Iran: U.S. is world's main sponsor of terrorism

[larsenb]

Well said, LittleLion. Now a few post-midnight responses to Mr. LeeUniv -- as on the morrow I will be traveling home, my daughter just having married in the Wash DC Temple last Saturday.

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Alan Greenspan stated (in a book he authored) that a principle motivation for the US attack on Iraq was control of OIL.
I understand that Afghanistan is located so that transport of fossil fuels from the Caspian Sea region must principally go through Afghanistan, and that since the US occupation of Afghanistan, a pipeline for natural gas has been constructed.... while growing of opium continues there...

YOU are the one who is mistaken here LUniv -- the recently "leaked" records document the fact that the US has killed many, many civilians, including by cruise missiles/drones.
Please note that both sides are killing civilians -- I have previously noted that the two entities vying for power in the world are both wicked; these are (in John the Revelator's terms) the red Beast and the whore Babylon. We find the wicked fighting the wicked, and the good woman (the Church) is admonished to stay away from both of these last-days power-mongers. Moroni says the Lord commands us to awaken to the "secret combination" "among you" and pronounces a "woe" on those "who build it up." Thus, supporting the secret combination that seeks to take away freedoms and dominate the world is a great sin, warned against by Prophets.

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Pres. J. Reuben Clark decried the use of atomic bombs by the US on Japan, and I agree with him.
Iran does not have nuclear weapons, and from the physics involved in enhancing uranium to the high percentages needed for weapons, reports conclude that their ability to make such weapons-grade fuel is still several years off -- I agree with those estimates (as a scientist). We have time for diplomacy, rather than attacking a country that does not have these weapons of mass destruction! (See also 3 Nephi 3 and Alma 44-48 warning AGAINST pre-emptive war; further, the US Constitution permits DEFENSIVE war, only.)

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

I am not a liberal in the sense you are derisively using the label, nor am I "a joke", and certainly not an "anti-mormon"> I object to your use of name-calling and epithets.

I also thought INITIALLY that US tortures in Iraq (and elsewhere) were "one instance of soldiers "embarrassing" prisoners, and a couple other times doing some water boarding on a couple of high value targets a few times in order to get info which they did", but since have learned from soldiers and whistleblowers -- and from Cheney himself -- that torture was approved at high US government levels and has seen widespread use subsequently... This behavior IMO is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and is punishable by law.

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

Leeuniverse, contrary to the rules of civility and the rules of this forum. Pathetic, really. I am a Constitution-supporting conservative, in fact.

I love my country founded by our patriot forefathers inspired by the Lord, but I do NOT love the modern "Gadiantons" among our leaders nor the "whore Babylon" whom I have thoroughly identified in other threads and posts.

I do not identify pre-emptive war with patriotism, and I think it is a great mistake to do so. [/size]

Dr. Jones, very appropriate, measured response to Mr. LeeUniverse, who once again puts on display his propensity to resort to personal attacks, etc.

[Jason]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Is that Kinda like Vietnam and Korea and Somalia, etc. etc.??? What "oil" did those country's have?
What Oil does Afghanistan have??? Are you really so ignorant that you don't understand that Iraq was a "front" against fanatical Islam and Iran? Are you really so ignorant that you think it was about "oil"??? Tell us, what percentage of oil do we actually get from Iraq? We get 10% of it's oil buddy!

Further, you bear more false witness. While in war innocents do die, it IS NOT the U.S. as you say that is killing civilians, it's Fanatical Islam. Get your FACTS strait!

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Are you trying to tell us that when they DO get Nukes that they have no intention of not only "threatening" their use against both Israel and the U.S., but will almost 100% at some point actually use them??? Are you not aware of their constant threats against Israel and even the U.S., their threats that they WILL destroy Israel, wiping them off the map? Are you so ignorant that you are not aware of their intentions to cause Armageddon, overrunning the earth with Islam and bring back their Messiah??? And you want to be all pissy about "us" having nukes??? Are you aware that Hitler was only months away from HIS OWN Nuke?? Do you even care the amount of life that would have been lost on both sides in Japan if Nukes hadn't been used, because they wouldn't have given up?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

You ever heard of bearing false witness??? You are no different than anti-mormons and other liberals, who take a LITTLE Truth and then use it to tell great lies. Since when does one instance of soldiers "embarrassing" prisoners, and a couple other times doing some water boarding on a couple of high value targets a few times in order to get info which they did, which DID in fact save American and other innocent lives, somehow translate into "standard practice" by America, especially when know "actual" harm occurred, they were simply scared briefly??? You are no different than anti-mormons who claim that because Joseph was sealed to other women specifically 3 who were 18 and under that such made him a pedophile and a false prophet, and mormonism nothing but from the Devil. Where did you learn to be a scholar??? You're a joke!

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

And I'm saddened by liberals like you in this country who caused more death in Vietnam during the war rather than winning the war and getting it over with, when we were only months away from their surrender, leaving prematurely and causing over 2 Million death in it's after math. And I'm tired of you liberals doing the same thing today in relation to Iraq, just leaving them to their own devices to the wolves without leaving a support force to help rebuild like was done in Japan, Germany, and South Korea. You people think you love life, but you don't. You willingly allow evil to flourish, and foolishly think leaving it alone will bring peace and joy. Don't you know that if you leave a hornets nest alone, it will grow and take over, and yes, when you try to kill them they DO get mad and try to fight back, but if you persevere, you can kill the nest???

You should be speaking out FOR our country, not misrepresenting the truth by taking some and then LYING about what we are actually doing. You are a traitor and a terrible mormon! For you say and believe the same malarkey that Iran and Fanatical Islam believes about America! SHAME ON YOU!

And shame on the rest of you willingly following this corruption and immorality and lack of character and patriotism.
If we make mistakes then FINE, work to correct them..... But what you people do and believe is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and 100 times over misrepresenting of the ACTUAL facts and truth. That is not HONOR, that is not morality!

This is not the LDS Freedom Forum, it's the LDS nutjob leftist forum with only a dash of conservatism and libertarianism. Just a buch of nutballs, 9/11 was an inside job, America is evil, America Tortures, Bush is Hitler, Code Pinko war haters, etc. etc. Good HEAVENS!!! You people aren't Mormonism.... You are pretenders!

Listen here devilpup....go back and read Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" then come back and talk intelligently!

FYI - you might follow that up with some reading on Operation AJAX!!!

[LittleLion]

go back and read Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" then come back and talk intelligently! FYI - you might follow that up with some reading on Operation AJAX!!!

There are so many excellent sources that prove what Iran said about America is true and is the topic of this thread. Many of these sources are American sources and cannot be refuted. Then there are sources that are not American but still cannot be refuted for painfully obvious reasons. Then there is the most irrefutable source of all, the scriptures.

There are sources that say that America is still a colony of the crown and these sources provide excellent compelling reasons that are all provable. These sources state that the moneyed elite of the past 1000 years have monopolized control of the world as far as the Lord will allow them. They tell of how America was setup to be the money and military power of the world and a base of operations to subdue the world.

Now if my memory is correct, I seem to remember satan himself saying he would buy up the armies of navies of the world to rule with blood and horror on this earth. You cannot buy up the armies and navies of the world without Gold and Silver which America has controlled through the agents of the crown for the past 250 years. Satan is not going to buy up dirt farmers and second or third rate armies and navies, why should he when he can have the best? Second or third rate armies and navies become cannon fodder and a source of convenient and easy enemies/terrorists to fight and to make money for the top dawg.

Does anyone really believe satan would not control the best of the best as far as the Lord will permit him? If satan did not have the best armies and navies it would be easy to control satan now wouldn't it? We all know satan is in charge of this world at this point in time as all the modern day Prophets have said time and time again. So, given these compelling reasons it is easy to say that America is indeed the Worlds main sponsor of terrorism.

[Jason]

go back and read Smedley Butler's "War is a Racket" then come back and talk intelligently! FYI - you might follow that up with some reading on Operation AJAX!!!

There are so many excellent sources that prove what Iran said about America is true and is the topic of this thread. Many of these sources are American sources and cannot be refuted. Then there are sources that are not American but still cannot be refuted for painfully obvious reasons. Then there is the most irrefutable source of all, the scriptures.

There are sources that say that America is still a colony of the crown and these sources provide excellent compelling reasons that are all provable. These sources state that the moneyed elite of the past 1000 years have monopolized control of the world as far as the Lord will allow them. They tell of how America was setup to be the money and military power of the world and a base of operations to subdue the world.

Now if my memory is correct, I seem to remember satan himself saying he would buy up the armies of navies of the world to rule with blood and horror on this earth. You cannot buy up the armies and navies of the world without Gold and Silver which America has controlled through the agents of the crown for the past 250 years. Satan is not going to buy up dirt farmers and second or third rate armies and navies, why should he when he can have the best? Second or third rate armies and navies become cannon fodder and a source of convenient and easy enemies/terrorists to fight and to make money for the top dawg.

Does anyone really believe satan would not control the best of the best as far as the Lord will permit him? If satan did not have the best armies and navies it would be easy to control satan now wouldn't it? We all know satan is in charge of this world at this point in time as all the modern day Prophets have said time and time again. So, given these compelling reasons it is easy to say that America is indeed the Worlds main sponsor of terrorism.

Great summary!!! Based on what I've been able to read....it appeared they were intent on destroying America until after the Civil War at which point they worked towards a controlling interest that solidified during the two world wars and developed into an iron fist thereafter....to the point that now its really out of our hands and will take divine intervention to disrupt!

[Col. Flagg]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Is that Kinda like Vietnam and Korea and Somalia, etc. etc.??? What "oil" did those country's have?
What Oil does Afghanistan have???

Not sure, but it has lots of gas and oil, with pipelines being built through its territory and most importantly, opium, which the CIA funnels to Wall Street and makes a killing off of and has been heavily involved in for a long time. Lee, are you aware that there has been a 1,500% increase in opium production in Afghanistan since 2001?

Are you really so ignorant that you don't understand that Iraq was a "front" against fanatical Islam and Iran?

Iraq was nothing but a perfect little country to overthrow because of its inability to defend itself from a U.S. 'government' and military-industrial complex hell-bent on taking natural resources from resource-rich middle east countries for the enrichment of the defense establishment and also geo-political motives. The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, especially since 9/11 was a self-inflicted wound to justify what they are doing. 9/11 also had to do with covering up massive financial fraud, money-laundering and extortion that was taking place between the U.S. governmental defense establishment, big banks and Wall Street which an investigative arm of the Navy was closing in on.

Are you really so ignorant that you think it was about "oil"??? Tell us, what percentage of oil do we actually get from Iraq? We get 10% of it's oil buddy!

You need to do some homework Lee.

Further, you bear more false witness. While in war innocents do die, it IS NOT the U.S. as you say that is killing civilians, it's Fanatical Islam. Get your FACTS strait!

Really? Has fanatical Islam killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan since 2001 for ulterior motives?

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Are you trying to tell us that when they DO get Nukes that they have no intention of not only "threatening" their use against both Israel and the U.S., but will almost 100% at some point actually use them???

If Iran manages to manufacture a nuclear weapon and actually uses it, do you not think they know Mecca will become a sea of glass soon after if they do?

Are you not aware of their constant threats against Israel and even the U.S., their threats that they WILL destroy Israel, wiping them off the map? Are you so ignorant that you are not aware of their intentions to cause Armageddon, overrunning the earth with Islam and bring back their Messiah???

There is some truth to this aspect of your argument. Ahmadinejad wants to bring back their Messiah and wants to accomplish this by initiating a war in the middle east. Does this mean lobbing a nuke on Israel to start it? Hardly.

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

You should be speaking out FOR our country, not misrepresenting the truth by taking some and then LYING about what we are actually doing. You are a traitor and a terrible mormon! For you say and believe the same malarkey that Iran and Fanatical Islam believes about America! SHAME ON YOU!

And shame on the rest of you willingly following this corruption and immorality and lack of character and patriotism.
If we make mistakes then FINE, work to correct them..... But what you people do and believe is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and 100 times over misrepresenting of the ACTUAL facts and truth. That is not HONOR, that is not morality!

This is not the LDS Freedom Forum, it's the LDS nutjob leftist forum with only a dash of conservatism and libertarianism. Just a buch of nutballs, 9/11 was an inside job, America is evil, America Tortures, Bush is Hitler, Code Pinko war haters, etc. etc. Good HEAVENS!!! You people aren't Mormonism.... You are pretenders!

Sounds like you are having trouble coming to grips with reality Lee?

[Col. Flagg]

Yes, I know exactly "who" I'm talking too, and know everything about him. They guy has not the character to be your all's "god".

We don't consider Steve a 'God'... only a heroic, courageous truth-seeker who weeps for his country over the frauds and ulterior motives that are being used to justify the invasion and occupation of middle east nations. Many of us here in the forum are aware of many of the ugly truths facing us today and if you can't or don't want to learn of them or come to grips with 'em, you're in the wrong forum.

If he's going to post lies and immoral things, I'm going to correct him and condemn him for it.
As to the rules, get over yourselves. I haven't said anything over the line, and am perfectly allowed to have a negative opinion of a PUBLIC figure, which he IS.

If you truly had reviewed many of Dr. Jones’ posts, you would find him a man of character, truth and a patriot who is saddened by the path his country is taking. The truth knows no partisanship or bias.

I don't tolerate bearing false witness from anti-mormons, and I'm certainly not going to tolerate it from a so-called mormon who is no different than Harry Reid in ideology and lack of character. Since I don't see you all saying kind words about Harry Reid, you have no right to condemn me for saying unkind things for the immoral things ex professor Jones states. So, stop with the double standards.

Dr. Jones like Harry Reid?

You should be condemning him for his direct lies and misrepresentations of others, rather than me for calling him on it and condemning him for it. Get your priorities straight!

Wow... I don't know what to say Lee. You certainly need a heavy dose of reality my friend.

[Mosby]

lee- you are not only on the wrong forum, but you are also way out of your league- not to mention your uncalled for and childish attack on Dr.Jones.
Dr.Jones has paid the price to find the truth and taken the time to study and reasearch these matters, his words show this.

Your words show this about your ability to have an intelligent debate: http://www.seanhannity.com

[leeuniverse]

Just really sad..... You know not what you do.

[Col. Flagg]

Just really sad..... You know not what you do.

Me thinks Lee is here to stir the pot.

[LittleLion]

Just really sad..... You know not what you do.

Me thinks Lee is here to stir the pot.

Yeah it's probably Mark just looking for someone else to investigate.