Tips for "waking" your "sleepy" friends

[Epistemology]

I've read numerous posts on this forum about the difficulties in helping other LDS members or friends in general "wake up" to their awful situation. I thought I'd share some of my observations.

What I have to say is probably nothing new to anyone reading this. Just like Gospel lessons or stories in the scriptures we have heard told over and over, the information I share is not new. But, just like the stories and lessons in the scriptures, we can learn something new each time we read or hear the principles embedded within. Sometimes it's not the familiar content alone that teaches us something, but the re-presentation of those issues on a continuous changing format that does.

Just a few points I want to make.

First and foremost, modify or personalize your message based on who the recipient is. Don’t present specifics. Start with general concepts.


1. The Polite Indifferent Person

This person will listen to anything you say whether it’s logically presented or jumbled all over the place. They will listen but not “hear” your message. They are really indifferent to the issues and are probably thinking about their next trip to Lake Powell or what time The Bachelor comes on. They may listen for hours and weeks but it won’t go anywhere. The key with this person is to get them talking. Short bursts of info from you and longer retorts from them, back and forth. Find out what issue(s) interests them and get them talking about that. Intercede with pertinent information based on their comments.


2. The Educated Skeptic

Present the information logically. Start from the top and move down. Don’t start talking about specifics before you lay the foundation. This person will doubt you know any specifics you claim until you lead them to it. You will lose them and they will tune out if you present a scrambled list of specific items. Don’t claim you “know” many specifics only generals. This type of person you can introduce unfamiliar issues and concepts and they will be able to stay focused if it’s logically presented. If this person can be convinced of something on a broader scale they will spend time pondering on how this relates to many other matters. This person will accept an assignment and fulfill it out of a sense of duty.


3. The Un-educated Skeptic and The Prideful Skeptic

This person doesn’t want to be bothered by craziness. They will feel like you are trying to tell them what to do instead of thinking you’re trying to share something with them. You must provide an atmosphere of equality with them. If not, they will feel like you are talking down to them and get defensive. A big key here is to try and persuade them that these issues DO matter. The Polite Indifferent Person may believe there are problems but have no fire to do anything. The Un-educ. and the Prideful Skeptic will think they have more “important” things to worry about than “fiction stories”. These people are hard. One way to help convince them these issues DO matter is to lead them to a personalized dilemma and let them ponder it awhile. These people are stubborn, but can eventually understand the dilemma and proceed down the correct road of the dilemma when THEY choose it.


4. The Arguer

This person usually talks from emotion instead of logic. The hardest thing to avoid is jumping from one topic to the next after spending 20 sec on an issue. This person is just thinking of the next thing to say most of the time. You must not get caught up in answering their irrelevant questions they ask to try and trip you up. Lots of logical fallacies committed in these conversations. You must do most of the talking. You must make it clear you are inviting them into your world because if not, they will pull you quickly into theirs. I have literally had to speak to my friends and others who are arguers like they are kids. Be upfront and casual and tell them to listen. Interrupt them and get back on point. You must get them out of discussion mode and into lecture mode. If they feel like it’s a discussion they will try and dominate. If you bring them into your world and let them know you are the lecturer (teacher) and they are the listener (student) you have a chance.

Hope this helps!

[M249Gunner]

I've read numerous posts on this forum about the difficulties in helping other LDS members or friends in general "wake up" to their awful situation. I thought I'd share some of my observations.

What I have to say is probably nothing new to anyone reading this. Just like Gospel lessons or stories in the scriptures we have heard told over and over, the information I share is not new. But, just like the stories and lessons in the scriptures, we can learn something new each time we read or hear the principles embedded within. Sometimes it's not the familiar content alone that teaches us something, but the re-presentation of those issues on a continuous changing format that does.

Just a few points I want to make.

First and foremost, modify or personalize your message based on who the recipient is. Don’t present specifics. Start with general concepts.


1. The Polite Indifferent Person

This person will listen to anything you say whether it’s logically presented or jumbled all over the place. They will listen but not “hear” your message. They are really indifferent to the issues and are probably thinking about their next trip to Lake Powell or what time The Bachelor comes on. They may listen for hours and weeks but it won’t go anywhere. The key with this person is to get them talking. Short bursts of info from you and longer retorts from them, back and forth. Find out what issue(s) interests them and get them talking about that. Intercede with pertinent information based on their comments.


2. The Educated Skeptic

Present the information logically. Start from the top and move down. Don’t start talking about specifics before you lay the foundation. This person will doubt you know any specifics you claim until you lead them to it. You will lose them and they will tune out if you present a scrambled list of specific items. Don’t claim you “know” many specifics only generals. This type of person you can introduce unfamiliar issues and concepts and they will be able to stay focused if it’s logically presented. If this person can be convinced of something on a broader scale they will spend time pondering on how this relates to many other matters. This person will accept an assignment and fulfill it out of a sense of duty.


3. The Un-educated Skeptic and The Prideful Skeptic

This person doesn’t want to be bothered by craziness. They will feel like you are trying to tell them what to do instead of thinking you’re trying to share something with them. You must provide an atmosphere of equality with them. If not, they will feel like you are talking down to them and get defensive. A big key here is to try and persuade them that these issues DO matter. The Polite Indifferent Person may believe there are problems but have no fire to do anything. The Un-educ. and the Prideful Skeptic will think they have more “important” things to worry about than “fiction stories”. These people are hard. One way to help convince them these issues DO matter is to lead them to a personalized dilemma and let them ponder it awhile. These people are stubborn, but can eventually understand the dilemma and proceed down the correct road of the dilemma when THEY choose it.


4. The Arguer

This person usually talks from emotion instead of logic. The hardest thing to avoid is jumping from one topic to the next after spending 20 sec on an issue. This person is just thinking of the next thing to say most of the time. You must not get caught up in answering their irrelevant questions they ask to try and trip you up. Lots of logical fallacies committed in these conversations. You must do most of the talking. You must make it clear you are inviting them into your world because if not, they will pull you quickly into theirs. I have literally had to speak to my friends and others who are arguers like they are kids. Be upfront and casual and tell them to listen. Interrupt them and get back on point. You must get them out of discussion mode and into lecture mode. If they feel like it’s a discussion they will try and dominate. If you bring them into your world and let them know you are the lecturer (teacher) and they are the listener (student) you have a chance.

Hope this helps!

So if I'm contending with a prideful, know-it-all who works in Air-Force-Intelligence and claims that because of his level of clearance, "if something was going on, he'd KNOW about it", and thinks our laws are so powerful that even the government could not get away with breaking the law, and things like government conspiracies to assassinate JFK or blow up the towers are crap from the movies, will not read a book, and believes that people who think like me are crazy conspiracy theorists...... which category do they fall into?

The naive category.

[Mahonri]

So if I'm contending with a prideful, know-it-all who works in Air-Force-Intelligence and claims that because of his level of clearance, "if something was going on, he'd KNOW about it", and thinks our laws are so powerful that even the government could not get away with breaking the law, and things like government conspiracies to assassinate JFK or blow up the towers are crap from the movies, will not read a book, and believes that people who think like me are crazy conspiracy theorists...... which category do they fall into?

is he LDS? If not, it will be more difficult. If yes, ask him to read some things by the Prophets. show him the quote by Benson telling everyone to read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy"

[Mahonri]

I really fell in this whole arena, it doesn't matter what type of person you are talking about, the person has to want to be open to learning new things first of all.

The biggest part to me though is, we can only lead their education, we can't do it for them. invite them to read things from people you both consider authorities, and on their level. If the idea is so new to them that they have no where to put the info, it will go right in the delete file of the brain.

if they are LDS, try to keep them as much in that arena as possible. it will stick harder and longer and be harder for others to take them back into asleep mode.

Bottom line: they have to learn it for themselves. No matter what you say, until they sit down and take time on their own to find out what is right, it is just going to go right over their head.

[Mahonri]

ouch sorry to hear that.

better things to do than read talks from the Brethren? o...k...

How about starting with this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJNMcD2IY_k

and ask him if he wants to know what the book is about

perhaps even this series of videos starting with this part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMfCQfj3iZk

[p51-mustang]

So if I'm contending with a prideful, know-it-all who works in Air-Force-Intelligence and claims that because of his level of clearance, "if something was going on, he'd KNOW about it", and thinks our laws are so powerful that even the government could not get away with breaking the law, and things like government conspiracies to assassinate JFK or blow up the towers are crap from the movies, will not read a book, and believes that people who think like me are crazy conspiracy theorists...... which category do they fall into?

is he LDS? If not, it will be more difficult. If yes, ask him to read some things by the Prophets. show him the quote by Benson telling everyone to read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy"

Yep, he's LDS, but has better things to do than read. Although we are separated, he is my husband and it's important to me that he see the truth for the sake of my son.

Good point. Do all that you can to make sure you son doesnt join the military. With gadiantons at the helm of our govt, they have turned the US military into a big stick to beat other nations into submission and into the NWO. No need for our youth to be a part of that circus.

[Jason]

So if I'm contending with a prideful, know-it-all who works in Air-Force-Intelligence and claims that because of his level of clearance, "if something was going on, he'd KNOW about it", and thinks our laws are so powerful that even the government could not get away with breaking the law, and things like government conspiracies to assassinate JFK or blow up the towers are crap from the movies, will not read a book, and believes that people who think like me are crazy conspiracy theorists...... which category do they fall into?

is he LDS? If not, it will be more difficult. If yes, ask him to read some things by the Prophets. show him the quote by Benson telling everyone to read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy"

Yep, he's LDS, but has better things to do than read. Although we are separated, he is my husband and it's important to me that he see the truth for the sake of my son.

...good thing I read the rest of the posts....I was just about to ask you if he was your husband....LOL

it's been my experience that you can't get someone to listen who isn't willing....

[Jason]

ouch sorry to hear that.

better things to do than read talks from the Brethren? o...k...

How about starting with this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJNMcD2IY_k

and ask him if he wants to know what the book is about

perhaps even this series of videos starting with this part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMfCQfj3iZk

Thank you for these links - I just watched them all and sent them to my husband. We'll see what his reaction is.

Ask him questions with regard to intelligence ops (respect his position and knowledge of military intelligence...temporarily forget about the oxymoron).

A few suggestions: What was the deal with Operation Keelhaul? What was Operation Zapata all about? Operation Mongoose? Operation Gladio? Operation Paperclip? Operation Watchtower? Operation Mockingbird? Operation MK-ULTRA? Operation AJAX? Operation Northwoods? What was the ZR/RIFLE program? Operation Phoenix? Operation Chaos?

how come Afghanistan went from producing 75% of the world's heroin to 95% after we invaded? don't we control all the major transportation routes? or you might ask how come we are funding the Taliban? or why is the US building 7 new bases in Columbia when Columbia supplies 85% of the world's cocaine?

Not that he would be interested but there's over 100 hours of video here -
http://yophat.blogspot.com/2010/07/behi ... onion.html

and over 300 books listed here -
http://yophat.blogspot.com/2010_07_21_archive.html

[dennis]

I have learned that dealing with a difference of opinion , with a spouse can be a whole different ball game.
Some thoughts: A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
Once during a disagreement, with my spouse, I said "You are Right" and let her continue . She soon quit defending her position, and then let the issue drop. Several weeks later I was very, very surprised to learn that she had actually adopted my point of view. To respond to others, with a difference of opinion, especially a spouse, cannot be scripted or based on a formula. In general, We will need a lot of inspiration. The Savior responded differently in every situation. SEE Conf. report Nov 2008 "Christian Courage" Elder Hales says One of mortality's great tests comes when our beliefs are questioned or criticized. In such moments we may want to respond aggressively-- To put up our dukes. But these are important opportunities to follow the Savior's example. Remember He was despised and rejected by the world. To respond in a Christlike way , we invite others to feel His love and follow Him as well. ....When we do not retaliate--when we turn the other cheek and resist feelings of anger --we too stand with the Savior. We show forth His love, which is THE ONLY POWER that can subdue the adversary .
As the world is constituted at present, it is impossible to live in it, without being wronged some time. What to do , when wronged, is one of the great problems of a Christian life. Christ bids us remember that our worst enemy is after all, one of God's children whom Christ came to save, and that we ought to treat him as we would an erring brother. Very often Christian love, in return for a wrong, proves the salvation of the wrongdoer. It always has a wonderful effect upon those who practice it . It makes them strong, beautiful and Godlike. From D&C student manual pp. 233. Just Look at the difference of opinion among those that are awake on this forum. Being AWAKE is not the complete answer. Being wise is the proper application of knowing. Waking someone else up is a lot like sharing the gospel, and also a lot like dealing with a difference of opinion with a friend or spouse. I definately do not have the answer. It is much easier said than done. Just passing on some thoughts.Matt. 5:39, 40 " But I say unto you resist not evil" Also see D&C 98: 23-32. If men will smite you, or your families, and ye will bear it patiently, and not seek revenge , ye shall be rewarded. Law of retaliation says, if the wronged party will spare the offender, the reward for his righteousness will surely come. In the end, it isnt enough to be awake, but it is to stay on the straight path and Not being as those in the spacious building , not taking up our swords , and not adopting the practices of the other side, but living and working together in His Love.

[Epistemology]

I few follow-up points here:

1. A lot of individuals may not fall into one of the 4 examples I provided. I used the 4 examples based on some of my friends and family.

2. Some of the pointers I offered were also based on my experience with them.

3. Also, I wrote some of the tips based on how I wanted to be approached and what would have worked had someone approached me differently.

4. I disagree that people will only listen if they want to. I think people will respond positively if you understand what pushes their buttons. This doesn't mean you can reach everyone. All Im saying is that people that don't care or don't believe or don't want to talk can be responsive. I have first hand experience. Drug addicts can only stop if they want to. All we are trying to do is get someone to listen to some opinions and facts. WE do that everyday at work, in school at home and church.

Plant the seed

[Mahonri]

i agree we need to plant seeds no matter what.

another important thing to remember is to make sure everything we teach is truth/fact. Lost credibility is almost impossible to regain.

[tribrac]

I find the biggest obstacle to overcome is the belief that “We’re the good guys”.

A co-worker was hung up on “Saving America” and how “good” the USA is. I tried several attempts with no success. Finally one day I asked him, “What government agency or department would be in charge of building the temples in Jackson County?” Something clicked with him so I ran with it.

I said, “Do you think the President and Senate will be there to announce the Savior and have a press conference? “ When he said he couldn’t imagine that. I asked why not--the most powerful man in the world wouldn’t be there to welcome The King of Kings? Now he was really considering things. I asked him how the president would transfer power to Him. And then suggested that the government was not the savior, nor would it be part of building Zion. Then I concluded with examples of how the government had persecuted the saints or turned their head while others persecuted the saints and suggested that justice still was not fulfilled.

Once a person sees that salvation and safety do not come from belonging to a particular group but only comes from righteous living, the BoM and D&C will show them the way…

[Jason]

I find the biggest obstacle to overcome is the belief that “We’re the good guys”.

A co-worker was hung up on “Saving America” and how “good” the USA is. I tried several attempts with no success. Finally one day I asked him, “What government agency or department would be in charge of building the temples in Jackson County?” Something clicked with him so I ran with it.

I said, “Do you think the President and Senate will be there to announce the Savior and have a press conference? “ When he said he couldn’t imagine that. I asked why not--the most powerful man in the world wouldn’t be there to welcome The King of Kings? Now he was really considering things. I asked him how the president would transfer power to Him. And then suggested that the government was not the savior, nor would it be part of building Zion. Then I concluded with examples of how the government had persecuted the saints or turned their head while others persecuted the saints and suggested that justice still was not fulfilled.

Once a person sees that salvation and safety do not come from belonging to a particular group but only comes from righteous living, the BoM and D&C will show them the way…

Awesome!