The sign before the silence!

[NoGreaterLove]

In Revelations, Matthew, D&C and modern day revelations the prophets have spoken of a sign that is to precede the silence in heaven. My question is, has this sign happened? If not, then how could the 1/2 hour of silence have begun? Here are some quotes.

What is the "great sign"?

"The sign of the coming of the Son of Man—what is it? We do not know," answered Elder Bruce R. McConkie (Millennial Messiah, 418). When that sign appears, Joseph Smith prophesied, the world "will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 286).

In response to a report that a certain man had already seen this sign "in the clouds one morning about sunrise," the Prophet declared that it would not appear until after the calamities mentioned in Doctrine and Covenants 88:87 had occurred (History of the Church, 5:291). "When the sign appears, God will make its meaning known to the Prophet, Seer and Revelator who at that time may be at the head of the Church, and through him to His people and the world in general" (Smith and Sjodahl, Commentary, 560).
(Richard O. Cowan, Answers to Your Questions About the Doctrine and Covenants [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1996], 109.)

So what does it say in D&C 88:87?

87 For not many days hence and the earth shall tremble and reel to and fro as a drunken man; and the sun shall hide his face, and shall refuse to give light; and the moon shall be bathed in blood; and the stars shall become exceedingly angry, and shall cast themselves down as a fig that falleth from off a fig-tree.

And other testimonies of the sign:


'Notwithstanding Mr. Redding may have seen a wonderful appearance in the clouds one morning about sunrise [which is not very uncommon in the winter season], he has not seen the sign of the Son of Man, as foretold by Jesus; neither has any man, nor will any man, until after the sun shall have been darkened and the moon bathed in blood; for the Lord hath not shown me any such sign; and as the Prophet saith, so it must be—"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7). Therefore, hear this, O Earth! The Lord will not come to reign over the righteous, in this world, in 1843, nor until everything for the Bridegroom is ready' (HC 5:291)

"It may be gathered from this that when the sign appears, God will make its meaning known to the Prophet, Seer and Revelator who at that time may be at the head of the Church, and through him to His people and the world in general." (Smith and Sjodahl, DCC, p. 560.)

There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of east. (The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 286-7.)
(Roy W. Doxey, The Doctrine and Covenants and the Future [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954], 46 - 47.)



Now why would there be a sign of Christ coming if he is not coming? That is because he does come before the 1/2 hour of silence. But where did he go? Nothing is mentioned of his appearance until later after the 1/2 hour of silence?

He came to AOA and appeared to the saints gathered there. He called the 144000, received the keys of the kingdom and established his throne at the New Jerusalem.

The throne having been established and satan bound in bundles, now it is time to purify the rest of the kingdom and burn the bundles. This happens after the 1/2 hour of silence.

[AngelPalmoni]

If the sixth and seventh seals overlap, like the great earthquake prophecies suggest then everything within the drawings could fit perfectly into what were have experienced and what we have yet to experience.

www.angelpalmoni.com

[AngelPalmoni]

The millennium doesn't start when the halve out of silence is over. The halve hour of silence is the summer time... we still have to go through the winter time.

[Amore Vero]

I agree AP. When the half hour is over the major calamities & cleansing will begin, but the righteous will rejoice that they have finally started.

[pjbrownie]

The above two comments didn't deal with the substance of NGL's post. Explain how this has happened? Where do we get this overlap thing? It's not in the scriptures and I've never heard a prophet or apostle expound. Why does this overlap exist? It must be the year 2,000 thing, which is not necessary to worry about, because according to the church the 1,000 years is only an approximation of the seals.

You may say that these signs have already occurred, and indeed, many of them have. I have come to the careful conclusion that most have, with the exception of the earth reeling to and fro, the moon to blood, and sun darkened.

I also believe that while the prophet may reveal some elements of the sixth seal accomplished, such as the dreams and visions, blood, fire, and pillars of smoke, for example I think 9/11 was a fulfillment of the pillars of smoke prophecy, I look for a final declaration by the prophet of these final signs, as well as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man.

NGL is right. Many of us look forward to the seventh seal calamities, Armageddon, and the Mount of Olives--which is fine. What the're going to miss are the calamities that lead up to the cleansing of America and the restoration of Zion, the Council of Adam, and the New Jerusalem temple and visitation from the Savior at that event. And the last shall be first, and the first shall be last. This applies to the apocalypse as well. Upon my house it shall begin.

[NoGreaterLove]

I would highly recommend anyone trying to put an order on things to read a book called "Coming of the Lord" by Gerald R. Lund. He lays out the events of the last days in chronological order using the scriptures and other prophecies from the prophets and apostles. It is easy to read, well laid out and very accurate! He relies upon reliable sources and does not go off on tangents from questionable references.

1.Trials of the Saints, Cleansing of America, earthquake, sun darkened, moon to blood, stars. Sign of Son of Man.
2.Establishment of the NJ, AOA, Tranfer of Keys, Begin Millenium, Temple Built, Christ reigns on throne at NJ. Peace for Saints, satan bound in bundles , ready to be burned.
3.Silence, 144000 preach to lost tribes, Lost tribes get endowments at hands of Ephraim in the NJ
4.nations of world gather against OJ. Two prophets testify, Saints lifted up, Christ on his way, calamities unleashed
Jews accept christ, converted, Islam converted,

I would ask you guys if you would please quote some scriptures or prophetic statements to support your claims. Otherwise it appears like meaningless conjecture. I would be glad to continue to support my statements with prophetic and scriptural proof.

[Inspire]

In 3 months there will be a fullness of light reflected from the moon. However, that light will be diminished until the moon is completely shadowed by our world. Oh, and by the way, this will happen on the darkest day of the year.

[Amore Vero]

I would ask you guys if you would please quote some scriptures or prophetic statements to support your claims. Otherwise it appears like meaningless conjecture. I would be glad to continue to support my statements with prophetic and scriptural proof.

When asking for proof we must realize that 'The Spirit' is the most reliable source of information & proof a person can have, next to the Savior coming to you & explaining things. Personal revelation (spiritual oil in our lamps) just can't be used to prove anything to anyone else. Even posting tons of Prophet's quotes just gets a bunch of different interpretations & it still boils down to what the Spirit tells you the Prophet really meant.

pjbrownie,
Pres. Hinckley said that the moon has already turned to blood, but I'm sorry I don't have the reference handy, maybe someone else reading this does.

[NoGreaterLove]

When asking for proof we must realize that 'The Spirit' is the most reliable source of information & proof a person can have, next to the Savior coming to you & explaining things. Personal revelation (spiritual oil in our lamps) just can't be used to prove anything to anyone else. Even posting tons of Prophet's quotes just gets a bunch of different interpretations & it still boils down to what the Spirit tells you the Prophet really meant.

So basically you are saying to disregard the scriptures because we will all interpret them differently and they are written by prophets, and you are saying we really do not need a prophet because we can just make it on our own without the prophet to lead us.
I read your posts. You constantly say the prophet said this and the church says that, but you are unwilling to post the quotes.
You can not have it both ways. Back your statements up.

I think the reason you do not back them up is because you can not do it. A lot of the philosophies you teach are contrary to the words of the scriptures and the modern day prophets.

The Lord sent us prophets to lead and guide us for a reason.

[jonwymore]

In 3 months there will be a fullness of light reflected from the moon. However, that light will be diminished until the moon is completely shadowed by our world. Oh, and by the way, this will happen on the darkest day of the year.

Where did you hear this? Evidence?

[Henmasher]

pjbrownie,
Pres. Hinckley said that the moon has already turned to blood, but I'm sorry I don't have the reference handy, maybe someone else reading this does.

4th paragraph last sentence
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 82620aRCRD

[Henmasher]

Speaking of the prophecy of Joel is there symbolism involved? The moon shall turn to blood. Would that mean that a telestial people will turn to blood or war? Just a thought after reading some stuff.

[NoGreaterLove]

D&C 45

24 And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations;
25 But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

(so the remnant will not be gathered until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled) ( Joel 2 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.)

28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a blight shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.
30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

(The times of the Gentiles will be fulfilled in the same generation as the generation in which the gospel is brought forth)

42 And before the day of the Lord shall come, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon be turned into blood, and the stars fall from heaven.
43 And the remnant shall be gathered unto this place;

(So here we learn that Christ does not come until the remnant are gathered to Jerusalem)

44 And then they shall look for me, and, behold, I will come; and they shall see me in the clouds of heaven, clothed with power and great glory; with all the holy angels; and he that watches not for me shall be cut off.
45 But before the arm of the Lord shall fall, an angel shall sound his trump, and the saints that have slept shall come forth to meet me in the cloud.

(The destruction does not occur until after the saints are lifted up in the clouds to be with Christ) (The destruction spoken of are the trumps)

46 Wherefore, if ye have slept in peace blessed are you; for as you now behold me and know that I am, even so shall ye come unto me and your souls shall live, and your redemption shall be perfected; and the saints shall come forth from the four quarters of the earth.

(so when we are lifted up our redemption is perfected) (all the saints come from all over the earth)

47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.

(He says it again, then the destruction start) (every remaining nation in the world has gathered to fight against Jerusalem. The European nations no longer exist)

48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this amount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.


To summarize: The gospel will come forth during the same generation when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. After the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, the remnant gathers to Jerusalem. The saints are lifted up to meet Christ in the cloud. Then the destruction begins.

I have posted this scripture and I think everyone will agree with my notes on it. The lord is further explaining what he told his disciples.

"We are told in the 24th chapter of Matthew, that Jesus, on a certain occasion, taught his disciples many things concerning his gospel, the temple, the Jews, his second coming and the end of the world; and they asked him—Master, what shall be the sign of these things? The Savior answered them, but in a very brief manner. As my mind runs a little in that channel I feel disposed to read a portion of the word of the Lord unto us, which explains this matter more fully than the Savior explained it to his disciples. That portion of the word of the Lord which I shall read, is a revelation given to the Latter-day Saints, March 7, 1831. [After making this statement, Elder Woodruff read the revelation that is now section 45 in the Doctrine and Covenants.] … " “Chapter 24: Preparing for the Second Coming of Jesus Christ,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Wilford Woodruff, 250


1. We are still in the times of the Gentiles.
2. The remnant has not gathered to Jerusalem.
3. The first trump has not sounded and the saints are not lifted up to meet Christ in the cloud.
4. The trumps of destruction have not occurred.

"The Lord has designated these days in which we live as the “times of the Gentiles.” The Gentile nations are the so-called Christian nations—North and South America and the European nations from which we came. The “times of the Gentiles” refers to that period of time extending from when the gospel was restored to the world (1830) to when the gospel will again be preached to the Jews—after the Gentiles have rejected it. This is how the Lord explained it………………………………………
But to an otherwise gloomy picture there is a bright side—the coming of our Lord in all His glory. His coming will be both glorious and terrible, depending on the spiritual condition of those who remain.
One appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem here in America. In this place of refuge they will be safe from the wrath of the Lord which will be poured out without measure on all nations.
Modern revelation provides this description:
“And the glory of the Lord shall be there, and the terror of the Lord also shall be there, insomuch that the wicked will not come unto it, and it shall be called Zion.
“And it shall come to pass among the wicked, that every man that will not take his sword against his neighbor must needs flee unto Zion for safety.
“And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.” (D&C 45:67–69.)
Another appearance of the Lord will be to the Jews. To these beleaguered sons of Judah, surrounded by hostile Gentile armies, who again threaten to overrun Jerusalem, the Savior—their Messiah—will set His feet on the Mount of Olives, “and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake” (D&C 45:47–48).
: Ezra Taft Benson, “Prepare Yourself for the Great Day of the Lord,” New Era, May 1982, 44

We have a long ways to go before Christ comes to the Jews.

[SmallFarm]

In 3 months there will be a fullness of light reflected from the moon. However, that light will be diminished until the moon is completely shadowed by our world. Oh, and by the way, this will happen on the darkest day of the year.

Where did you hear this? Evidence?

I think he is talkng about the lunar eclipse which happens to fall on the winter solstice this year. By "fullness of light reflected by the moon" I think he is saying that this will happen on a full moon (which is always when a lunar eclipse happens).

[NoGreaterLove]

“I have asked of the Lord concerning His coming; and while asking the Lord, He gave a sign and said, ‘In the days of Noah I set a bow in the heavens as a sign and token that in any year that the bow should be seen the Lord would not come; but there should be seed time and harvest during that year: but whenever you see the bow withdrawn, it shall be a token that there shall be famine, pestilence, and great distress among the nations, and that the coming of the Messiah is not far distant.’ ”10
“Judah must return, Jerusalem must be rebuilt, and the temple, and water come out from under the temple, and the waters of the Dead Sea be healed [see Ezekiel 47:1–9]. It will take some time to rebuild the walls of the city and the temple, etc.; and all this must be done before the Son of Man will make His appearance. There will be wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens above and on the earth beneath, the sun turned into darkness and the moon to blood, earthquakes in divers places, the seas heaving beyond their bounds; then will appear one grand sign of the Son of Man in heaven. But what will the world do? They will say it is a planet, a comet, etc. But the Son of Man will come as the sign of the coming of the Son of Man, which will be as the light of the morning cometh out of the east [see Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:26].”11
“Chapter 21: The Second Coming and the Millennium,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007),248–60

[NoGreaterLove]

Zion, the New Jerusalem, will be built upon the American continent.

Articles of Faith 1:10: “We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent.”13

“The city of Zion spoken of by David, in the one hundred and second Psalm, will be built upon the land of America, ‘And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads’ [Isaiah 35:10]; and then they will be delivered from the overflowing scourge that shall pass through the land. But Judah shall obtain deliverance at Jerusalem. [See Joel 2:32; Isaiah 26:20–21; Jeremiah 31:12; Psalm 1:5; Ezekiel 34:11–13.] These are testimonies that the Good Shepherd will put forth His own sheep, and lead them out from all nations where they have been scattered in a cloudy and dark day, to Zion, and to Jerusalem.”14

“I shall begin by quoting from the prophecy of Enoch, speaking of the last days: ‘Righteousness will I send down out of heaven, and truth will I send forth out of the earth, to bear testimony of mine Only Begotten, His resurrection from the dead [this resurrection I understand to be the corporeal body]; yea, and also the resurrection of all men; righteousness and truth will I cause to sweep the earth as with a flood, to gather out mine own elect from the four quarters of the earth, unto a place which I shall prepare, a holy city, that my people may gird up their loins, and be looking forth for the time of my coming, for there shall be my tabernacle, and it shall be called Zion, a New Jerusalem’ [Moses 7:62].

“Now I understand by this quotation, that … righteousness and truth are to sweep the earth as with a flood. And now, I ask, how righteousness and truth are going to sweep the earth as with a flood? I will answer. Men and angels are to be co-workers in bringing to pass this great work, and Zion is to be prepared, even a new Jerusalem, for the elect that are to be gathered from the four quarters of the earth, and to be established an holy city, for the tabernacle of the Lord shall be with them. …

“… ‘Behold this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob, and it shall be a New Jerusalem.’ [3 Nephi 20:22.] Now we learn from the Book of Mormon the very identical continent and spot of land upon which the New Jerusalem is to stand, and it must be caught up according to the vision of John upon the isle of Patmos.

“Now many will feel disposed to say, that this New Jerusalem spoken of, is the Jerusalem that was built by the Jews on the eastern continent. But you will see, from Revelation 21:2, there was a New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, adorned as a bride for her husband; that after this, the Revelator was caught away in the Spirit, to a great and high mountain, and saw the great and holy city descending out of heaven from God. Now there are two cities spoken of here. As everything cannot be had in so narrow a compass as a letter, I shall say with brevity, that there is a New Jerusalem to be established on this continent, and also Jerusalem shall be rebuilt on the eastern continent [see Ether 13:1–12]. ‘Behold, Ether saw the days of Christ, and he spake also concerning the house of Israel, and the Jerusalem from whence Lehi should come; after it should be destroyed, it should be built up again, a holy city unto the Lord, wherefore it could not be a New Jerusalem, for it had been in a time of old.’ [Ether 13:4–5.]”15

“The Prophets have said concerning Zion in the last days: how the glory of Lebanon is to come upon her; the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box tree together, to beautify the place of His sanctuary, that He may make the place of His feet glorious [see Isaiah 60:13]. Where for brass, He will bring gold; and for iron, He will bring silver; and for wood, brass; and for stones, iron [see Isaiah 60:17]; and where the feast of fat things will be given to the just [see Isaiah 25:6]; yea, when the splendor of the Lord is brought to our consideration for the good of His people, the calculations of men and the vain glory of the world vanish, and we exclaim, ‘Out of Zion the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.’ [Psalm 50:2.]”16

“Chapter 15: Establishing the Cause of Zion,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007),182–91

[bobhenstra]

NGL, Good job, great references!

Bob

[NoGreaterLove]

I should have posted this to explain where I get the theory that the sign comes before the silence

D&C 88

93 And immediately there shall appear a great sign in heaven, and all people shall see it together.
94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

The sign comes after the sun darkened etc., then the trump saying the mother of abom is bound, then the silence, then the Lord is seen.

[Amore Vero]

When asking for proof we must realize that 'The Spirit' is the most reliable source of information & proof a person can have, next to the Savior coming to you & explaining things. Personal revelation (spiritual oil in our lamps) just can't be used to prove anything to anyone else. Even posting tons of Prophet's quotes just gets a bunch of different interpretations & it still boils down to what the Spirit tells you the Prophet really meant.

So basically you are saying to disregard the scriptures because we will all interpret them differently and they are written by prophets, and you are saying we really do not need a prophet because we can just make it on our own without the prophet to lead us.
I read your posts. You constantly say the prophet said this and the church says that, but you are unwilling to post the quotes.
You can not have it both ways. Back your statements up.

I think the reason you do not back them up is because you can not do it. A lot of the philosophies you teach are contrary to the words of the scriptures and the modern day prophets.

The Lord sent us prophets to lead and guide us for a reason.

You know that I am not saying to disregard scripture, I'm saying, that only if we have 'the Spirit' will we understand what the scriptures & Prophets are really saying. If we don't have the Spirit we will often read or hear it all very differently from the next person.

The 'scriptures' are like 'clues' or 'freebees' that the Prophets have given us to help lead us to seek & find further vital truth & instruction from the Spirit.

I'm not saying I can't be wrong, but just because you do not agree with my interpretation of the words of the Prophets does not mean they are contrary to what the Prophets say & mean. You & I both will be held accountable for how we interpret the Prophets words.

[NoGreaterLove]

If we don't have the Spirit we will often read or hear it all very differently from the next person.

So that means one of us does not have the Spirit. I guess you believe it is me.

HF is not trying to confuse us. He says what he means. Sometimes it is with symbolism, sometimes parabolic. However, when he repeats something over and over again throughout the scriptures from different angles, but says the same thing, you can bet on it.

I have notice you are constantly getting what you call inspiration that speaks contrary to the written word. I would question that.