LDS Freedom Forum

Lucas Daniel Smith has just completed a mailing to each member of Congress a copy of a document which he stated is a certified copy of the original birth certificate of Barack Hussein Obama II showing that Obama was born in Kenya, Africa. Each birth certificate copy was sent with a seven-page, individually-notarized letter by certified mail. The project was completed on August 31, 2010.
Smith said that he obtained the document from the Coast Province General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya in February 2009. The document became part of a lawsuit filed by Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq., in California which was denied a hearing in October 2009 by Judge David O. Carter.

SpeedRacerLFF wrote:Were this to be confirmed in a court of law, assuming you could find one not full of Gadiantons, all that would happen is that they would establish a precedent of a man being elected as a non-citizen and force a change to the constitution.

John Locke wrote:just out of curiosity, how do you guys account for the newspaper articles announcing Obama' birth in Hawaii on his said birthday? Isn't there like 2 different ones? That always seems to be the counter argument I hear to this birther stuff so just wondering how you guys answer that?

John, his Grandmother is on record as saying she was present at his birth in Kenya, Africa. Not only that, Michele Obama has referred to Barry's 'Kenyan home' on several occasions and even Hawaii's Governor, who proclaimed that he was going to stop all of the nonsenical birther talk and present his birth certificate for all to see, had to eat his words when he couldn't do it and now has doubts of his own.

Honestly I think the birther issue is lame...cause as you said as if it would change anything if it was proven even in a court of law. The real issue is that the American populace was dumb enough to elect him in the first place.

Amen.

John Locke wrote:just out of curiosity, how do you guys account for the newspaper articles announcing Obama' birth in Hawaii on his said birthday? Isn't there like 2 different ones? That always seems to be the counter argument I hear to this birther stuff so just wondering how you guys answer that?

Honestly I think the birther issue is lame...cause as you said as if it would change anything if it was proven even in a court of law. The real issue is that the American populace was dumb enough to elect him in the first place.

John Locke wrote:just out of curiosity, how do you guys account for the newspaper articles announcing Obama' birth in Hawaii on his said birthday? Isn't there like 2 different ones? That always seems to be the counter argument I hear to this birther stuff so just wondering how you guys answer that?

Honestly I think the birther issue is lame...cause as you said as if it would change anything if it was proven even in a court of law. The real issue is that the American populace was dumb enough to elect him in the first place.

Rincon wrote:

John Locke wrote:just out of curiosity, how do you guys account for the newspaper articles announcing Obama' birth in Hawaii on his said birthday? Isn't there like 2 different ones? That always seems to be the counter argument I hear to this birther stuff so just wondering how you guys answer that?

Honestly I think the birther issue is lame...cause as you said as if it would change anything if it was proven even in a court of law. The real issue is that the American populace was dumb enough to elect him in the first place.

Have you looked at the Hawaii version? It is not even a birth certificate, and is has no signature on it. I could make on like it on my computer in 10 minutes. The reason it has no signature is because there is no living person who would sign this forgery, because everyone knows the truth will come out eventually and the person who signed it would have egg on his face.

Jason wrote:

John Locke wrote:just out of curiosity, how do you guys account for the newspaper articles announcing Obama' birth in Hawaii on his said birthday? Isn't there like 2 different ones? That always seems to be the counter argument I hear to this birther stuff so just wondering how you guys answer that?

Honestly I think the birther issue is lame...cause as you said as if it would change anything if it was proven even in a court of law. The real issue is that the American populace was dumb enough to elect him in the first place.

you have copies? links?

the reality is it doesn't matter where he was born because he gave up whatever he had to become a citizen of Indonesia....

John Locke wrote:

Jason wrote:

John Locke wrote:just out of curiosity, how do you guys account for the newspaper articles announcing Obama' birth in Hawaii on his said birthday? Isn't there like 2 different ones? That always seems to be the counter argument I hear to this birther stuff so just wondering how you guys answer that?

Honestly I think the birther issue is lame...cause as you said as if it would change anything if it was proven even in a court of law. The real issue is that the American populace was dumb enough to elect him in the first place.

you have copies? links?

the reality is it doesn't matter where he was born because he gave up whatever he had to become a citizen of Indonesia....

here is where I could act like you and be like "do your own research you ignorant person you" but here is a link http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/23/d ... cate-myth/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

granted this isn't a topic I care about but I just was curious as to how you birthers claim away the newspaper stuff...

Jason wrote: LOL....mention you should do some homework and you get your underwear in a bind!

Here's another link with better pictures (more readable) substantiating the link to the blog you provided -
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... abirth.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John Locke wrote:

Jason wrote: LOL....mention you should do some homework and you get your underwear in a bind!

Here's another link with better pictures (more readable) substantiating the link to the blog you provided -
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICL ... abirth.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mention your wrong and you do the same? :-s

Ok so now for you birthers what the explanation for this? Is there any?

InfoWarrior82 wrote:Was Obama born in Kenya? Maybe, but that doesn't really matter when considering the following:

Did Obama give up his "natural born" status when he became an Indonesian citizen? Yes.

Did Obama violate the constitution when he became chairman of the U.N. security council? Yes.

Did Obama violate the constitution when he bypassed congress and deployed military forces in Libya? Yes.

Bottom line is Obama should be impeached and tried for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Janadele wrote:Thanks for the further clarifications.

For those who think it does not matter where he was born because of other circumstances remember that to the majority of US voters it would be a significant and clear indication of fraud if it were established that President Obama was born in Kenya. So if anyone does has any other information or evidence relevant to his place of birth please share, even if you think we should already know.

You know, comrades, that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.

We are much more than a systems manufacturer; we are an election solutions company.

gkearney wrote:I have encountered many U.S. Citizen in Australia who have also taken out Australian citizenship as well. This is legal and one does not loose their U.S. citizenship in doing so. One can renounce U.S. citizenship before a embassy officer. Children can not renounce U.S. citizenship so even if Obama is an indonsian citizen he would have been so as a child.

Jason wrote:

Janadele wrote:Thanks for the further clarifications.

For those who think it does not matter where he was born because of other circumstances remember that to the majority of US voters it would be a significant and clear indication of fraud if it were established that President Obama was born in Kenya. So if anyone does has any other information or evidence relevant to his place of birth please share, even if you think we should already know.

Would it matter?

You know, comrades, that I think in regard to this: I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.

- Joseph Stalin, "Memoirs of the former secretary of Stalin" by Boris Bazhanov

And with that regard only two votes matter - ES&S and DVS

We are much more than a systems manufacturer; we are an election solutions company.

http://www.dominionvoting.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.

“Our great Constitution has been beaten and torn until now it hangs by a single thread, and that thread is our franchise to vote.”

20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA

1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/p ... mpany.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/ ... 2436.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/c ... 3_200.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/03 ... rakis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.p ... cle&sid=26" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://theindependent.com/stories/05270 ... gel27.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/04 ... andes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020 ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

13. Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of Global Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold. Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00191.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

14. Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/1 ... lexoh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here: http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

17. 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/ ... 2436.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

18. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAft ... hIsOut.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?o ... le&sid=950" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

19. The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahas ... 628725.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Oct29.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAft ... hIsOut.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.computerworld.com/government ... 14,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/t ... sands.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://uscountvotes.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Premier Election Solutions,[1] formerly Diebold Election Systems, Inc. (DESI) was a subsidiary of Diebold that makes and sells voting machines. In 2009 it was sold to competitor ES&S. Another subsidiary selling electronic voting systems in Brazil is Diebold-Procomp, with minor market share in that nation. In 2010, Dominion Voting Systems purchased the primary assets of Premier, including all intellectual property, software, firmware and hardware for Premier’s current and legacy optical scan, central scan, and touch screen voting systems, and all versions of the GEMS election management system from ES&S.

At the time ES&S spun off the company due to monopoly charges its systems were in use in 1,400 jurisdictions in 33 states and serving nearly 28 million people.

Dominion was founded in 2002 in Toronto, Canada, by John Poulos and James Hoover.

Sequoia Voting Systems was a California-based company that is one of the largest providers of electronic voting systems in the U.S., having offices in Oakland, Denver and New York City. Some of its major competitors were Premier Election Solutions (formerly Diebold Election Systems) and Election Systems & Software.

It was acquired by Denver-based Dominion Voting Systems on June 4, 2010. At the time it had contracts for 300 jurisdictions in 16 states through its its BPS, WinEDS, Edge, Edge2, Advantage, Insight, InsightPlus and 400C systems.

Jason wrote:

gkearney wrote:I have encountered many U.S. Citizen in Australia who have also taken out Australian citizenship as well. This is legal and one does not loose their U.S. citizenship in doing so. One can renounce U.S. citizenship before a embassy officer. Children can not renounce U.S. citizenship so even if Obama is an indonsian citizen he would have been so as a child.

Some countries (like Indonesia) do not allow dual citizenship....so you are either a citizen of another country or a citizen of Indonesia. In order to attend public school in Indonesia (which Obama did) you have to be a citizen of Indonesia.

gkearney wrote:

Jason wrote:

gkearney wrote:I have encountered many U.S. Citizen in Australia who have also taken out Australian citizenship as well. This is legal and one does not loose their U.S. citizenship in doing so. One can renounce U.S. citizenship before a embassy officer. Children can not renounce U.S. citizenship so even if Obama is an indonsian citizen he would have been so as a child.

Some countries (like Indonesia) do not allow dual citizenship....so you are either a citizen of another country or a citizen of Indonesia. In order to attend public school in Indonesia (which Obama did) you have to be a citizen of Indonesia.

Well indonesia can say what ever it likes but Indonesia is not able to change someone's citizenship from another country.

gkearney wrote:I think you miss the point. Let's say Im a U.S. Citizen born in the United States. Now for the sake of argument I as a child move to Indonesia and Indonesia says you must be a citizen to go to public school so Indonesia claims that I am now an Indonesian citizen. But Indonesia is not able to enforce it's no dual citizenship rule on the United States. The United States can still consider me a citizen and can issue me a U.S. Passport. It matters not one whit what Indonesian law says about the matter.

In Australia and I believe this is the case in the U.S. as well one has to renounce their citizenship before a judge or diplomatic official. Simply attending school, even in a nation that says you must be a citizen to do so will not strip you of your citizenship. So even if Obama were to attend an Indonesian public school and even if Indonesia says he is a citizen for doing so that has no impact on his U.S. Citizenship. Obama was far to young to be able to legally renounce his citizenship in Indonesia and what his stepfather wrote on a school registration hardly matters. Finally the school he attended in Indonesia was not public but Catholic. So while they might demand citizenship such demands have no impact on any other citizenship you might hold as only those nations have the power to strip you of their citizenship.

If I understand the U.S. law in this matter you must be a natural born U.S. Citizen to be president but I do not believe that the law prevents a dual citizen from being president so long as he was born in the United States or one of its territories (John McCain was born in the Canal Zone for example.)

It is perfectly legal for a U.S. citizen to be a dual citizen of one or more countries.