A discourse on AOA

[NoGreaterLove]

(my thoughts are in ())
CHAPTER 41

THE COMING OF THE LORD

The Council at Adam-Ondi-Ahman.

Daniel had opened to his vision the prophetic history of nations from his time to the end of the world. He saw the ten kingdoms that should rise out of the Roman Empire, and, later, another kingdom described as a little horn with "eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things" in blasphemy against the Most High. Afterwards Daniel saw the time when the Lord was given power over his saints, and came to take judgment upon the world. Of this eventful scene the following is written:

I beheld, till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of Days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

And a fiery stream issued and came forth from before him; thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

I beheld then, because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake; I beheld, even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

As concerning the rest of the beasts (nations), they had their dominion taken away; yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (did he just say that!) (those nations are not destroyed when the Ancient of Days came and the books were opened?) (those nations are not destroyed when the ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him at AOA?)

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him near before him.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations,and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. * * *

But the saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even forever and ever.

Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet.

And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.—Daniel 7:9-22. (notice the saints have possession of the kingdom, yet nations still exist that have not been conquered yet)

With the explanation which has come to the Church by revelation, this vision is made clear. Without that knowledge we would be like the rest of the world, sitting in complete ignorance in relation to this wonderful and eventful prophecy. We have been informed that the place where the Ancient of Days shall sit is Adam-ondi-Ahman, in Missouri. At this place Adam dwelt after he was driven from the Garden of Eden. Here, three years before his death, he called his posterity together, those who were righteous, and blessed them. "And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel. In fulfillment of this scene in Daniel's vision, here, once again, Adam—the Ancient of Days—shall come to visit his people at a time when the judgment shall sit, and Christ shall come and receive dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, which shall not pass away, and "all people, nations, and languages, shall serve him."

Why will the Ancient of Days, who is Michael the archangel or Adam the oldest of all, come to visit his people? Who are the people to be thus honored by this visit? Moreover, why will the Son of God come at this time to Adam to receive a kingdom and to sit in judgment? These are all very pertinent questions which could not be successfully answered had not the Lord revealed the answers to the Prophet Joseph Smith. The explanation coming from him by revelation, is as follows:

Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of Days; he means the oldest man, our father Adam, Michael; he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him (Adam) and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family.—Hist. of the Church 3:386-7.

A Gathering of the Righteous. This gathering or the children of Adam, where the thousands, and the tens of thousands are assembled in the judgment, will be one of the greatest events this troubled earth has ever seen. At this conference, or council, all who have held keys of dispensations will render a report of their stewardship. Adam will do likewise, and then he will surrender to Christ all authority. Then Adam will be confirmed in his calling as the prince over his posterity and will be officially installed and crowned eternally in this presiding calling. Then Christ will be received as King of kings, and Lord of lords. We do not know how long a time this gathering will be in session, or how many sessions may be held at this grand council. It is sufficient to know that it is a gathering of the Priesthood of God from the beginning of this earth down to the present, in which reports will be made and all who have been given dispensations (talents) will declare their keys and ministry and make report of their stewardship according to the parable. Judgment will be rendered unto them for this is a gathering of the righteous, those who have held and who hold keys of authority in the Kingdom of God upon this earth. It is not to be the judgment of the wicked. When all things are prepared and every key and power set in order with a full and perfect report of each man's stewardship, then Christ will receive these reports and be installed as rightful Ruler of this earth. At this grand council he will take his place by the united voice of the thousands who by right of Priesthood are there assembled. This will precede the great day of destruction of the wicked and will be the preparation for the Millennial Reign.

The Earth to be Cleansed.

Following this grand council there shall come upon the earth great changes. In the restoration, spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets since the world began, the earth is to be renewed and cleansed from all unrighteousness. Isaiah predicted this, and said there should come new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. In that day all enmity and evil are to cease and the nations are to be swallowed up as a part of the kingdom of Jesus Christ, after they have been cleansed of their wicked inhabitants as proclaimed in the Holy Scriptures. In the Doctrine and Covenants we are given additional light upon this wonderful changed condition. The Lord said:

And prepare for the revelation which is to come, when the veil of the governing of my temple, in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh shall see me together.

And every corruptible thing, both of man, or of the beast of the field, or of the fowls of the heavens, or of the fish of the sea, that dwells upon all the face of the earth, shall be consumed;

And also that of element shall melt with fervent heat; and all things shall become new, that my knowledge and glory may dwell upon all the earth.

And in that day the enmity of man, and the enmity of beasts, yea, the enmity of all flesh, shall cease from before my face.

And in that day whatsoever any man shall ask, it shall be given unto him.

And in that day Satan shall not have power to tempt any man.

And there shall be no sorrow because there is no death.

In that day an infant shall not die until he is old; and his life shall be as the age of a tree.

And when he dies he shall not sleep, that is to say in the earth, but shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and shall be caught up, and his rest shall be glorious.—D. and C. 101:23-31.

Wickedness Shall Not Stand.

The day and the hour of his coming no man knows, neither the angels in heaven, but he will come when the vast majority of mankind are the least prepared for it, and when they are denying his power, saying that he delayeth his coming. It will be a time similar in all respects to the days of Noah, when the great flood swept over the earth. We are informed that it will be in a day when knowledge is increased (Daniel), but also a day when men will be "ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (Paul).

When Christ took his departure from his disciples and ascended into heaven, two witnesses stood by in white apparel, who said to the disciples: "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

John was informed that when Christ should come again it would be to reign upon the earth for one thousand years. This is the teaching in the Bible. To Joseph Smith the Lord said:

For I will reveal myself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the hosts thereof, and dwell in righteousness with men on earth a thousand years, and the wicked shall not stand. * * *

And again, verily, verily, I say unto you that when the thousand years are ended, and men again begin to deny their God, then will I spare the earth but for a little season.—D. and C. 29:11, 22.

Malachi speaks of the day of the coming of the Lord and declares that it shall burn as an oven and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: "and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." In this manner have all the prophets spoken. Wickedness must come to an end, for it would be inconsistent to have Satan loose seeking to regain his lost power and contending with men, as he has done for six thousand years.

During the earth's Sabbath, the seventh thousand years, which is set apart as the reign of peace and righteousness, Christ will rule undisturbed by any wicked element or influence from the adversary of truth and righteousness. Not only will the earth be cleansed from all wickedness during this reign of peace, but the Church, or kingdom of God now known as the Church, will be cleansed also. The Lord declared it in the following words. "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity."

The World Ripening in Iniquity.

We are informed that the world is getting ripe in iniquity and ready for the cleansing. When the Lord sent the flood it was because "the earth was corrupt before God, and it was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its way upon the earth." A great many people seem to believe that the world is getting better, that mankind is becoming more righteous all the time because of our advanced civilization, but this is not the truth. We know that the coming of our Lord is near, but we have been assured that he will not come until the cup of iniquity is full. He will not come until the time for vengeance has arrived, and that time will not come until flesh has again corrupted its was upon the earth. It is a mistake to think that the righteousness of the inhabitants of the earth will usher in the Millennium. Isaiah speaks of Christ coming in the day of vengeance. This vengeance, of course, is to be against those who are prepared in iniquity for this judgment. This warning has gone forth in this dispensation to all the world.

For the hour is nigh and the day soon at hand when the earth is ripe; and all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that wickedness shall not be upon the earth.

For the hour is nigh, and that which was spoken by mine apostles must be fulfilled; for as they spoke so shall it come to pass; * * *

And again, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments and none else.—D. and C. 29:9-12. See Matt. 19:28-29.

Vengeance Upon the Wicked. All this judgment and change which will bring to pass the destruction of the wicked, will come, the Lord has said, "when the cup of the wrath of mine indignation is full." Moreover, in this same revelation given to the Church, the Lord continues:

But, behold, I say unto you that before this great day shall come the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall be turned into blood, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and there shall be greater signs in heaven above and in the earth beneath;

And there shall be weeping and wailing among the hosts of men;

And there shall be a great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth.

And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up.—D. and C. 29:20

In another revelation it is written:

And their testimony (i.e. the testimony of the Elders of the Church) shall also go forth unto the condemnation of this generation if they harden their hearts against them;

For a desolating scourge shall go forth among the inhabitants of the earth, and shall continue to be poured out from time to time, if they repent not, until the earth is empty, and the inhabitants thereof are consumed away and utterly destroyed by the brightness of my coming.—D. and C. 5:19.

A Warning to the World. In this manner the Lord, all down the ages, has cried with a warning voice, through his prophets, to the inhabitants of the earth dwelling in this present generation. Isaiah said that because of the rebellion of the people in the last days—

The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.

The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate; therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.—Isaiah 24:3-6.

Are we not too much inclined to blame the generations that are past for the breaking of the new and everlasting covenant, and to think it is because of the great apostasy which followed the ministry of the Apostles in primitive times, that these troubles are coming upon the earth? Perhaps we should wake up to the realization that it is because of the breaking of covenants, especially the new and everlasting covenant, which is the fulness of the Gospel as it has been revealed, that the world is to be consumed by fire and few men left. Since this punishment is to come at the time of the cleansing of the earth when Christ comes again, should not Latter-day Saints take heed unto themselves? We have been given the new and everlasting covenant, and many among us have broken it, and many are now breaking it; therefore all who are guilty of this offense will aid in bringing to pass this destruction in which they will find themselves swept from the earth when the great and dreadful day of the Lord shall come.

The Day of the Lord Near.

"Hearken ye, for behold, the great day of the Lord is nigh at hand." This warning came to the Church one hundred years ago, and has been repeated many times since in the revelations to the Church. Elijah, when he came in April, 1836, declared that this great day was near even at our doors. If it was near our doors in 1836, it is one hundred years nearer fulfilment today. This following warning recorded in the Gospel of Luke, and coming from our Lord, was intended for the inhabitants of the earth of this present day:

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.—Luke 21:34-36.

The commandment came to the members of the Church in January, 1831: "But, verily I say unto you that in time ye shall have no king nor ruler, for I will be your king and watch over you." This will be when he descends in the clouds of heaven in power and glory. Let all people know that the parable of the fig tree is being fulfilled today. The tree puts forth its leaves and the summer is nigh. We are told that when we see these things we may know that in this generation, when these things take place, all that has been said concerning the coming of Christ will be fulfilled. "Verily, I say unto you, this generation, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled. Although the days will come, that heaven and earth shall pass away; yet my words shall not pass away, but all shall be fulfilled."—P. of G. P. pp. 44-45.

Notwithstanding all the warnings that have been given, and the plainness of the message which has come to us, the world will go on about its business, paying little heed, until that day shall be upon them. Then shall there be great wailing as there was at the destruction among the Nephites at the crucifixion of our Savior.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark.

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Next 4


(Joseph Fielding Smith, The Progress of Man [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1964], 488 - 489.)

[NoGreaterLove]

That is why I totally ignore the year 2000 as being any kind of guide whatsoever as to where we are at in the seasons. We have a long way to go. IMO the most important thing we as saints should be concerned about is AOA. That is our judgement day, the day when our books are opened, the day when we either cut it or do not. Upon my house shall it begin.

[BlueSky]

I read a good friend's PB with them once and it told her she would be at AOA. I told my husband about it and he said basically, most people's say that. Like it was no big deal. He's been on a mission and I guess they shared their PBs sometimes.

[NoGreaterLove]

From what I have posted it seems both sides of the veil will attend this meeting. A great resurrection takes place at that time as the books are opened and the saints are judged.
To attend this meeting is to have exaltation.

[friendsofthe]

Working lots of hours and so I'll just post something from my blog that I hope will contribute to something to the subject of Daniel chap. 7.

Daniel Chapter 7 and the Little Horn

Without going into too great of depth I want to blog a bit about chapter 7 of Daniel, just enough so that those of you who are unfamiliar with the little horn will have a foundation for understanding past and future blogs.
In the beginning of the chapter we learn about four beasts. The fourth beast is the one we are concerned about here. It represented the Roman Empire as explained by Orson Pratt:

“We read that the four beasts, representing the powers of the earth, will exist at the time of the coming of the Ancient of Days. And that the fourth beast, represented by the Roman Empire and the kingdoms that have grown out of it, will be "slain and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame." Here then we can read the destiny of that portion of the inhabitants of the earth constituting the fourth beast: or, in other words, the destiny of the kingdoms of Europe, who were to arise and grow out of that fourth power”. (Journal of Discourses, vol. 18, p. 339)

(Note: The phrase "slain and his body destroyed and given to the burning flame” applies equally to America, for Orson Pratt also said “Not only the kingdoms and governments of Europe, and the western portion of Asia are to be thus visited, but also those who have grown out of these kingdoms, and that have emigrated to this western hemisphere, and elsewhere. For instance, this great republic must pass away in the manner indicated unless the people repent”. (ibid) It appears that America will also meet her demise by being "given to the burning flame".)

That’s simple enough. We learn that “the fourth beast” is “represented by the Roman Empire and the kingdoms that have grown out of it”. So what kingdoms grow out of the Roman Empire? He tells us “the kingdoms of Europe” but we already knew that because we all learned that in school.

In Daniels vision these “kingdoms” are represented by horns. We see the same thing in Revelation where John uses the same symbolism. A horn = a nation or kingdom. And so these nations of Europe who descended from the Roman Empire are each represented by a horn in Daniel’s vision. Incidentally, a beast is often a coalition of nations, usually represented as having a certain number of horns or members of the coalition.

In verse 8 Daniel says “I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots”.

This “little horn” (Baby horn) or nation comes up from “among them”. Are you aware of a new nation that sprang from “among” the nations of Europe? Yes you say, America, and your right. This nation (America) would “plucked up by the roots” “three of the first horns”. Verse 20 speaks of “the other (horn) which came up, and before whom three fell”. So America would exercise power over three of the original horns or nations of Europe. This of course was fulfilled when America won it’s independence from the powers of Europe in our revolutionary war.

You may remember from your history classes that along the Atlantic coast of America we had the French in the north, the Spanish in the south and the British in between. All three of these nations were vying for power and influence in the new world. However the American colonist were mercilessly able to overcome these three nations and win independence.

We are told in verse 21 that, “the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them”. It was in America that the saints of this last dispensation have suffered most grievously and have been “prevailed against” and “cast out”. (Isaiah. 66:5) As in being persecuted and literally driven out from among the eastern states where the church was founded. Even if we didn’t know about the “little horn” subduing the “three kings” we would be forced to conclude that we are talking about America here. No other nation could qualify as the nation that “made war with the saints, and prevailed against them”. No other nation even comes close.

This mode of prevailing continues on for quite a long time or as it says in verse 22 “Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High“. All of this “prevailing” culminates with the 42 months. At that time the power and dominance of the little horn is sharply ramped up. We read in verse 25:

(Note: To understand how this prevailing in our day is manifest more in terms of an attack on our freedom and the constitution please read “The Little Horn” blog with special attention to Joseph Fielding Smiths statement about the little horn. He either agrees with this interpretation or his words make no sense.)

“And he (the little horn) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time“.

We get the 42 months from the last phrase “and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time“. It is decoded thusly, “a time” = 1 year, “times” = 2 years and “the dividing of time” = ½ year. So 1+2+½ = 3 ½ years or 42 months.

So what is it that happens at the end of the 42 months? The answer to that question in given in verses 21-22 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints”.

In verse nine above, Daniel states “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit”. This actually gives us the sequence, 1- “thrones… cast down” and 2- “Ancient of days did sit”.

Verses 13-14 give a good summation of what the appearance of the “Ancient of days” is all about. We read:
13 “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 “And there was given him (Christ) dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed“.

This obviously speaks about Christ millennial kingdom “that which shall not be destroyed” and it is one of the appearances of the Lord that constitute the Second Coming.

Joseph Fielding Smiths said of this event:
This council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman is to be of the greatest importance to this world. At that time there will be a transfer of authority from the usurper and imposter, Lucifer, to the rightful King, Jesus Christ. Judgment will be set and all who have held keys will make their reports and deliver their stewardships, as they shall be required. Adam will direct this judgment, and then he will make his report, as the one holding the keys of this earth, to his Superior Officer, Jesus Christ. Our Lord will then assume the reigns of government; directions will be given to the Priesthood; and He, whose right it is to rule, will be installed officially by the voice of the Priesthood there assembled. (The Way to Perfection, 1943, pp. 788-91.)

If this appearance of Christ at Adam-Ondi-Ahman qualifies as one of the appearances that constitute the Second Coming, and I don’t think we can contend otherwise, since it initiates the millennium, then what the Prophet Joseph Smiths said about the rainbow and the Lords coming applies. We will look at two versions of this statement. He said:

Statement one
“I have asked of the Lord concerning His coming; and while asking the Lord, He gave a sign and said, "In the days of Noah I set a bow in the heavens as a sign and token that in any year that the bow should be seen the Lord would not come; but there should be seed time and harvest during that year; but whenever you see the bow withdrawn, it shall be a token that there shall be famine, pestilence, and great distress among the nations, and that the coming of the Messiah is not far distant“.(Smith, Joseph. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Joseph F. Smith,1976., pp. 340-41)

Statement two
“While inquiring of the Lord concerning the end of time, it was made known to me by the Holy Spirit that there should be prosperity, seed time, and harvest every year in which the rainbow was seen. For to that was Noah referred as a surety on this subject. But in the year when the bow was not to be seen would commence desolation, calamity, and distress among the nations, without seed time or harvest.” (Kent P. Jackson, comp. and ed., Joseph Smith's Commentary on the Bible [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1994], 112.)

What do we learn from these two statements?
1- We learn from the first statement that “in any year that the bow should be seen the Lord would not come”, so we conclude that in a year with no rainbow the Lord will come.
2- We learn that “in the year when the bow was not to be seen” which is the year when the Lord will come “would commence desolation, calamity, and distress among the nations” or “famine, pestilence, and great distress among the nations“.
3- We learn that these calamities announce his appearance because after they happen “the coming of the Messiah is not far distant”. So they happen earlier in that year.
4- We learn that this will be a year “without seed time or harvest”. So something will happen to prevent or interfere with the planting season. With no planting or seed time there can be no harvest.

Now let’s go to a statement from the Prophet Joseph Smith that will help us see the relationship of the meeting at Adam-Ondi-Ahman with the prophecy on the rainbow. He said:
“When wars come, we shall have to flee to Zion. The cry is to make haste. The last revelation says, Ye shall not have time to have gone over the earth, until these things come. It will come as did the cholera, war, fires, and earthquakes; one pestilence after another, until the Ancient of Days comes, then judgment will be given to the Saints”. (1839-July-DHC 3:385-391)

The parallels between the prophecy on the rainbow and Joseph Smith’s statement above are Striking. They both conclude with the appearance of the Lord after a series of catastrophic events. If one reads carefully and ponders long enough, the conclusion that the prophecy on the rainbow applies to Christ’s appearance at Adam-Ondi-Ahman is inescapable.

Note that Joseph Smith says above that “When wars come… Ye shall not have time to have gone over the earth“. So this appearance of the Ancient of Days happens before the gospel is preached to “every nation, kingdom, tongue and people”. It is prefatory to his appearing at Jerusalem and his coming in his glory.
For the rest of the story, please read the next blog!

[NoGreaterLove]

Thanks Friends
Sounds good so far. I like the way you laid it out.

[Carlos]

Here are my cogitations on Dan 7. You made me think...
It fits well with my timeline, which is that the sixth seal has come and gone, we are well into the 7th seal, the witness event has been playing out since the restoration, and that the death and resurrection of the witnesses represents the cleansing of America.

4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it. This is the Babylonian kingdom which had conquered Israel, and in which Daniel lived.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. This is the Macedonian kingdom which also conquered Israel.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. This is a representation of the Roman empire which subdued Israel and ruled over the Christian saints after the time if Christ.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. This represents the European empires which grew out of the Roman. These also held Christianity captive through unholy alliances and dominion.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. The little horn is the United States. The three horns before it were the French empire, British empire, and the Spanish empire. These three were uprooted from America (“before the little horn”). The “eyes of man” may imply “in God’s image” or created as a free nation, a nation which promotes agency.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down This refers to the cleansing of America. See v. 21,22, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. This is the Adam Ondi Aman event which occurs at the time the New Jerusalem is being established.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. The voice of great words form the little horn precipitates the fall of the beast? Verse 26 say’s that the saints will wrest dominion from the horn, maybe these great words are Godly words which will precede the destruction of the 4th beast.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. Speaking of the other nations of the world.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Christ comes to rule in Glory from the New Jerusalem. A similar description is in Rev 11 after the witness’ death and resurrection. “15 The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”
15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me.
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. Once again, speaking of European kingdoms and the US. The eyes and mouth of the little horn may symbolize it’s ability to act independently from the fourth beast.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints (persecution, martyrdom of Joseph Smith, restricting the dominion of church in government affairs in Utah, etc), and prevailed against them; The church is completely subservient to the US government in temporal affairs.
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. After the cleansing and AOA, the church will have the right to spiritual and secular rule.
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. The time spoken of here represents 3 and ½ times, or 3 ½ years, or 42 months, or 1260 days. This could represent broken fulfillment, i.e. half of seven. A time of good and evil, symbolized by the combination of God’s number 7 and Satan’s number 6. ( 6x7=42) It is interesting to note that this is the same time allotted to the testimony of the 2 witnesses in Rev. 11. The saints will be “[worn] out” by the horn the same amount of time the witnesses give their testimony "clothed in sackcloth". Note that this time appears not to be literal (1260 days), but symbolic, since the US government has had dominion over the church for ~180 years now.
26 But the judgment shall sit (The AOA council. See v. 10), and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. The AOA council/New Jerusalem will wrest dominion from the little horn. When worldly dominion is destroyed, freedom prevails? Cleansed America is restored constitutionally?
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him. Hooray!

[NoGreaterLove]

Carlos I like your insight on these scriptures.
I think where you and I must differ on this one is when AOA happens. I believe Daniel 7, Rev 7 and Rev 14 are talking about AOA. Rev 7 happens at the end of the sixth seal following the destruction listed in the chap 6.
The quotes I posted on the 7th seal thread show the prophets believed AOA will be the transition from the sixth to the seventh and the beginning of Christs reign.

I know it is a hard concept to grasp when I state that many of the scriptures prophesying of Christ coming are really talking about him coming to AOA. That is because the Church was not here until the early 1800's and AOA was not even thought of. So the religions of the world attributed all of he references of his coming to the Mount of Olive appearance. It has been difficult for us as Saints to realize that Christ's throne will be in NJ and AOA is the great event most prophesied of. That is the marriage spoken of between Christ and his Church. The reference to the Bridegroom and the marriage are talking about the actual marriage between Him and the Church at AOA.
We as members need to get away from the old sectarian notions and add modern revelation into the mix with AOA and NJ as the throne of Christ.
A great judgement occurs at AOA for the saints. The books are opened and ten thousands times ten thousands will attend. Christ, Adam, all of the prophets and apostles of old, will be there. This is when Christ takes over as the King of Kings. But just like what you quoted above, the horn is destroyed but the beast and wicked nations are still active. There demise comes when he comes to the Mount of Olives with all of the saints who have been lifted up to the cloud to join him in his decent upon the Mount. We are already His, we have his name upon us, we have already been judged. It happened at AOA at conference when the NJ temple was completed and the reigns turned over to Christ and he made us rulers with him over the earth as kings and queens, priest and priestesses.

You just have to let go of the old theories that were brought forward from the Catholic and prodestant churches that still prevail in our church today. You have to start fresh with NJ being the most important place on earth, the Garden of Eden, the Throne or God, the place where the NJ will be and the City of Enoch next to it.

[pjbrownie]

I have a hard time deciphering who the little horn represents. I know who it represented anciently--it is the Byzantine empire with its Papal alliance that sets up a blasphemous empire that changes the times and exalt itself to heaven. It is the finality of the Great Apostasy, the Dark Ages, that lasts for 1260 years. This is the historical representation of the Little Horn.

In Daniel, I read everything in circumference to the great statue with the gold head. That statue continues until it has the iron and miry clay toes which represents Europe, the little horn. In 1830, 1260 years (representing the darkness of Priesthood) after the final purge of non-Roman Catholic Christianity from Europe, the final toe kingdom is formed as a political entity (Greece) and the rock cut out of the mountains without hands is formed. It now currently rolling forward but has yet to smash the image. This means that the European Empire and it's American counterpart are most likely the Little Horn still continuing until the Ancient of Days takes away its power.

There also maybe a future type to the historical understanding, from the time of 1830 you have the Gold head representing England and America (the eagle), the kingdom of silver being the kingdom of czarist Russia (the bear), brass being Germany (the leopard), and Iron being the Cold War alliances of the Nato and the Warsaw Pact, and ten toes being the G-10, the UN, or something similar.

Look to a kingdom among the G-10 to rise up as a future type to the ancient little horn that will subdue three, then ten (a similar to Justinian). This maybe also be reference to the Beast of revelation who subdues Babylon. I believe this to be Gog, or Russia. This will make war with the Saints (again as it did in the past after Christ's death), will probably survive for 3.5 years within a bloody conflict in America before it is vanquished at AOA.

[NoGreaterLove]

I have a hard time deciphering who the little horn represents.

You and me both. One thing we do know is it is around until AOA and persecutes he Saints using secret combinations.
I think this relates to it:

(Doctrine and Covenants 38:13.)

13 And now I show unto you a mystery, a thing which is had in secret chambers, to bring to pass even your destruction in process of time, and ye knew it not;

(Doctrine and Covenants 38:28-31.)

28 And again, I say unto you that the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives.

29 Ye hear of wars in far countries, and you say that there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own land.

30 I tell you these things because of your prayers; wherefore, treasure up wisdom in your bosoms, lest the wickedness of men reveal these things unto you by their wickedness, in a manner which shall speak in your ears with a voice louder than that which shall shake the earth; but if ye are prepared ye shall not fear.

31 And that ye might escape the power of the enemy, and be gathered unto me a righteous people, without spot and blameless—

[Carlos]

PJ,
What simplifies the identity of the nations represented by the beasts and the parts of Neb's statue, is the same thing which identifies the seven heads of the dragon in Rev. All these nations/empires have one thing in common; they have all sought to directly oppress the Kingdom of God. These kingdoms have been used by Satan in direct opposition to the work of God. The theme of Revelations seals is the conflict between the banished Satan and the work of God on earth. Satan's dragon/beast represents this historical conflict. The 7 historical kingdoms are Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Babylon, Macedonia, Rome, and Europe. The eighth is the US; which has oppressed God's restored kingdom. Daniel's dream only includes Babylon and subsequent kingdoms. Even though the little horn sprouts from the 4th beast, it asserts it's independence in Daniel's dream. Even so the US came from Europe and obtained independence. I feel you really have to stretch definitions to apply current geo-political circumstances as current or future fulfillment of Daniels dream.

A sticking point in your dilemma is your adherence to the idea that 1260 days (or years)/3 1/2 years/42 months MUST be literal. The number has symbolic significance and should not be wholly discarded in favor of a rigid timeline that weakens the interpretation.

[Carlos]

Carlos I like your insight on these scriptures.
I think where you and I must differ on this one is when AOA happens. I believe Daniel 7, Rev 7 and Rev 14 are talking about AOA. Rev 7 happens at the end of the sixth seal following the destruction listed in the chap 6.
The quotes I posted on the 7th seal thread show the prophets believed AOA will be the transition from the sixth to the seventh and the beginning of Christs reign.

Yes, we disagree specifically on who the 144,000 are and what they represent. Both Rev 7 and 14 represent the gospel being taken to the world through our current missionary program. This is a magnificent accomplishment for God's kingdom; dreamed of by all prophets. The scripture says, the 144,000 priesthood holders are virgins. You probably have a symbolic interpretation for that phrase, but to me it is literal. These missionaries have one mandate, "[take] the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Rev 14:6. These first 6 verses in Rev 14 are fulfilled because Christ literally stands at the head of the restored church (mount Zion) and directs his servants. A 6th seal occurrence, prior to, not initiated at, AoA. Plain and simple.

[pjbrownie]

PJ,
What simplifies the identity of the nations represented by the beasts and the parts of Neb's statue, is the same thing which identifies the seven heads of the dragon in Rev. All these nations/empires have one thing in common; they have all sought to directly oppress the Kingdom of God. These kingdoms have been used by Satan in direct opposition to the work of God. The theme of Revelations seals is the conflict between the banished Satan and the work of God on earth. Satan's dragon/beast represents this historical conflict. The 7 historical kingdoms are Egypt, Assyria, Persia, Babylon, Macedonia, Rome, and Europe. The eighth is the US; which has oppressed God's restored kingdom. Daniel's dream only includes Babylon and subsequent kingdoms. Even though the little horn sprouts from the 4th beast, it asserts it's independence in Daniel's dream. Even so the US came from Europe and obtained independence. I feel you really have to stretch definitions to apply current geo-political circumstances as current or future fulfillment of Daniels dream.

A sticking point in your dilemma is your adherence to the idea that 1260 days (or years)/3 1/2 years/42 months MUST be literal. The number has symbolic significance and should not be wholly discarded in favor of a rigid timeline that weakens the interpretation.

Where you and disagree, and it's not much of a disagreement, is the idea that America is the little horn. The Europe empire also includes America (believe it or not) since they are under the same financial scheme ruled by banks, in secret. The kingdom I look to replace this order (which represents modern Babylon in its wealth and sin), is a different kingdom.

Also, the timeline I'm not necessarily being rigid on, I just think that when a number is put into the scriptures that it probably does correlate in some way. I chastise people for being too numbers based so your worrying about my interpretation is fair.

I also did stretch the definition. I admit it's a speculation, but since I believe in multiple interpretations and look at historical fulfillments as also a type for the present, I think this is a pretty good one. Read the beast dreams again, and from the context of when the gospel was restored, they fit the one's I outlined pretty well. Britain's mascot is the lion/America's the eagle (same as Babylon), the Bear is Russia (same as Persia), the Leopard is Germany (same as Greece) and it is split into four, then two, and so the kingdom that follows is a type for Rome (the G-10, or the United Nations). If you notice, the UN uses the same symbols as Rome did, the olive branches.

Whenever I set out to interpret these passages (and they have multiple interpretations) for me the historical and the modern converge. I still see Europe/America/the UN as the current horn kingdom with one yet to come knows as the little horn.

I believe we're not going to know the full extent of Daniel until after the fact. Of all the scriptures for me it has been the most difficult to interpret.

[NoGreaterLove]

SRS
Notice my first post. Christ comes to AOA in Missouri and meets thousands upon thousands of priesthood holders including Adam. He takes over reigns of the kingdom. When he came this time, it was not the judgment of the wicked upon the earth, but the books were opened for the saints.
At this time the horn has no more power over the saints. This meeting is the preparation for the Millennium. Christ has been installed as the ruler of the earth, yet he has not destroyed the wicked yet.
AOA and the Mount of Olives are separated by the 1/2 hour of silence. Possibly 22 years.