The Holy Ghost and the Millenium

[tsc]

I have wondered about the role the Holy Ghost will play just prior to, and during, the Millenium. If any of you has any insight I would appreciate it.

Knowing that the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, I assume that at some point in time He will have to be born and receive His body. If this is true, then:

Will He be born on this earth?
Will He be born just before the Savior comes, or just after?
Will His parents know who He is?

Thanks

[Original_Intent]

I will go ahead and respond: AFAIK we have nto been given any of this information, and there as there is no need to know, I highly doubt that we will get any information, at the very least until we are living a much higher law and have been given more revelation on things that are more pertinent to our salvation.

[AngelPalmoni]

All that being said... if you are bored here is a different Idea of The Holy Ghost being an intelligence which will be the First Born Spiritually in the Next Plan of Salvation to our Christ Christ which will be the New Father. So the Holy Ghost will be the Next Christ just as God the Father was the Last Christ and Christ will be the Next Father...

http://www.ldspalmoni.com/Angel_Palmoni ... ence_.html

[Original_Intent]

All that being said... if you are bored here is a different Idea of The Holy Ghost being an intelligence which will be the First Born Spiritually in the Next Plan of Salvation to our Christ Christ which will be the New Father. So the Holy Ghost will be the Next Christ just as God the Father was the Last Christ and Christ will be the Next Father...

http://www.ldspalmoni.com/Angel_Palmoni ... ence_.html

I believe the Holy Ghost has already been born spiritually - a spirit child of our Heavenly Father. So I can't agree with your theory that he will be the First Born Spiritually in the next round of creation under Jesus Christ.

[AngelPalmoni]

All that being said... if you are bored here is a different Idea of The Holy Ghost being an intelligence which will be the First Born Spiritually in the Next Plan of Salvation to our Christ Christ which will be the New Father. So the Holy Ghost will be the Next Christ just as God the Father was the Last Christ and Christ will be the Next Father...

http://www.ldspalmoni.com/Angel_Palmoni ... ence_.html

I believe the Holy Ghost has already been born spiritually - a spirit child of our Heavenly Father. So I can't agree with your theory that he will be the First Born Spiritually in the next round of creation under Jesus Christ.

So what you are saying is that There is another perfectly Sinless Spirit Child of our Heavenly Father who is on the same Par as Christ? Being a member of the Godhead you have to be Perfect... like Christ and God perfect, not like Adam or Abraham perfect cause they sinned... Christ is in a League all on his own, no one can second for the Role of Christ it's either Christ or Nothing...

[AngelPalmoni]

Christ is a Generation behind the Father, why is it so hard to Fathom that the Holy Ghost is a generation behind Christ?

[oneClimbs]

Sigh, why must we keep digging this topic up? There has never been anything revealed on this to my knowledge, the only encounter with the Spirit I know of is in Nephi's vision. He sees him, yes he is male and speaks with him. Will he get a body? We don't know, but we suppose so. Will he get married and enjoy eternal life for which he will have sealed up for billions of others? We suppose, after all, why wouldn't he.

Since we are speculating, I've always just thought of it this way; before 'time' on his earth, the Father had a resurrected body, the Savior recieved his in the meridian of time and the Holy Spirit will receive his at the very end bringing it all to a nice close.

As the Savior is to atonement, the Spirit is to testimony. The Savior's gift is charity, his pure love, the Spirit's gift is testimony, his pure knowledge.

[AngelPalmoni]

I'm sure we won't need the Holy Ghost when satan is loosed for a little season after the millennium...

[Original_Intent]

I'm sure we won't need the Holy Ghost when satan is loosed for a little season after the millennium...

Umm he did say at the VERY end, didn't he. That would be AFTER the "little season", not before it. Not hard to comprehend, but it seems like you like to interpret things to fit your view.

Of course the Holy Ghost is sinless, your logic that this disqualifies him as a spirit child of Heavenly Father is faulty, and your "concern" that this might somehow lessen Christ's glory because Christ is "in a class by Himself" is viewing things thru a very flawed and mortal perspective. Just as Christ's perfection does not detract from the Father's perfection but rather adds to it, is it not equally possible that the Holy Ghost's perfection adds to both the Father and the Son?

Your THEORY is not impossible, but once again you have worked things out to your satisfaction in your own head and then present/defend your ideas as if they were factual gospel principles but provide no scriptural or prophetic backing. There is nothing wrong with speculation, there is not even anything wrong with sharing it as long as you share it as speculation - but your approach of saying this is the way it is because you have worked it all out and this is the way it MUST be is completely counter to the house of ORDER that the Lord has established.

[NoGreaterLove]

there is not even anything wrong with sharing it as long as you share it as speculation - but your approach of saying this is the way it is because you have worked it all out and this is the way it MUST be is completely counter to the house of ORDER that the Lord has established

Thank OI
I was about to post the same. To go on proclaiming ideas as truths and then insinuate that she can not back up what she has learned because she learned it through the HG tells me something is wrong. The Lord reveals no secrets unto the children of men except he reveals them to his prophets. To bypass the prophets teachings and some instances to go against them is traveling down the wrong course.

AP
It seems that Amore and you come from the sect of relegion. I am not so sure it is the same one I come from.

[Amore Vero]

To go on proclaiming ideas as truths and then insinuate that she can not back up what she has learned because she learned it through the HG tells me something is wrong. The Lord reveals no secrets unto the children of men except he reveals them to his prophets. To bypass the prophets teachings and some instances to go against them is traveling down the wrong course.

NGL,

Anyone can receive more & even greater truths from the Holy Spirit than what the Prophets have spoken over the pulpit. While we don't believe in going against the Prophets teachings, we certainly can receive things that add to them & clarify them even further, things that explain & take us to even higher heights.

The Holy Spirit will tell us all things that we should do, not the Prophets. The Key to making it to the Celestial Kingdom is in having the Spirit to tell us all the extra things that the Prophets don't or can't mention because they are talking to a whole group, most of whom are not ready for the whole truth. In fact, even if we have Prophets telling us great truths, unless we have the Spirit we will interpret the Prophets incorrectly & still go astray.

The most important truth teacher is the Holy Spirt & he should be the one giving us most of our instruction & knowledge about doctrines & how we should live our lives, on a daily basis.

[shadow]

Christ is a Generation behind the Father, why is it so hard to Fathom that the Holy Ghost is a generation behind Christ?

The Holy Ghost is already a God like Christ was before he was born of Mary. The HG has a different role/stewardship/calling than Christ, but he has already attained godhood, he is after all one of the 3 separate Gods that make up the Godhead (How could he be a God if he hasn't even been spiritually born ?. ) He will receive a body once his calling is complete, probably just prior to the Great Jehovah telling the Father "the work is done". He cannot accomplish his calling with a body.
-doctrine according to shadow 8)

Why is this site full of crazy ideas as of late?? I have to conclude that many people on this site type while standing because their bishops surely would have kicked their butts for their outlandish ideas.

[Jason]

Christ is a Generation behind the Father, why is it so hard to Fathom that the Holy Ghost is a generation behind Christ?

The Holy Ghost is already a God like Christ was before he was born of Mary. The HG has a different role/stewardship/calling than Christ, but he has already attained godhood, he is after all one of the 3 separate Gods that make up the Godhead (How could he be a God if he hasn't even been spiritually born ?. ) He will receive a body once his calling is complete, probably just prior to the Great Jehovah telling the Father "the work is done". He cannot accomplish his calling with a body.
-doctrine according to shadow 8)

Why is this site full of crazy ideas as of late?? I have to conclude that many people on this site type while standing because their bishops surely would have kicked their butts for their outlandish ideas.

“I could explain a hundred fold more than I ever have of the glories of the kingdoms manifested to me in the vision, were I permitted, and were the people prepared to receive them. “ - Joseph Smith, Jr.

“If I revealed all that has been made known to me, scarcely a man on this stand would stay with me." and "Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me.” - Joseph Smith, Jr.

“I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen.” - Joseph Smith, Jr.

[Original_Intent]

Oh, I agree with Amore that certainly things can be given to us that we have not heard from the prophet. And I even think many things can be "worked out" and we can receive a witness that we are on the right path. I will go so far that, when moved upon by the spirit, it is OK to share these thoughts, revelations, speculations, but the line is crossed when these are shared with others as doctrine without supporting prophetic or scriptural reference. I certainly believe that once we have a firm founding in the things that we have been given, that we should be pushing onward to get "line upon line, precept by precept". And working those things out collectively, such as on this forum, I think is just fine as long as we are clear about what we are doing.

There are a few people who for some time have been posting as gospel their own thoughts. Some have even gone so far as to get derogatory or offended with anyone that dares question their higher knowledge. No matter how good their information, when I see someone reacting in anger (and sometimes that person is myself) then I have to consider that their source is probably not reliable. Truth can be supported with truth, ridcule and lawyerly arguments are usually used to defend unsound theories.

[shadow]

Jason, I have no problem accepting truth where I see or feel it. AP's idea that the HG, who is already a God, hasn't even been spiritually born yet is crazy, crazy as in not true. We can easily dig up plenty of information that testifies that the HG is a spirit. If a spirit he must have been spiritually born.

[Jason]

Oh, I agree with Amore that certainly things can be given to us that we have not heard from the prophet. And I even think many things can be "worked out" and we can receive a witness that we are on the right path. I will go so far that, when moved upon by the spirit, it is OK to share these thoughts, revelations, speculations, but the line is crossed when these are shared with others as doctrine without supporting prophetic or scriptural reference. I certainly believe that once we have a firm founding in the things that we have been given, that we should be pushing onward to get "line upon line, precept by precept". And working those things out collectively, such as on this forum, I think is just fine as long as we are clear about what we are doing.

There are a few people who for some time have been posting as gospel their own thoughts. Some have even gone so far as to get derogatory or offended with anyone that dares question their higher knowledge. No matter how good their information, when I see someone reacting in anger (and sometimes that person is myself) then I have to consider that their source is probably not reliable. Truth can be supported with truth, ridcule and lawyerly arguments are usually used to defend unsound theories.

Correct.....but in this medium its very easy to perceive something that isn't there - i.e. an opinion or even strongly held opinion/perspective that can come across as fact when if one talked to the person (person to person) that would not be the case.

So are we making a mountain out of a molehill because someone didn't present themselves the way we would have them do it? Is our first response to ridicule, berate, etc? Why not just take whatever they present at face value....we agree - fine....we don't agree - fine? and do our own research.....

[Jason]

Jason, I have no problem accepting truth where I see or feel it. AP's idea that the HG, who is already a God, hasn't even been spiritually born yet is crazy, crazy as in not true. We can easily dig up plenty of information that testifies that the HG is a spirit. If a spirit he must have been spiritually born.

Then dig up and post the information....calling names or labeling certainly won't entitle one to the Spirit!

FYI - also talking about the deep pool of intelligences.....

Also I'm probably a little sensitive as I have been corresponding with Angel Palmoni off and on for several months now (introduced to his material by LukeAir2000 who posted one of his videos on here) and invited him to the forum (as there are some strong scriptorians to bounce the material off of). My brother posted once here and someone jumped on him with both feet and he's never been back. That said, I've been accused several times of attacking people or at least their ideas and chasing them off.....so I'm not pointing the finger at anyone.

I'm talking as much or more to myself as anyone else.

Anyways some of the ideas Angel Palmoni has presented are far out.....but one can't really judge until they've done the due diligence (which I'm in the midst of). Also Angel Palmoni isn't the source of the material but simply a messenger that obviously has a strong belief that the material is correct.

[oneClimbs]

"D&C 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."

"1 Nephi 11:11 And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof—for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another.

I've never heard of a mortal speaking with an intelligence. Also, aren't intelligences without form until spiritually created? If the Holy Spirit was an intelligence how could he take the form of a man? I don't understand why the Holy Spirit would have to be an intelligence to do his job. It also seems to me that only after something is created spiritually that it has something to even do with a particular creation (an earth and it's inhabitants). Wouldn't we call him the "Holy Intelligence" instead of the Holy Spirit?

Is there any official doctrine that we can refer to that refers to the Holy Spirit as not having a spirit body and being an intelligence only? Because I think the weight of evidence shows otherwise, that he is a Spirit. And if he is in fact a HE, then he was organized into a man with the properties of a man, or in other words, after the likeness of the Father.

[Amore Vero]

When the Spirit teaches a truth to someone, it can be 'fact' to that person for they know it's true & they may present it to others as a 'fact', for to them it is. If it is something that the Spirit taught & hasn't yet been taught by Prophets then it cannot always be backed up by scripture or Prophetic quotes, so the hearer must also use the Spirit to help them know if it''s true or not.

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity.

[Jason]

When the Spirit teaches a truth to someone, it can be 'fact' to that person for they know it's true & they may present it to others as a 'fact', for to them it is. If it is something that the Spirit taught & hasn't yet been taught by Prophets then it cannot always be backed up by scripture or Prophetic quotes, so the hearer must also use the Spirit to help them know if it''s true or not.

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity.

Also we are expected to do our own due diligence - research it and study it out in our minds. The gospel is a deep pool and we are the limiting factor as to the depth we choose to go.

[Amore Vero]

When the Spirit teaches a truth to someone, it can be 'fact' to that person for they know it's true & they may present it to others as a 'fact', for to them it is. If it is something that the Spirit taught & hasn't yet been taught by Prophets then it cannot always be backed up by scripture or Prophetic quotes, so the hearer must also use the Spirit to help them know if it''s true or not.

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity.

Also we are expected to do our own due diligence - research it and study it out in our minds. The gospel is a deep pool and we are the limiting factor as to the depth we choose to go.

I totally agree Jason. Thanks!

[NoGreaterLove]

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity

What if I show you where prophets have said you should not teach things as doctrine unless it has been established as such by the scriptures or modern day revelation from a prophet. Is not this what the scribes and Pharisees did? Looking beyond the mark.

The reason we are having a problem with your teachings are #1 they are false and #2 you say no prophet has revealed them, but you have secret elevated knowledge, and #3 you have no backing or support and continue to hint that we are not at your level of understanding.

Your teachings do not fall within the truth, yet you proclaim you have had revelation from the HG. Big red flag!

[Amore Vero]

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity

What if I show you where prophets have said you should not teach things as doctrine unless it has been established as such by the scriptures or modern day revelation from a prophet. Is not this what the scribes and Pharisees did? Looking beyond the mark.

The reason we are having a problem with your teachings are #1 they are false and #2 you say no prophet has revealed them, but you have secret elevated knowledge, and #3 you have no backing or support and continue to hint that we are not at your level of understanding.

Your teachings do not fall within the truth, yet you proclaim you have had revelation from the HG. Big red flag!

We are at liberty to declare & bear testimony of any truth the Spirit teaches us & inspires us to share. Any truth that the Spirit teaches us will never conflict with truth from the Prophets, though those without the Spirit may think it conflicts for they just don't understand how it fits. But just because someone does not have the Spirit to believe what we testify of, mattereth not. Truth is truth no matter who says it. But we must have the Spirit to discern when truth is spoken to us or we will miss out on greater learning & vital doctrine.

[oneClimbs]

When the Spirit teaches a truth to someone, it can be 'fact' to that person for they know it's true & they may present it to others as a 'fact', for to them it is. If it is something that the Spirit taught & hasn't yet been taught by Prophets then it cannot always be backed up by scripture or Prophetic quotes, so the hearer must also use the Spirit to help them know if it''s true or not.

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity.

Also we are expected to do our own due diligence - research it and study it out in our minds. The gospel is a deep pool and we are the limiting factor as to the depth we choose to go.

I agree that the Holy Spirit can reveal things that the prophets have not revealed. I believe that we can have the visions of the Brother of Jared, Moses, et all. However, there were things that even they did not reveal to the people of their times. Now we are having a discussion about a particular topic where not much has been revealed and we have people introducing personal revelation into the debate.

Is this appropriate? Should it be appropriate? I this the appropriate forum for this kind of discussion (and I don't mean the 'website forum')?

Personally, I NEVER talk about things that have been revealed to me, only as they apply to my family and those I have stewardship over. Instead of addressing the doctrinal aspect shouldn't we first address what information is allowed into the debate to begin with?

So my question is this: "Is the LDSFreedomForum.com a place where personal revelation outside the scope of revealed truth is admissible to debate a point on a topic?"

A secondary question would be: "Is it appropriate for one person who has had a sacred revelation of information outside of the scope of revealed truth to ask another person outside of their stewardship to pray about the truthfulness of said revelation for themselves."

[Jason]

Our requests for proof or references is not needed if we possess the Spirit to tell us if something is true or not. If the Spirit does tell us something someone says is in fact 'true' then we may want to study it all out on our own & find out why it's true. At that point any references given will just prove helpful but not a necessity

What if I show you where prophets have said you should not teach things as doctrine unless it has been established as such by the scriptures or modern day revelation from a prophet. Is not this what the scribes and Pharisees did? Looking beyond the mark.

The reason we are having a problem with your teachings are #1 they are false and #2 you say no prophet has revealed them, but you have secret elevated knowledge, and #3 you have no backing or support and continue to hint that we are not at your level of understanding.

Your teachings do not fall within the truth, yet you proclaim you have had revelation from the HG. Big red flag!

Aren't you mixing people up?