling betrayed; the Stasi didn't keep information on all East Germans. Indeed, says Ziehm, up to 50 percent of the people who apply to see their files find that there isn't one. Though it means that friends and family remained loyal, many are disappointed. "People want to blame not getting a job and other problems on having been informed on when this isn't always the case," Ziehm says. Sometimes not having a file can lead people to question the role they played in East Germany.

But it's the files that actually exist which cause Iburg the most discomfort. Every day, she sees first hand how difficult it is for people to learn that someone close has spied on them. And she is shocked by the depths to which ordinary people are willing to stoop. "It's terrible, it makes you despair at the malicious lies people would tell, and at the weakness of human nature."

Indeed, she says she feels personally haunted. "The stories are always in the back of my head whether I'm lying in bed or out in social situations. I find it hard to trust people."
The days before the wall came down:
differentiating between truth and disinformation was a tricky undertaking. Nevertheless, for a long time the BND doubted that the SED leadership would give up power voluntarily. It was not until Nov. 3, at a time when hundreds of thousands of East Germans had already taken to the streets, that the BND's chief analyst for East Germany, whose code name was "Schönbeck," reported that the SED would "possibly have to relinquish its monopoly on power," which it was still "tenaciously defending." NOTE: ONCE in Power the SECRET POLICE wont give in voluntarily
The Border Guards Give In

The BND also attributed the opening of the Berlin Wall on Nov. 9 to the new SED General Secretary. In truth, however, the party leadership had planned something entirely different from the festive chaos on that night of nights. After a transition period, East Germans would be permitted to travel to the West as part of an orderly process. It was to be an act of mercy, granted from above, complete with permits issued by the police and, of course, the option of denying such permits at any time.

But in his legendary press conference on the evening of Nov. 9, politburo member Günter Schabowski conveyed the impression that East Germans could cross over to the West immediately. Thousands of East Berliners promptly gathered in front of the border crossings and loudly demanded that they be opened. Without any instructions to the contrary, the bewildered border guards finally gave in.

On Nov. 10, 1989, the BND wrote in its report to Bonn: "To reduce the flow of refugees, the SED surprisingly opened its western borders on the evening of Nov. 9, which prompted large numbers of Germans to pay a visit to the respective other part of Germany. ... This downright sensational measure can be seen as Krenz's most radical step to date, which he using in an attempt to gain the trust of the population."

None of those in charge at the BND at the time can claim today that the agency was in top form in those days surrounding Nov. 9.

When the Wall came down, Kohl and Genscher were in Warsaw on an official visit -- and completely in the dark. BND President Wieck was in Washington on official business. He heard about the opening of the Wall from the television set in his hotel room.

Wieck called Pullach immediately, where a few experts on East Germany were also gathered in front of the TV. They told Wieck: "We too were taken by surprise."

That report was true. Undoubtedly!!
WE in the US are going to find out real fast how really stupid it is to trade our FREEDOM for national INSECURITY. THank you Hatch and Bennet The wolves in Sheeps Clothing.
I think Franklin Said: those who trade freedom for security deserve neither.

dennis wrote:COMMING TO A PLACE NEAR YOU!!!

After listening to Orrin Hatch for 3 hours , I didnt sleep good last night. So this morning started research on the NSA 'data' CENTER. FOUND THIS ARTICLE; http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/do-we- ... er-in-utah. AND THIS COMMENT AFTER THE BLOG: There have been other freak occurances happen to me this week! I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. Well, I read Connors blog today about the NSA in Salt Lake. Then I have this ritual of reading the lead stories in the Hamburg Germany newspaper online everyday. The Spiegel newspaper is reporting today about the Stasi of East Germany (Communist) before the Berlin wall came down 20 years ago. The Stasi is just like our NSA. The Stasi left over 100 kilometers of files on shelves which they were keeping on East German citizens as they spied on them and their activities. These 100 kilometers of shelves do not even include over 16,000 sacks of shredded files which they are putting back together with the help of computers. Now that the East German government is past history, people are allowed to view their own files which were kept on them by the Stasi. This was a very interesting article to read. It is just ironic that Connor would put the NSA in his blog today, the same day that Der Spiegel reported on the past Stasi of 20 years ago.

It just makes me wonder about our own government keeping the recordings of our telephone calls, emails, etc. in their huge data banks in other secret buildings around the country. I have been aware of this NSA story for a few months now, knowing way back then that this new secret NSA center was coming, but I certainly didn’t expect it to appear in our mainstream news. But it did! The reason that the NSA needs to build new facilities is that the existing ones take so much electricity to keep storing all that data that the local power systems cannot provide that much electricity to them! They have experienced brown-outs in the past, so in order to keep collecting the vast amounts of data on the US citizenry, they need to build multiple centers around the country to even get enough electricity to continue.

These secret NSA data collection centers allegedly collect every phone call and email made by citizens, from what I read. All of this is done without warrant. At least that is what I read, if you can trust what you read. Regardless, the government and NSA is NOT telling us what is being collected. The mere fact that they are not telling us what they are doing is reason enough to suspect that IF we knew, we would NOT approve.

The funding for these secret data collection sites comes from somewhere. That the funds for these things does NOT come through normal methods of things like taxation, or bonding, or even with the awareness of Congress – ought to give one pause as to who is behind all of this! It doesn’t even have the oversight of Congress for crying out loud! This, in and of itself, is reason to believe in a secret, shadow government that is really controlling the direction of our nation and the world from behind closed curtains.

If you have interest to read the article in the Hamburg newspaper about the Stasi files, you can read it at the following URL. (in English)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 08,00.html

Stasi Files Revisited
The Banalities and Betrayals of Life in East Germany

A West German dessert. A "flour box." A female driver. The East German secret police took an interest in all manner of banal details as it oppressed its citizenry. Now that Germany is celebrating 20 years since the fall of the Wall, more people than ever are taking a look into their Stasi files.

A West German pudding. That was all it took. Once the Stasi found out about it, a family breadwinner was fired from his army job and an East German household was plunged into destitution.


Even worse, the family later found out that they had been turned in by a close friend. "She was watering the plants and went through the cupboards to find a Dr. Oetker dessert," Vera Iburg, who has worked with files kept by the East German secret police for the last 20 years, told SPIEGEL ONLINE, referring to the snoop. "What was she doing? She had no business there!"

The murky world of Stasi spying is hardly a secret, particularly since the 2006 Oscar winning film "The Lives of Others." But with thousands of spies and well over 100,000 "IMs" -- unofficial collaborators -- not all accounts of Stasi spying are fit for the big screen. Indeed, Iburg says it is the personal, much more banal stories that keep her up at night. Iburg has the emotionally draining task of sitting with people as they read their files. And with Germany now celebrating two decades since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, she has had a lot more work to do than usual this year as ever increasing numbers take an interest in what the Stasi knows about them.

A Box of Flour

Iburg's West German pudding story is by no means the only example of how mundane everyday events were picked up by the Stasi and used to change the course of people's lives. Some "suspicious activities" were nothing more than simple misunderstandings: One file tells of a man subjected to close surveillance at the Leipzig convention hall because the agent monitoring him didn't understand what he meant by checking his "mail box." The official was unaware of the English term and reported it as "Mehl box" -- a box of flour.

One tragic story that came to light was that of East German parents, who in attempting to escape to the West gave their child sleeping pills. The Stasi files report that the child died as a result.

Herbert Ziehm, who now heads up the department of requests for the Birthler Authority -- which manages the Stasi files -- said that the East German spooks also took notes on details that smacked of bourgeoisie. Ziehm, an East German, told SPIEGEL ONLINE that a look into his own file revealed that "the Stasi were very intrigued as to why my wife could drive and had a car even though she was a housewife." He added: "They were also fascinated by the fact that we were teetotallers and non-smokers. While after 20 years you can still laugh at the absurdity of it all, you always have to remember that people were getting arrested for the tiniest things."

Two-Year-Long Waiting List

The brutal nature of the East German regime means that Monday's celebrations will be tinged with melancholy. Dozens died while trying to cross the barrier which divided Berlin and Germany in two while the Stasi squelched all protest in the German Democratic Republic, as communist East Germany was called. Ziehm says that, with attention focused on reunification, many from the former East are revisiting the past in a much more personal fashion. In the last year, tens of thousands of people have headed to the Birthler Authority to finally take a look at what their Stasi files contain. Interest has been so high, in fact, the waiting list is now two years long.

The files -- which occupy over 100 kilometers of shelf space (not including the 16,000 sacks of shredded documents the Birthler Authority is currently trying to reassemble with the aid of computers) -- are testament to a darker side of humanity. And Ziehm says that films like "The Lives of Others," which indicate that many were coerced into spying on friends and neighbors, don't come close to plumbing the depths that some ultimately fall to. Friends informed voluntarily on friends and spouses even tattled on each other.

"More often than not, the Stasi did not need to apply pressure at all," he says. "In fact, many often felt snubbed if their information was deemed to be of no interest." The real motivation behind these acts of betrayal was much more humdrum than one might think. "People informed for personal gain, out of loyalty to the East German regime, or simply because they wanted to feel like they had some power," Ziehm says.

'Malicious Lies'


Not all who visit the Birthler Authority come away feeling betrayed; the Stasi didn't keep information on all East Germans. Indeed, says Ziehm, up to 50 percent of the people who apply to see their files find that there isn't one. Though it means that friends and family remained loyal, many are disappointed. "People want to blame not getting a job and other problems on having been informed on when this isn't always the case," Ziehm says. Sometimes not having a file can lead people to question the role they played in East Germany.

But it's the files that actually exist which cause Iburg the most discomfort. Every day, she sees first hand how difficult it is for people to learn that someone close has spied on them. And she is shocked by the depths to which ordinary people are willing to stoop. "It's terrible, it makes you despair at the malicious lies people would tell, and at the weakness of human nature."

Indeed, she says she feels personally haunted. "The stories are always in the back of my head whether I'm lying in bed or out in social situations. I find it hard to trust people."
The days before the wall came down:
differentiating between truth and disinformation was a tricky undertaking. Nevertheless, for a long time the BND doubted that the SED leadership would give up power voluntarily. It was not until Nov. 3, at a time when hundreds of thousands of East Germans had already taken to the streets, that the BND's chief analyst for East Germany, whose code name was "Schönbeck," reported that the SED would "possibly have to relinquish its monopoly on power," which it was still "tenaciously defending." NOTE: ONCE in Power the SECRET POLICE wont give in voluntarily
The Border Guards Give In

The BND also attributed the opening of the Berlin Wall on Nov. 9 to the new SED General Secretary. In truth, however, the party leadership had planned something entirely different from the festive chaos on that night of nights. After a transition period, East Germans would be permitted to travel to the West as part of an orderly process. It was to be an act of mercy, granted from above, complete with permits issued by the police and, of course, the option of denying such permits at any time.

But in his legendary press conference on the evening of Nov. 9, politburo member Günter Schabowski conveyed the impression that East Germans could cross over to the West immediately. Thousands of East Berliners promptly gathered in front of the border crossings and loudly demanded that they be opened. Without any instructions to the contrary, the bewildered border guards finally gave in.

On Nov. 10, 1989, the BND wrote in its report to Bonn: "To reduce the flow of refugees, the SED surprisingly opened its western borders on the evening of Nov. 9, which prompted large numbers of Germans to pay a visit to the respective other part of Germany. ... This downright sensational measure can be seen as Krenz's most radical step to date, which he using in an attempt to gain the trust of the population."

None of those in charge at the BND at the time can claim today that the agency was in top form in those days surrounding Nov. 9.

When the Wall came down, Kohl and Genscher were in Warsaw on an official visit -- and completely in the dark. BND President Wieck was in Washington on official business. He heard about the opening of the Wall from the television set in his hotel room.

Wieck called Pullach immediately, where a few experts on East Germany were also gathered in front of the TV. They told Wieck: "We too were taken by surprise."

That report was true. Undoubtedly!!
WE in the US are going to find out real fast how really stupid it is to trade our FREEDOM for national INSECURITY. THank you Hatch and Bennet The wolves in Sheeps Clothing.
I think Franklin Said: those who trade freedom for security deserve neither.

IBM played a critical role in assisting with that....

"The S.S. organisation had been constituted, by Himmler, according to the principles of the Jesuits' Order. Their regulations and the Spiritual Exercises prescribed by Ignatius of Loyola were the model Himmler tried to copy exactly... The "Reichsfuhrer SS"—Himmler's title as supreme chief of the SS—was to be the equivalent of the Jesuits' "General" and the whole structure of the direction was a close imitation of the Catholic Church's hierarchical order. A mediaeval castle, near Paderborn in Westphalia, and called "Webelsbourg", was restored; it became what could be called a SS monastery.
Everything regarding Nazism came from Rome initially. Like the 'Nazi Salute' is really the 'Roman Salute'(More Pictures of 'Roman Salute') Hitler said his Nazi order was Fashioned after the Jesuit order and had transferred much of the Jesuit order into his own party.
Those people close to Hitler have told the world about his satanic religion. Still, the world usually refuses to believe them!

The murderous fruits of Hitler’s regime should make us see a sickness beyond the human realm!

Humanity must learn the reality of Satan—either by word or by experience through suffering!

Hitler was prepared for his job. Satan is the great counterfeiter. As God uses one man to lead His Church, so does Satan. The devil has a “very elect” also. Mr. Waite comments on a telling statement of Hitler’s: “‘Above all, I have learned from the Jesuit order.’ Certainly the oath of direct obedience to the führer was strikingly reminiscent of the special oath that Jesuits swear to the pope. Moreover, Hitler spoke of his elite ss, who wore the sacred symbol and dressed in black, as his Society of Jesus. He also ordered ss officers to study the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola for training in the rigid discipline of the faith” (ibid., p. 32).

Hitler came to believe that God had replaced the Jews with the Germans and the Holy Roman Empire. He believed the Germans were God’s chosen people. This is why the crown jewels of that empire meant so much to him.

In 1938, at a rally in Nuremberg, “Hitler had brought from Vienna, after a hundred and forty years, the insignia of the First Reich—the Imperial Crown, the Orb of Empire, the Scepter and the Imperial Sword. At the presentation of these symbols of imperialism he solemnly vowed that they would remain in Nuremberg forever” The crown jewels were to be a key part of the Third Reich, as they were
of the First Reich!

When and where did Hitler become so fiercely loyal to the crown jewels? Logic tells us it had to happen while he was growing up in Vienna. Much of that information has remained underground. The god of this world wants that truth to remain hidden until he is once again ruling this great beast power (Revelation 13, 17).

Hitler gave his most “inspired” speeches at the frenzied, torch-lit meetings in Nuremberg. That is where the crown jewels were. And where you find the crown jewels, Satan—the king—is near.

Again, who is the real king of the Holy Roman Empire? “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born” (Revelation 12:3-4). Satan is the ruler of those seven heads! He wore the six crowns of the Holy Roman Empire, and he is about to wear the seventh. He is the real king of the beast (see Revelation 13:4).

He has the kind of power that led one third of the angels to rebel (Revelation 12:4). How much more he can do to puny men!

When are we going to wake up?

Understand this significant truth! Hitler’s foundational lesson in Vienna was about the Holy Roman Empire! If we can’t learn that lesson by hearing God’s message, then we must learn it by becoming a victim.

In a speech in Munich on March 14, 1936, Hitler said, “I go the way that
Providence dictates for me with all the assurance of a sleepwalker” (Waite, op. cit.).

This is a very disturbing statement—if you understand Satan and his powers. Hitler had no real control of his own mind! He totally depended on his god for guidance!

This is very common in history. Satan rules this world through people. As Hitler totally yielded to Satan, he was given great power.

When will we come to know the god of this world? Must we all become victims before we heed the warning?

Today the Germans and the European Union are once again focusing the people’s minds on the Holy Roman Empire. European Parliamentarian Otto von Hapsburg said, “The [European] Community is living largely by the heritage of the Holy Roman Empire, though the great majority of the people who live by it don’t know by what heritage they live.”

Notice, “the great majority” don’t know they are even now living by the heritage of the Holy Roman Empire! That is because it has been “underground”—just as God prophesied. But that is changing fast as the
empire grows in power.

The people need a more specific focus to stir their imaginations. And they are getting just that. Mr. Habsburg, a descendant of the Habsburg Dynasty which ruled the Holy Roman Empire for 400 years, talked about a crown in a museum in Vienna, Austria, which symbolizes a great deal to the Germans. He said, “We possess a European symbol which belongs to all nations of Europe equally; this is the crown of the Holy Roman Empire, which embodies the tradition of Charlemagne.” Charlemagne was crowned emperor of the Holy Roman Empire in 800 a.d.—the First Reich. Can we see where Satan is taking them? It’s not necessarily a matter of where they want to go, it’s where Satan is leading them!

Mr. Habsburg failed to mention that the Holy Roman Empire also embodied the tradition of Mussolini and Adolf Hitler—leader of the Third Reich.

Europe is once again becoming mesmerized by the crown of Charlemagne—just as Hitler was.

Pope John Paul ii said he wanted “to save Europe and the world from the final catastrophe”—the nuclear annihilation of every human being. But Satan is actually going to use the Roman Empire to plunge the world into a nuclear holocaust!

That empire has always been used as a tool of great destruction. The end-time resurrection will be the most destructive ever—by far!

Only biblical Israel has a history with God. We are without excuse! We are about to be punished for our rebellious attitude—by our “lovers.”

Hitler provided only a small preview of the coming political beast that will initiate a nuclear holocaust.

That power will cause the u.s. and Britain to suffer more than any people ever have on this Earth! What an incredible price we must pay for our ignorance and rebellion!

Konrad Heiden wrote an introduction for an English translation of Mein Kampf. In it he made these statements: “Mein Kampf made Hitler rich. It became a best-seller second only to the Bible. The book may well be called a kind of satanic Bible …. The principle that men are not equal is the theoretical purpose of Mein Kampf ….

“That such a man could go so far toward realizing his ambitions, and—above all—could find millions of willing tools and helpers; that is a
phenomenon the world will ponder for centuries to come.”

Actually, people will not ponder this for centuries. Soon they are going to be taught the truth and understand the Holy Roman Empire. The satanic bibles and diabolical empires are about to be destroyed forever. Unfortunately, that will happen after many millions of people are killed by the seventh head.

The Spirit of Charlemagne

What is happening in the European superstate is a mystery to most of the world. But that mystery is beginning to be removed. Bernard Connolly wrote a bombshell book in 1995 entitled The Rotten Heart of Europe. For years he served at the heart of the Exchange Rate Mechanism for the European Union (EU). He headed the commission unit responsible for monitoring and servicing the system. He labels the European superstate as rotten. Why so?

“It is the battle for control of the European superstate,” Mr. Connolly wrote, “in which French technocrats confront German federalists, both sides claiming to fight under the banner of Charlemagne. The ‘collateral damage’ from this battle lies mainly in the future, but it could be ghastly” (p. xvi).

Who is going to get control of this great superstate? The battle can be narrowed down to two nations—France and Germany. Do knowledgeable people really doubt who will win this battle? The nation that controls the money will reign supreme.

“Across the Rhine, successive German governments have, in their pursuit of a ‘European’ cloak for German ambitions, been prepared to accept an apparent cession of national monetary authority—as long as the new European monetary authority looks, sounds, smells and acts exactly as the German monetary authority now does” (ibid., p. 4).

The eu system has already been called a Trojan horse. Mr. Connolly says it is a “cloak for German ambitions.”

Just what are those ambitions?

“The Bundesbank began to use this opportunity to the full, overturning its obligation to ‘support the general economic policy of the government.’ In 1966, it deliberately engineered a recession that dethroned the chancellor, Ludwig Erhard, who, as finance minister, had overridden Bundesbank objections to [Deutschmark] revaluation in 1961.
The Bundesbank president of the time, Karl Blessing, commented with evident satisfaction that ‘we had to use brute force to put things in order‘—a formula not very different from those used by leaders of the military in Third World countries who summarily depose an uppity civilian leader before returning to barracks. It did not go unnoticed that the man who replaced Erhard, Georg Kiesinger, was, like many prominent figures in the Bundesbank at that time, a former Nazi Party member, however much or little significance that fact may have” (ibid., p. 9).

Here he discusses just one German institution. In 1966 the Bundesbank had “many prominent figures” who were Nazis! Does this give us some idea of where the European superstate is headed? Are we afraid to face this book’s truth of what is happening in Germany and Europe? Do we fear to face Bible prophecy?

The Nazis know how “to use brute force to put things in order”! And not
just in the finance system.

We are all aware of Hitler’s Third Reich. Mr. Connolly labels the empire of Charlemagne as the First Reich.

Most of the eu leaders are working to “recreate the empire of Charlemagne. It was no coincidence that the Belgian government housed the offices and meeting rooms of the eu Council of Ministers in the Charlemagne building in Brussels.

“It was no coincidence, either, that Giscard and Schmidt agreed to accept the Belgian compromise proposal at a bilateral summit in September 1978 at Aachen, principal seat and burial place of Charlemagne. The symbolism was heavily underlined in both France and Germany; the two leaders paid a special visit to the throne of Charlemagne and a special service was held in the cathedral; at the end of the summit, Giscard remarked that: ‘Perhaps when we discussed monetary problems, the spirit of Charlemagne brooded over us’” (ibid., p. 17).

The spirit of Charlemagne has returned. This past king who ruled the First Reich had to wade through a “sea of blood” to achieve his goal of ruling Europe.

The big question remains unanswered. “In the new empire of Charlemagne, who would play Charlemagne? Exactly the same question was implicit, and left unanswered, at Maastricht” (ibid.).

Soon the world will know who the modern Charlemagne is to be. You can be sure he will have Germany’s stamp of approval. His actions will shock the world far more than the original Charlemagne. He will lead the world into the greatest “sea of blood” that humanity has ever seen or even dreamed about! Whether we realize it or not, the Fourth Reich has arrived.
Very soon now, ten nations, or groups of nations, in Europe will band together in a union influenced by a great church. Everything about the union will seem right. The religion, the prosperity, the military might. But the final fruits of this union will be horrifying. History bears this out. Conspiracy, betrayal, bloodshed, intolerance, execution. These words best describe the “Holy” Roman Empire of the Middle Ages.

Approximately 40 million people were butchered during the so-called Holy Inquisition—the papacy’s nightmarish vaccine for the “heresy” virus! The Roman and Spanish inquisitions virtually eliminated Protestantism in Italy and Spain! The world has probably never seen a more vile period than those dark and miserable years of the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries.

The historical fruits of this union between a powerful political beast and a great false church have not been holy—rather unholy. And when those rotten fruits are revealed one last time, the world will be shocked. How could something which seems so right—so religious—be so evil? That answer is found written upon thousands of pages of history. More importantly,


God prophesied it long ago in the pages of the book almost no one reads and studies—the Holy Bible. Perhaps it is time we grab that book from the shelf, blow off the dust and crack it open. You’ll be shocked at how accurately God predicts the future.

http://www.spirituallysmart.com/nazi.html

Now about the origins of the CIA spooks. All with close ties to Nazis and SMOM. The Sovereign Military Order of Malta, also known as the original Sovereign Military Order of St. John of Jerusalem, is a closed fraternity of the Roman Catholic Church.

Its initiated members must be Catholic and have served in the military. They participate in secret ceremonies and feudal ritual dress, and embrace a strong class/caste mentality as part of their initiation into Rosicrucian dogma.

The upper grades are fastidiously aristocratic and must be able to display a family coat-of-arms dating back at least 300 years in unbroken succession from father to son.

The Sovereign Grand Master of the order is recognized as a head of state, and his authority is ensured by his secular ranking as a Prince, and his ecclesiastical ranking as a Cardinal. Under international law this organization has independent Sovereign status, which assures nationalistic loyalty from its members, above and beyond allegiance to their own country - they also have Permanent Observer status at the United Nations.

The current Grand Master, Andrew Willoughby Bertie, is descended from Mary Stuart (Mary Queen of Scots) which places him firmly in the Sion/Grail historical scenario.

The order and its members have been proven to be linked with the "Rat Run", the post-WWII escape route used by high-ranking Nazis and death camp scientists from defeated Germany to the Americas. Sovereign Knight of Malta passports were issued with false identities that allowed escape from prosecution for war crimes.

Perversely, after the war the order’s highest decoration, the ’Grand Cross of Merit’, was awarded to Nazi General Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler’s Eastern Front intelligence chief, who was highly complicit in the atrocities carried out by the Nazis in Russia and Eastern Europe - mainly the unprecedented slaughter of Jews and civilian Slavs.

The brotherhood’s Catholic and aristocratic roots made the modern knights fervently anti-communist. The order has been largely responsible for the construction of the CIA, and many of its global covert operations.

The founding fathers of the CIA William "Wild Bill" Donovan and Allen Dulles were knights, as were many other CIA hierarchy including Ronald Reagan’s director William Casey and JFK’s director John McCone. According to "Watergate" journalist Carl Bernstein, Casey gave Pope John Paul II unprecedented access to CIA intelligence including spy satellites and agents.

In fact, one could blame the start of the Cold War upon "Wild Bill" Donovan personally. At the end of the First World War Donovan led a secret mission to Siberia to observe the Russian Revolution. Due to his reconnaissance an American unit was sent to fight the Russian Bolsheviks who were broadly considered Allies, as they were still fighting the Germans alongside the British and the French in the trenches of Europe.

The American troops could not understand why they were being ordered to burn the villages and kill "these poor and hungry peasants, who’ve been treated so terribly by their rulers", as one "doughboy" wrote to his wife. It is historically un-American to side with the aristocratic powers of Europe against the common man.

Donovan’s motives for fighting the Bolsheviks could only have been due to his Vatican/Knights of Malta allegiances, as at this time the Russian Revolution was no threat to the American Republic. As a consequence in July 1944 Pope Pius XII awarded Donovan the ’Grand Cross of the Order of St. Sylvester’, the oldest and most prestigious of papal knighthoods, and the highest Catholic award ever received by an American.

Less than one hundred men have received this award throughout history.





The Knights of Malta’s key spheres of control are Africa and Latin America, and include many dictators such as mass murderer General Pinochet in their ranks.

Membership in Latin America includes Masonic lodge "P2" fascists and many surviving Nazi players, who are directly responsible for the formation of the modern neo-Nazi movement. Knight and Nazi escapee Otto "Scarface" Skorzeny, who led a commando raid on the Cathar region of France in search of occult artifacts including the Holy Grail, played a major role in the Vatican’s "Rat Run".

He was a close friend of Argentinian president and knight Juan Peron, who recent CIA documents prove was also involved in the laundering of Nazi gold through the Vatican Bank. Conveniently for Nazi members who did not escape Europe, William Donovan served as chief aide to the American prosecutor at the post-war Nuremberg trials, after handing over the reigns of the OSS/CIA to fellow knight Allen Dulles.

As Roman Catholic author Penny Lernoux reveals in her "People of God":
"After the war, the Vatican, the OSS, the SS, and various branches of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta joined to do battle against the common Soviet enemy - and to help Nazi war criminals escape... Baron Luigi Parrilli, an Italian aristocrat and Knight of Malta/papal chamberlain, took part in negotiations between SS leaders and the CIA’s Allen Dulles."

Prior to working for the OSS (he headed the OSS station in Switzerland during the war) Allen Dulles and his law partner John Foster had served as business managers and lawyers to John D. Rockefeller’s Standard Oil.

They personally brokered the partnership between Standard Oil and I.G. Farbenchemical corporation. I.G.Farben not only produced gasoline for the Nazi war machine, it manufactured "Zyklon B", used slave labor before and during the war (including their huge petro-chemical factory adjacent to Auschwitz death camp), owned Bayer Pharmaceuticals which according to a current lawsuit was directly involved in Dr. Josef Mengele’s horrific Auschwitz experiments, and was spared from Allied bombings due to its Rockefeller interests.

Leading war-time journalist George Seldes attempted to reveal this "unholy alliance" through his newspaper articles, but was rarely published at the time, and efforts were made to kill him. Joseph Heller’s satirical novel "Catch 22" made light of this insanity with his "we agreed to bomb our own bases in return for the Nazis buying our chocolate covered cotton".

As the Cold War intensified, former Vatican agent and knight Joseph H. Retinger, acting on behalf of the Vatican and the Priory of Sion, effectively forged ties with the European Council of Princes (the respectable name for the Dragon Sovereignty), the CIA, and Britain’s MI6 to create the New World Order think-tank "The Bilderberg Group", of which Henry Kissinger is a permanent member.

It’s first chairman was Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, who held that position for the next 22 years, until a financial scandal forced him to resign. His daughter, Shell Oil co-owner Queen Beatrix regularly attends meetings, as do ample other European aristocratic players. The undemocratic "Bilderberg Group" continues to play a major part in international affairs, and remains closed to public scrutiny and participation.

Documents show that New York’s Cardinal Francis Spellman was directly involved in the 1954 right-wing military coup of Guatemala, which led to the murder of thousands, and of which the CIA has acknowledged complicity.

He has also been linked to neo-Nazi group "P2" and the Mafia by his long involvement with "P2" member Archbishop Paul Marcinkus of Chicago, former head of the Vatican Bank, who was under serious suspicion by Italian authorities for the untimely death of Pope John Paul I.

Cardinal Spellman was not only an old friend of CIA creator "Wild Bill" Donovan (who previously had a law firm in New York) but was the actual head of the Knights of Malta in America throughout the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s, and was responsible for vast sums of money raised from its members, who have to pay thousands annually to remain in the order.

The Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM) is directly allied with international Freemasonry, from where they recruit their new elite brethren. Hence, the Knights of Malta and the Knights Templar are the Rosicrucian upper-degrees of Freemasonry.

According to "Knights of Darkness" author Francois Hervet:
"Freemasonry generally purports to be hostile to Catholicism... nevertheless in December of 1969 an exclusive meeting was held in the Rome office of Count Umberto Ortolani, the ambassador of the Knights of Malta to Uruguay, who has been called ’the brains’ behind the "P2" Masonic lodge. In addition to Ortolani, the meeting included only Licio Gelli, Roberto Calvi, and Michele Sindona",

...all of whom have been implicated in the death of Pope John Paul I and massive bank fraud.

Ironically, in recent years a belief in the Catholic faith has not been an essential prerequisite for potential members who have the right connections.

Non-aristocratic parties can now be initiated by the "Magistral Grace" of the Grand Master, although not in Britain, Germany and other European countries with a strong tradition of nobility. However, this has allowed many Americans to join, and an "Order of Merit" is bestowed upon those who have outstandingly served the Knights or their works. Past Presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush are such honorary initiates, and Reagan was the toast of an extravagant dinner held by the Order in 1989.

With more than 11,000 knights worldwide, the Grand Master and Sovereign Council remain based in Rome. Their goal of political Feudalism is clearly seen in the actions of Prince Hans Adam II, the Habsburg-supported ruling monarch of Liechtenstein, and a prominent Knight of Malta and member of the Vatican’s Opus Dei, who in October 1999 was reprimanded by the European Court of Human Rights for claiming he had final constitutional authority over his country’s Supreme Court.

While recent successful attempts at maneuvering Europe towards accepting a European President have been led by Knight of Malta Gistard d’Estaing, and backed by Britain, France, Germany, Italy & Spain.

The Protestant equivalent of the Catholic Knights of Malta, also known as the Order of St. John of Jerusalem, gained greater credibility when the head of the British Empire HM Queen Victoria became their Sovereign Head in 1888. This Order of St. John, whose current Sovereign Head is HM Queen Elizabeth II, similarly use the Cross of Malta insignia as their emblem.

While they too claim that charity and protecting the poor are their main cause, this has been used as a tool of Western Imperialism for the last 1000 years, and began with the first Crusades to occupy Jerusalem.

These "charitable concerns" are unlikely to take precedence over their secret historical agenda - the fulfillment of the prophecies of St. John the Divine, whose Revelation acts as a political template for these historically-intoxicated and reactionary-minded organizations.

It is additionally disturbing that the Protestant Order of St. John was recently granted non-Governmental membership of the United Nations.





Like its Catholic counterpart, this UN position gives the Protestant Order greater access to UN decision-making and vulnerable developing countries. Undoubtedly, the interests of the Vatican, the British Crown, and its Rosicrucian fraternity, will take precedence over any genuine aid offered to the world’s poorest and needy.

The unusually shaped Cross of Malta was the original emblem of the controversial Knights Templar, and was adopted as the official insignia of the Knights of Malta, when the Knights Templar were forced to submit to the authority of the Vatican.

Occult initiates will discover that just like the inverted pentagram or five-pointed star, the Cross of Malta is similarly a cryptogram for the Goat of Mendes, the androgenous Templar idol Baphomet, representing the goat’s beard and horns.

This is the symbol of ruling matter and spirit by the Will, and the controlled magickal direction of sexual energies.

Past Grand Masters of the Knights of Malta, including Manuel de Fonseca, are known to have been initiates of the Templar tradition, and according to the Dragon Order’s current Sovereign Grand Master Prince Nicholas de Vere von Drakenberg, who is a direct descendant of the originator of the Knights Templar Godfroi de Vere de Bouillon, the Templars were,
"a Satanic order, whose rituals included infanticide, sodomy and witchcraft".

http://letsrollforums.com/sovereign-mil ... 6c72e060d8&
The new NSA CIA spy center in Utah brought to YOU courtesy of your elected officials: Most notably ORRIN HATCH. A VERY PROUD ADVOCATE OF the US SPY INDUSTRY. AND QUITE POSSIBLY ONE OF ITS PRINCIPAL spooks HAVING SERVED ON THE intelligence OVERSIGHT COMITTEE LONGER THAN ANY ONE ELSE. AND IN HIS OWN WORDS: I CANT TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO IN THE BUILDING. BUT THE VOTERS OF UTAH HAVE BEEN REPRESENTED no deceived BY HIM FOR 34 years. Myself included.

I am appreciative that the U.S. gov is spending so much time, money and labor to create this wonderful information database. It will come in handy for genealogy one of these days.

From the data on the Stasi Files, it doesnt look to me like it will be of much value to future genealogy research. Unless one is researching family traitors. For Hatch to say" I cant tell you" implies he knows what information is collected . and what it is used for. In my mind, it wont be used for temple work research. However it will be proof enough to include him to swing from the lamp pole next to his dear friend Busch.
Accounts of the Ohio Historical Society differ from these reminiscent, Bush-family explanations. More specifically, “Samuel Prescott Bush had served as a director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland...” and was “a Democrat,” [52] two facts that belie the Republican family portrait and portend his and GHSI/PSB’s involvement with the Nazis, before and during World War II. Researchers attempting to investigate the activities of SPB in the National Archives were told that his records were “burned” to save space. Despite the loss of National Archives records of SPB, there remains sufficient proof that the whole family, on both paternal and maternal sides, was not only sympathetic to the Nazi cause, but were traitors. They are clearly not Americans—they are Nazi infiltrators.

GHSII/GHWB (again) Well before the end of World War II, Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr (defense intelligence) decided to make plans to regroup. It had been determined that Germany was to “lose” the war and the organization was forced to move “underground.” Their long-range plans, described in the “Madrid Circular,” a document discovered after the war, were to covertly infiltrate the United States and eventually take over the country, thus establishing a “1000-year Reich”--without firing a shot.

The Abwehr has since become the “Deutsche Verteidigungs Dienst(German Defense Agency [DVD])." The agency's motto is: “Für uns, ist der Krieg niemals vorbei (For us, the war is never over)."

Is George Bush a criminal? Yes!, George W. Bush is a Criminal, or at least he is the most willing puppet of a Criminal enterprise. The entire family is a criminal network with their hands in drug smuggling as well as other illegal practices for many years,... not to mention their recent ongoing War Crimes contrary to the Geneva Convention, as well as their crimes against the American Constitution and bill of rights. Also, The Grandfather of George W. Bush supported Hitler during world war II.

George Bush Sr. was once quoted as saying: "If the American people knew the Damage we have done to their Country, they would hang us from the nearest lamp post.

After being asked if it was Constitutional to declare war without approval from Congress, George W. Bush was quoted as saying: "Don't throw the Constitution in my face, it is just a God Damned piece of paper".

Although many Crooked politicians, Both Democrat and Republican, have robbed and pillaged the coffers of the United States in the past, the Bush family Cartel has done far more damage to the nation of America, and has drained more money from the American people then any other Administration in History.

And where did all those ill gotten gains go?,... you guessed it, In to their own pockets and in to the hands of all their business Associates and parters in crime.

Democrat? Republican? it does not really matter what they call themselves, all Criminals are cut from the same cloth, and are plainly two sides of the same coin. There is no great titanic battle between them, and there is No Dichotomy dividing the two Parties,... all a perpetrated hoax and Elections are decided way in advance by Corporate interests. As the Russian leader Stalin who was responsible for starving his own people with food shortages once said:

"It is Not the Votes that Count, it is he who counts the Votes"

The Crimes and mis-deeds of both American political parties can only be measured in small degrees of difference,... However, the Bush Family Regime is by far the worst atrocity because their actions exemplify so perfectly the words of Benito Mussolini just before World War II:

"Fascism should more properly be called Corporatism because it is the merger of State(Government) and Corporate power."

DOUBLE-MINDED CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE SERVES DVD’S AGENDA
The CIA’s fraudulent finance operations have been systematically destroying the global financial economy in accordance with the bribery-oriented blueprint developed by George Bush Sr. and the corrupt Dr Alan Greenspan for Deutsche Verteidigungs Dienst (DVD), Dachau, the heirs of the Nazi Abwehr originally directed from Oklahoma City by the late Admiral Canaris, who operated under the assumed name of Samuel Randall Pittman until he fell ill in 1974, when his place was occupied on a temporary basis by the triple or quadruple agent Dr Henry Kissinger, who has never managed to discard his hideously guttural German accent, which no American ever seems to have questioned!

Kissinger persuaded President Gerald Ford (a.k.a. the pornographer Leslie Lynch King Jr.) to fire William Colby (later ‘suicided’ during a ‘canoe trip’ on the Potomac) and to replace him as DCI with George Henry Walker Bush Sr. (Scherff), a long-time Abwehr/DVD asset and CIA agent implicated in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, in a manoeuvre whereby the DVD came to control the Central Intelligence Agency totally (rather than partially through the notorious earlier postwar penetrations).
the Nazi repression and intelligence chief in the Soviet Union, General Reinhard Gehlen, not only managed to persuade a willing US political and intelligence class that Mr Stalin was preparing to invade Western Europe (whereas in reality Josef Djiugashivili-Kochba had only one and a half mechanised divisions, the rest being either decimated or still horse-drawn, while his repression cadres were bogged down with imposing their control over the newly-annexed satellites), but also over time procured the mass penetration of the US intelligence community and other US structures with ‘former’ Nazi operatives and scientists, finally backing the reconstituted European elements of his former networks into the Germany-based US intelligence structures themselves .
Does anyone know of a scandal A Bush wasnt involved in?

A book I am presently reading, called Stasiland

http://www.amazon.com/Stasiland-True-St ... roduct_top

Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
"Its job was to know everything about everyone, using any means it chose. It knew who your visitors were, it knew whom you telephoned, and it knew if your wife slept around." This was the fearsome Stasi, the Ministry for State Security of the late and unlamented German Democratic Republic. Funder, an Australian writer, international lawyer and TV and radio producer, visiting Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall, finds herself captivated by stories of people who resisted the Stasi-moving stories that she collects in her first book, which was shortlisted for two literary awards in Australia. For instance, Miriam Weber, a slight woman with a "surprisingly big nicotine-stained voice," was placed in solitary confinement at the age of 16 for printing and distributing protest leaflets; she was caught again during a dramatic nighttime attempt to go over the Wall. Filtered through Funder's own keen perspective, these dramatic tales highlight the courage that ordinary people can display in torturous circumstances.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.


From Booklist
During its 40-year history, the German Democratic Republic--East Germany--was, with Soviet assistance, the perfect police state. The organ of surveillance within the GDR (as well as foreign intelligence activities) was the Stasi, which, better than any other modern secret police, had organized a large army of citizen informers. Australian writer Funder thoroughly documents that culture of domestic spying and its effects on a cross-section of East German society. To call the stories that she relates as Orwellian is rather an understatement; the fact that they are true alone goes beyond Orwell: the mysterious death of a husband while in detention, the sudden "nonexistence" of a rock star, a mother's separation from her critically ill infant. What the reader learns from these stories is that evil swings like a pendulum, from the banal to the surreal, but no matter where it is in the spectrum, it always leaves pain behind. Frank Caso
Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved




5.0 out of 5 stars Sure we all know the facts, but..., December 15, 2007
By Larry R (Centerport, NY USA) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Stasiland: True Stories from Behind the Berlin Wall (Paperback)
If you're more than about 30 years old, you surely remember the existence of the 'Iron Curtain', of life under totalitarian communist regimes like the Deutsche Democratic "Republic". Even if you're younger, you've doubtlessly learned about it in school. Yet despite all this being general knowledge, the deeply personal and human side of the experience seems to be a story largely untold. Anna Funder does a remarkable job of leaving the reader with the feel of what it must have been like to have actually lived on the wrong side of the Berlin wall. Various distinct vignettes describe the experience of individuals; ordinary people trying to lead ordinary lives, under a crushing dictatorship and the omnipresent Stazi police.

I think that reading this book provides a far better understanding of what communism was like and why we must fight it than any amount of textbook education. Its tough (impossible) to read this book and not reel in shock and anger at the incalculable human cost of the so-called "communist experiment".



======================
10 of 10 people found the following review helpful:
4.0 out of 5 stars A marvel, a must-read on totalitarianism, June 23, 2004
By Hugh Claffey (Co. Kildare Ireland) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)

This review is from: Stasiland: True Stories from Behind the Berlin Wall (Paperback)
Anna Funder is an Australian who, somewhat aimlessly, finds herself in Berlin in the 1990s. Working in the media she takes a professional interest in gathering stories about East German and its all-pervasive security apparatus - The Stasi. She visits museums filled with Stasi memorabilia, seeks interviews with former agents and victims. The book is well written and evocative, it paints a realistic picture of everyday cruelty of the former regime - a wife put to her wits end trying to bury her husband who died in custody, families pressured to spy on each other and on friends - Funder quotes statistics which reveal that there was one Stasi officer for every 63 East Germans; Hitler's Gestapo had one agent for every 2,000. The cases of the victims are heartbreaking, the effects on their personalities of the harassment, surveillance and torture they endured lasts beyond the reach of the old regime, through the supposed liberation.

She is quite effective on the attitude of today's German society to Ossies (former East Germans), most former West Germans (Wessies) now feel that "they were Germans who had Communism for forty years and went backwards, and all they want now is money to have big TV sets and holidays... It was an experiment and it failed". Ossies on the other hand feel an amount of resentment that they now live in a society which is so unequal and relatively unsafe. This resentment has spawned a cynical nostalgia for the old East Germany - Ostalgia. This outcome is astonishing to the outsider, but Funder's book carefully outlines how this has come to pass, since the optimism of the day's when the Berlin wall collapsed.

She excellently outlines revealing vignettes - the toilet minder, ex-East Berliner , who would like to travel, especially to visit China " to have a look at that Wall of theirs"; the former broadcaster, whose weekly propaganda program made him one of the most reviled figures of the Communist regime, who now rails against the reality TV show where people are locked into a house and observed via camera, their every move recorded - he calls it "Big Brozer" with unconscious irony- as a product of `The Australian Television Tyrant' {Murdoch}.

She is less revealing when dealing with the ex-Stasi agents, whom she meets. They talk to her as an apparently neutral foreigner, but their description of the past is filled with minimization and evasion. Their bewilderment at the collapse of their entire belief system and social structure is their most deeply felt emotion.
The book strengths lie in the despair of the stories themselves, and the craft that Funder brings to their telling, the mixture of bewilderment, despair, comedy and banality with which she makes the past and present so real. That said the weaknesses lie in her intrusion of her own story into the tale and her attempts at analysis. Funder is the thread along which the story advances - the tales of her acquaintances, her journalistic assignments mingle in the narrative. For the most part this works, however it can be over-instrusive, in particular when includes some dream sequences.

As an outside in Germany, she fails on when using German self analysis - e.g. Tucholsky's observation that all Germans grovel in front of counters and aspire to sit behind them - is fine for a German to make, but smacks of intrusion into a family quarrel when used by an outsider. Occasionally the commentary will lapse into German exceptionalism - what is it about the Germans and their lack of self esteem that makes them co-operate with oppression and totalitarianism. Its seems to me that this is not too far from the views expressed in the book "Hitler's willing Executioners", and is equally fatuous. It is a myth that societies react selflessly in the face of coercive repression, the French faced it for four years in World War II, Eastern Europe for forty years. Funder's book would be better without these judgmental side tracks.

That being said, it's a wonderful read. There are heat breaking stories of peoples still living with the impact of their treatment by the Communist regime, stories of people still living in denial of the crimes that they have committed. Surprises about the compromises made by the current regime in terms of failing to pursue those crimes, both in a forlorn effort to forgive by forgetting, but also due to typical bureaucratic underfunding. Hugely revealing, and topical in the sense of reminding us that systems and regimes can make enormous mistakes, of historical importance, that questioning dissent is vital for societies and that individual morality must guides all functionaries within systems.

dennis wrote:DOUBLE-MINDED CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE SERVES DVD’S AGENDA
The CIA’s fraudulent finance operations have been systematically destroying the global financial economy in accordance with the bribery-oriented blueprint developed by George Bush Sr. and the corrupt Dr Alan Greenspan for Deutsche Verteidigungs Dienst (DVD), Dachau, the heirs of the Nazi Abwehr originally directed from Oklahoma City by the late Admiral Canaris, who operated under the assumed name of Samuel Randall Pittman until he fell ill in 1974, when his place was occupied on a temporary basis by the triple or quadruple agent Dr Henry Kissinger, who has never managed to discard his hideously guttural German accent, which no American ever seems to have questioned!

Kissinger persuaded President Gerald Ford (a.k.a. the pornographer Leslie Lynch King Jr.) to fire William Colby (later ‘suicided’ during a ‘canoe trip’ on the Potomac) and to replace him as DCI with George Henry Walker Bush Sr. (Scherff), a long-time Abwehr/DVD asset and CIA agent implicated in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, in a manoeuvre whereby the DVD came to control the Central Intelligence Agency totally (rather than partially through the notorious earlier postwar penetrations).
the Nazi repression and intelligence chief in the Soviet Union, General Reinhard Gehlen, not only managed to persuade a willing US political and intelligence class that Mr Stalin was preparing to invade Western Europe (whereas in reality Josef Djiugashivili-Kochba had only one and a half mechanised divisions, the rest being either decimated or still horse-drawn, while his repression cadres were bogged down with imposing their control over the newly-annexed satellites), but also over time procured the mass penetration of the US intelligence community and other US structures with ‘former’ Nazi operatives and scientists, finally backing the reconstituted European elements of his former networks into the Germany-based US intelligence structures themselves .
Does anyone know of a scandal A Bush wasnt involved in?

The Lord always turns Satan's works against himself and uses those works in the favor of the righteous. I personally am not too worried about this new facility.

Lets learn a lesson from history and not go down the path of Stassi Secret Police. Why were all the East Germans trying to get across the wall? It was because of the Stasi; Duh. NGL. why dont you tell us about all the CIA operatives, stasi, smom, kgb, ss,dvd, ect, spies and spooks that have been held accountable for their hundreds of thousands of murders, tortures poisonings, lies, sterilizations ect ect, ect, abuses,ect, and then tell us all about those who have been brought to justice, and paid for or even felt sorry for the atrocities they have committed,[ speaking of the CIA] in the name of free loving americans like yourself. Why dont you tell those millions and millions of people in other countries who have had their governments corrupted by our CIA in the name of the US. why dont you tell those millions who have surrived living under those regimes to 'just suck it Up' like you told me in another thread. Then tell us all about the congressional overseers like your good friend hatch who are even more responsible than the operatives, and how they have been held acountable.and been brought to justice. people that have your aditude and think like you continue to vote for and support corrupt politicians like Bush and hatch. Now it makes more sense to me why they continue to get elected for 34 years!!!!!!!! I can also see why you are not worried about getting on the spy center list. With friends like Hatch if you ever made a mistake and had enough courage to speak out against such criminal, and unconstitutional activities he would for sure keep you safe in homeland security. In my opinion , people like you, who sit back and support criminals that do the things like I have pointed out, are actually worse than the criminals themselves, and like you say, your work will be turned against yourself. On the other hand when I open my stasi file I hope there are many many volumes of deeds and words that convict me of being a true Christian freedom loving Patriot speaking out against oppression and tyranny and injustice. A voice for those who have been silenced. In the words of Rockefeller . I am Guilty and proud of it. [I wish no one has to learn through suffering, but only hope no one else has to endure the horrors of a SS secret police.]

NoGreaterLove wrote:

dennis wrote:DOUBLE-MINDED CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE SERVES DVD’S AGENDA
The CIA’s fraudulent finance operations have been systematically destroying the global financial economy in accordance with the bribery-oriented blueprint developed by George Bush Sr. and the corrupt Dr Alan Greenspan for Deutsche Verteidigungs Dienst (DVD), Dachau, the heirs of the Nazi Abwehr originally directed from Oklahoma City by the late Admiral Canaris, who operated under the assumed name of Samuel Randall Pittman until he fell ill in 1974, when his place was occupied on a temporary basis by the triple or quadruple agent Dr Henry Kissinger, who has never managed to discard his hideously guttural German accent, which no American ever seems to have questioned!

Kissinger persuaded President Gerald Ford (a.k.a. the pornographer Leslie Lynch King Jr.) to fire William Colby (later ‘suicided’ during a ‘canoe trip’ on the Potomac) and to replace him as DCI with George Henry Walker Bush Sr. (Scherff), a long-time Abwehr/DVD asset and CIA agent implicated in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, in a manoeuvre whereby the DVD came to control the Central Intelligence Agency totally (rather than partially through the notorious earlier postwar penetrations).
the Nazi repression and intelligence chief in the Soviet Union, General Reinhard Gehlen, not only managed to persuade a willing US political and intelligence class that Mr Stalin was preparing to invade Western Europe (whereas in reality Josef Djiugashivili-Kochba had only one and a half mechanised divisions, the rest being either decimated or still horse-drawn, while his repression cadres were bogged down with imposing their control over the newly-annexed satellites), but also over time procured the mass penetration of the US intelligence community and other US structures with ‘former’ Nazi operatives and scientists, finally backing the reconstituted European elements of his former networks into the Germany-based US intelligence structures themselves .
Does anyone know of a scandal A Bush wasnt involved in?

The Lord always turns Satan's works against himself and uses those works in the favor of the righteous. I personally am not too worried about this new facility.

Maybe you should be. A lot of evil is sometimes done before the works are turned to righteousness.

I am actively fighting against secret combinations. Sorry too busy to be worried about such things as this. The best thing to do, is to teach the gospel, keep your covenants and support and sustain the constitution of the U.S..
If you do not like the new facility, write your congressman. If you do not like your congressman, vote for someone else. Laws are in place to change those things we do not like. If the majority of the people choose evil, this nation is ripe for destruction and the Lord says vengeance is mine.
I am not going to spent my time getting all bent out of shape because of this new facility. If I felt as strongly about it as you do, then I would follow legal lines in order to stop it. It is a waste of time getting all fired up about it and then doing nothing but griping.
Have you followed the proper legal steps to stop this facility? If so, what?
What have you done to further the Lord's work? He is the opposite of those atrocities you mention. If you are on his side, then fight along with him.
It seems to upset you that I am not worried about it. It also seems to upset you that I believe God wins in the end. It appears that you do not believe that God takes every offensive blow that Satan delivers and deflects it, then uses it for good. The same will be true of this facility if it is evil.

Interesting little tidbit the New York Times unleashed today.....nothing new if you know about Operation Paperclip but shocking none the less with the NYT releases the information (part of that little bit of truth to go with all the lies bit) -

Nazis Were Given ‘Safe Haven’ in U.S., Report Says
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/14/us/14 ... &src=twrhp

Secret Justice Department Report Details How the U.S. Helped Former Nazis
http://documents.nytimes.com/confidenti ... ref=us#p=1

Well well what does every body else think? I sincerely hope that ngl is right in that the government led by our senator is building a very expensive genealogy research center. However the evidence is over whelmingly to the contrary. I personally am of the opinion hatch knows and is not telling. Why? National Security has been used as an excuse for way to long to justify 1000'S OF atrosities committed hear and abroad by our CIA NSA and military. I agree with Fiengold the only senator to opposed the patriot act which Hatch claims he wrote and gives the cia the right to take away our constituional rights and also to build spy centers. iT IS NOT JUST THE ONE IN UTAH. THEY ARE WORLD WIDE. lOOK UP PINE GAP AUSTRALIA, WHAT THEY DO THER IS LIKE WHAT BUSCH SAID ABOUT SKULL AND BONES; TO SECRET TO TALK ABOUT
http://www.archipelago.org/vol6-2/feingold.htm OPPOSING THE PATRIOT ACT. PEOPLE IN UTAH THAT SUPPORT HATCH ARE REALLY SUPORTING THE SECRET COMBINATIONS. NOW HOPEFULLY HATCH WILL REPENT AND COME CLEAN AND TAKE ON THE GADIANTONS LIKE JFK. HE COULD . WILL HE? WOULD IT HELP IF PEOPLE WERE AWAKE AND OPPOSED TO WHAT IS GOING ON NOW?..JFK TOOK ON THE FED THE CIA AND THE MOSSAD. FROM WHAT I HEARD FROM HATCH HE ISNT PLANNING TO

dennis wrote:Well well what does every body else think? I sincerely hope that ngl is right in that the government led by our senator is building a very expensive genealogy research center. However the evidence is over whelmingly to the contrary. I personally am of the opinion hatch knows and is not telling. Why? National Security has been used as an excuse for way to long to justify 1000'S OF atrosities committed hear and abroad by our CIA NSA and military. I agree with Fiengold the only senator to opposed the patriot act which Hatch claims he wrote and gives the cia the right to take away our constituional rights and also to build spy centers. iT IS NOT JUST THE ONE IN UTAH. THEY ARE WORLD WIDE. lOOK UP PINE GAP AUSTRALIA, WHAT THEY DO THER IS LIKE WHAT BUSCH SAID ABOUT SKULL AND BONES; TO SECRET TO TALK ABOUT
http://www.archipelago.org/vol6-2/feingold.htm OPPOSING THE PATRIOT ACT. PEOPLE IN UTAH THAT SUPPORT HATCH ARE REALLY SUPORTING THE SECRET COMBINATIONS. NOW HOPEFULLY HATCH WILL REPENT AND COME CLEAN AND TAKE ON THE GADIANTONS LIKE JFK. HE COULD . WILL HE? WOULD IT HELP IF PEOPLE WERE AWAKE AND OPPOSED TO WHAT IS GOING ON NOW?..JFK TOOK ON THE FED THE CIA AND THE MOSSAD. FROM WHAT I HEARD FROM HATCH HE ISNT PLANNING TO

In the current perspective I have on the timing of things.....I'd lean towards NGL's perspective. May be operational for some period during the gap though.....

dennis wrote:Well well what does every body else think? I sincerely hope that ngl is right in that the government led by our senator is building a very expensive genealogy research center. However the evidence is over whelmingly to the contrary. I personally am of the opinion hatch knows and is not telling. Why? National Security has been used as an excuse for way to long to justify 1000'S OF atrosities committed hear and abroad by our CIA NSA and military. I agree with Fiengold the only senator to opposed the patriot act which Hatch claims he wrote and gives the cia the right to take away our constituional rights and also to build spy centers. iT IS NOT JUST THE ONE IN UTAH. THEY ARE WORLD WIDE. lOOK UP PINE GAP AUSTRALIA, WHAT THEY DO THER IS LIKE WHAT BUSCH SAID ABOUT SKULL AND BONES; TO SECRET TO TALK ABOUT
http://www.archipelago.org/vol6-2/feingold.htm OPPOSING THE PATRIOT ACT. PEOPLE IN UTAH THAT SUPPORT HATCH ARE REALLY SUPORTING THE SECRET COMBINATIONS. NOW HOPEFULLY HATCH WILL REPENT AND COME CLEAN AND TAKE ON THE GADIANTONS LIKE JFK. HE COULD . WILL HE? WOULD IT HELP IF PEOPLE WERE AWAKE AND OPPOSED TO WHAT IS GOING ON NOW?..JFK TOOK ON THE FED THE CIA AND THE MOSSAD. FROM WHAT I HEARD FROM HATCH HE ISNT PLANNING TO

Not that I do not agree with your opinion of the facility. You are probably spot on.
I have posted this before, but I will say it again. About 1993 or so I was in a meeting in which it was discussed what was done with those little cards you fill out at your local store to win prizes at major chains. Well, at that time, some of the local chains were contributing the information to a source within the judicial branch that was placing it in a database. So the next time you decide to fill something out with your personal info on it to get gain, such as the lottery, I would think twice.

"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieve/review by the authorities."

Zbigniew Brzezinski, CFR member, founding member of the Trilateral Commission, National Security Advisor to Obama and five U.S. presidents
Up to date complete files containing the most personal information!!! This Guy Zbig I would classify as one of the GA's in the Lucerferian Leadership. He will tell word for word exactly what will happen before it happens. On this forum there is A LOT OF SPECULATION ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN AND WHEN. I have found there is no one on this forum more acurate than Zbig

dennis wrote:Well well what does every body else think? I sincerely hope that ngl is right in that the government led by our senator is building a very expensive genealogy research center. However the evidence is over whelmingly to the contrary. I personally am of the opinion hatch knows and is not telling. Why? National Security has been used as an excuse for way to long to justify 1000'S OF atrosities committed hear and abroad by our CIA NSA and military. I agree with Fiengold the only senator to opposed the patriot act which Hatch claims he wrote and gives the cia the right to take away our constituional rights and also to build spy centers. iT IS NOT JUST THE ONE IN UTAH. THEY ARE WORLD WIDE. lOOK UP PINE GAP AUSTRALIA, WHAT THEY DO THER IS LIKE WHAT BUSCH SAID ABOUT SKULL AND BONES; TO SECRET TO TALK ABOUT
http://www.archipelago.org/vol6-2/feingold.htm OPPOSING THE PATRIOT ACT. PEOPLE IN UTAH THAT SUPPORT HATCH ARE REALLY SUPORTING THE SECRET COMBINATIONS. NOW HOPEFULLY HATCH WILL REPENT AND COME CLEAN AND TAKE ON THE GADIANTONS LIKE JFK. HE COULD . WILL HE? WOULD IT HELP IF PEOPLE WERE AWAKE AND OPPOSED TO WHAT IS GOING ON NOW?..JFK TOOK ON THE FED THE CIA AND THE MOSSAD. FROM WHAT I HEARD FROM HATCH HE ISNT PLANNING TO

Some people on this forum just believe in teaching the gospel, and doing nothing to oppose satan by exposing his actions. I believe that in addition to teaching the gospel that good men need to be waking up their neighbors so that they can take action against evil. I believe God expects us to be active in both areas.

moonwhim wrote:

dennis wrote:Well well what does every body else think? I sincerely hope that ngl is right in that the government led by our senator is building a very expensive genealogy research center. However the evidence is over whelmingly to the contrary. I personally am of the opinion hatch knows and is not telling. Why? National Security has been used as an excuse for way to long to justify 1000'S OF atrosities committed hear and abroad by our CIA NSA and military. I agree with Fiengold the only senator to opposed the patriot act which Hatch claims he wrote and gives the cia the right to take away our constituional rights and also to build spy centers. iT IS NOT JUST THE ONE IN UTAH. THEY ARE WORLD WIDE. lOOK UP PINE GAP AUSTRALIA, WHAT THEY DO THER IS LIKE WHAT BUSCH SAID ABOUT SKULL AND BONES; TO SECRET TO TALK ABOUT
http://www.archipelago.org/vol6-2/feingold.htm OPPOSING THE PATRIOT ACT. PEOPLE IN UTAH THAT SUPPORT HATCH ARE REALLY SUPORTING THE SECRET COMBINATIONS. NOW HOPEFULLY HATCH WILL REPENT AND COME CLEAN AND TAKE ON THE GADIANTONS LIKE JFK. HE COULD . WILL HE? WOULD IT HELP IF PEOPLE WERE AWAKE AND OPPOSED TO WHAT IS GOING ON NOW?..JFK TOOK ON THE FED THE CIA AND THE MOSSAD. FROM WHAT I HEARD FROM HATCH HE ISNT PLANNING TO

Some people on this forum just believe in teaching the gospel, and doing nothing to oppose satan by exposing his actions. I believe that in addition to teaching the gospel that good men need to be waking up their neighbors so that they can take action against evil. I believe God expects us to be active in both areas.

Might also stipulate that in order for the neighbors to be opposed to evil.....the prerequisite is that they must be righteous first!

Otherwise they'll side with the wicked if its in their interest to do so (bought off, rat you out, etc etc etc)......or just riot and murder each other to get gain.

Illegal surveillance, the government admits
The final government report of the Church Committee concluded:

Too many people have been spied upon by too many Government agencies and too much information has been collected. The Government has often undertaken the secret surveillance of citizens on the basis of their political beliefs, even when those beliefs posed no threat of violence or illegal acts on behalf of a hostile foreign power. The Government, operating primarily through secret informants, but also using other intrusive techniques such as wiretaps, microphone "bugs", surreptitious mail opening, and break-ins, has swept in vast amounts of information about the personal lives, views, and associations of American citizens. Investigations of groups deemed potentially dangerous -- and even of groups suspected of associating with potentially dangerous organizations -- have continued for decades, despite the fact that those groups did not engage in unlawful activity.
Groups and individuals have been harassed and disrupted because of their political views and their lifestyles. Investigations have been based upon vague standards whose breadth made excessive collection inevitable. Unsavory and vicious tactics have been employed -- including anonymous attempts to break up marriages, disrupt meetings, ostracize persons from their professions, and provoke target groups into rivalries that might result in deaths. Intelligence agencies have served the political and personal objectives of presidents and other high officials. While the agencies often committed excesses in response to pressure from high officials in the Executive branch and Congress, they also occasionally initiated improper activities and then concealed them from officials whom they had a duty to inform.
Governmental officials -- including those whose principal duty is to enforce the law --have violated or ignored the law over long periods of time and have advocated and defended their right to break the law.
The Constitutional system of checks and balances has not adequately controlled intelligence activities. Until recently the Executive branch has neither delineated the scope of permissible activities nor established procedures for supervising intelligence agencies. Congress has failed to exercise sufficient oversight, seldom questioning the use to which its appropriations were being put. Most domestic intelligence issues have not reached the courts, and in those cases when they have reached the courts, the judiciary has been reluctant to grapple with them. COINTELPRO tactics continue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

so that they can take action against evil.

MW
The evil you are speaking of is a lot larger than our government and lies in the laps of all of us. It is the failure of mankind to keep His commandments. This is the root of the symptoms. Kill the root and the tree dies. If mankind repents, the evils of the people will die. Corrupt Gov is only the symptom of a corrupt society. Clean up the society and the corruptness disappears.
You appear to be soley placing the blames of our illnesses on the government. Broaden your scope and see it is much larger than that. It is corrupt at the root (people).

If you were to replace our current government with another one, it would be even more wicked than the first because you have not cured the source of the problem. You have only placed a infected band aide on it.
Heal the people and you will heal the government. That healing comes through Christ's atonement.

NoGreaterLove wrote:If you were to replace our current government with another one, it would be even more wicked than the first because you have not cured the source of the problem. You have only placed a infected band aide on it.
Heal the people and you will heal the government. That healing comes through Christ's atonement.

It's also an information war. Information has been suppressed. God works his miracles through people... and we have yet to see what this "Pit" is that they have dug for us which they fall into. I'd like to believe they fell into it by people like myself who eagerly do more than just vote.

We are all going to be held accountable, to some degree, with what we do with the knowledge that we have gained in this life.

"With great (knowledge), comes great responsibility." -Spiderman

"Pray like everything depends on God, then work like everything depends on you." -Unknown

"For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required." -Jesus

InfoWarrior82 wrote:... and we have yet to see what this "Pit" is that they have dug for us which they fall into. I'd like to believe they fell into it by people like myself who eagerly do more than just vote.

Debt or money created by debt. Guarantees a transfer of assets and power to the banks for nearly nothing! They are about to fall into it though as everyone defaults and tells them to take a flying hike! This is the end game where the gloves come off.

Does any one know what happened to NGL? I kinda miss the old crocodile