Optimism vs. Pessimism

[Jason]

The truth is that more bad news for the U.S. economy comes out almost daily now. The following are 10 things that you need to know about the latest econ0mic numbers….

1 – Gallup’s measure of unemployment, which is not adjusted for “seasonal factors”, showed a sharp increase in September. According to Gallup, unemployment has increased from 8.9% in July to 9.3% in August and to 10.1% in September.

2 – The seasonally-adjusted Alternate Unemployment Rate compiled by Shadow Government Statistics shows that the real unemployment rate in the United States is worse than it has been ever since the economic downturn began. The Alternate Unemployment Rate calculated by SGS reflects estimated “long-term discouraged workers”, which the U.S. government stopped keeping track of back in 1994….

3 – The number of Americans working part-time jobs “for economic reasons” is now the highest it has been in at least five decades.

4 – 15.8% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 were unemployed during the month of September.

5 – Agricultural commodities continued to move higher on Friday. Wheat, corn and soybeans all saw their prices soar. Unfortunately for American consumers, this is part of a broader trend of rising agricultural commodity prices. As this continues, it is inevitable that we will all be seeing much higher food prices at our local grocery stores.

6 – It is being reported that PNC Financial Services Group has suspended the sale of foreclosed homes for the next thirty days. This is the fourth major lender to take dramatic action recently. Will nearly all U.S. mortgage lenders eventually be caught up in this crisis before it is over?

7 – Bank of America announced on Friday that it is now going to suspend sales of foreclosed homes in all 50 U.S. states as it continues to evaluate internal foreclosure procedures. This “foreclosure crisis” threatens to decimate the entire U.S. real estate industry. What has happened is that millions of U.S. mortgages were sold and resold around the globe at lightning speed and the chain of ownership for many of these mortgages become muddied. In addition, it is starting to emerge that many of these lenders used fraudulent loan documents during foreclosure proceedings and company officials often used “robo-signers” to sign important foreclosure documents. So now mortgage lenders, title insurers and those buying or selling foreclosed homes will be facing years of gridlock and chaos as foreclosure-related lawsuits multiply exponentially. All of this is going to have a dramatic effect on the U.S. real estate market. In fact, it is being reported that U.S. home sales are already starting to be affected by this crisis.

8 – The U.S. National debt just keep growing. If you took the national debt and divided it up among all Americans, each American (including children) would owe approximately $42,000. So, for an average family of four, their share of the national debt would be $168,000.

9 – Interest payments on the U.S. national debt increased 13% in the fiscal year that ended September 30th. If interest payments continue to increase that rapidly each year they will bankrupt the U.S. government very quickly.

10 – It appears that some weird games are being played with the national debt numbers. Back on September 29th, the U.S. national debt was 13.466 trillion dollars. On September 30th, the U.S. national debt soared to 13.561 trillion dollars. Then on October 1st, the beginning of the new fiscal year for the federal government, the U.S. national debt jumped up to 13.610 trillion dollars. So how in the world does the U.S. national debt jump by a whopping 144 billion dollars in just two days? Somebody has some explaining to do for this kind of accounting.

The United States was once the wealthiest nation by far on the entire planet.

But now we are in such a rapid decline that it is hard for most Americans to even comprehend it.

We are like that one couple that almost every neighborhood seems to have that has two shiny new cars in their driveway, that dresses in designer clothes and that seems to have plenty of money to take vacations and yet is in debt up to their eyeballs.

http://www.infowars.com/more-bad-news-1 ... c-numbers/

27 Signs That The Standard Of Living For America’s Middle Class Is Dropping Like A Rock
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/10/10 ... t+Press%29

Nato contractors 'attacking own vehicles' in Pakistan

The owners of oil tankers being used to supply fuel to Nato in Afghanistan say some of the attacks on their convoys are suspicious.

They say there is evidence to suggest that bombs have been planted in many of vehicles by the "Nato contractors" - individuals or companies who have been contracted by Nato to supply fuel and goods to forces in Afghanistan.

The contractors subsequently hire the transporters who then carry the goods.
Selling fuel

Dost Mohammad, an oil tanker owner from Nowshera district, said a Nato contractor had recently been caught trying to plant a bomb in an oil tanker.

"This happened in the area of Paiyee, when he was putting the bomb under the vehicle."

"At that time, a few men also opened fire on the tankers. The deputy later told the police that he had been told to plant the bomb by the contractor."

Dost Mohammad said the contractor had apparently sold off the fuel first.

"Only 2,000 litres from the original 50,000 litres had been left in the tanker to cover up the crime," he said.

Dost Mohammad said it is a win-win situation for the contractors.

"If an old vehicle is burnt, Nato gives them money for a new vehicle. In addition, they receive compensation for all the fuel lost as well."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11489955

US repeatedly threatened to use nukes on N. Korea: declassified documents
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/repe ... documents/





A Window Into the Mind of a Scientific Dictator
http://oldthinkernews.com/Articles/oldt ... a_scie.htm

JOE “RAGMAN” TARNOVSKY: Possible Future Draft?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/09/53605/

RESTREPO: the Platoon Movie of Afghanistan War

Everything I saw in the movie begged one question “why are we there?”

Nothing the soldiers did, no matter how brave.

Nothing they sacrificed including their lives did anything to defend American freedom or prevent a terrorist attack, which supposedly are the two main reasons for being there.

By Jonathan Kim

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/09 ... istan-war/



US Base Guards in Afghanistan Tied to Taliban
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/10/ ... Unknown%29

Report condemns US funding of Taliban
http://www.euronews.net/2010/10/08/repo ... f-taliban/

US funding for the Taliban: Can it be stopped?
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/afgh ... an-funding

Senate: U.S. Military Indirectly Funding Enemy Afghan Warlords
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles ... 20Warlords

U.S. Military Contracts Funding Taliban
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-shee ... on-terror/

'Private security firms funding Taliban'
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/145740.html

MoD probes claim that soldiers are smuggling heroin from Afghanistan
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... cking.html

Afghan Heroin Under Attack On Two Fronts
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htterr ... 01007.aspx

Heroin allegations bogus: Canadian military
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/09/ ... diers.html

Afghanistan Drug Market
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... market.htm

Probe into Afghanistan troops' heroin trafficking claims
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 77428.html

Afghan heroin is flooding the United States
http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?164774

Afghanistan: Heroin-ravaged State
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=13524

Is the Military Ignoring Its Heroin Problem in the Ranks?
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/143447/is ... the_ranks/

Janet Tavakoli On The "Biggest Fraud In The History Of Capital Markets"
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/janet- ... to+zero%29

Mortgage Broker Association strategic default
http://www.angrybearblog.com/2010/10/mo ... ry+Bear%29

Duration of Unemployment

This graph shows the duration of unemployment as a percent of the civilian labor force. The graph shows the number of unemployed in four categories: less than 5 week, 6 to 14 weeks, 15 to 26 weeks, and 27 weeks or more.

Note: The BLS reports 15+ weeks, so the 15 to 26 weeks number was calculated.

In Setpember 2010, the number of unemployed for 27 weeks or more declined to 6.123 million (seasonally adjusted) from 6.249 million in August. It appears the number of long term unemployed has peaked, but it is still very difficult for these people to find a job - and this is a very serious employment issue.

The 5 to 14 week category declined in September, however the less than 5 week category continued to increase - and is now at the highest level since January 2010.

The less than 5 week category shows how the turnover in the labor market has changed. Back in the '70s and '80s there was much more turnover in the labor market. And that added turnover is a key reason the overall unemployment rate was higher in the early '80s recession than right now.

Note: Even though these numbers are all seasonally adjusted, they can't be added together to calculate the unemployment rate.

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/ ... ed+Risk%29

Unofficial Problem Bank List 877 Institutions
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/ ... ed+Risk%29

Bank of America has $2.3 trillion in assets but $956 billion of that is made up in loans. Think those loans are valued at current market levels? The FDIC would have a challenge even breaking up one too big to fail bank.
http://www.mybudget360.com/bank-of-amer ... -in-loans/

[Jason]

Toxic Sludge in Hungary
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Natura ... &src=nhrss

Police find C4 explosives in lower Manhattan cemetery
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/201 ... tml?r=news

Food firms spend millions to block food health warning labels
http://www.naturalnews.com/030007_food_ ... ealth.html

HOUSTON, Sept. 28 (UPI) -- Scientists say 10 years' worth of GPS data show parts of northwest Houston are sinking -- and rapidly.
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2010/09 ... 285721438/

Data from the Hurricane Hunters, land stations, and satellite imagery reveal that the strong tropical disturbance (98L) centered near the coast of Honduras just west of the border with Nicaragua is now Tropical Storm Paula. Paula is the 16th named storm of the 2010 Atlantic hurricane season.
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMa ... rynum=1652

ACLU puts faces on violations of civil liberties
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10284/1094217-454.stm

Economists Cut U.S. Growth Forecasts Through 2011, Survey Shows
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/BNTEAM ... /id/373278

Surprise -- The Very Dark Side of U.S. History
http://www.alternet.org/news/148451/sur ... age=entire

Opium crop grows near troop base
http://www.theage.com.au/national/opium ... 16g0l.html

Warlords Loyal To The Taliban Guarding US Bases In Afghanistan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc8J_GZNWeI

Some Veterans Get Pink Slips Instead of Tickertape
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/11 ... ickertape/

In Pictures: American Hell in Afghanistan
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/10/11 ... t+Press%29

420 banks demand 1-world currency
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=213953

MARTIAL LAW ALERT: Banking Collapse Scenarios Fall/Winter 2010
http://www.pakalertpress.com/2010/10/10 ... t+Press%29

IMF/World Bank Annual Meeting 2010 Photos
http://publicintelligence.net/imfworld- ... 10-photos/

Obama's NSA Pick Has Fannie Mae, Goldman Sachs Past
http://www.newmediajournal.us/governmen ... s/1011.htm

Highway to nowhere
http://tribune.com.pk/story/61007/highway-to-nowhere/

Congressional Staffers Gain From Trading in Stocks
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

9/11: The Unidentified Murder Weapons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT28hCyX ... r_embedded

How Dumb Are (you) We?
http://dailycensored.com/2010/10/11/how ... ensored%29

[Rand]

To the original post: Faith in God denies either optimism or pessimism. If we trust God, "all is well", and there is no cause for either state. Christ, in the Garden of Gethsemane, was neither. As far as I can recall, he never exhibited either in his mortal ministry.

Romans 13: 1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

If there are no powers but of God, why would we ever be pessimistic, or for that matter optimistic.

[give_me_liberty]

If there are no powers but of God, why would we ever be pessimistic, or for that matter optimistic.

This is why (from President Hinckley):
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

However, as I said in the original thread, if optimism blinds you from truth because the truth sounds pessimistic, it is hardly any better than pessimism. A combination of the better parts of optimism and realism (sound like faith?) is best IMHO.

[Rand]

I haven't read your link to Pres. Hinckley's talk, but think about Abinadi. Was he optimistic or pessimistic as he was burned at the stake? Neither. Of course as usual, this is very subjective based on peoples experiences and the subtle nuances of perceived meaning of the word, but based on my take of the words, and the way people in the world practice the two states of being, neither is justifiable before God, in the more refined levels of our development.

[give_me_liberty]

Neither. Of course as usual, this is very subjective based on peoples experiences and the subtle nuances of perceived meaning of the word

I guess it does depend on what you mean by optimism. I tend to look at it as an attitude similar to and including faith and hope (optimism and faith are mentioned together a few times in Pres. Hinckley's talk).
This quote was given describing President Hinckley, I think this captures it pretty well:

His optimism was justified not by confidence in his own powers to work things out but by his great faith that God’s powers were in place.
Henry B. Eyring, “Things Will Work Out,” Ensign, Mar 2008, 26–28

[Rand]

I see optimism as a positive mental attitude, based on a personal set of values. Faith is a set of values based on a faith in God. A person of optimism is sure that things will eventually work out their way. A person of faith is sure things are perfect just as they are, and trust in God's cause.
Pessimism is only a lack of faith, with little conviction that things will work out the way you want either. Not a good place.

I see the way the words are used commonly, and I don't find much scriptural precedence for that view.

[Jason]

A person of faith is sure things are perfect just as they are, and trust in God's cause.

Perhaps not perfect but imo the reality due to agency and the result of choices. World isn't pretty and its ultimately the macro result of individual choices....for better or worse. God could create a perfect environment but would we learn and grow in a perfect environment - know happiness from sadness, joy from pain, etc etc etc??? And wouldn't that involve taking away agency?

There is a time allotted to the adversary to test our choices....the adversary effectively functions as a gate keeper for the higher kingdoms. The opposition part of opposition in all things.

We know the heavens wept when Lucifer fell. This is eternal...this agency and choices opportunity. Heaven doesn't guarantee one will never cry again over the choices people make.....or that people will always make the best choices. Its life....eternal life.....with eternal consequences. We have the opportunity to repent but that doesn't mean the consequences of choices are taken away.

You place your hope, faith, and trust in God....therefore serving and sacrificing your personal will to God and placing your destiny (will) in His hand. Then whatever happens will be for our benefit.....whether its sunshine, rain, sleet, 70 lbs hailstones, earthquakes, or the perfect sunset.

The ends of the earth shall inquire after thy name, and fools shall have thee in derision, and hell shall rage against thee;

While the pure in heart, and the wise, and the noble, and the virtuous, shall seek counsel, and authority, and blessings constantly from under thy hand.

And thy people shall never be turned against thee by the testimony of traitors.

And although their influence shall cast thee into trouble, and into bars and walls, thou shalt be had in honor; and but for a small moment and thy voice shall be more terrible in the midst of thine enemies than the fierce lion, because of thy righteousness; and thy God shall stand by thee forever and ever.

If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perils among robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;

If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;

And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good.

The Son of Man hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?

Therefore, hold on thy way, and the priesthood shall remain with thee; for their bounds are set, they cannot pass. Thy days are known, and thy years shall not be numbered less; therefore, fear not what man can do, for God shall be with you forever and ever.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/122/8#8

Optimism for me is faith in God....or the comfort of knowing that God reigns supreme (sets the boundaries of the adversary)!

[Squally]

Optimism to me is believing that all this mortgage fraud will be dealt with justly.

[Jason]

Optimism to me is believing that all this mortgage fraud will be dealt with justly.

LOL

EFF recently received new documents as a result of our FOIA lawsuit on social network surveillance, filed with the help of UC Berkeley’s Samuelson Clinic, that reveal two ways the government has been tracking people online: surveillance of social networks to investigate citizenship petitions and the Department of Homeland Security’s use of a “Social Networking Monitoring Center” to collect and analyze online public communication during President Obama’s inauguration. This is the first of two posts describing these documents and some of their implications. (Read part one.)

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/10/ap ... enship-and

Secret Cold War plan included mass detentions
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story ... klist.html

FEMA Director Battle Book
http://publicintelligence.net/fema-dire ... ttle-book/

[fps.sledge]

http://new.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... s?lang=eng

Brother Edgley describes Faith with "pessimism" as it's antonym.

Choose faith over doubt, choose faith over fear, choose faith over the unknown and the unseen, and choose faith over pessimism.

[Original_Intent]

http://new.lds.org/general-conference/2 ... s?lang=eng

Brother Edgley describes Faith with "pessimism" as it's antonym.

Choose faith over doubt, choose faith over fear, choose faith over the unknown and the unseen, and choose faith over pessimism.

that's all well and good, but what has been characterized as "pessimism" on these boards in not the antonym of faith. there are a few who accuse anyone who is not singing "All is well in Zion" as being pessimistic.

Raising a warning voice is not pessimism.
Pointing out incoming disaster is not pessimism.

When you see storm clouds on the horizon, saying "It looks like a storm is coming we better get to shelter." is not pessimism.

Looking forward to the sunshine after the storm is faith.
Making preparations to weather the storm is faith.

Ignoring the storm clouds is NOT faith.

[Rand]

I submit that hearing the still small voice instead of the wind, the thunder and the rumbling of the earth in the midst of the storm, makes you feel like you are in the hands of the Eternal God, so what is a storm? That is faith. Optimism is thinking the storm is bad, and wanting it to be over, and believing it will someday stop, you latch onto that hope. Optimism is hope without faith or charity.

Alma is practicing Faith, Amulek is struggling with optimism. Alma 14:12 Now Amulek said unto Alma: Behold, perhaps they will burn us also.
13 And Alma said: Be it according to the will of the Lord. But, behold, our work is not finished; therefore they burn us not."

Abinadi never noticed he was in a storm. "14 And now when the flames began to scorch him, he cried unto them, saying:
15 Behold, even as ye have done unto me, so shall it come to pass that thy aseed shall cause that many shall suffer the pains that I do suffer, even the pains of bdeath by fire; and this because they believe in the salvation of the Lord their God.
16 And it will come to pass that ye shall be afflicted with all manner of adiseases because of your iniquities.
17 Yea, and ye shall be smitten on every hand, and shall be driven and scattered to and fro, even as a wild flock is driven by wild and ferocious beasts.
18 And in that day ye shall be hunted, and ye shall be taken by the hand of your enemies, and then ye shall suffer, as I suffer, the pains of death by fire.
19 Thus God executeth avengeance upon those that destroy his people. O God, breceive my soul.
20 And now, *when Abinadi had said these words, he fell, having suffered death by fire; yea, having been put to death because he would not deny the commandments of God, having sealed the truth of his words by his death."

He just did what the Spirit instructed. He know the better day was in the next life. No optimism or pessimism. Just faith, based on hope in Christ, and the result was charity.

[Jason]

I submit that hearing the still small voice instead of the wind, the thunder and the rumbling of the earth in the midst of the storm, makes you feel like you are in the hands of the Eternal God, so what is a storm? That is faith. Optimism is thinking the storm is bad, and wanting it to be over, and believing it will someday stop, you latch onto that hope. Optimism is hope without faith or charity.

Alma is practicing Faith, Amulek is struggling with optimism. Alma 14:12 Now Amulek said unto Alma: Behold, perhaps they will burn us also.
13 And Alma said: Be it according to the will of the Lord. But, behold, our work is not finished; therefore they burn us not."

Abinadi never noticed he was in a storm. "14 And now when the flames began to scorch him, he cried unto them, saying:
15 Behold, even as ye have done unto me, so shall it come to pass that thy aseed shall cause that many shall suffer the pains that I do suffer, even the pains of bdeath by fire; and this because they believe in the salvation of the Lord their God.
16 And it will come to pass that ye shall be afflicted with all manner of adiseases because of your iniquities.
17 Yea, and ye shall be smitten on every hand, and shall be driven and scattered to and fro, even as a wild flock is driven by wild and ferocious beasts.
18 And in that day ye shall be hunted, and ye shall be taken by the hand of your enemies, and then ye shall suffer, as I suffer, the pains of death by fire.
19 Thus God executeth avengeance upon those that destroy his people. O God, breceive my soul.
20 And now, *when Abinadi had said these words, he fell, having suffered death by fire; yea, having been put to death because he would not deny the commandments of God, having sealed the truth of his words by his death."

He just did what the Spirit instructed. He know the better day was in the next life. No optimism or pessimism. Just faith, based on hope in Christ, and the result was charity.

Of course those listening to his final statements (not including Alma) would i think definitely call him a pessimist!

[Rand]

Only those attached to this world, which faith helps us separate from.

[1984Orwellherenow]

This is a spinoff from another thread.

A pessimist would focus on the destruction...an optimist would focus on what happens right afterward...

I find this a false pretense, and it seems the majority of pessimism flows from this personal interpretation of 2nd coming events. We don't actually know what will happen. Revelations is highly symbolic, Daniel is "locked up" so to speak. I don't see looking at impending destruction of this nation as optimistic at all.

I'll offer you this collection and see if you change your POV.

Howard W. Hunter on Joseph S. Smith:

The Prophet Joseph Smith faced immense difficulties in his life and paid the ultimate price for his victory. But he was victorious, and he was a happy, robust, optimistic man. Those who knew him felt his strength and courage, even in the darkest of time. He did not sag in spirits or long remain in any despondency.

He said about our time—yours and mine—that ours is the moment “upon which prophets, priests and kings [in ages past] have dwelt with peculiar delight; [all these ancient witnesses for God] have looked forward with joyful anticipation to the day in which we live; and fired with heavenly and joyful anticipations they have sung and written and prophesied of this our day. … we are the favored people that God has [chosen] to bring about the Latter-day glory” (History of the Church, 4:609–10).

The ancient prophets saw us as “favored people” upon whom God would shower his full and complete latter-day glory, and I testify that is our destiny. What a privilege! What an honor! What a responsibility! And what joy! We have every reason to give thanks for the quality of our lives and the promises we have been given.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82620aRCRD

Is it possible we're too negative on the Savior's work then? What are all these prophets seeing that is so wonderful? Maybe the Lord's work is more beautiful than we could ever imagine. I'm sure you're skeptical, so read on.

Harold B. Lee, copied from earlier here:

"It is so easy to clamber onto the bandwagon and to join the extremists in condemnation, little realizing that when they commit their actions, they are not just tearing down a man; they are tearing down a nation, and they are striking at the underpinnings of one of the greatest of all the nations of all the world—a nation that was founded upon an inspired declaration we call the Constitution of the United States."

". . . We should not be concerned about finding out what is wrong with America, but we should be finding what is right about America and should be speaking optimistically and enthusiastically about America." (Ye Are the Light of the World 341-42)

"We are living in a time of great crisis. The country is torn with scandal and with criticism, with faultfinding and condemnation. There are those who have downgraded the image of this nation as probably never before in the history of the country. It is so easy to clamber onto the bandwagon and to join the extremists in condemnation, little realizing that when they commit their actions, they are not just tearing down a man; they are tearing down a nation, and they are striking at the underpinnings of one of the greatest of all the nations of all the world—a nation that was founded upon an inspired declaration we call the Constitution of the United States. The Lord said it was written by men whom He raised up for that very purpose, and that Constitution stands today as a model to all nations to pattern their lives" (Ye Are the Light of the World 340)

"I plead with you not to preach pessimism. Preach that this is the greatest country in all the world. This is the favored land. This is the land of our forefathers. It is the nation that will stand despite whatever trials or crises it may yet have to pass through." (Ye Are the Light of the World 350-51)

Are we looking at impending national doom (with optimism), or should we look to constantly oppose the constant forces of hell and earth against the US, and seek to always restore the nation? Are we supposed to be optimistic about it's doom and what comes after? Or that it will not fail as has been prophesied?

Moving forward to Howard W. Hunter:

I hope you won’t believe all the world’s difficulties have been wedged into your decade. I reassure you that things have been worse and they will always get better—especially when we live the gospel of Jesus Christ and give it a chance to flourish in our lives...

I promise you in the name of the Lord, whose servant I am, that God will always protect and care for his people. We will have our difficulties the way every generation and people have had difficulties. Your life in the 1990s is no different than any young person’s life has been in any age of time. But with the gospel of Jesus Christ you have every hope, promise, and reassurance. The Lord has power over his Saints and will always prepare places of peace, defense and safety for his people. The prophet Ether taught anciently (and he knew something about troubles): “Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God” (Ether 12:4).

President Hinckley

What I am suggesting is that each of us turn from the negativism that spreads through our society and look for the remarkable good among those with whom we associate, that we speak of one another’s virtues more than we speak of one another’s faults, that optimism replace pessimism, that our faith exceed our fears. When I was a young man and was inclined to speak critically of people or events, my father would say: “Pessimists do not contribute, unbelievers do not create, doubters do not achieve.”

How do we save a nation while looking for it [with optimism] to fail?

Looking at the dark side of things always leads to a spirit of pessimism which so often leads to defeat. If ever there was a man who gave encouragement to a nation in its time of deepest distress it was British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. It was during World War II. Bombs were falling on London, England. Nazi troops had conquered Austria, Czechoslovakia, France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, and were moving into Russia. Most of Europe was in the grasp of tyranny, and England was to be the next victim. In that dangerous hour, when the hearts of many were failing, Churchill spoke:

“Do not let us speak of darker days; let us speak rather of sterner days. These are not dark days: these are great days—the greatest days our country has ever lived; and we must all thank God that we have been allowed, each of us according to our position in life, to play a part in making these days memorable in the history of our race.” (Address at Harrow School, England, 29 October 1941.)

A year earlier, following the terrible military disaster at Dunkirk, France, when Britain tried to invade Europe and beat back the enemy, many prophets of doom foretold the end of Britain. But in that dark and solemn hour this remarkable man, Churchill, said, and I heard him say these words as they were broadcast to the world: “We shall not weaken or fail … we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.” (Speech in British Parliament, London, England, 4 June 1940.)

It was this kind of talk, which saw victory distantly through the dark clouds of war, and not the critical faultfinding of pessimists, that preserved the people of Britain and saved that nation from catastrophe.

Why was President Hinckley telling us optimism saved Britian? What can we learn? And why does President Hinckley keep referring to them as prophets of doom and gloom?

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82620aRCRD

President Monson recently spoke of Gratitude, but this isn't new from him. He seems to be going to a more basic message. Maybe the words of President Hunter and Hinckley were too much for us. In 1992, An Attitude of Gratitude

This is a wonderful time to be living here on earth. Our opportunities are limitless. While there are some things wrong in the world today, there are many things right, such as teachers who teach, ministers who minister, marriages that make it, parents who sacrifice, and friends who help.

We can lift ourselves, and others as well, when we refuse to remain in the realm of negative thought and cultivate within our hearts an attitude of gratitude. If ingratitude be numbered among the serious sins, then gratitude takes its place among the noblest of virtues.

The essence of this message was repeated in 2005, in First Presidency Message The Profound Power of Gratitude. The message was repeated for at least the third time this last general conference:

We can lift ourselves, and others as well, when we refuse to remain in the realm of negative thought and cultivate within our hearts an attitude of gratitude,"

Here negative thought and gratitude are linked as opposites.

I'll conclude by covering the wise words of Prophet Benson:

I testify to you that God’s hand has been in our destiny. I testify that freedom as we know it today is being threatened as never before in our history. I further witness that this land—the Americas—must be protected, its Constitution upheld, for this is a land foreordained to be the Zion of our God. He expects us as members of the Church and bearers of His priesthood to do all we can to preserve our liberty.

How does being a prophet of impending doom, not only doubting the possibility of recovery but preaching this time it is not, and posting nothing but pessimistic indicators help to preserve liberty? It doesn't. It assists the devils cause by influencing others to give up optimism and trade it in for the devil's pessimism. He said we couldn't and would not work. Christ said it will.

Optimism is a wonderful tool and a blessing. Maybe it is all we need to save the constitution. Pessimism scares ous from reaching their full potential. It keep us from helping others. symbolically, it leads us to bury our slippery gold inside the earth, where it does nothing to better our situation or help mankind improve. Pessimism buries our talents inside and keeps us from making the most of the gifts God has given us.

This is the greatest nation on earth and it will not fail.

Carpe Diem!

Dudes!

This is the best thing ever written on this forum! But I hear multiple quoting prophets got someone kicked off of here... twice now.

OK, it's second best to this:

I think JMarsigli is clearly one of the most intelligent people on the forums.

JM For The Win, Dudes!

See you in another six months when the earth is still spinning, sun still comes up, and General Conference is still promoting optimism! Good luck to you all, and most importantly, much love!

[Jason]

This is a spinoff from another thread.

A pessimist would focus on the destruction...an optimist would focus on what happens right afterward...

I find this a false pretense, and it seems the majority of pessimism flows from this personal interpretation of 2nd coming events. We don't actually know what will happen. Revelations is highly symbolic, Daniel is "locked up" so to speak. I don't see looking at impending destruction of this nation as optimistic at all.

I'll offer you this collection and see if you change your POV.

Howard W. Hunter on Joseph S. Smith:

The Prophet Joseph Smith faced immense difficulties in his life and paid the ultimate price for his victory. But he was victorious, and he was a happy, robust, optimistic man. Those who knew him felt his strength and courage, even in the darkest of time. He did not sag in spirits or long remain in any despondency.

He said about our time—yours and mine—that ours is the moment “upon which prophets, priests and kings [in ages past] have dwelt with peculiar delight; [all these ancient witnesses for God] have looked forward with joyful anticipation to the day in which we live; and fired with heavenly and joyful anticipations they have sung and written and prophesied of this our day. … we are the favored people that God has [chosen] to bring about the Latter-day glory” (History of the Church, 4:609–10).

The ancient prophets saw us as “favored people” upon whom God would shower his full and complete latter-day glory, and I testify that is our destiny. What a privilege! What an honor! What a responsibility! And what joy! We have every reason to give thanks for the quality of our lives and the promises we have been given.

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82620aRCRD

Is it possible we're too negative on the Savior's work then? What are all these prophets seeing that is so wonderful? Maybe the Lord's work is more beautiful than we could ever imagine. I'm sure you're skeptical, so read on.

Harold B. Lee, copied from earlier here:

"It is so easy to clamber onto the bandwagon and to join the extremists in condemnation, little realizing that when they commit their actions, they are not just tearing down a man; they are tearing down a nation, and they are striking at the underpinnings of one of the greatest of all the nations of all the world—a nation that was founded upon an inspired declaration we call the Constitution of the United States."

". . . We should not be concerned about finding out what is wrong with America, but we should be finding what is right about America and should be speaking optimistically and enthusiastically about America." (Ye Are the Light of the World 341-42)

"We are living in a time of great crisis. The country is torn with scandal and with criticism, with faultfinding and condemnation. There are those who have downgraded the image of this nation as probably never before in the history of the country. It is so easy to clamber onto the bandwagon and to join the extremists in condemnation, little realizing that when they commit their actions, they are not just tearing down a man; they are tearing down a nation, and they are striking at the underpinnings of one of the greatest of all the nations of all the world—a nation that was founded upon an inspired declaration we call the Constitution of the United States. The Lord said it was written by men whom He raised up for that very purpose, and that Constitution stands today as a model to all nations to pattern their lives" (Ye Are the Light of the World 340)

"I plead with you not to preach pessimism. Preach that this is the greatest country in all the world. This is the favored land. This is the land of our forefathers. It is the nation that will stand despite whatever trials or crises it may yet have to pass through." (Ye Are the Light of the World 350-51)

Are we looking at impending national doom (with optimism), or should we look to constantly oppose the constant forces of hell and earth against the US, and seek to always restore the nation? Are we supposed to be optimistic about it's doom and what comes after? Or that it will not fail as has been prophesied?

Moving forward to Howard W. Hunter:

I hope you won’t believe all the world’s difficulties have been wedged into your decade. I reassure you that things have been worse and they will always get better—especially when we live the gospel of Jesus Christ and give it a chance to flourish in our lives...

I promise you in the name of the Lord, whose servant I am, that God will always protect and care for his people. We will have our difficulties the way every generation and people have had difficulties. Your life in the 1990s is no different than any young person’s life has been in any age of time. But with the gospel of Jesus Christ you have every hope, promise, and reassurance. The Lord has power over his Saints and will always prepare places of peace, defense and safety for his people. The prophet Ether taught anciently (and he knew something about troubles): “Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God” (Ether 12:4).

President Hinckley

What I am suggesting is that each of us turn from the negativism that spreads through our society and look for the remarkable good among those with whom we associate, that we speak of one another’s virtues more than we speak of one another’s faults, that optimism replace pessimism, that our faith exceed our fears. When I was a young man and was inclined to speak critically of people or events, my father would say: “Pessimists do not contribute, unbelievers do not create, doubters do not achieve.”

How do we save a nation while looking for it [with optimism] to fail?

Looking at the dark side of things always leads to a spirit of pessimism which so often leads to defeat. If ever there was a man who gave encouragement to a nation in its time of deepest distress it was British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. It was during World War II. Bombs were falling on London, England. Nazi troops had conquered Austria, Czechoslovakia, France, Belgium, Holland, Norway, and were moving into Russia. Most of Europe was in the grasp of tyranny, and England was to be the next victim. In that dangerous hour, when the hearts of many were failing, Churchill spoke:

“Do not let us speak of darker days; let us speak rather of sterner days. These are not dark days: these are great days—the greatest days our country has ever lived; and we must all thank God that we have been allowed, each of us according to our position in life, to play a part in making these days memorable in the history of our race.” (Address at Harrow School, England, 29 October 1941.)

A year earlier, following the terrible military disaster at Dunkirk, France, when Britain tried to invade Europe and beat back the enemy, many prophets of doom foretold the end of Britain. But in that dark and solemn hour this remarkable man, Churchill, said, and I heard him say these words as they were broadcast to the world: “We shall not weaken or fail … we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.” (Speech in British Parliament, London, England, 4 June 1940.)

It was this kind of talk, which saw victory distantly through the dark clouds of war, and not the critical faultfinding of pessimists, that preserved the people of Britain and saved that nation from catastrophe.

Why was President Hinckley telling us optimism saved Britian? What can we learn? And why does President Hinckley keep referring to them as prophets of doom and gloom?

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82620aRCRD

President Monson recently spoke of Gratitude, but this isn't new from him. He seems to be going to a more basic message. Maybe the words of President Hunter and Hinckley were too much for us. In 1992, An Attitude of Gratitude

This is a wonderful time to be living here on earth. Our opportunities are limitless. While there are some things wrong in the world today, there are many things right, such as teachers who teach, ministers who minister, marriages that make it, parents who sacrifice, and friends who help.

We can lift ourselves, and others as well, when we refuse to remain in the realm of negative thought and cultivate within our hearts an attitude of gratitude. If ingratitude be numbered among the serious sins, then gratitude takes its place among the noblest of virtues.

The essence of this message was repeated in 2005, in First Presidency Message The Profound Power of Gratitude. The message was repeated for at least the third time this last general conference:

We can lift ourselves, and others as well, when we refuse to remain in the realm of negative thought and cultivate within our hearts an attitude of gratitude,"

Here negative thought and gratitude are linked as opposites.

I'll conclude by covering the wise words of Prophet Benson:

I testify to you that God’s hand has been in our destiny. I testify that freedom as we know it today is being threatened as never before in our history. I further witness that this land—the Americas—must be protected, its Constitution upheld, for this is a land foreordained to be the Zion of our God. He expects us as members of the Church and bearers of His priesthood to do all we can to preserve our liberty.

How does being a prophet of impending doom, not only doubting the possibility of recovery but preaching this time it is not, and posting nothing but pessimistic indicators help to preserve liberty? It doesn't. It assists the devils cause by influencing others to give up optimism and trade it in for the devil's pessimism. He said we couldn't and would not work. Christ said it will.

Optimism is a wonderful tool and a blessing. Maybe it is all we need to save the constitution. Pessimism scares ous from reaching their full potential. It keep us from helping others. symbolically, it leads us to bury our slippery gold inside the earth, where it does nothing to better our situation or help mankind improve. Pessimism buries our talents inside and keeps us from making the most of the gifts God has given us.

This is the greatest nation on earth and it will not fail.

Carpe Diem!

Dudes!

This is the best thing ever written on this forum! But I hear multiple quoting prophets got someone kicked off of here... twice now.

OK, it's second best to this:

I think JMarsigli is clearly one of the most intelligent people on the forums.

JM For The Win, Dudes!

See you in another six months when the earth is still spinning, sun still comes up, and General Conference is still promoting optimism! Good luck to you all, and most importantly, much love!

LOL....maybe you'll follow her example!

[John Locke]

someone is so optimistic they brought a thread back from the dead....

[Jason]

But, I'm getting ahead of myself- You, I and everyone else should remember this one fact - this one fact that will help us all remain optimistic:

Original_Intent wrote:
I think JMarsigli is clearly one of the most intelligent people on the forums

However, you have to remember that that opinion was expressed by one of the most foolish people on the forums (at least according to one of the most intelligent people on the forums) so we get into a bit of a catch-22. The fact that I would also make a lousy bishop, I think, really destroys any credibility that I have, so anything I have said, especially regarding anyone's intelligence, should be disregarded.

[Squally]

1984Orwellherenow-your screen name seems very pessimistic. :-B

And for all we know you are jmarsigli coming back from the dead to resurrect your old threads...... =))

[Jason]

1984Orwellherenow-your screen name seems very pessimistic. :-B

And for all we know you are jmarsigli coming back from the dead to resurrect your old threads...... =))

LOL....starting to wonder that myself!

[1984Orwellherenow]

1984Orwellherenow-your screen name seems very pessimistic. :-B

And for all we know you are jmarsigli coming back from the dead to resurrect your old threads...... =))

LOL....starting to wonder that myself!

Dudes!

This is the best thing ever written on this forum! But I hear multiple quoting prophets got someone kicked off of here... twice now.

OK, it's second best to this:

I think JMarsigli is clearly one of the most intelligent people on the forums.

JM For The Win, Dudes!

See you in another six months when the earth is still spinning, sun still comes up, and General Conference is still promoting optimism! Good luck to you all, and most importantly, much love!

No way, dudes.

[Jason]

1984Orwellherenow-your screen name seems very pessimistic. :-B

And for all we know you are jmarsigli coming back from the dead to resurrect your old threads...... =))

LOL....starting to wonder that myself!

Dudes!

This is the best thing ever written on this forum! But I hear multiple quoting prophets got someone kicked off of here... twice now.

OK, it's second best to this:

I think JMarsigli is clearly one of the most intelligent people on the forums.

JM For The Win, Dudes!

See you in another six months when the earth is still spinning, sun still comes up, and General Conference is still promoting optimism! Good luck to you all, and most importantly, much love!

No way, dudes.

How's the banking gig going?