LDS Freedom Forum

Over the years, I have had a hard time understanding people who get so angry or upset at something the prophet says, and they even go against what the prophet or apostles say.

If you believe that the President of the Church is truly a prophet of God, wouldn't you want to know what he says? There are times when I don't know exactly what is the truth, or which way to look at a situation, but when the prophet, or apostles speak, that clarifies it for me. I want to know what the Lord wants or desires. If there is something I have trouble accepting or understanding, I pray about it in order to understand and/or accept, but I don't go against it, or the prophet, or the church. I stand back until that understanding comes.

If you believe that the prophet really is a prophet of God, then we should follow him, and I do know that Pres. Monson is a prophet of God & Boyd K. Packer is an apostle.

How many times in the scriptures have we read that a prophet was writting what had been revealed to him, when the Lord forbids him to write more. I know that the general authorities know more than we do. How many times have they been told not to reveal more to the general church members? I have no idea, but I know that they know more than I do.


Believer

Believer
I agree. They will quote a dead prophet from the scriptures all day long, but will cast stones at the living ones. Sounds like those who stoned the prophets just before Christ came to America.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Believer...and NGL.

It makes me sad to read posts wherein some think prophets and apostles (especially modern day) are wrong or weak, etc.

If I don't understand something that the prophets and apostles declare, it is likely to be my fault...I pray, read the scriptures, and read talks to try to get enlightenment on what they have presented.

“…many are prone to garnish the sepulchers of yesterday’s prophets and mentally stone the living ones.” Spencer W. Kimball (Latter-day Commentary on the Book of Mormon compiled by K. Douglas Bassett, p. 391)

I just finished listening to the conference. All weepy now. I love Elder Packer. Every talk was wonderful but I just have such a love for Elder Packer. He spoke at our regional conference back in the Spring and had the same tender grandfatherly tone that came through in this most recent talk.

You can just feel the love of God exuding from him.

Thanks so much Dr Jones for posting the link.

MercynGrace wrote:Thanks so much Dr Jones for posting the link.

Absolutely.

I took some pretty good notes, but it's better to hear it for ourselves.

I agree that the conference was a clear warning to us about bad times ahead.

I can see how there could be confusion over whether Pres. Packers remarks about it getting worse could be regarding things spiritual and not things temporal. He did mention our agency and controlling our mind in that context. However - I have to question:

How much worse can it get spiritually? How much harder can it get on us?
Moral sins are some of the worst. Can pornography get any more available than it is now? Any one of us with a computer and internet access can within 5 seconds view the hardest-core pornography available. How much "tougher" can it get spiritually than our day?

In my opinion, when he says those that came before us had the easy part and our part will be tougher, he is speaking of things temporal, not spiritual.

mchlwise wrote:

MercynGrace wrote:Thanks so much Dr Jones for posting the link.

Absolutely.

I took some pretty good notes, but it's better to hear it for ourselves.

I agree that the conference was a clear warning to us about bad times ahead.

I can see how there could be confusion over whether Pres. Packers remarks about it getting worse could be regarding things spiritual and not things temporal. He did mention our agency and controlling our mind in that context. However - I have to question:

How much worse can it get spiritually? How much harder can it get on us?
Moral sins are some of the worst. Can pornography get any more available than it is now? Any one of us with a computer and internet access can within 5 seconds view the hardest-core pornography available. How much "tougher" can it get spiritually than our day?

In my opinion, when he says those that came before us had the easy part and our part will be tougher, he is speaking of things temporal, not spiritual.

One thought that did just occur to me was Brigham Young's statement regarding that the saints could withstand all sorts of adversity but he feared when we became wealthy and he stated that we would be tested with wealth.

Now, if this were the case, and this is what President Packer meant (I doubt it, but hypothetically) then many of us would be sighing a huge sigh of relief. As some have stated, they have been waiting their entire lives to be "tried with riches".

The bottom line is, if that is how we are to be tried, it might be less arduous than what the pioneers went thru, but what profiteth a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? We also know that SL is to be numbered among the wicked cities of the world. Probably already high on the list, but wouldn't it take something like it becoming one of the financial capitals (such as NYC is now) for it to be counted among the most wicked? So again, although I highly doubt it, it isn;t out of the realm of possibility.

Original_Intent wrote:

mchlwise wrote:

MercynGrace wrote:Thanks so much Dr Jones for posting the link.

Absolutely.

I took some pretty good notes, but it's better to hear it for ourselves.

I agree that the conference was a clear warning to us about bad times ahead.

I can see how there could be confusion over whether Pres. Packers remarks about it getting worse could be regarding things spiritual and not things temporal. He did mention our agency and controlling our mind in that context. However - I have to question:

How much worse can it get spiritually? How much harder can it get on us?
Moral sins are some of the worst. Can pornography get any more available than it is now? Any one of us with a computer and internet access can within 5 seconds view the hardest-core pornography available. How much "tougher" can it get spiritually than our day?

In my opinion, when he says those that came before us had the easy part and our part will be tougher, he is speaking of things temporal, not spiritual.

One thought that did just occur to me was Brigham Young's statement regarding that the saints could withstand all sorts of adversity but he feared when we became wealthy and he stated that we would be tested with wealth.

Now, if this were the case, and this is what President Packer meant (I doubt it, but hypothetically) then many of us would be sighing a huge sigh of relief. As some have stated, they have been waiting their entire lives to be "tried with riches".

The bottom line is, if that is how we are to be tried, it might be less arduous than what the pioneers went thru, but what profiteth a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul? We also know that SL is to be numbered among the wicked cities of the world. Probably already high on the list, but wouldn't it take something like it becoming one of the financial capitals (such as NYC is now) for it to be counted among the most wicked? So again, although I highly doubt it, it isn;t out of the realm of possibility.

There are some latter day prophecies that talk about wealthy folks from all over the world coming to utah to invest their money because the rest of the world is so untrust worthy. Perhaps this is what you are reffering to. Brigham also said that SLC would have 3 million population. The company i work for has locations all accross the US. I was told by someone who works at HQ that the least secure (theft break ins etc) store in the intermountain west is much more secure than their most secure stores in other parts of the country. Thats seems to be a compliment to LDS culture in general.

I just watched Julie Beck talk at the Regional Conference. She did not refer to 2 Nephi 15:26-30. Is there another talk where she reference this scripture?

HOL

DrJones wrote:Talks available here:
http://lancewhitaker.com/regional_conference/

Over in the avow forum, several are challenging Pres. Packer's 2006 remarks about Muslims... "sophistry" is among the comments. OTOH, I strongly support Pres. Packer.

Please note the following extracts from a wonderful talk by Pres. Boyd K. Packer at a BYU forum in October 2006: http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=2989

Building Bridges of Understanding:
The Church and the World of Islam
President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter‐day Saints, gave this introduction of
Dr. Alwi Shihab prior to Dr. Shihab's forum address on 10 October 2006.

…Ahead of us, indeed already all around us, is
the world of Islam. Christianity and Islam
will clasp hands in cooperation and
understanding or clench fists in
confrontation and prejudice….

The Doctrine and Covenants has this very
interesting prophecy: “For after your
testimony cometh the testimony of
earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in
the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the
ground and shall not be able to stand.
“And also cometh the testimony of the voice
of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings,
and the voice of tempests, and the voice of
the waves of the sea heaving themselves
beyond their bounds” (D&C 88:89–90;
italics added).

Knit together by world history and by Old
Testament history and doctrine, the Church
and the Islamic world can see each other as
People of the Book, indeed Family of the
Book.

The First Presidency called a special fast for
funds to aid the victims of the tsumani. The
money flowed in—several million dollars.
Part of our purpose in traveling to Indonesia
was to review the significant Church
humanitarian relief to those hardest hit. The
assistance began flowing immediately, and it
continues today.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints expresses “special love and concern
for the eternal welfare of all men and
women, regardless of religious belief, race,
or nationality, knowing that we are truly
brothers and sisters because we are sons and
daughters of the same Eternal Father.”1

We believe that “the great religious leaders
of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius,
and the Reformers, as well as philosophers
including Socrates, Plato, and others,
received a portion of God’s light. Moral
truths were given to them by God to
enlighten whole nations and to bring a
higher level of understanding to
individuals.”2

It is important that we in the West
understand there is a battle for the heart,
soul, and direction of Islam and that not all
Islam espouses violent jihad, as some
Western media portray.

It is as well important that friends in the
Islamic world understand there is a battle for
the heart, soul, and direction of the Western
world and that not all the West is morally
decadent, as some Islamic media portray.

Church members and Muslims share similar
high standards of decency, temperance, and
morality. We have so much in common. As
societal morality and behavior decline in an
increasingly permissive world, the Church
and many within Islam increasingly share
natural affinities.

Muslim scholars point out that the Quran
does not restrict Paradise to Muslims. The
Quran rewards all those of faith who
perform righteousness and believe in the
after-life. The Book calls Jesus Christ
Messiah, Son of Mary, and by the names
Messenger, Prophet, Servant, Word, and
Spirit of God.4



Alwi, a devout Muslim of Arabic ancestry,
and I, a Christian and devout Mormon, have
agreed to symbolically walk arm in arm into
the future. Together we hope to build a
bridge. Except what that symbolizes is
accomplished, all of us face a very dark and
very dangerous future.

Now I introduce Dr. Alwi Shihab with a title
which I borrow from another venerable
Islamic leader and cleric (whom we both
know and love), Abdurrahman Wahid,
former president of Indonesia—Gus Dur. I
apply that title to you, Alwi. You know that
by interpretation it means “Dear Friend.”

Interesting, this link is no longer available.

I totally agree. I can't think of a greater sifter than for the brethren to ask every member to sacrifice their time, money, homes, possessions, etc. (for whatever the reason - fleeing to places of safety, living the law of consecration, etc.) as a test to see who the real Christ-like members are at heart. I know many within my own ward who would probably scoff and murmur at the idea of having to part with their comforts, way of life, money, possessions, career, etc. at the request of the brethren, for whatever the reason. For many, as long as they are fat and happy, have their sports, a cushy career and the ladies can go shopping as a daily ritual, they're content to live the gospel, but throw in a little adversity, some trials and/or tribulations and the cessation of their ease of life, and you suddenly find out what people are made of and what/who they were/are loyal to.

Cleansing of the church indeed, it sounds like a possibility....

I was the ward emergency preparedness specialist. The church has been distributing materials on how to convert the church building into a shelter.

I think that the Book of Mormon teaches that the proper response to tribulation is the Band together.

I think it is very possible that when the "feathers hit the fan" that some in the church may take their year supply and leave the church and try to go it alone.

I would just remember that AOA is by invitation. So, even if I am asked to share and pool my year supply, then I am prepared to do just that.

davedan wrote:I was the ward emergency preparedness specialist. The church has been distributing materials on how to convert the church building into a shelter.

I think that the Book of Mormon teaches that the proper response to tribulation is the Band together.

I think it is very possible that when the "feathers hit the fan" that some in the church may take their year supply and leave the church and try to go it alone.

I would just remember that AOA is by invitation. So, even if I am asked to share and pool my year supply, then I am prepared to do just that.

Ward emergency specialists is one of my callings too. Yet I have never seen / heard of the materilals about which you mentioned. Can you post copies of what you're talking about?

Thanks.

Deleted

I woke early Sunday morning (September 11, 2011) to the feeling of my bed jiggling like jell-o. I attended Tualatin Stake Conference in Oregon that morning, and this was the opening hymn. As the choir sang those lines, "When the earth begins to tremble....." the Spirit drenched me completely with affirmation. Those lyrics have been constantly running through my mind ever since, to the point that I typed the words in my search engine and this blog came up.

I had a dream years ago, that I was walking south with my daughter's family beside the freeway (I-84) several miles south of Pocatello. The baby needed a diaper change and we had just used the last of the disposable diapers we had with us. Then, a year ago, I dreamed this daughter had a baby that she was holding in her lap. When I told her hesitatingly a few months later, she laughed and said, as she had told me before, that they were finished having children. A week later, she told me she was pregnant; that baby was born August 31st. This time, they are making sure that it is really their last. So if those dreams mean anything, we shall be trekking before this baby is potty trained.

Cache Valley or Sanpete County...before two weeks after the first of four quakes...don't trust FEMA, don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning in idling traffic and always remember how the Lord delivered Daniel from the lion's den, and the Hebrew children from the fiery furnace; He can deliver us from whatever evil may come against us, but whatever evil is in us must be purged. God bless us all and preserve us.

Revelation 12
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood [second quake] after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, [third quake] and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Ceseme, all I can say is invest in some flannel diapers and wool covers/longies (not to mention food, a quality pack, and good shoes!).

CB

bbrown wrote:Ceseme, all I can say is invest in some flannel diapers and wool covers/longies (not to mention food, a quality pack, and good shoes!).

CB

...amen on the food,pack, and shoes. Might also work on getting in better physical shape if you aren't currently prepared....I thought I was gonna die a couple months ago when running for the 1st time in a decade (but just two months has made a world of difference - well at least 10 minutes).

ceseme wrote:I woke early Sunday morning (September 11, 2011) to the feeling of my bed jiggling like jell-o. I attended Tualatin Stake Conference in Oregon that morning, and this was the opening hymn. As the choir sang those lines, "When the earth begins to tremble....." the Spirit drenched me completely with affirmation. Those lyrics have been constantly running through my mind ever since, to the point that I typed the words in my search engine and this blog came up.

I had a dream years ago, that I was walking south with my daughter's family beside the freeway (I-84) several miles south of Pocatello. The baby needed a diaper change and we had just used the last of the disposable diapers we had with us. Then, a year ago, I dreamed this daughter had a baby that she was holding in her lap. When I told her hesitatingly a few months later, she laughed and said, as she had told me before, that they were finished having children. A week later, she told me she was pregnant; that baby was born August 31st. This time, they are making sure that it is really their last. So if those dreams mean anything, we shall be trekking before this baby is potty trained.

Cache Valley or Sanpete County...before two weeks after the first of four quakes...don't trust FEMA, don't die of carbon monoxide poisoning in idling traffic and always remember how the Lord delivered Daniel from the lion's den, and the Hebrew children from the fiery furnace; He can deliver us from whatever evil may come against us, but whatever evil is in us must be purged. God bless us all and preserve us.

Revelation 12
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood [second quake] after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, [third quake] and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for sharing....were you headed south or north (wasn't clear) - just curious (I'm south but have family north of pokafella - so either way its not the end of the world).

Also....tell her there's no rush to potty train!!! Or maybe there is.....do you want your medicine now or later???

It is times like this that the saints in far off Australia feel distant indeed. We never get such conferences here.

gkearney wrote:It is times like this that the saints in far off Australia feel distant indeed. We never get such conferences here.

I thought being in Australia meant you were a convict, and so they would not send GAs there.

BroJones wrote:Talks available here:
http://lancewhitaker.com/regional_conference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Over in the avow forum, several are challenging Pres. Packer's 2006 remarks about Muslims... "sophistry" is among the comments. OTOH, I strongly support Pres. Packer.

Please note the following extracts from a wonderful talk by Pres. Boyd K. Packer at a BYU forum in October 2006: http://www.byub.org/talks/Talk.aspx?id=2989

Building Bridges of Understanding:
The Church and the World of Islam
President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter‐day Saints, gave this introduction of
Dr. Alwi Shihab prior to Dr. Shihab's forum address on 10 October 2006.

…Ahead of us, indeed already all around us, is
the world of Islam. Christianity and Islam
will clasp hands in cooperation and
understanding or clench fists in
confrontation and prejudice….

The Doctrine and Covenants has this very
interesting prophecy: “For after your
testimony cometh the testimony of
earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in
the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the
ground and shall not be able to stand.
“And also cometh the testimony of the voice
of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings,
and the voice of tempests, and the voice of
the waves of the sea heaving themselves
beyond their bounds” (D&C 88:89–90;
italics added).

Knit together by world history and by Old
Testament history and doctrine, the Church
and the Islamic world can see each other as
People of the Book, indeed Family of the
Book.

The First Presidency called a special fast for
funds to aid the victims of the tsumani. The
money flowed in—several million dollars.
Part of our purpose in traveling to Indonesia
was to review the significant Church
humanitarian relief to those hardest hit. The
assistance began flowing immediately, and it
continues today.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints expresses “special love and concern
for the eternal welfare of all men and
women, regardless of religious belief, race,
or nationality, knowing that we are truly
brothers and sisters because we are sons and
daughters of the same Eternal Father.”1

We believe that “the great religious leaders
of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius,
and the Reformers, as well as philosophers
including Socrates, Plato, and others,
received a portion of God’s light. Moral
truths were given to them by God to
enlighten whole nations and to bring a
higher level of understanding to
individuals.”2

It is important that we in the West
understand there is a battle for the heart,
soul, and direction of Islam and that not all
Islam espouses violent jihad, as some
Western media portray.

It is as well important that friends in the
Islamic world understand there is a battle for
the heart, soul, and direction of the Western
world and that not all the West is morally
decadent, as some Islamic media portray.

Church members and Muslims share similar
high standards of decency, temperance, and
morality. We have so much in common. As
societal morality and behavior decline in an
increasingly permissive world, the Church
and many within Islam increasingly share
natural affinities.

Muslim scholars point out that the Quran
does not restrict Paradise to Muslims. The
Quran rewards all those of faith who
perform righteousness and believe in the
after-life. The Book calls Jesus Christ
Messiah, Son of Mary, and by the names
Messenger, Prophet, Servant, Word, and
Spirit of God.4



Alwi, a devout Muslim of Arabic ancestry,
and I, a Christian and devout Mormon, have
agreed to symbolically walk arm in arm into
the future. Together we hope to build a
bridge. Except what that symbolizes is
accomplished, all of us face a very dark and
very dangerous future.

Now I introduce Dr. Alwi Shihab with a title
which I borrow from another venerable
Islamic leader and cleric (whom we both
know and love), Abdurrahman Wahid,
former president of Indonesia—Gus Dur. I
apply that title to you, Alwi. You know that
by interpretation it means “Dear Friend.”

Interesting talk from over 6 yrs ago. Thanks Doc.