Rick Koerber and Producer Revolution..

[howdy123]

Madoff isn't even close to running the largest ponzi scheme. Social Security is the largest I'm aware of. How many on this board have been duped ("bamboozled") into that scheme? And if you know it's wrong why do you still invest or even accept it's returns?

No question about it....social security sucks. However, last time I checked, I didn't have a choice whether or not to participate. Those who invested with Madoff, Koerber, etc. did. I don't think anyone was duped or bamboozed into Social Security. We were forced in to it. Big difference.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

Have to agree, I would not pay into it. Well, and now I don't.

[shadow]

No question about it....social security sucks. However, last time I checked, I didn't have a choice whether or not to participate. Those who invested with Madoff, Koerber, etc. did. I don't think anyone was duped or bamboozled into that. We were forced in to it. Big difference.

I don't pay SS . Have you even tried to fight paying SS? CHH says he has and won. How about those that receive SS benefits? Do they cash the checks every month? Are they forced to? Duped!

How about the Wal*Mart shopping? How about the sweat shops that employ young kids as opposed to real factories that honestly employ people qualified to work there? But it feels good to save a few bucks doesn't it? How about those that invested in the stock market? How about those that put money into 401k's? Bamboozled!! We're all bamboozled. We'll all notice we've been taken, duped, bamboozled, screwed sooner or later. Pres. Hinckley in at least two different talks spoke about the 7 yrs of plenty followed by the 7 lean yrs. Guess what happened during the 7 lean yrs.? The money collapsed. I expect a repeat. Who here has money? We've been bamboozled.

If the market didn't go south would Ricks investments/companies be doing good? My neighbor lost over a million $'s in the stock market since it went south. What's the difference? No he didn't pull equity from his house to invest, but is that what Rick asked people to do? When I listened to him on the radio I specifically remember him telling people not to pull money out to invest with him, but to be good stewards of their own money. Maybe he changed his tune from his early radio days????

[howdy123]

Have you even tried to fight paying SS? CHH says he has and won.

Wow. I didn't know they gave federal prisoners Internet access.

Please say "hi" to CHH when you head back to your cell.

[shadow]

Have you even tried to fight paying SS? CHH says he has and won.

Wow. I didn't know they gave federal prisoners Internet access.

Please say "hi" to CHH when you head back to your cell.

CHH's cell is covered with padding while I just have the cement floor, walls and a crapper in the middle (CHH wears depends for safety purposes, no toilet in his cell. They don't want him to hurt himself ). We're in totally different ends of the building but it's Internet accessible. Some nights when it's quiet I can hear CHH yelling dead prophet quotes. But if I ever see him I'll tell him you said "Howdy".

[buffalo_girl]

Now, how does an employee refuse to pay into SS? I don't recall an "opt out" box on any job applications I've filled.

[Proud 2b Peculiar]

By not having a job.

Time for time.

[shadow]

Now, how does an employee refuse to pay into SS? I don't recall an "opt out" box on any job applications I've filled.

CHH has gone over that a few times. We don't need to re-hash it here. I'm personally self employed and don't make any wages. That's how I avoid investing in SS.

I mentioned earlier on a different thread that a member of the 1st quorum of the 70 spoke (bore his testimony) in our ward while visiting family. He mentioned when his grandfather received his SS card he wrote "self supported" on it. No need for the gov to be involved in his temporal welfare I guess. It still strikes me that this Elder would mention that story in a fast and testimony meeting. Surely he knows what the church handbook says about the purpose of such a meeting (to testify of Christ). Even CHH would've felt the spirit in that meeting . He probably would've jumped up and yelled Hallelujah! Anyhow, whether he paid into by force (ignorance of the law) we know he did not accept any check given to him by the gov. Do you?
If what Rick K. did was wrong, people still had the choice to invest with him. I'm sure those that did weren't complaining when they were getting paid. It wasn't wrong then, only when the payments stopped .

It's just funny that some of you now take an "I told you so" attitude about those that got involved with the free capitalist and yet we are all involved in schemes. We've all been duped.

[ChelC]

It's just funny that some of you now take an "I told you so" attitude about those that got involved with the free capitalist and yet we are all involved in schemes. We've all been duped.

True, we've all been duped. Stop making me feel responsible for myself, Shadow. I wanted to go on vacation.

[shadow]

Stop making me feel responsible for myself, Shadow. I wanted to go on vacation.

Me too. A vacation from my problems. Lake Winnipesaukee anyone?

[buffalo_girl]

Anyhow, whether he paid into by force (ignorance of the law) we know he did not accept any check given to him by the gov. Do you?

Is that question for me?

There haven't been that many 'jobs' in my life. I think if I were to collect SS on those lifetime deductions, I would receive around $200 a month. I currently hold a temporary part-time job at the local public school from which SS is deducted.

Don't know what to tell you, Shadow. If you read my previous posting in regard to Utahns being bamboozled, you would have been quite happy to note that when we lived in Provo my husband & I were bamboozled by the real estate/savings and loan Ponzi scheme of the late 70's, early 80's. I hope that makes you feel better

You know, just to put forth another perspective...it was my understanding that SS was actually a Trust Fund. That's different from a Ponzi scheme. A Trust is money managed by a 'trustworthy entity' which oversees group investments which 'earn' interest or dividends by providing capital. Social Security may well have become a Ponzi scheme after the Trust Fund was looted.

Unfortunately, most Baby Boomers who have invested in private bank & Wall St. retirement plans are losing their entire life savings in the current financial vortex.

So, what do you call group medical insurance? The lower premiums are determined by the fact that many employees are members of the same program. Is it ok for an employee on a group insurance plan to receive benefits? I suppose no one is forced to enlist in medical insurance. Well, not until Obama implements the national health plan.

[FTC]

So, shootin' the breeze while at work, I come to discover that one of my co-workers is in the ward with one of the Bishoprics that Rick suckered into investing with him and/or any unrelated and/or disassociated entities. My co-worker didn't give exact dollar amounts (probably because he doesn't have any), but, it was a significant amount, and the end result was that the bishopric (bishop, and 1st & 2nd counselors) took a 100% loss. Fun.

[shadow]

Is that question for me?

No. Just a question in general for people to think about.

Don't know what to tell you, Shadow. If you read my previous posting in regard to Utahns being bamboozled, you would have been quite happy to note that when we lived in Provo my husband & I were bamboozled by the real estate/savings and loan Ponzi scheme of the late 70's, early 80's. I hope that makes you feel better
.

Like I've posted earlier, we've all been duped. Seeing other being duped does not make me happy, quite the opposite.

[howdy123]

It appeares Rick Koerber has relaunched FranklinSquires.

http://franklinsquires.com

[buffalo_girl]

BAIL OUT?!

Proverbs 14
23 In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips tendeth only to penury.

Proverbs 13
11 Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.

[NoodleTheory]

I did a quick google search on penury since I was not familiar with the word. I came across this site. Wow, it's lke it was written just for this subject.

http://www.letgodbetrue.com/proverbs/14_23.htm

[buffalo_girl]

Thank you, Noodle!

That certainly covers the subject before us.

I see you are a new voice on the Forum. Good to have you aboard.

[NoodleTheory]

I see you are a new voice on the Forum. Good to have you aboard.

Thanks Buffalo Girl!

[CHH]

Madoff isn't even close to running the largest ponzi scheme. Social Security is the largest I'm aware of. How many on this board have been duped ("bamboozled") into that scheme? And if you know it's wrong why do you still invest or even accept it's returns?

No question about it....social security sucks. However, last time I checked, I didn't have a choice whether or not to participate. Those who invested with Madoff, Koerber, etc. did. I don't think anyone was duped or bamboozed into Social Security. We were forced in to it. Big difference.

Actually you do.

My lawyer nephew just got a 100% exemption from Social Secuirty taxation. It took him 8 years to get it. He used my research on the law and used the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (which was endorsed and supported by the Church) to establish the fact that he was exempt under religious exemptions.

“Social Security was originally a universal tax, but when Medicare was passed in 1965, objecting religious groups in existence prior to 1951 were allowed to opt out of the system. Because of this, not every American is part of the Social Security program, and not everyone has a number.” From Wikipedia... Social Security number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number

I, of course, have not paid into Social Secuirty for over 30 years. But then I don;t have a Social Secuirty Number and neither does my son.

http://www.iahushua.com/T-L-J/sssvote.htm

And he isn't in prison either, howdy123.

John 8: 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

David Rockefeller said: “Freedom—is the absence of the awareness of restraint.”

Thomas Jefferson said: “If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.”

Stop being ignorant, howdy123. You have a lot to learn but the truth is out there.

http://www.liberty-watch.com/volume03/i ... rstory.php

[CHH]

BAIL OUT?!

Proverbs 14
23 In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips tendeth only to penury.

Proverbs 13
11 Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.

Marion G. Romney, “‘In Mine Own Way’,” Ensign, Nov 1976, 123

"As our modern societies follow the course which led to the fall of Rome and other civilizations which succumbed to the deceptive lure of the welfare state and socialism, I think it not inappropriate for me to emphasize again the Lord’s plan for the temporal salvation of His mortal children....

"The practice of coveting and receiving unearned benefits has now become so fixed in our society that even men of great wealth, and possessing the means to produce more wealth, are expecting the government to guarantee them a profit. Elections often turn on what the candidates promise to do for voters from government funds. This practice, if universally accepted and implemented in any society, will make slaves of its citizens."

It has: Compare this (40% to 75% total local, State and Federal tax rate) to the plight of medieval serfs. They only had to give the lord of the manor a third of their output and they were considered slaves. So what does that make us? –Daniel J. Mitchell, economist

“Freedom—is the absence of the awareness of restraint." David Rockefeller

[CHH]

You know, just to put forth another perspective...it was my understanding that SS was actually a Trust Fund. That's different from a Ponzi scheme. A Trust is money managed by a 'trustworthy entity' which oversees group investments which 'earn' interest or dividends by providing capital. Social Security may well have become a Ponzi scheme after the Trust Fund was looted.

If only we had listened to the Prophets instead of trusting in the government about Socialist Security. They told us it was "in direct opposition to everything I have quoted from Brigham Young and from the revelations of the Lord." But Mormons wanted a king.

"How can sons and daughters... agree to a scheme [Social Security] which would make their fathers and mothers the objects of public organizations that help the poor and cast the burden of their support on the community and stigmatize them with the loss of independence and self-respect." President Monson, First Presidency Message, Guiding Principles of Personal and Family Welfare 1986 AD

We cannot afford to become wards of the government, even though we have a legal right to do so. It requires too great a sacrifice in self-respect and in political, temporal, and spiritual independence. Marion G. Romney, “‘In Mine Own Way’,” Ensign, Nov 1976, 123

Take a good look at what President Heber J. Grant had to say concerning Roosevelt’s Social Security plan. When ever you think of giving up or becoming a part of the Social Security or Federal Income tax lie read this again. He says that such plans are in violation of the revelations of Jesus Christ. Choose you this day who you will serve!

“We have on, at the present time, a great political campaign (1936), and I want to say to the Saints that I hope they will not allow their political affiliations, their regard for political affairs, to cause feelings of ill-will towards one another. I have had some of the most insulting letters that ever came to me, condemning me for not being in favor of the Townsend Plan (later called Social Security), and that I must be ignorant of the plan. I am not ignorant of the plan. I have not read every word of it, but I have asked one of my secretaries to read every word of the plan and to give me the important points, and to my mind it is in direct opposition to everything I have quoted from Brigham Young and from the revelations of the Lord. The idea of allowing every man and woman who has reached the age of sixty years and wishes to retire from working to get two hundred dollars a month from the government! There is nothing truer than Brigham Young's statement, that we should give nothing to people, unless they are not able to work, without requiring them to do something for it….
“Let every Latter-day Saint who has a farm, farm it, and not try to borrow money to be paid back by the government. Let every man feel that he is the architect and builder of his own life, and that he proposes to make a success of it by working. "Six days shalt thou labor and do all thy work," and rest on the seventh. Do not be willing to labor four or five days and then only half labor. Let every Latter-day Saint give value received for everything he gets, whether it be in work, or whatever he does.”—CR, October, 1936: 13. President Heber J. Grant

[A]s a nation we ignored the warning signals which preceded the great depression; we were also unready to face the onrushing realities of Fascism and Communism—whereas today many are blind to the dangers of self-oppression, the chains we put on ourselves, which is the real tyranny of our time. Neal A. Maxwell, 1972

As God’s children all, and as brothers and sisters in Christ, we must as a matter of spiritual responsibility and pursuant to positive divine command care for the helpless, the unfortunate, and the needy. Furthermore, it is essentially a neighbor to neighbor obligation. It is not a function of civil government. This is fundamental.... Viewing all of these things it will be easy for you to understand that the Church has not found it possible to follow along the lines of the present general tendency in the matter of property rights, taxes, the curtailment of rights and liberties of the people, nor in general the economic policies of what is termed the “New Deal”. ... This we feel we can definitely say, that unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions.... The Church as a Church does not believe in war and yet since its organization whenever war has come we have done our part…. we do thoroughly believe in building up our home defenses to the maximum extent necessary, but we do not believe that aggression should be carried on in the name and under the false cloak of defense. We therefore look with sorrowing eyes at the present use to which a great part of the funds being raised by taxes and by borrowing is being put.…We believe that our real threat comes from within and not from without, and it comes from the underlying spirit common to Naziism, Fascism, and Communism, namely, the spirit which would array class against class, which would set up a socialistic state of some sort, which would rob the people of the liberties which we possess under the Constitution, and would set up such a reign of terror as exists now in many parts of Europe. We confess to you that it has not been possible for us to unify our own people even upon the necessity of such a turning about, and therefore we cannot unfortunately, and we say it regretfully, make any practical suggestion to you as to how the nation can be turned about. Faithfully yours, /s/ Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., David O. McKay. (First Presidency letter to U.S. Treasury, September 30, 1941 AD)

[buffalo_girl]

CHH,

I agree with all those points you posted. I DO NOT receive Social Security.

My point was simply that the original SS Plan was established as a Trust Fund - not unlike a 401K or personal retirement trust fund which a person might establish with a financial institution.

I DO NOT TRUST government bureaucracies. They frighten me more than any other type of organization in life. I also DO NOT TRUST Wall St. or the globalist bankers.

That makes it a bit problematic for anyone like myself to secure reserves for the future. I consider my breeding animals, seed, food reserves, small amount of timber, and other land resources as my Trust Fund for retirement. Trouble is...our increasingly aging bodies aren't as cooperative. As long as we can raise our own food and keep up with the property taxes and insurance premiums we may do ok until we drop in our tracks. At that point in time, I can only hope each of us has the strength to bury the other.

[Mosby]

edited out - I found the answer to my question on another post

[CHH]

My point was simply that the original SS Plan was established as a Trust Fund - not unlike a 401K or personal retirement trust fund which a person might establish with a financial institution.

First of all GOOD FOR YOU!

YES! That was the great lie. It was NEVER like a trust or a 401k. It was 100% a tax and welfare. The liars in the FDR administration actually called it insurance. They lied. The United States Supreme Court was VERY clear that is was NOTHING but welfare.

It is easy to secure reserves for the future. Silver and gold coins minted since 1986 AD, land and food supplies.

Don't worry. If the other one can't bury you the animals will get fed. That is the way I look at it anyway. My body, after it's dead does not mean anything to me.

[WYp8riot]

Security is a myth. The only real security is through the gospel and certainly there is no security in Government and any organization that represents and or upholds the abominable church of the Devil.

We agreed to come here parting on Christs side to defend Free agency. When we uphold anything that is against that we are upholding the great abominable church. We are serving two masters.